Quebec makes winter tires mandatory

[b3GS]

I'm know this is a safety issue, and important... but MAKING IT LAW!?!?
:loco

what do you guys think?


Quebec makes winter tires mandatory

RHÉAL SÉGUIN
From Thursday's Globe and Mail
December 20, 2007 at 3:22 AM EST

QUEBEC — Quebec has become the first province to require car owners to install winter tires on their vehicles as part of a new road safety law aimed at reducing fatal accidents.

It will become mandatory next fall for all vehicles to be equipped with a full set of winter tires from Nov. 15 to April 15. Currently, 90 per cent of Quebec drivers switch to winter tires. But Minister of Transportation Julie Boulet wanted to make snow tires compulsory, even though buying them will represent an additional cost for some owners.

“There is no price when it comes to road safety,” Ms. Boulet said Wednesday. “What we want is to save lives and this is just one of the measures that will allow us to do this.”

Last year, 717 people died as a result of accidents on the province's roads.

The new law also prohibits drivers from using hand-held cellphones, a measure that will be gradually introduced beginning Jan. 1. This was a controversial proposal made by the task force on highway safety this fall, and the government decided to implement it immediately, convinced that cellphone use has become a serious obstacle to safe driving.

The province will also begin testing photo radars and cameras at traffic lights in 15 communities across three regions of the province as part of a pilot project to evaluate their efficiency in reducing accidents. Furthermore, it will be compulsory for new drivers to take driver education courses, and heavy trucks will have to be equipped with governors to limit their speed to 105 kilometres an hour.

In the fight to reduce drinking and driving, Premier Jean Charest's minority government failed to receive support from opposition parties to drop the blood-alcohol limit from 0.08 to 0.05. Ms. Boulet had proposed suspending the driver's licence for 24 hours of anyone caught driving with a blood-alcohol level above 0.05 but less than 0.08. She said there would no fines or demerit points, arguing that it was simply an “administrative penalty” aimed at discouraging anyone who consumes alcohol from driving.

However, the Action Démocratique du Québec asserted that the measure was targeting the wrong people. ADQ transportation critic Pierre Gingras said it was “inadequate” because it was penalizing those who drink moderately while doing little “to take the repeat offenders, real criminals, off the road.”

The Parti Québécois said some drivers could be wrongly penalized by their insurance companies and would have no legal recourse if they were falsely accused of breaking the law. PQ critic Serge Deslières argued that the government would be better off hiring more police officers, and strictly imposing the current 0.08 limit if it was serious about reducing fatalities.

The Liberals accused the opposition parties of bowing to pressures from bar owners who feared a major drop in business if the stricter blood-alcohol limit was adopted.

Ms. Boulet said 6 per cent of all fatal drinking-and-driving accidents involved people who had a blood-alcohol level between 0.05 and 0.08. She said that would average out to about 12 deaths a year. “We believe this measure would have saved that many lives. Each life is worth saving and we strongly believed it,” the minister said yesterday. But she was forced to drop the measure in order to ensure Wednesday's adoption of the bill.

[PlatMS6]

Yay... Canadian drivers need all the help they can get!

[Skarbro]

Good for Quebec! I agree with this new law 100%. Now if only Ontario will follow suit.

[Walrus]

Until April 15?

[Skarbro]

Until April 15?
It's probably taking into consideration all the people that live in Northern Quebec - they have quite a different climate than Toronto.

[yearoftherat]

Interesting to read that 90% of people switch over to winter tires. Its prb less than 50% here. Passing a new law like this in Ontario will never be a reality and I agree on the part regarding cellphone users.

[Xerox]

Welcome to the nanny state.

[Wild Weasel]

Wow! That's even stricter than my suggestion!

I figure it should only be mandatory when there's more than a couple cm of accumulated snow on the roads... and people called me a communist for it! :D

Good for Quebec! A bit harsh... but good for them just the same!

[cereal83]

I would love to see that as a rule in Ontario but the extra costs, well not everybody can afford it. Sure the rich people can but what about the single mothers with 5 kids or the students with $5000 a year tuition, books and res with only a part time job at McDonalds?

