Universal under-car Turbo kit

[1970gizmo]

Has anyone seen these?:)
The turbo is mounted where the muffler used to be and the plumbing runs up the side of the car.
They make vehicle-specific kits but also make a universal kit which I am interested in for my new Mazda 3 GS.:bana2
It says that a first-timer can install a kit in 8 hours or an experienced person can do it in 4-6 hours.
Very cool idea.
I'm just not sure how well it would hold up to our crappy Canadian winters with snow & slush etc.

[1970gizmo]

Well I forgot to put the link in.....
Duh....

here it is.
http://www.ststurbo.com/

[kaval]

I don't see how this would work properly. FI setups need proper tuning. Bolt on stuff like this is too good to be true.

[dentinger]

the only real upside to these kits is that you dont need an intercooler, and its good for corvettes and other cars with crammed engine bays.

for a mazda3, just stick with a traditional turbo kit.

[Wild Weasel]

You do still need fuel mods and tuning. All this really saves is the need for a vehicle specific manifold, at the cost of extra turbo lag due to the length of the charge pipes.

[3GFX]

Seen this before. Works the same way, its just relocation of the actual turbo. I would stick with a traditional setup.

[07Speedfreak]

There was a guy on Stangnet a few years back he had custom done a twin turbo kit, located in the back where the mufflers were. Sounded like a jet. I think he had some problem with oil to the turbo I dont remember but he re-switched it (yes re-switched) to the common location in the engine bay.

[b]

I saw a kit like this on some hot rod t.v. show a year ago. It was a new corvette and they mounted them underneat. Was a cool setup... I don't know the pro's vs. con's but it seemed to work well when they dyno'd it.

[dentinger]

was it the blue C5 on horsepower tv on Spike??
cuz thats the one im tihnking about...

[Edmonius]

Oh, this brings back memories...

A long time ago, I had a Maxima. And being a 4th gen Maxima guy, I felt a strange, silly need for it to run 13's. Maybe it was to compensate for its grocery-getterness. Maybe it was because the only way those cars could be fast is in a straight line. Either way, I, like many others, entertained the idea of this turbo setup. It had its merits at the time; since plumbing a turbo into a 4th gen Max is a nightmare, involving pipe bends even Mario and Luigi couldn't pull off. Hanging a turbo downstream of the intermediate pipe seemed to make sense.

Then I stopped doing drugs and bought a supercharger.

Now, I'm not saying you should slap a blower onto your MZR, but there really are infinitely better ways to boost your 3 than hanging a turbo where your muffler should go.

The first problem would be that there wouldn't be any room for a muffler, but in the event that such details (!) wouldn't bother you, here are the other reasons why this idea isn't so great (this is of course, assuming that we could fit a snail under our cars):

1. Turbines are most efficient when they're close to the exhaust manifold because of the abundant supply of expanding exhaust gas. Yes, in this sense, heat is good. Thermal expansion = turbine efficiency (faster spooling). Putting the turbine on the other end of the car from the primaries is counterproductive.

2. A stream of exhaust gas exiting a motor isn't constant. In an MZR, there are 4 cylinders, so we can imagine 4 separate columns of exhaust gas leaving our motor in sequential order. Each column (or pulse), of course, is at its greatest pressure in the exhaust manifold, so by the time it reaches the back of the car...well, you get the point.

We read a lot about "twin scroll" turbochargers these days, and the point of the twin scroll (or "dual inlet") design is to harness the energy inherent in these exhaust pulses, right off the primaries, so they sequentially hit the turbine wheel, spooling it more efficiently.

3. To add to #2: THERE ARE 2 CATALYTIC CONVERTERS AND A RESONATOR BEFORE THE TURBINE.

4. So lets suppose that the massive amount of piping from the compressor to the throttle body would sufficiently cool an intake charge, negating the need for an intercooler. If we were to plumb said charge piping along the only logical route; the exhaust tunnel, we'd have our intake charge soaking up all that radiating heat from the exhaust plumbing. Thermal wrap might help until it heat soaks, but we'd probably still need an FMIC at the end of our 40Lbs of intake plumbing.

5. Oil pressure to the turbo. 'Nuff said.

6. The Mazdaspeed 3 exists. Along with other turbo kits that weren't engineered on a beer-soaked napkin.

I actually had a number of other reasons why this is a bad idea, like tuning, wastegate placement, etc, but I figure the above will suffice. And if you've read this far: thanks. =)

[whiteomega]

Edmonius, i couldn't have said it better myself.

[1970gizmo]

I agree with a lot of the reservations.

However they claim that the oil pressure thing is taken care of with an additional pump.
The input charge is cooler because of the long input tubing and lag is no worse than a conventional system.

The only reason I was considering it was ease of installation but I still can't see how the turbo would like being stuck in the snow etc..

I'm sure I will eventually go with the Hiboost setup. It seems to be very nicely thought through. I only have 250km on my car so far (picked it up last week) so I will wait a bit first.

Thanks for your opinions guys.:chuckle

[b3GS]

You do still need fuel mods and tuning. All this really saves is the need for a vehicle specific manifold, at the cost of extra turbo lag due to the length of the charge pipes.

there must be HUGE lag on a set-up like that

[Wild Weasel]

The input charge is cooler because of the long input tubing and lag is no worse than a conventional system.


How can you say the lag is no worse? One of the biggest arguments in favour of a TMIC is the near-elimination of lag caused by the very short charge pipes.

This setup is the polar opposite. How could it not lag?

[Edmonius]

Well, maybe if the turbo was tiny...

[Wild Weasel]

Well, maybe if the turbo was tiny...

I'm not following you here...

If the turbo was small, there would be more lag because it wouldn't have the capacity to quickly pressurize the charge pipes. If the turbo was big, there'd be more lag because of the lack of velocity in the exhaust at the end of the pipe so it would need more time to spool.

[1970gizmo]

If you go on the website, they answer all these questions.
They also have video clips from Horsepower TV and 2 Guys Garage where the install these systems.
I agree, there must be more lag, but probably not as much as we all think.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's better than a conventional system, but it does have it's place when there is not enough room for a regular turbo setup.:whoa

[Wild Weasel]

Yeah... I'm not suggesting it's garbage or anything. It'll certainly work. I just don't think it's a good idea if there's a proper solution available.

[whiteomega]

i see plenty of statements in their FAQ, but little evidence to support it. while i have no doubt the system does work and does produce boost, until i see proof of the science, i'll always doubt it's a good investment.

besides, there's plenty of room in the 3 for a good turbo setup :chuckle

[Wild Weasel]

besides, there's plenty of room in the 3 for a good turbo setup :chuckle

That's the key. There's just no reason to do this except to save the cost of a proper manifold, and that's not a good reason.

[midnightfxgt]

After you buy this kit your still going to want injectors, Fuel Management, more piping than is in the pic, etc.... Wont really be much cheaper than a traditional kit that is tried and true.

Installation charges on this kit would be HUGE if you had a shop do it. It is nowhere near Bolt-On.


-John