Ford set to announce job cuts

[Cardinal Fang]

The hammer drops again today on another domestic autoamaker. Ford is set to announce some pretty major job cuts to keep itself competitive. Next to GM, Ford has the highest labour costs of any of the other automakers. This coupled with massive over production and luke warm sales even after their employee pricing gimmick of the past summer has put the automaker in a tough position.

I can\'t say I\'m surprised. Lets leave aside the arguement that the foreign cars are better built. I say this because although I do believe it was once true, I\'m not entirely convinced of that today given the J.D. Power rankings. Perception is reality and today people believe that the foreign cars are better built. My point is that with the exception of Chrysler, Ford and GM have completely missed the boat when it comes to design. I go to the auto show every year and time and time again I see how GM and Ford really don\'t have a design sense. They make good trucks but given how fuel prices have risen in the past two years they placed too much of an emphasis on the SUV market. Now, they\'re paying for it. The car designs are stale and lack immagination.

A while ago I read a scathing review of the Ford Mustang by Jeremy Clarkson. Although the review was a little harsh in my opinion it summed up in my mind what is wrong with the domestic car market. Have a read.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,12529-1794313,00.html

[torpedo20]

Dude,
I know where you were going with this and it\'s terrible news for many Ford employees :(
But,
to say that the North American automakers missed the boat because of sh$###ty design?
Nope, they missed it when they continued producing (and still do) those gasoline sucking monsters.
With the oil prices going up, the general population has come to realize that they no longer can afford driving a 6-cylinder sucking beatch.
Japanese and other foreign automakers beat Ford and the like in the small-ish car segment (< 6 cylinder engine)plus there is that \"union problem\" for both GM and Ford.
You knew something had to give when they signed the latest deal with their unions.

And to use a british\' guy opinion about north american cars? Please.
We all know what Europeans think about the American cars - hell, we all know what North America thinks of French cars! :D
BTW,
wasn\'t that the same Ford Mustang which won the \"CaNaDiAn Car of the Year\" award? ;)

[Whos ur dadd]

Ford SUCKS.

[Cardinal Fang]

Originally posted by torpedo20


Dude,
I know where you were going with this and it\'s terrible news for many Ford employees :(

Agreed, my cousin works at the plant in Oakville.



But,
to say that the North American automakers missed the boat because of sh$###ty design?

Careful now. I said that they missed the boat because of their design philosophy, which places a greater emphasis on muscle rather than precision. The fact that they choose to go pursue the design of cars and trucks that were so intimately tied with low fuel costs shows a lack of imagination and poor design philosophy. The rest of the world was already there but as long as they were making money the kept pumping out the gas guzzlers.



And to use a british\' guy opinion about north american cars? Please.
We all know what Europeans think about the American cars - hell, we all know what North America thinks of French cars! :D

French cars have 4 gears to go forward and 7 to go in reverse (WWII joke)

I\'ve heard the same opinion from North American reviewers about the domestic sports cars so this opinion from a European comes as no surprise to me. Please note that I did state for the record that I thought the opinion WAS HARSH.

Just a note when it comes to reviews that people should keep in mind. When I read reviews and or the news I like to gather a wide range opinions. People today read the news and/or opinions just to reinforce their preconceived notion rather than to actually learn about something. That\'s where we as a society have lost our way. I prefer to read opposing views on many issues because it gives me a different perspective. A perspective that maybe I\'m too blind to see. That in the end makes me and everyone else a more informed individual if it challenges your view on a subject.



BTW,
wasn\'t that the same Ford Mustang which won the \"CaNaDiAn Car of the Year\" award? ;)


Absolutely! And kudos to them for it. But that didn\'t help the company given the economic environment they find themselves in today now does it? For Ford and GM to bounce back they need to find a more solid design philosophy that can respond to changing economic pressures.

They\'ve been propped up to this day with low fuel costs and a market of buyers prepared to shell out money like it was going out of style. Unless humans are pressed we are very stubborn to learn the lesson. We complain we have high fuel costs but are lucky compared to the rest of the world. Now the words \"fuel economy\" actually means something but it didn\'t to Ford and GM and possibly Chrysler.

I hope this helps GM and Ford turn around. I really do because a competitive market can only benefit the buyers of future cars.

[torpedo20]

You points are well taken - we don\'t really have a disagreement there :)

Right now,
being a Ford employee suxx no question about that.

One more thing I wanted to share with you:
I prefer when the cold facts are given so I can form my own opinion based of them.
Now,
don\'t get me wrong here - I do value the opinions of others but they have to earn my trust first.
You see I never heard of that Jeremy Clarkson guy before - that\'s fine and the fact that he hated Mustang is fine, too. But when his article ends like this and I quote:
\"The Mustang, then, is a great car in America. But here you’re better off with a Golf.\"
You can not compare those two!... He lost me right there.
...

No, Mustang cannot save Ford - it\'s a car for a small segment of the market.
I\'d rather drive Mazda every day than any Ford car and that is that :D

[Cardinal Fang]

Originally posted by torpedo20

\"The Mustang, then, is a great car in America. But here you’re better off with a Golf.\"
You can not compare those two!... He lost me right there.



I thought as much as well but you have to consider what he\'s saying when he refers to \"here.\" On European roads you need a very nibble and quick car that has the suspension to twist and turn. A Mustang is not a car for the European roads because it\'s design is based on getting power down while in a straight line.

:D

P.S.

Marlies rule.

[Whos ur dadd]

Originally posted by torpedo20

I\'d rather drive Mazda every day than any Ford car and that is that :D


Not if that Ford car was a GT! I\'d temporarily suspend my intense hatred for Ford while driving that beauty.

