MS3 engine in a sedan?

[fitalicious]

I dont know if anyone has asked this yet. But I was wondering if the mazdaspeed engine would fit inside a sedan, like maybe the 2004 lol. Obviously going to a dealer and buy one new would be insane amount of money. But if somehow someone got a hold of this engine, would this swap be possible? or would their be too many issues with fitment? so wut im really asking is.
1.will it fit? would i need a taller hood, new mounts, any cutting, welding?
2.on top of purchase of engine tranny and ecm, what would be the remaining costs of this swap?

am i insane for even asking a question like this? and yes i know i shoulda bought a mazdaspeed3 in the first place, but i like the sedan better, and there arent any used ones for sale, so $40,000 wasnt in my budget lol

good...and bad feedback welcome:chuckle

[WhiteSpeed3]

it will prob fit but i would think u would need to change the hood unless u do a front mount

but y dont u just turbo the motor u have it will prob be cheaper

[fitalicious]

will the 2.3 handle the turbo with a good bolt on kit, or will i need to do internals aswell? or should I just wait for the supercharger kit that is apparently coming out sometime soon?

superchargers are safer and more reliable to not blow your shit up and can produde relatively the same power. but i still love the blow off sound of turbo compared the that stupid whinning sound of a supercharger.

anyone have any feedback on the supercharger and turbo kits that are available for the 2.3?

[ptfire]

I would be better and cheaper in the long run if you just went ahead and traded your car in for a MS3. You could get a new 2007 for $31,500 on the road.

[Skarbro]

You can make anything fit if you have enough money. I'm sure that the Speed3 engine could be retro-fit in a 3 sedan. I'm seen enough engine swaps on other cars.

[chinsterr]

Someone that works at Mazda Canada (the one near the 404 entrance/exit on 16th) is in attempts to do so.

He already purchased a engine the last time I spoke to him .

[mogul_pro]

I am sure you could mount the ms3 motor to a m3 sedan... just wait for someone to crash an ms3 and get the motor from the wreckers when its written off. ;)

[Walrus]

I remember reading a review when the MS3 was coming out, that modifications to the firewall were required to fit the motor.

[Edmonius]

So, are we talking in terms of "Can it be done?" or "Can it be done practically?"

I'm pretty sure the motor will fit, probably better with an FMIC instead of the top-mount. As long as you have money and patience, you're good there.

But my gut feeling is that the wiring harnesses between the MZ3 and MS3 are completely different. The ECU programming definitely is. So, if my bowels are correct, you'll need to replace your wiring harness and ECU with the Speed3's. I don't know about you, but the thought of having to do that is worth about $40K to me. =)

Or you could just boost your motor at low pressure and get an LSD...
And on that note, since our cars run on a MAF referenced air/fuel mix, you'll need to recirculate your BOV. Unfortunately that means no *pssht!* sound.

[fitalicious]

Or you could just boost your motor at low pressure and get an LSD...
And on that note, since our cars run on a MAF referenced air/fuel mix, you'll need to recirculate your BOV. Unfortunately that means no *pssht!* sound.

dude i think u single handedly just crushed my will to turbo my motor, i mean ya turbo is fun, but without the psshhht then im definately leaning 98% towards supercharger. minus i still hate that whining noise.

isnt there any way to change that stupid maf set up so i could get the pssshhhht sound from a turbo?

[Unoriginalusername]

i think it is midnightgfx that has turbo'd his car with the hi boost kit and it has a bov... i would go that route vs. a translplant

[chinsterr]

i think it is midnightgfx that has turbo'd his car with the hi boost kit and it has a bov... i would go that route vs. a translplant

and his makes the pssssht noise :)

[midnightfxgt]

LOL! Yea, I am boosted, and the BOV is quite loud :)

First off, why do you think a Supercharger is any "better" for the lifespan of your car?

Second... if you want a MS3 motor in your sedan, get ready for some work. The Firewall is different in the MS3. So you need to change that. Not to mention I am assuming the Wiring harness is too. Also the DISI motor has a different fuel system than a MZ3, so you need that pump and whatever goes along with it.

Third... for those who think it is cheaper to just buy a MS3 over boosting, that may not true. A new MS3 is over $30K. With the 2004 Sedan being worth something like 14-16K (guessing), thats a HUGE price difference. Factor in taxes, licencing yadda yadda, and its not worth it IMO. You can boost your car around $5000 properly, and be good to go. The only major downside is warranty. But hey.... mine was already gone :)

-John

[midnightfxgt]

dude i think u single handedly just crushed my will to turbo my motor, i mean ya turbo is fun, but without the psshhht then im definately leaning 98% towards supercharger.

Yikes! Please dont boost your car if the main reason behind it is the noise :bang

[Wild Weasel]

FWIW, I love the whine that comes from my Sunfire when I open 'er up. :bana

[condor888000]

Someone on M3F has a 3 and a MS3 drivetrain, starting to work on a swap.

[midnightfxgt]

I think the tranny would bolt right up. I would LOVE to get my hands on a 6sp LSD :)

[WhiteSpeed3]

I think the tranny would bolt right up. I would LOVE to get my hands on a 6sp LSD :)


i think i saw one on ebay but im not sure if u want to order it from there

[midnightfxgt]

i think i saw one on ebay but im not sure if u want to order it from there

Would depend on the auction really.... can you imagine shipping?! lol.

Right now I am poor. No mods till the kit and hood in spring.

-John

[b]

LOL! Yea, I am boosted, and the BOV is quite loud :)

First off, why do you think a Supercharger is any "better" for the lifespan of your car?

