Mazda 3 Sport GT 151.41 FWHp, 150.01 FWTq

[Edmonius]

Figured my first post ever would be something interesting. =)
Looks like she was running a tad rich towards the end of the run, blowing some black smoke. Anyway, here we go:

Mods:
Mazdaspeed CAI
Vibrant header
Vibrant cat-back
Buddy Club Condenser
87 Octane, no timing advance.

http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/edmonius/?action=view&current=dyno.jpg

[Gizzmo_jr]

You putting that Vortech centrifugal supercharger on by chance?

[Edmonius]

LOL, while I'm sure it'd be interesting, I'm not quite sure how it would fit...

The Vortech is actually long gone. It was from my '97 Maxima.

Anybody want the intercooler though??

[Gizzmo_jr]

Oh nice numbers btw.:)

[3GFX]

Wow decent numbers!!! Other pulls on stock 2.3L GTs have been around 125 - 130 whp

[WeatherB]

Ya, numbers look good for a non-turbo. Seems like the header and exhaust gave you an extra 15HP (since a 2.3 should produce around 135 with a CAI).

[sp3GT]

Edmonius do you drive a manual or auto?

[Edmonius]

Manual.

Anybody have any ideas on how to get this thing up to 170WHp N/A?

[3GFX]

Ya... 50-shot nos ;)

lol...I think you're topped out bud. Next step....turbo.

[Edmonius]

LOL, "I need Nos. I need Nos!"

Done the forced induction thing twice already. This one's gonna be a challenge. =)

I'm gonna see what can be done in terms of tuning...might be able to eke out another 5 WHp with some timing advance, especially since I was running rich from 5000 Rpm on. I think tuning is gonna be a big factor in power adding.

...Or blowing it up.

[sp3GT]

Maybee you can get the buddyclub, change all the pulleys, do the timing mod and see where you're at then.

There's a dyno on M3F that shows buddyclub does give you some HP.

[3GFX]

What is the buddyclub condensor anyway? What does it do?

[07Speedfreak]

he has the buddy club condenser

[Edmonius]

Yup, already have the Buddy Club. I'm not entirely convinced that it was a power adder, but what was really noticable was throttle response, since I ran one of the grounds to the TB.

[doughboyr6]

maybe 1-2 HP, but barely noticeable....but throttle is a bit more responsive and i found shifting to be slightly smoother.

[whiteomega]

Manual.

Anybody have any ideas on how to get this thing up to 170WHp N/A?

money...

[Victorious52]

get your cams and rods done ... throw a chip in there and youll be up to 170 no problem ...

[3GFX]

I was thinking about this.

A next step could be integrating larger injectors, fuel pump and of course some new mapping.

I think that is going to have to be your next step. Re-programming the computer on the car along with some other minor mods will help you get more power from what you've done already.

[Edmonius]

Does anyone make a chip (that actually works) for the 3? I've been looking and so far the only real engine management option that doesn't suck looks like the Microtech.

As far as fuel pressure and injectors go, it looks like for NA power under 200Whp the stockers should be fine. If a significantly higher compression ratio or boost were in play, then we'd have issues of the explody sort...

I'm gonna try the ghetto advanced timing mod when I get a chance and see how it does on the dyno. Aside from that, maybe Cosworth will make an IM specifially for our cars. It should be worth another 10-20Whp, but I think tuning is still going to be the deciding factor.

Oh, I forgot to mention: I want the car to make power AND be emissions legal. =)

[dentinger]

cosworth does make an intake manifold for our cars....

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/dentinger/cosworthintake.jpg

and no, thats not my car. that guy lives in puerto rico, and has a 560 whp mazda3 sedan (2.3L). i think thats at 20 psi, on race gas IIRC.

[3GFX]

I've seen that manifold before. Not cheap at all. But probably a decent upgrade to our stock manifold. The is probably worth conestoga wagon of ponies.

