Cleanest/Best Gas [Archive]

XizorGetspeed

07-19-2007, 12:37 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm trying to find some evidence for my coworkers as to which Gas Company is the cleanest and most efficient for your car.

I know from references from many people that Sunoco is the way to go. But I'm trying to find hard evidence. Reviews and such on websites etc...

Can anyone help? I tried googling but I can't seem to find any relevant links.

midnightfxgt

07-19-2007, 12:59 PM

Sunoco has the highest octane available out of them. Not sure about studies on the "best" brand

Wild Weasel

07-19-2007, 01:50 PM

I had issues a few years back with Petro Canada gas. Haven't used them since. I pretty much go exclusively to Esso and haven't had any issues at all with them.

Not sure how valuable any of that is... but there it is. :)

Cardinal Fang

07-19-2007, 02:08 PM

The problem with the internet is the you can find almost anything to rationalize any position and then claim it as a valuable source. I found this while surfing for porn.

http://www.toptiergas.com/

"
TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline Retailers
Gasoline retailers must meet the high TOP TIER standards with all grades of gasoline to be approved by the automakers as providing TOP TIER Detergent Gasoline.
In addition, all gasoline outlets carrying the brand of the approved retailer must meet the TOP TIER standards.
Additional gasoline retailers are added to the TOP TIER list as they meet the standards. The retailers known to be on the TOP TIER list are shown below.
TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:
QuikTrip
Chevron
Conoco
Phillips
76
Shell
Entec Stations
MFA Oil Company
Kwik Trip/Kwik Star
The Somerset Refinery, Inc.
Chevron-Canada
Aloha Petroleum
Tri-Par Oil Company
Shell-Canada
Texaco
Petro-Canada
Sunoco-Canada"

I make no claim as to the validity of this information.

WLS ZMZM

07-19-2007, 02:30 PM

do I even dare ask how you came across that while searching for Porn??
Keeping on the topic.... I've had some issues with Petro Canada as well, Usually go to either Sunoco or Shell... but if I go to esso its like I get to watch TV while pumping gas... "vary niiiiiice"

Unoriginalusername

07-19-2007, 02:55 PM

running the right gas for your car will aslo help... for my speed, it's had all of its 8000km on ultra 94

Cardinal Fang

07-19-2007, 02:55 PM

do I even dare ask how you came across that while searching for Porn??

We all have our fetishes dude... :chuckle

Keeping on the topic.... I've had some issues with Petro Canada as well, Usually go to either Sunoco or Shell... but if I go to esso its like I get to watch TV while pumping gas... "vary niiiiiice"

Interesting. My wife has issues with the Premium Fuel at Esso. She gets better mileage with either Petro Canada or Sunoco. I use strictly Petro Canada for two reasons:

1) I really haven't had any problems with it in my last two cars
2) The office pays for my gas and they have an account with PetroCan

sp3GT

07-19-2007, 02:57 PM

Whats wrong with Petro? Thats the only gas I get cause I get 2 cents off. I personally like shell better though.

Unoriginalusername

07-19-2007, 03:00 PM

Least favorite to favorite:
Esso/Pioneer
Petro
Shell
Sunocco

ptwonline

07-19-2007, 03:10 PM

Does anyone know how ethanol blending affects performance/gas mileage?

I know that ethanol burns at a higher temperature, but I've also heard that it produces less energy than the same volume of gasoline. If that is true, then if you went to, say, Sunoco and bought gas with a 15% blend of Ethanol, then your gas mileage would be lower.

Cardinal Fang

07-19-2007, 03:22 PM

Does anyone know how ethanol blending affects performance/gas mileage?

