Hi All!

[Wild Weasel]

Just figured I'd introduce myself.

I've been in the j-body scene for years now but I'm in the market for a new car, almost certainly a Mazda, and probably a 3 so I figured I'd sign up here and see what the word on the street is.

Just reading some other threads with the same questions I've got so I don't really have much to say here other than Hi.* :)

You can check out my Sunfire here:* http://www.wildweasel.ca/car_pics.html
Problem (perhaps salvation?) with the new car is that I'm buying it with my wife and won't be modding it.* I can't part with my Sunfire and don't want to end up just building and collecting worthless cars.* :D

So hi everyone.* Hopefully I'll be somewhat useful around here.* :D

[majic]

welcome!!

as for the mods.. just say that 'the dealer forgot to add this to our car.. and this.. and that' ;D

[b]

Welcome, anything you need... just ask. Enjoy your stay.

[Wild Weasel]

welcome!!

as for the mods.. just say that 'the dealer forgot to add this to our car.. and this.. and that' ;D


heh. Stuff like that, I may very well end up doing. I'll have to come up with some good arguments for "accessorizing" as opposed to modding. :D

Whatever I get, I definitely want to put in the HomeLink mirror and don't want to pay the dealer price for them. I've seen that you can get the Mazda parts on eBay for way cheaper than to have the dealer put them in. I figure that's the better way to go for all the dealer-installed accessories.

If I get the 3 wagon, I'll also want the roof rack and won't want to pay dealer prices for it.

[Cardinal Fang]

Welcome Wild Weasel!

[majic]

Whatever I get, I definitely want to put in the HomeLink mirror and don't want to pay the dealer price for them. I've seen that you can get the Mazda parts on eBay for way cheaper than to have the dealer put them in. I figure that's the better way to go for all the dealer-installed accessories.


PM flipspeed and see what prices he can get you on genuine mazda parts.. all local (yonge and steeles dealership)




If I get the 3 wagon, I'll also want the roof rack and won't want to pay dealer prices for it.



:o :o :o

don't make me ban you.. it's a hatch 8)
talk to redraptor about a roof rack.. he's had 1 or 2 and he can shed some light on those..

[Cardinal Fang]

Seriously, he calls our cars a "wagon" one more time I'm going to change his avatar.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

welcome!!

as for the mods.. just say that 'the dealer forgot to add this to our car.. and this.. and that' ;D


I have never forgotten to add something to a car.. come on..

[majic]

welcome!!

as for the mods.. just say that 'the dealer forgot to add this to our car.. and this.. and that' ;D


I have never forgotten to add something to a car.. come on..




hmm come to think of it.. why didn't my car come with RX8 rims :D


ps. u know i was just making sure he gets the mods by his wife unnoticed ;)

[wtom]

I have never forgotten to add something to a car.. come on..



I wish you forgot about the fuel tax, air tax, etc. ;D

[majic]

I have never forgotten to add something to a car.. come on..



I wish you forgot about the fuel tax, air tax, etc. ;D


actually .. it's in the HTA, so mister premier would be on his ass if he forgot that ;)

[iconicrocket]

Hello and welcome.

[Skarbro]

Hmmm... do I know you? Heh...

Call it a wagon one more time. I dare you.

[Chuckie]

Hmmm... do I know you?* Heh...

Call it a wagon one more time.* I dare you.


Hatch/Sport... not Wagon.

lol the sedan owners are just hanging out chilling.. while we are outraged!

-Chuckie
Welcome to the club btw. I hope you find information useful to you here. make some friends. and enjoy owning a mazda3 (in the future)

[Wild Weasel]

Wow. Are you guys bitches of Mazda's marketing dept. or what? :D

Just because they insist on calling it a hatch, doesn't mean it's not a wagon. I understand they have a mandate to give the car a younger, hipper image so they can sell it to those of us who want a wagon but don't want people to notice, but really... there's nothing wrong with a cool wagon.

There's plenty of them out there. I think that the WRX and the Mazda3 are the cream of the crop when it comes to sport wagons and there's nothing to be ashamed of.