[Xerox]

I would love to see that as a rule in Ontario but the extra costs, well not everybody can afford it. Sure the rich people can but what about the single mothers with 5 kids or the students with $5000 a year tuition, books and res with only a part time job at McDonalds?

If you can't afford it I suppose you can't drive in snow. Your questions are one-sided. It makes it seem as though it will benefit only the driver/owner of that vehicle. A fatal accident caused by a car without adequate winter tires can lead to the death of a passenger in another vehicle (that has winter tires) or a pedestrian.
Owning a car is a form of luxery isn't it? (okay, maybe there are some cases where it's required) If cash flow is tight, then you shouldn't have a car.

[b3GS]

this also gives the false assumption though that winter tires will make you a safer driver.

no tires can do that!

how about some driver training instead. it seems more a case of driving appropriately for the conditions, which most people don't. You think Toronto is bad, try driving in Montreal, those guys are crazy-ass drivers. I remember being there once a few years ago and in one day, witness 3 separate accidents, and this was on a normal, dry, sunny summer day!!

I don't think you should be able to force people to have to buy certain tires.

[Perma]

Way too much government intervention. That's complete BS. I drive with winter tires ('cause I'm not cheap/dumb), but if the government told me I HAD to use them, I'd rock summers all year round in spite.

That's BS.

[gqstunning]

No matter what there will still be idiots on the road no matter if they have snowtires or not. Having snowtires just means idiots will drive faster!

[condor888000]

I'm liking some of the stuff here.


The new law also prohibits drivers from using hand-held cellphones, a measure that will be gradually introduced beginning Jan. 1. This was a controversial proposal made by the task force on highway safety this fall, and the government decided to implement it immediately, convinced that cellphone use has become a serious obstacle to safe driving.

The province will also begin testing photo radars and cameras at traffic lights in 15 communities across three regions of the province as part of a pilot project to evaluate their efficiency in reducing accidents. Furthermore, it will be compulsory for new drivers to take driver education courses, and heavy trucks will have to be equipped with governors to limit their speed to 105 kilometres an hour.

To me thats more interesting than the snow tires. Some of those have been talked about for a bit now and are now going to be law. Interesting.

[dr1ft3r]

How are they going to enforce this law? random tire checks?

[stas]

GOOD, this should serve as an example to Ontario. also they should start having annual checkups of all vehicles, which includes tires. my piece 'o shit honda that gets jacket up by high snow get lifted when i stop can make it out of places where suvs get stuck with brand new all seasons. i know winter tires arent gonna make a drive on icy or snowy roads same as on dry roads at +25C but they do help a lot, especially compared to certain all season tires.

this is one of few laws that if proposed by ontario government that i would vote for.

[b3GS]

^ just heard Ontario is considering the same law now, and you don't get a say man!

welcome to communist Canada

[stas]

^ just heard Ontario is considering the same law now, and you don't get a say man!

welcome to communist Canada

thats good news that they are considering something useful. atleast there are some tire regulations starting to happen.

i'm just sick and tired of seeing cars blocking roads and intersections, or hitting something at turtle speeds because the car cant responde. i still remember when a cab slid down a hill going west on finch avenue just after leslie. seriously wtf lol.


sorry guys have to vent, lots on my mind when it comes to winter driving:)

[sunnyhomeboy]

love it. this law is the best ever...

[Skarbro]

^ just heard Ontario is considering the same law now, and you don't get a say man!

welcome to communist Canada
You said it in your first post. It's a safety issue. I'm all for reducing the chances of getting hit by some other driver driving in a snow storm without snow tires. That's not Communism - it's common sense.

[Flagrum_3]

thats good news that they are considering something useful. atleast there are some tire regulations starting to happen.

i'm just sick and tired of seeing cars blocking roads and intersections, or hitting something at turtle speeds because the car cant responde. i still remember when a cab slid down a hill going west on finch avenue just after leslie. seriously wtf lol.


sorry guys have to vent, lots on my mind when it comes to winter driving:)

Contrary to alot of my posts, I'm for this, as I believe it will help with the carnage on the roads, ...(700 accidents per snow storm on average!!) but, I think they should make a ban on h-held cell phones the priority as this almost certainly is a major cause of many accidents in all weather conditions.