Research done in Australia:

http://www.raa.net/page.asp?TerID=146

" Ethanol has a lower energy content than petrol, the 1998 Australian field trial by Apace Research observed a fuel consumption increase of up to 2.8% with E10.
Because of this higher fuel consumption there are fewer kilometres per tank of fuel, so ethanol blended fuels will cost motorists more.
The excise on ethanol is the same as that on petrol, however producers are able to claim back the tax paid on the additive. Therefore, consumers pay the tax at the pump, the government gives it back to ethanol producers and consumers are subsidising the industry to the tune of 3.8cpl for each litre of 10% ethanol blended fuel. "

Unoriginalusername

07-19-2007, 03:27 PM

http://www.jeffssite.net/images/fire%20fart.gif

MajesticBlueNTO

07-19-2007, 03:59 PM

Least favorite to favorite:
Esso/Pioneer
Petro
Shell
Sunocco

how ironic that Pioneer is your least favourite and sunoco is your favourite considering that they both come from the SAME refinery. (Pioneer is owned by Suncor).

Unoriginalusername

07-19-2007, 04:09 PM

how ironic that Pioneer is your least favourite and sunoco is your favourite considering that they both come from the SAME refinery. (Pioneer is owned by Suncor).

http://www.pioneer.ca/about-history.asp

they just have an alliance... the location near me is a dump which more around why i put it in the esso category.

MajesticBlueNTO

07-19-2007, 04:24 PM

http://www.pioneer.ca/about-history.asp

they just have an alliance... the location near me is a dump which more around why i put it in the esso category.

did you read what the alliance is?

Sunoco - This assures Pioneer a consistent supply of the higher quality fuels.

Sunoco/Suncor is the supplier of the fuel to Pioneer.

Unoriginalusername

07-19-2007, 04:45 PM

did you read what the alliance is?

Sunoco/Suncor is the supplier of the fuel to Pioneer.

You said they were "owned" and they aren't... i was merely pointing out that it is actually an alliance

Caz

07-19-2007, 06:03 PM

Too bad majic isn't here, he would have majoogled some site and wrote up a nice little report for us and locked the thread in less than 5 min.

MajesticBlueNTO

07-19-2007, 06:07 PM

You said they were "owned" and they aren't... i was merely pointing out that it is actually an alliance

ahh...point taken.

considering the thread is about 'cleanest/best gas', to rate pioneer at the bottom (because the station by you looks like a dump) and rate sunoco at the top is misleading and, again, ironic, since pioneer is supplied gas by sunoco.

mit-gee-mui

07-19-2007, 07:58 PM

Old links::)

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=9736&highlight=gas+station

Some info here too
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=12311&highlight=gas+station

ptwonline

07-19-2007, 09:23 PM

Research done in Australia:

http://www.raa.net/page.asp?TerID=146

" Ethanol has a lower energy content than petrol, the 1998 Australian field trial by Apace Research observed a fuel consumption increase of up to 2.8% with E10.
Because of this higher fuel consumption there are fewer kilometres per tank of fuel, so ethanol blended fuels will cost motorists more.
The excise on ethanol is the same as that on petrol, however producers are able to claim back the tax paid on the additive. Therefore, consumers pay the tax at the pump, the government gives it back to ethanol producers and consumers are subsidising the industry to the tune of 3.8cpl for each litre of 10% ethanol blended fuel. "

Ah, thanks for that.

Guess I will be avoiding ethanol. I think it is a poor solution anyway. It's not really to help the environment (since it takes so much energy to produce) but about energy independence for countries without enough oil of their own, as well as subsidizing their agricultural industries.

starwind

07-19-2007, 11:37 PM

FWIW, from a July 2006 press release (http://www.suncor.com/links_popup.aspx?ID=2721) on Suncor's website (bold is mine):

"Suncor Energy Products Inc. is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Suncor Energy Inc., an integrated energy company. In addition to a refinery in Sarnia, Suncor Energy Products has a network of more than 300 Sunoco-branded retail and Fleet Fuel cardlock sites and has a 50 per cent joint venture interest in more than 200 Pioneer and UPI retail sites. Suncor Energy Products Inc. manufactures, distributes and markets transportation fuels, heating oils and petrochemicals primarily in Ontario. Sunoco in Canada is separate and unrelated to Sunoco in the United States, which is owned by Sunoco, Inc. of Philadelphia."

starwind

07-20-2007, 12:02 AM

For those who may be interested:

A May, 2006 Business Week article on Ethanol: "Ethanol: Myths and Realities: Ten questions -- and answers -- about the fuel that's supposed to save the economy" (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2006/tc20060519_225336.htm).