Note that all the following respected sites refer to it as a wagon. Don't be slaves to marketing!

http://www.automotive.com/features/auto-shows/59/2005/laas/2005-Mazda-3-wagon-front.html

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=101737

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/11724/2007-mazdaspeed-3.html

[majic]

Wow. Are you guys bitches of Mazda's marketing dept. or what? :D

Just because they insist on calling it a hatch, doesn't mean it's not a wagon. I understand they have a mandate to give the car a younger, hipper image so they can sell it to those of us who want a wagon but don't want people to notice, but really... there's nothing wrong with a cool wagon.

There's plenty of them out there. I think that the WRX and the Mazda3 are the cream of the crop when it comes to sport wagons and there's nothing to be ashamed of.

Note that all the following respected sites refer to it as a wagon. Don't be slaves to marketing!

http://www.automotive.com/features/auto-shows/59/2005/laas/2005-Mazda-3-wagon-front.html

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=101737

http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/11724/2007-mazdaspeed-3.html


that does it.. a 3 day ban for you mr.! ;D :-*

[Cardinal Fang]

majic, might I suggest that a judicious use of the board filter software is in order?

[Wild Weasel]

that does it.. a 3 day ban for you mr.! ;D* :-*


Doh!! :D

[Skarbro]

It's a hatchback. Period.

A wagon would be an extended version of the sedan. The Mazda 3 hatchback is SHORTER in length than the sedan.

It has a hatch on the back.

What would you call the Ford Focus ZX5? A wagon? What then is the Ford Focus wagon called? A super-wagon?

::)

[Cardinal Fang]

Interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_wagon

"Most station wagons are modified sedan-type car bodies, having the main interior area extended to the near-vertical rear window over what would otherwise be the enclosed area of the sedan version. A hatchback car, although meeting a similar description, would not enjoy the full height of the passenger cabin all the way to the back; the rear glass of a hatchback being sloped further from vertical, and the hatch tending not to reach fully to the rear bumper, as it commonly would in a station wagon. Station wagons also have side windows over the cargo area, whereas some hatchbacks have thick "C" pillars and no cargo area windows. Two exceptions to this rule include Rambler station wagons (1952–1962) on which the roof line subtly dipped down over the cargo area, and GM's Oldsmobile Vista Cruiser (1964–1972) and Buick Sportwagon (1964–1970) on which the rear roof section was slightly elevated and combined with four skylights; the "sportwagon" name has been popularised again in recent years by some manufacturers."

So therefore this is a Mazda6 Wagon:
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/2027/mazda6wagon1ud5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


And this is the Mazda6 Hatch:
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/7845/mazda6hatchback4rz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Skarbro]

Also interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatchback


Hatchback is term describing an automobile design, consisting of a passenger cabin with an integrated cargo space, accessed from behind the vehicle by a tailgate or flip-up window. The vehicle must have at least two rows of seats, with the rear set able to fold down to increase cargo space. Hatchback vehicles are functionally similar to station wagons (which are intended to carry large volumes), but distinguished by a smaller load area. Some vehicles acheive this by having little car length behind the C-Pillar and thus no room for a side window over the load area. Others acheive this by a steeply raked rear window - a style also known as a liftback. All liftbacks are hatchbacks with a fastback profile.

The tailgate is also referred to as a hatch. Hatchbacks are often described as three-door (two entry doors and the hatch) or five-door (four entry doors and the hatch) cars. In Europe, city cars, superminis, and small family cars are usually hatchbacks.

Small cars often incorporate a hatch tailgate to make the best use of available space. Especially in smaller models, hatchbacks are often truncated, with the tailgate nearly vertical, to reduce the car's footprint. This is an important consideration in countries where small streets and traffic congestion are factors. Hatchbacks frequently include fold-down rear seats, which enable a substantial portion of the interior space to be used as a cargo area. Usually, the rear seat can be folded partially (for instance 1/2, 1/3 or 2/3) or completely to expand the cargo space.

Hatchbacks typically have a parcel shelf: a rigid shelf covering the cargo space that is hinged behind the rear seats and lifts with the tailgate. An alternative is a flexible roll-up tonneau cover.

High performance variants of hatchbacks are now common, known as "hot hatches".

[Cardinal Fang]

Easy Skarbro, I'm not troubled by the definition of either version. I like my hatchback/wagon/liftback all the same. What anyone calls it means very little to me.