_3


.

[stas]

Contrary to alot of my posts, I'm for this, as I believe it will help with the carnage on the roads, ...(700 accidents per snow storm on average!!) but, I think they should make a ban on h-held cell phones the priority as this almost certainly is a major cause of many accidents in all weather conditions.



_3


.

funny thing is, i noticed that i still can get distracted with an earpiece, but it is still safer then handheld cells.

[RallyPlaya]

I Actually think thats a smart Decision Considering the Accidents that Ocur in the Winter time Due to the Weather. Although if they make a law making this mandatory the gov.t should also make winter tires cheaper as many more people will be purchasing them

[Unoriginalusername]

that is dumb... what is the point of all season then? a normal profile all season tire does just fine, only 50 series sidewall all seasons suck

[Skarbro]

that is dumb... what is the point of all season then? a normal profile all season tire does just fine, only 50 series sidewall all seasons suck
What is the point of all season tires? Marketing. All seasons does not mean they are good in all seasons. They're general tires that CAN be used in the winter but not nearly as as effectively as proper winter tires.

From http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=49 (I've bolded the best part):

Three principal characteristics distinguish a winter tire from an all-season tire. The winter tire is made of a softer, spongier rubber that grips better in colder weather. (That’s also why it has to be removed for summer use to avoid wearing it out.) The rubber used in a summer tire becomes hard at 10 C. An all-season tire will stay flexible to –10 Celsius, and the rubber on a winter tire should stay flexible to – 30 C.
The grooves in the tire are deeper, and its large blocky treads bite into snow more aggressively.
A winter tire offers significant safety advantages over an all-season tire. Braking on ice is better. In comparison tests, the best winter tires stopped between 30 and 60 feet shorter than all-season tires from 50km/h. Performance is enhanced in deep snow and slush. You’re less likely to get stuck in a parking spot or to be unable to start on a steep hill. The advantages become greater as tires wear and the all-season model starts to perform like the proverbial banana peel.

[Unoriginalusername]

What is the point of all season tires? Marketing. All seasons does not mean they are good in all seasons. They're general tires that CAN be used in the winter but not nearly as as effectively as proper winter tires.

From http://www.apa.ca/template.asp?DocID=49 (I've bolded the best part):


My Toyota Matrix XRS had 215/50/17 all season tires and you couldn't move it in the snow, my winter beater (oldsmobile cutlas) my parents car (impala & grand am) all have all season tires and will go through snow better than a light car with winter wheels & tires (i.e. my first car, hyundai accent gsi).

an SUV with all season tires is very different then a toyota echo with all season tires, or a mazda3 with low profile all season tires for that matter. Cars with more weight, narrower tread patterns and a larger side wall can get through snow just fine and a law like that is dumb for those folks

[Skarbro]

More weight = poorer braking.

Plus this is a good exerpt:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20051020.wxwhwwinter20/BNStory/specialGlobeAuto/


Myth: 4WD SUVs don't need snow tires.
This is one that should be obvious, but isn't to too many people. Yes, four-wheel drive will help you avoid getting stuck in snow. But once you're moving, 4WD does nothing for your ability to stop or steer.
"A two-wheel drive SUV on Blizzaks will outperform a 4WD SUV on all seasons in our testing at Steamboat Springs, Col.," said Kuykendall, where Bridgestone has a winter tire testing facility and winter driving school.
"Plus these are bigger and heavier vehicles than cars, so the amount of weight transfer involved puts extra stresses on the traction abilities of the tires."

and http://autos.canada.com/winterdriving/story.html?id=961218db-60ca-4441-8358-e068475249be




MYTH: I've got a four-wheel drive, I don't need winter tires.
FACT: The only advantage that all- or four-wheel drive gives a vehicle is traction from a dead stop.
When it comes to braking or stopping, any subcompact two-wheel drive on the road is better than the best SUV. And of course the higher centre of gravity that most four-wheel drives share makes them good candidates for rollovers. If you want a safe four-wheel winter, get winter tires.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

Just recently they allowed the use of studs in winter tires north of Parry Sound IIRC. and I thought that was a great start.


love it. this law is the best ever...