[Cardinal Fang]

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/img/006778ford_gt.jpg

[Cardinal Fang]

*Looks up*

This \"Moment of majic\" brought to you by Cardinal Fang.

[majic]

http://www.uploadyourimages.com/img/006778ford_gt.jpg

and if that gets killed use this

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9371/006778fordgt5ka.jpg

[Whos ur dadd]

Originally posted by majic


http://www.uploadyourimages.com/img/006778ford_gt.jpg

and if that gets killed use this

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9371/006778fordgt5ka.jpg

Not a fan of those stripes, but otherwise a stunning design.

[Caz]

Blame the union\'s.
Do you need to make $50/hr with full benefits working on an assembly line?
I know people that work/worked for GM and hear the stories of people sleeping on their shift and being caught and the union protects them. 40+ sick days a year and the union protects them.

[Cardinal Fang]

Unions by their very nature must pander to the lowest common denominator.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

one of the things that is a result of the unions is that the highest paid guy in the plant is the one driving the cars from the end of the assembly line to the parking lot. he\'s the one with the most seniority.

a lot of foreign cars that are sold in North America are built in NA. The Camry, Corolla, Accord, Civic, Lexus RX330, Odyssey, MDX, Pilot, Altima, Maxima (although the 6th gen quality really went down when it moved from production in Japan), etc...just to name a few. Each of Toyota, Honda and Nissan are experiencing growth in sales and profits.

things that make you go hmmmmm: the fact that the CAW/UAW do not build any of the \"foreign\" cars.

other interesting tidbit: the Japanese cars were absolute POS back in the 70s (can anyone recall when hondas were considered rust buckets)...but they sold well because of the OPEC oil embargo of the 70s. They got initial market share because of their fuel economy, and then they continued to gain market share because of their reputation for improvement in quality. Sounds like the same strategy today.

[Broli]

Originally posted by Cardinal Fang


Unions by their very nature must pander to the lowest common denominator.

Hey!!!
I\'m In a union!!

lol

but yeah its true, some people at my work were caught punching eachother in and out, and working for each other, so it looked like they were both there, they were taking turns getting days off!

well they got caught!
and they were fired, but they grieved and they got their jobs back!
and compensation for the time off!

that was messed up!

[chinsterr]

Gotta love the ins and outs of a union

lol, on my coop job i saw all of this and MORE... people would fall asleep on the job and not get in any trouble.

you have to know how to work the system. But this is why NA\'s economy is in the shitter and why China\'s is going UP UP UP. There is no such thing as a union in china. Since when should a company give a shit about you? they pay you ... you shouldnt be able to complain about the work they PAY you to DO. In china its simple, you dont do the work you get fired. Unions just mess everything up ... plain and simple ... keep this shit up and everything will be outsourced to china where people are willing to do anything for money.

I did an internship at the the airport and many of the workers there are unionized, but i worked in administration. I would often need to go out on the field to inspect stuff ... man, you should hear the lip i got from some of the construction workers. Ok, so taking orders from a 19 yr old must be shitty but thats why im busting my @$$ off in univ. I would tell them to record some readings and they would just never do it ... then mumble something about union crap. People were getting paid to sit and smoke outside ><, while i did my own job and part of theres >< !!!! I just hate to see company\'s money go down the drain ... ie. ford.gm.chrylser. FRIG just get everything from china, thier stuff is low budget and the quality has gone a long way.

my 2cents*

Chinsterr

[Cardinal Fang]

WARNING: THIS POST IS NOT FUNNY

I don\'t want to make this thread into a Union bashing exercise or making fun of Broli because he works at the Post Office but it must be said that at one time Unions did serve a purpose. That purpose may still be around today in developing countries.

Unions have their roots in helping workers during the industrial revolutions. By protecting workers from very dangerous working conditions established by the heads of industry. A standard was cast by which people were required to work to. This includes the right of an employer not to exploit it’s labour force. Child labour laws, which we can all agree is important, were being fought for by Labour unions long before it became fashionable. The point I\'m trying to make is that before Labour Unions of the early 1900\'s people were not being paid a fair wage for the hours they worked. Just having a job does not entitle the employer to exploit you.

Many of the developing countries right now are ripe for investment because of their low labour costs. Someone mentioned China already and I agree with that. But the influential industry in China is profiting from abusive labour practices. The average wage in China for a skilled factory worker is $3000 per year. Granted their standard of living is low but by all expert accounts this wage is too low for the production they are expected to put out. As further economic reform comes to China the unions will organize and eventually obtain the rights the workers deserve and sooner or later China\'s labour cost will be has it is in the rest of the world. Don’t hold your breath by all accounts it would take 50 years min. Industry and investment will have to look elsewhere for cheaper labour costs. This is a cycle that repeats itself over and over again.

My point is that capitalism will always exploit workers for a profit. The unions serve a role to level the playing field to help the workers. The problem becomes when the playing field is leveled and the unions just strive to take advantage of the situation. It\'s at this point that they make themselves obsolete.

[torpedo20]

Originally posted by Cardinal Fang


The unions serve a role to level the playing field to help the workers. The problem becomes when the playing field is leveled and the unions just strive to take advantage of the situation. It\'s at this point that they make themselves obsolete.


Sorry,
if I took your quote of the context but the best example of that would be

NHLPA <--- buncha of rich and spoiled players. TO be totally fair, their owners are buncha dummies of greedy bastards, too :D
What the players\' union did to the new guys like Sid \"The Kid\" Crosby and Ovechkin coming into league is despicable. They basically sacrificed those youngsters for their own good – just look what Darien Hatcher made this summer ;)
It\'s no wonder that most of the second tier players in NHL jumped the ship and departed for Europe.