[Wild Weasel]

The length of the car is not the defining factor in a wagon.

Essentially, the Mazda3 Sport fits both definitions depending on the interpretation. If not for the Mazda Marketing Dept. though, anyone who looked at the car would classify it as a wagon. It looks like a wagon and has the window over the cargo area, as a wagon generally does.

The argument is moot. Most wagons are hatchbacks by virtue of having the hatch on the back. That doesn't mean they're not wagons.

It's like DCX calling that new CLS class a coupe based on some hairbrained definition about interior volume or something. If you didn't have marketers sounding the trumpets, you'd look at it and know it's a hot looking sedan.

Again... don't let the marketers confuse things. Think for yourselves! :D

[MAZDA Kitten]

Do we still have that thread from the old message board........ you guys know what I'm talking about ;) hurrrrrrrrhurrrrr

[Skarbro]

Easy Skarbro, I'm not troubled by the definition of either version. I like my hatchback/wagon/liftback all the same. What anyone calls it means very little to me.


LOL Weasel and I go waaaaaaaay back. We've had this discussion before. It's fun to bring it to the Mazda 3 board though. ;) In the end, I'm pretty adament that its a hatchback. It's crystal clear to me. If it was a wagon, then it would have an extended cargo area like the Mazda 6 wagon. But it clearly doesn't.

[Skarbro]

The length of the car is not the defining factor in a wagon.


This has nothing to do with marketing.* Whether or not it has an extended cargo area defines if is a wagon or a hatchback.* It does not have an extended cargo area - it has a shortened cargo area.* Therefore its a hatchback and not a wagon.

Here's a Ford Focus Zx5 hatchback:

http://images.forbes.com/images/2001/12/10/fordfocuszx5_415x306.jpg

And here's a Ford Focus wagon:

http://www.easterbussales.com/Ford%20Focus%20Wagon.JPG

Notice that what makes these different are the lenths of the cargo area.

[Wild Weasel]

The length of the car is not the defining factor in a wagon.


This has nothing to do with marketing.* Whether or not it has an extended cargo area defines if is a wagon or a hatchback.* It does not have an extended cargo area - it has a shortened cargo area.* Therefore its a hatchback and not a wagon.


No it doesn't. You only just recently zeroed in on that aspect of the definition after we focused on the Focus ZX5/Wagon paradox for some further clarification.

I can just as easily declare the window over the cargo area to be the end-all defining feature of a wagon, which eliminates the length as a factor completely.

In the end, in the absense of a clear-cut definition one way or the other, I think it comes down ultimately to what the bloody thing looks like. Forgetting that you own one and don't want it to be a wagon, if you just saw it on the street having never seen one or heard anything of it before, you'd look at it and call it a sport wagon.

So that's what it is.

[majic]

majic, might I suggest that a judicious use of the board filter software is in order?


done ;)

and wild weasel's username should be wicked weasel ;D

[Skarbro]

It doesn't look like a wagon. It looks like a hatchback. Which does it look more like? The ZX5 hatchback or the Focus wagon? Or are you saying that there are 2 Ford Focus wagons? ::)

[Cardinal Fang]

I do agree that most hatchbacks are station w.agons by definition and vice versa. But I always believed that the true distinction apart from overall body size, at one time was that station w.agons NEVER had folding rear seats. Hatch backs needed folding rear seats to take advantage of the storage space. This is why hatchbacks were small and compact and hatchs were large.

The problem you have now is that there are many new station w.agons that have folding rear seats because their overall length has been shortened. Along with that, many of the hatchback gimmicks are being used by station hatchs now so the water is more muddied than ever. The point being is that I believe the modern day the station w.agon has moved further to become a hatch back while the hatch back styling has stayed true.

So when are the sedans going to evolve into something nice? :D

[Skarbro]

majic, might I suggest that a judicious use of the board filter software is in order?


done ;)

and wild weasel's username should be wicked weasel ;D


LOL! Evil form of censorship.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

Hatch/Wagon...


MuHAhA....

Glad I got a Sedan.