[Edmonius]

Mmm...that's hot. But that manifold's actually for the 2.3 Duratec in the Focus. Rumour has it that Cosworth's developing one specifically for our cars, which is what I'm hoping for. Plus I'm too lazy to spend $700 on an IM that I'd still have to modify to fit. Though the cable actuated throttle's a nice touch...

[dentinger]

$700?

ouch.

and i guess thats why he has a thottle cable. cuz the manifold isnt meant for our cars....

[3GFX]

I'd prefer a throttle cable, it be a lot better than the computer deciding what to do after my right foot asks it what to do. Our cars aren't to bad I guess, but some days!@$%&!

[dentinger]

ya, and you also cant rev the engine from the engine compartment.
i hate that.

i wanna dyno my car sometime after my headers are installed...
and i would love to get a lightweight flywheel, but those are pricey....

[MZ3_GS]

What gear was this run done in.

[Edmonius]

4th gear.

Gonna advance the timing this week and hit the dyno on the weekend. Hoping for 155 Whp!

Has anyone ever actually seen a lighter flywheel generate better numbers on the dyno? I'd get one anyway for drivability, but in terms of power, it's like one of those things they should do on Mythbusters...

[dentinger]

from wat my friend says, every 1 lb you take off the flywheel, you gain about 2. or something like that.....
he just got an underdrive pulley for his jetta, so once my header's are installed, we both want to get our cars dyno'd.
and i want to e-test my car too. just to see if it'll pass with headers and a catback...

[doughboyr6]

the lightened flywheel has some negative side effecs...check out Mazda3forums for more details

[MZ3_GS]

With a lightened fly wheel the engine will rev faster but you'll lose torque at the top end, which may or may not result in HP loss. Reducing the weight is only beneficial to a certain point

[dentinger]

ya, and from wat i read on M3forums, its also harder to start the car, because of the less rotating mass. also, you have to push more gas when moving from a stop, or something like that.

[theurgy]

I say your next step is fuel management, and upgraded injectors, timing advance and those lightweight pulleys.

[Edmonius]

Finally got around to doing the timing advance today! Just got back from a nice long cruise and she's smooth as velvet. With any luck I'll dyno this coming weekend. =)

[EvilDeadFan]

Very nice mods. :) I'm interested to see what those dyno results will yield this time.. :D

[vblanche]

noob queston here: timing advance??? what is it? any reading recommendation? thanks

[theurgy]

Taken from MAzdas247.com:

Ignition Timing Advance (Monzta's Timing Mod)
Price: $0
Install: 20-40min (http://**********************/index....5573#msg585573)
Further Reading: http://www.miata.net/garage/KnowYourCar/S10_Timing.html
Pros: Take advantage of higher octane, smoother acceleration, more hp/tq, ECU pulls back when engine knocking is detected
Cons: 1.6L has the sensor in a fixed position, Cost of using higher octane, Possible knocking from 87
Peak Power Gains: +6whp/3wtq (using 89 octane and timing vs. 87; your mileage may vary)
What you're basically doing is igniting the fuel mixture a little sooner by moving the slotted crank position sensor to advance the ignition timing. It will still be within factory specs (8° BTDC set at factory according to Service Manual, 10° BTDC according to Service Highlights- that info alone could be why some stock 3s are putting out slightly higher #s than others). This modification only deals with the ignition; the cam is not affected- therefore, the VVT operations/changes will still engage at the same rpms. While 87 octane works with this modification, those who have experienced knocking/pinging use 89 octane to compensate.

I advise you to reset the ECU so the timing curves/maps can be learned quicker. It will most likely stall just once while trying to find the new idle speed (it won’t stall again while it’s idle hunting the next time you reset the ECU). Some users report a slightly lower idle speed after doing this mod, so don't be surprised if it drops lower than you're used to. You might also want to add some fuel injector cleaner every few tanks if you’re using 89 or higher.

My observations on different octane after this mod:
I've tried running 87 and it didn't seem to accelerate as fast on the freeway (ECU possibly retarding back the timing to a "safer" level). Burned through 2 gallons pretty fast though. I feel almost no difference between 89 and 91 for my 3, but both allow me to get better performance and smoother/quicker acceleration at the cost of lower gas mileage compared to the 87.