+1


How are they going to enforce this law? random tire checks?

I think enforcing this will be much easier than that... The policewill just need to check the tires on everyone involved in an accident, or in the ditch.

[dr1ft3r]

i am totally against this law.


Good for Quebec! I agree with this new law 100%. Now if only Ontario will follow suit.

Good for Quebec but impractical for Ontario. Weather and road conditions are totally different. Government should focus more on keeping the roads clean. Will reduce more accidents that way.


Owning a car is a form of luxery isn't it? (okay, maybe there are some cases where it's required) If cash flow is tight, then you shouldn't have a car.

No its not! The government already has a long list of demands from us to owning a car. (safety, emission, insurance etc etc) Why should only rich people have the previliges of driving.



this also gives the false assumption though that winter tires will make you a safer driver.

no tires can do that!



I don't think you should be able to force people to have to buy certain tires.

+1


I drive with winter tires ('cause I'm not cheap/dumb), but if the government told me I HAD to use them, I'd rock summers all year round in spite.

That's BS.

Ithought it was illegal to drive summers during winter.


I Actually think thats a smart Decision Considering the Accidents that Ocur in the Winter time Due to the Weather. Although if they make a law making this mandatory the gov.t should also make winter tires cheaper as many more people will be purchasing them

You think tire manufacturers like this law? If it is a safety issue, government should make them standard when purchasing from dealers (i.e seatbelts, day-time running lights, airbags.)




I think enforcing this will be much easier than that... The policewill just need to check the tires on everyone involved in an accident, or in the ditch.

Any law that is not enforced should not exist. Police already have enough on their hands to be checkin for tires.


oh yea, and just imagine the rush in november when everyone goes in to service their cars for winter.

[Skarbro]

Good for Quebec but impractical for Ontario. Weather and road conditions are totally different. Government should focus more on keeping the roads clean. Will reduce more accidents that way.

Just because the weather and road conditions are different, it doesn't mean it's impractical for Ontario. The benefits of winter tires in Toronto have been proven time and time again. Toronto is pretty damn good at keeping the roads clean considering the amount of kilometers of roads it contains. The only thing missing around here is enforcing winter tires.

I've got a 6 month old now and I get pissed every time some :AH without winter tires skids near my car with my boy in it. No one can deny that this will make cars easier to handle and brake in winter conditions.

[Unoriginalusername]

toronto drivers touch snow only a handfull of times per year,quebec or barrie for that matter are very different

[stas]

toronto drivers touch snow only a handfull of times per year,quebec or barrie for that matter are very different

what about ice?

when the temperatured fluctuate from cold at night to warm during day the ashpalt has a tendency to "sweat", this water freezes in the later part of the day (not necessarily night). the greatest problem is that you can't see it most of the time. now is this something that can happen in toronto? yes, because this happens all over the world. and the rest of the world already has regulations for winter tires in place, time for canada to realize that.

[Unoriginalusername]

what about ice?

when the temperatured fluctuate from cold at night to warm during day the ashpalt has a tendency to "sweat", this water freezes in the later part of the day (not necessarily night). the greatest problem is that you can't see it most of the time. now is this something that can happen in toronto? yes, because this happens all over the world. and the rest of the world already has regulations for winter tires in place, time for canada to realize that.

lets save some trouble and just make go transit manditory from nov-april and require a special permit for cars that pass winter specification

[Skarbro]

toronto drivers touch snow only a handfull of times per year,quebec or barrie for that matter are very different
Here's a good excerpt:
http://torontosun.com/SpecialSections/WinterCarCare/2006/11/01/2197775.html