And a summary of the ethanol energy efficiency debate from the Wall Street Journal in June 2006, "Digging Into the Ethanol Debate (http://online.wsj.com/public/article_print/SB114970102238673892.html)". The WSJ article is nice because it cites and links references.

NRCan's ethanol website is here (http://www.oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/fuels/ethanol/ethanol.cfm).

CBC's In Depth: Energy: Ethanol pages are here (http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/energy/ethanol.html).

A recent CBC article, from march 2007 is "Ethanol-blend auto emissions no greener than gasoline: study (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2007/03/30/ethanol-emissions.html)", which discusses "An unpublished federal report appears to undermine the belief that commercially available ethanol-blended fuel produces cleaner emissions than regular gasoline."

And, finally, from the pro-Ethanol people at the American Coalition for Ethanol, "All About Ethanol: Ethanol & Your Vehicle (http://www.ethanol.org/index.php?id=50&parentid=8)" and a PDF, "Why is ethanol good for your car (http://www.ethanol.org/pdf/contentmgmt/ethanol_good_for_your_car.pdf)".

And a Google search for 'against ethanol' turns up a slew of hits...

dentinger

07-20-2007, 01:01 AM

i ALWAYS go to the esso near my house..
its a fairly new station, and like WLS ZMZM said, tv's at the pump!! BOOYA!!
and its more than just a gas station too... its a conveniance store, bathrooms, AND a tim hortans!!! woooohooo!!!

altho they do constantly run out of gas tho....

starwind

07-20-2007, 01:40 AM

I almost exclusively buy my gas at Esso. Partly because I like the Speedpass, but mostly because their gas and my car (current: Saturn SL2) seem to get along together. Plus, the newer stations are clean, well lit, and, around here, plentiful. And Timmy's !

On the rare occasion I use Petro Canada gas, the car seems to behave weirdly, and it gets much worse mpg than with Esso gas.

To be honest, I only use Shell and Sunoco when there isn't another option, but really couldn't tell you why. I am hesitant to jump on the ethanol bandwagon, for one, I guess.

I don't use any small independents unless the car is running on proverbial fumes and there is nowhere else to go at all...

///M

07-20-2007, 04:40 AM

My cars drink Shell exclusively, mainly due to EasyPay and the abundance of Shell stations in my area.

Fuman

07-20-2007, 09:11 AM

petro can.. i save 2 cents a liter

Unoriginalusername

07-20-2007, 09:48 AM

ahh...point taken.

considering the thread is about 'cleanest/best gas', to rate pioneer at the bottom (because the station by you looks like a dump) and rate sunoco at the top is misleading and, again, ironic, since pioneer is supplied gas by sunoco.

since we have no test equipment to actually validate any of our assumptions a favourite list can be influenced by not oly the quality of the gas but the buying experience as well but i agree the gas it self would rank higher than esso/petro

Tokic_o

07-24-2007, 10:41 PM

Whats wrong with Petro? Thats the only gas I get cause I get 2 cents off.

haha +1 i only use petro...also because i get 2 cents off each litre with the citi card haha

Xerox

07-25-2007, 03:14 AM

I'll use any of the large gas station chains as long as they provide me some type of benefit over the other guy (convenience, station design, car wash, etc.). Currently I goto Esso exclusively cuz it's the only station with touchless + railless in my area so I collect Esso points to use towards free car washes.
But in the past I've used Shell if I want to collect air miles. I've used Petro if I want to save 2 cents per litre (although the location I went to always ran out of printing paper which forced me to go inside to collect my receipt...very annoying).

As long as the gas doesn't cause CEL it's pretty much fine with me.

but if I go to esso its like I get to watch TV while pumping gas... "vary niiiiiice"

But all they show are ads. And the pumps are really slow too...I think to force you to watch as many ads as possible during your fill-up. The most entertainment I had watching the stupid TV was when it crashed and displayed Windows blue screen of death. :chuckle

levonida0103

07-25-2007, 05:25 AM

either 91 supreme or shell v-power for me, most sunoco's in mississauga have rabba's anyways, so the washroom thing is covered.