From Monzsta, the mod's originator:
Factory timing is highly conservative, plus the ever-present knock sensor will protect the engine. Worst case scenario is the mod won't show any gains, meaning that the engine is utilizing all the advance it had previous, and the ecm is pulling out the added timing due to spark knock. Being users of this mod ARE reporting gains, it would seem the engine can use more timing. My car hasn't shown any improvement in stock form with 87 vs. 93 octane and it seems to now after advancing the timing, indicating the ecm is finally using the knock sensor to determine what grade of fuel I'm running and adapting it's timing maps to compensate. (as it should if the engine were in a max effort tune from the factory, like a 'Vette's.)

Timing Advance + 89 octane dyno:
@3.5k: +2hp, 4tq
@4.5k: +3hp, 4tq
@5.5k: +4hp, 4tq
@6.0k: +5hp, 4tq
@6.5k: +5hp, 4tq

http://i2.tinypic.com/xd5r11.gif

[stevenlung]

Finally got around to doing the timing advance today! Just got back from a nice long cruise and she's smooth as velvet. With any luck I'll dyno this coming weekend. =)

any result? and how was the timing advance?

[Edmonius]

Haven't had time to get to the dyno yet, but it feels good...

The butt dyno says there's a gain, but I'm dying to find out. Unfortunately for the dyno, but fortunately for me, my springs and swaybar just showed up so I think there'll be one more trip to the shop before I get her on the rollers. =)

[SilentJay]

Are there actually lighter pullies (sp?) for the 3? My last encounter with under drive pulleys have either rendered the AC useless as it leaves the condenser out of the loop, or it causes under-charge problems with the alternator. Maybe i'm totally on crack...

[3GFX]

There are lighter pullies, with all the affects you listed :D

[SilentJay]

Fantastic. Well, I like my AC, and I like sufficient charge even more, so I guess those are out of the question. Hmm...

[Edmonius]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of underdrive pullies, pretty much for all the reasons you listed. I've always had good experiences with lightened flywheels though, and since I'll need a new clutch anyway...

I'll get the car on a dyno again as soon as she gets some springtime lovin'. And maybe a new IM. =)

[cwp_sedan]

I ran an UD pulley on my old Grand Am and it didn't have any ill effects on the charging or cooling system (water pump, crank, alt, etc. were all run off of the belt). If I could would I do it on my 3, probably not.

[2hit6]

Nice numbers... Planning to take it on the track? Lowing the weight of the car would help alot... Just a thought!

[mazdas3sporte]

u dug up a thread I was actually searching for! if this guy is pulling 151 WHP than Iam probebly pulling 130 stock ... if that.... faaaak

[Thrizzl3]

u dug up a thread I was actually searching for! if this guy is pulling 151 WHP than Iam probebly pulling 130 stock ... if that.... faaaak

lol what are you worried about?

[mazdas3sporte]

lol what are you worried about?

what do u mean what am i worrying about, ???

[Edmonius]

Aww, that car is long since dead. Rockin' an MS3 now.

[mazdas3sporte]

good move up, u lucky u got the current speed 3 , the new MPS is an all around shit car, looks like a toyota matrix... boo

[Gen1GT]

With a lightened fly wheel the engine will rev faster but you'll lose torque at the top end, which may or may not result in HP loss. Reducing the weight is only beneficial to a certain point

Horsepower and torque are directly related. Horsepower is just the rate at which you make torque. Making torque faster is just as good as making more torque. Their relationship is expressed with this formula:

HP= (Torque X RPM)/5252

So if your torque is increasing, then so is your horsepower. Also, if your engine speed is increasing, then usually is your power.

A lightened flywheel is just tricky because there is less rotational interia keeping the engine turning and recipricating when you let off the throttle.

[Gen1GT]

-delayed, I know...but if I haven't seen it, it's new to me!