“But we don’t get that much snow here in Southern Ontario,” you say, “so we don’t need winter tires.” That’s a myth that only time will dispel. The fact is winter tires aren’t made just for snow — they’re designed for cold weather driving, and are a must even in late fall.
“All-season tires are a compromise,” says Normand Latremouille, Winter Category Manager for Michelin North America. “When you get to a temperature that is about 7 degrees Celsius, the all-season tire compound starts losing its flexibility. And when you reach -20 degrees you have no flexibility left in the all-season tire.”
The simple fact is that winter tires are made of a completely different rubber compound that allows them to stay soft and flexible long after all-season tires have become hard and brittle.
“The optimum range of performance for a winter tire is between 7 degrees and minus 40 degrees Celsius,” Latremouille says. “That’s why we don’t recommend winter tires be left on the vehicle all year round. The tread will wear a lot faster since it’s made of a softer compound designed to remain flexible in cold weather.”
Even if you’re driving in the late fall when there’s not much or any snow, you’re still better off with winter tires. “That’s why we call these tires ‘winter tires’ and not ‘snow tires,’” Latremouille says. “In the past we used to call them snow tires because they were big, luggy tires and the only thing they were good for was traction in the snow. Now we’re talking winter tire because you have ice conditions, slush, wet and dry pavement — all at cold temperatures.”
The snow tires your parents used to buy had big lugs, but today’s winter tires have what’s known as siping — cuts in the tread block. “These sipes are what create traction in snow and on ice,” Latremouille says. “And when you go on the highway these sipes close to create a certain rigidity you need in the block for maximum control. But at lower speeds you need these sipes to open in order to give you added traction in difficult winter conditions.”
To prove the point, Michelin took two Chrysler 300s — one with all-season tires, the other with winter tires — onto an ice rink where the two vehicles were put through a series of tests to see how they perform.
It’s no surprise that the 300 with winter tires accelerated better, cornered more accurately, and stopped faster that the 300 with all-seasons. But what may surprise some is the fact that electronic stability and braking systems these vehicles were equipped with didn’t help the all-season-equipped vehicle perform better. “The point is that electronic systems from ABS to traction control or even all-wheel-drive or four-wheel-drive,” Latremouille says, “all these systems are as good as the four contact patches you have on the ground.”
In other words, even if your vehicle is equipped with technologies that help you accelerate, brake or corner more safely and efficiently, these systems are useless if your wheels can’t find the traction they need. “It doesn’t matter what kind of technology you have,” Latremouille says. “If you’re not wearing winter tires you’re not going to get the performance you’re hoping for.”

[Unoriginalusername]

Here's a good excerpt:
http://torontosun.com/SpecialSections/WinterCarCare/2006/11/01/2197775.html

His job title is "Winter Category Manager".... you don't suppose he is the least bit biased?

[Skarbro]

That doesn't negate the facts he's quoting in his article.

[wtom]

I'm not for that law.

Look at how cars have evolved over the decades in terms of safety restraints and devices. When people feel they are more safer or more protected, they will push the limits that much more.

I don't have the article(s) but I know the study exists; the number of automobile deaths and accidents keep going up in time despite all the inventions of safety devices in automobiles. The expected result is suppose to be less deaths or accidents in general.

Making it a law to swap in winter tires is NOT going to help. There will still be that group of drivers who think they are king (or queen) of the road even more so when they feel the are driving a vehicle equiped for the weather conditions.

It boils down to education.

The proposed laws will just be additional vehicles of cash flow.

[Ex-Rolla]

^ just heard Ontario is considering the same law now, and you don't get a say man!

welcome to communist Canada


I remember the first snow storm we had (about a month/half ago). I was stuck on the DVP for 3 hours from 2am to 5am, because every single BMW, Infiniti, mercedes, little sports car etc were having a hard time simply driving around a bend because the highway is banked. It was extremely frustrating. People should invest in snow tires period. You have 12 months to save up. putting aside $19.25 per week for a year (= $1000) and you have yourself snow tires and rims.

[3Remix]

its true, snow tires can help reduce alot of accidents
why risk your life for a few hundred bucks