Cardinal Fang

07-25-2007, 12:15 PM

I really was hesitant on posting this because in all honestly I thought I had made a mistake in accessing my driving habits that caused my mileage to shoot through the roof.

On a whim last Thursday I decided to fill up on Sunoco (unleaded). I wanted to see why many of you are buying from this chain. Many of you had mentioned better mileage. Well...I've decided to fill up my tank again to see if I can duplicate the results. I've got about another day or two on this tank but what I can report is that typically I get about 460 to 480 kms on PetroCan gas on a full tank when the light turns on. I've just hit 500 kms and my light hasn't come on. My driving habbits are the same (in my opinion) so I can't put my finger on what's changed other than the gas.

I'm willing to accept a certain amount of deviation in mileage given a change in gas company but nothing near the +20 kms I'm at now. That's why I'm going to fill up again to duplicate the results. Something doesn't make sense.

Stay tunned....

XizorGetspeed

07-25-2007, 12:45 PM

Why are people filling anything besides regular unleaded? I heard that anything like Silver or Premium, Ultra 94 etc... is just a waste because the car is not made for it...

Any truth to this?

azn_outlaw

07-25-2007, 12:47 PM

I dont know but this is my list on what I find gives me the best milage:

1) Shell
2) Petro-Canada
3) Sunnoco

The funny thing I used to hate shell, the rare occasion I used to use it on my old Honda, it would not give any great results...but now with the Mazda3, I have found on two occasions I get a good 585KM per tank and that is with an intake + mix of highway / local driving

azn_outlaw

07-25-2007, 12:51 PM

oh and about that higher octane

unless you got 200+ horsepower or done a mazdaspeed3 turbo motor swap

look at your car manual first, whats it say for recommend is 87

there is no difference performance wise when using higher octane in our cars...

Cardinal Fang

07-25-2007, 01:30 PM

I will never understand the benefits to paying for higher octane gas when your car was never designed to run on it. All the literature I've read points in the same direction. NO INCREASE IN PERFORMANCE AND NO INCREASE IN MILEAGE. Unless your cars engine was designed to run on premium unleaded you are simply paying more for gas. That's it.

KenYork

07-25-2007, 04:38 PM

Xerox

07-31-2007, 12:36 PM

On a whim last Thursday I decided to fill up on Sunoco (unleaded). I wanted to see why many of you are buying from this chain. Many of you had mentioned better mileage. Well...I've decided to fill up my tank again to see if I can duplicate the results. I've got about another day or two on this tank but what I can report is that typically I get about 460 to 480 kms on PetroCan gas on a full tank when the light turns on. I've just hit 500 kms and my light hasn't come on. My driving habbits are the same (in my opinion) so I can't put my finger on what's changed other than the gas.

I'm willing to accept a certain amount of deviation in mileage given a change in gas company but nothing near the +20 kms I'm at now. That's why I'm going to fill up again to duplicate the results. Something doesn't make sense.

Stay tunned....

Keep in mind that not all pumps will stop the gas flow (the first "click") at the same time. So some gas stations (or even different pumps at the same gas station) could be putting more gas in your tank than others.
Also I think the volume of gas in your tank will depend on the outside temperature. On cool mornings/evenings you may be able to squeeze a bit more fuel in the tank as opposed to hot days.
So if you're going to compare then I suggest you do actual calculations of distance travelled and fuel filled/used rather than when the light comes on.

Cardinal Fang

07-31-2007, 02:36 PM

Very good points Xerox and I will do what you recommend. I'm on my 2nd tank of Sunoco and the results look promising.

WLS ZMZM

07-31-2007, 02:52 PM

But all they show are ads. And the pumps are really slow too...I think to force you to watch as many ads as possible during your fill-up. The most entertainment I had watching the stupid TV was when it crashed and displayed Windows blue screen of death. :chuckle

hmmm true enough however still better then some lousy elevator music... at most other stations... :D

Top gas stations

1) Sunoco
2) Shell
3) Esso
4) Petro - Canada winter gas my :AH

nicker

07-31-2007, 04:01 PM

Id say either Sunoco or Shell. Stay the heck away from Petro Canada, their gas sucks! Not to mention I find them to be rude for the most part.