[Wild Weasel]

majic, might I suggest that a judicious use of the board filter software is in order?


done ;)

and wild weasel's username should be wicked weasel ;D


LOL!* Evil form of censorship.


heh. Now this entire discussion has become completely incomprehensible. ;D

Now then... Hi everyone! :D

[Broli]

all the people with the 5-doors can be happy with the fact that it is not a sedan!

now . . welcome wild weasel

and you are all dipshits for such a long discussion on this . . . lol

[Skarbro]

No worries Weas. Your Sunfire can smoke most, if not all the hatchbacks on this board. At least you have that. ;D

(Before anyone jumps in and argues that - let me qualify it by saying I know every mod he's done to that car and it's true!)

[Wild Weasel]

If I get the 3... I wonder if my wife would let me spend the nearly $300 it would take to get plates saying "M Z 3 W A G O N" ;D

[majic]

majic, might I suggest that a judicious use of the board filter software is in order?


done ;)

and wild weasel's username should be wicked weasel ;D


LOL! Evil form of censorship.


heh. Now this entire discussion has become completely incomprehensible. ;D

Now then... Hi everyone! :D



ahhhh.. much better :D

[Jeff-TheBiz]

If I get the 3... I wonder if my wife would let me spend the nearly $300 it would take to get plates saying "M Z 3 W A G O N" ;D




If you agree to putting t on the car, I am sure we could raise the $300.

[Wild Weasel]

No worries Weas. Your Sunfire can smoke most, if not all the hatchbacks on this board. At least you have that. ;D

(Before anyone jumps in and argues that - let me qualify it by saying I know every mod he's done to that car and it's true!)


14.887 @ 93.25 mph if anyone cares. And thanks for the props! ;D





If I get the 3...* I wonder if my wife would let me spend the nearly $300 it would take to get plates saying "M Z 3 W A G O N"* ;D




If you agree to putting t on the car, I am sure we could raise the $300.


heh. Might just take you up on that. :D

[Skarbro]

No worries Weas.* Your Sunfire can smoke most, if not all the hatchbacks on this board.* At least you have that.* *;D

(Before anyone jumps in and argues that - let me qualify it by saying I know every mod he's done to that car and it's true!)


14.887 @ 93.25 mph if anyone cares.* And thanks for the props!* ;D


Actually - I didn't count the Mazdaspeed 3 that's on this board. There's a hatchback I don't think you could beat. ;)

[Wild Weasel]

No worries Weas.* Your Sunfire can smoke most, if not all the hatchbacks on this board.* At least you have that.* *;D

(Before anyone jumps in and argues that - let me qualify it by saying I know every mod he's done to that car and it's true!)


14.887 @ 93.25 mph if anyone cares.* And thanks for the props!* ;D


Actually - I didn't count the Mazdaspeed 3 that's on this board.* There's a hatchback I don't think you could beat.* *;)


heh. Yeah, I think I'd need proper wheels and tires and another 30 or 40 hp for that. ;D

[bubba1983]

i got bored reading this half way into the first page
to settle* your arguments, its a damn station hatch people!!

EDIT: woah what was i smoking, imeant stationwagon!

[Jeff-TheBiz]

i got bored reading this half way into the first page
to settle your arguments, its a damn station wagon people!!


ummm....



Yeah...


* Drops picket sign and runs..

[bubba1983]

oh and welcomce!



thats one quick sundeath you had on your hands!

[Flagrum_3]

I do agree that most hatchbacks are station w.agons by definition and vice versa. But I always believed that the true distinction apart from overall body size,* at one time was that station w.agons NEVER had folding rear seats. Hatch backs needed folding rear seats to take advantage of the storage space. This is why hatchbacks were small and compact and hatchs were large.

The problem you have now is that there are many new station w.agons that have folding rear seats because their overall length has been shortened. Along with that, many of the hatchback gimmicks are being used by station hatchs now so the water is more muddied than ever. The point being is that I believe the modern day the station w.agon has moved further to become a hatch back while the hatch back styling has stayed true.

So when are the sedans going to evolve into something nice? :D


Cardi I think it you hit it right on the head, its a stationWagon Hatch thingy ;D

Oh and welcome W Weasel.


_3



.

[Chuckie]

If I get the 3...* I wonder if my wife would let me spend the nearly $300 it would take to get plates saying "M Z 3 W A G O N"* ;D




If you agree to putting t on the car, I am sure we could raise the $300.


hopefully blunty can put a stop to that if that should occur.. =)