Second... if you want a MS3 motor in your sedan, get ready for some work. The Firewall is different in the MS3. So you need to change that. Not to mention I am assuming the Wiring harness is too. Also the DISI motor has a different fuel system than a MZ3, so you need that pump and whatever goes along with it.

Third... for those who think it is cheaper to just buy a MS3 over boosting, that may not true. A new MS3 is over $30K. With the 2004 Sedan being worth something like 14-16K (guessing), thats a HUGE price difference. Factor in taxes, licencing yadda yadda, and its not worth it IMO. You can boost your car around $5000 properly, and be good to go. The only major downside is warranty. But hey.... mine was already gone :)

-John

I've heard here and there that insurance won't cover you if you've dropped a turbo in it. Is that true? I mean I would be willing to pay a higher premium but I wouldn't want to lose insurance. Shed any light?

[Edmonius]

Oh, the elusive *pssht!*

Now, when I said that you'd need to recirc your BOV, it was more a proven recommendation than a rule. You can open vent if you want; it's just gonna mean that your car will run pig rich in certain spots. Some people don't mind; heck, I know of a few S13's that run open vent and generally work fine, except for the occasional smoky black fart.

So yes, you can get your *pssht* sound! =)

Now, if you wanted to ditch the MAF setup, you'd need some sort of standalone ECU and a MAP referenced air/fuel system. In any case, it might be cheaper to buy a car that already has a MAP tuned ECU. Like an Acura.

I'm aware that I'm the lord of sentence fragments tonight, but I've had a few (many?) drinks of different sorts. So bear with me. Superchargers need recirc valves too. Anything that makes boost should have some sort of recirc or BOV so you don't fry the bearing in the turbo/compressor.

And most importantly, the LSD is key. Doesn't matter if you're making 500Whp if all you're spinning is one wheel. And in that vein, anyone know where I can get one?

[fitalicious]

Yikes! Please dont boost your car if the main reason behind it is the noise :bang

lol no no its not only because of the sound. I just heard that turbos arent really reliable in the long run. just like doing an ls/vtec swap in a honda/acura. unless you pay top dollar and get the job done by someone who is known to do a damn good job then after a couple years its going to start burning oil or start breaking down.

but yes if you're going to do anything to your car then might aswell save some money and get it done properly. hence why i didnt do an ls/vtec on my 1.7gsr.

but you said $5000 for a "good to go" set up. do you mean a damn good setup that "should" be reliable for more than a few years?

im only leaning towards the supercharger because i heard it was more of a natural boost for the engine and it usually ends up being cheaper.

i never said that i thought doing an ms3 swap would be cheaper, i was simply wondering bout fitment and extra costs after engine tranny and ecu. but i definately like the whole ms3tranny with a 6speed idea.

[Wild Weasel]

So far as insurance goes, if you tell them about the turbo then you're going to have difficulty getting insured. I'm going through that right now with my Sunfire.

As for reliability... one of the things that makes a turbo less reliable is the fact that it's so easy to up the boost on them. If I put a supercharger on your car, and set it to 7 psi, and tell you to leave it that way, then there's not much you can do to crank it up just for a little fun.

If I do the same with a turbo, you can pretty easily bump it up to 10 or 12 "just for a little while" to see how it feels until you break something. The temptation is strong. :chuckle

[Unoriginalusername]

http://images.quizilla.com/G/gimpyb4/1043106772_syodagreen.jpg

the force is strong with boost

[midnightfxgt]

Yea, if you up the boost to play around, your more apt to break things. Same goes if you up the boost on a SC.... its just harder to do :) All in all, I would not say 1 is more reliable than another at all. Keeping in mind that XPSI vs XPSI and your not upping it all the time.

As for insurance... they will drop it like its hot! lol. However most insurance companies will for lowering etc. Some will just for paint (Heard MANY horror stories about Pilot). To be insured properly you must have an appraisal and go to a company that allows modded vehicles. I am in the middle of trying to get all of mine in order. My premium will go up $40/month.

Recirc vs VTA - VTA sounds cooler. From what I hear the MS3 likes to be recirced or you will have super rich spots as it is expecting that air back into the intake, as opposed to being dumped into the atmosphere. I dont know how true or how drastic this is, since I dont know the MS3 well :) On a HiBoost, you can tune everything, so VTA all ya want ;)

Civic Swap - I am no Civic specialist by any means, but A swap shouldnt cause a motor to start burning oil. It is still running as it would, just in a different shell. Now if you get a swap from an unreliable shop who provides the motor, they may burn oil since the motor may have a lot more KMs than advertised.

$5000 will get you a highboost kit, shipping, a Wideband 02 (A MUST!) and some other guages. Install it yourself and your set ;)

-John

[fitalicious]

[QUOTE=midnightfxgt;238044]Civic Swap - I am no Civic specialist by any means, but A swap shouldnt cause a motor to start burning oil. It is still running as it would, just in a different shell. Now if you get a swap from an unreliable shop who provides the motor, they may burn oil since the motor may have a lot more KMs than advertised.

i was reffering to a ls/vtec swap. whcih means taking a vtec motor head, and putting it onto a non vtec lower end. reason for this is because the non vtec lower end produces more low end torque opposed to a high revving top end. put these two together along with a few other parts and you can have a low 13 second car.

maybe i will just get a CAI and do my 3 for looks, and stick to my hondas for racing.

thanks for everyones input and criticism. mucho appreciated.