The are the first to jack their prices and the last to come down in price after everyone else has. I love to see everyone avoid them and put the f-ing company out of business!

Tokic_o

07-31-2007, 04:04 PM

^^^..d price changing really depends on each station..

garboui

07-31-2007, 06:23 PM

ive been using petro can gas almost exclusively and i can consistantly get 560km to gas light with 2.3L and atx driving normally. ive gotten a bit berrer by uber babying it but that wasnt fun at all.

i have found in the winter that its either my winter tires(blizzaks) of petros winter gas, i get horrible mileage even with loong highway trips.

i have had some incentive lately to use canadian tire gas but i am afaraid of its quality. does anyone know who supplies gas for can-tie and if its any good?

dredd2099

07-31-2007, 09:24 PM

unrelated, kind of
how many litres of gas can the 3s belly hold?

garboui

07-31-2007, 10:22 PM

55 in a full tank completely

at gas light to empty line around 45L

Unoriginalusername

08-01-2007, 09:36 AM

55 in a full tank completely

at gas light to empty line around 45L

I've had my light on for sometime and was only able to pack in 48.5 litres in my speed, i don't think there was an additional 6.5 litres of space given how long the light had been on and the trip computer said i only had about 15 more km before empty

Garu

08-01-2007, 11:01 AM

I've only done this once.
The trip computer said 0 km left but I think I squeezed 20 k more. The gauge needle was actually dropping below the last mark.
I got scared that car would stop went to nearby gas station.

Flagrum_3

08-01-2007, 11:17 AM

Read an article some moons back about the BMW fuel tests, basically they run engines the equivalent of 100,000 kms, tear them apart and compare the carbon build-up, cleaner tarnish etc; etc; ...apparently this is done annually I believe...Anyways Shell was in the top three and the other two were fuels only available in the states, which unfortunately I cannot remember the names of...So basically I use Shell exclusively and find I get great performance and mileage.

_3

.

starwind

08-01-2007, 03:38 PM

Read an article some moons back about the BMW fuel tests, basically they run engines the equivalent of 100,000 kms, tear them
.

Could this be the article (or the program) ?

"Qualifying Fuels to Avoid Intake Valve Deposits (http://www.swri.org/3pubs/brochure/d08/qualify/qual.htm)" from Southwest Research Institute

"...the SwRI/BMW North America (NA) fuels evaluation program was initiated in January 1988"

Tokic_o

08-01-2007, 04:01 PM

hey a little off topic but its still about gas......you know when the news says the prices for a barrel of oil has reached all time highs or whatever.....how does that affect the price of fuel at the gas stations? does it affect it at the same day?

nicker

08-01-2007, 04:09 PM

Ill tell you Tokic_o its called gougeing! And I will tell you again Petro Canada is the worst for it! I have seen it first hand for ages, near my house there is a Esso and Petro and when ever the gas went up Petro was the first to go up in price and the last to come down, and typcially they are a few points of a cent higher too. Not to mention their gas SUCKS.

Shell all the way, much better gas then Id say Sunoco.

Gizzmo_jr

08-01-2007, 04:13 PM

I started a mileage sheet like majic had way back, and I was using exclusively Ultramar because of convenience to my house. Best MPG was 28, switched to Sunoco (filled from fumes) and got an average of 37MPG off the first tank. Now, after 4 tanks of using straight Sunoco, I get an extra 50km to the half tank and 100~km to the full tank. New personal best at the half tank was 355km. My last tank upon fuel computer reset, said I had 689km left. Vice 585-610km on Ultramar.

I am more then willing now to go out of my way for Sunoco (bonus is CAA membership discount).

Flagrum_3

08-01-2007, 04:52 PM

Could this be the article (or the program) ?

"Qualifying Fuels to Avoid Intake Valve Deposits (http://www.swri.org/3pubs/brochure/d08/qualify/qual.htm)" from Southwest Research Institute

"...the SwRI/BMW North America (NA) fuels evaluation program was initiated in January 1988"

Jeez that article is 17 years old, mind you its about what i read but the article I read was only several years ago.Anyways good find.

_3

.