Mazdaspeed3 Dyno - Tag Racecraft

[REZXPERT]

new to the dyno scene. really don't know what's considered "accurate", apples-to-apples, etc, but Mel @ Tag Racecraft is a pro so i trust him & his equipment (tagracecraft.com)

results: kind of what I expected, not all that impressed w/ WHP#'s but torque#'s were ok. reality is, even w/ the TBE, the stock turbo is too small for big results. happy with my ride for the time being, but I'm anticipating the arrival of my COBB AP for some extra punch. At that point, I'll dyno again @Tag. if the AP doesn't cut it, i'll drink CTA Patrique's turbo punch & start the BIG turbo u/g next year. 300WHP someday and i'll rest easy.
i think.

here it is..

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/tragikgogo/IMG_0534.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj280/tragikgogo/IMG_0536.jpg

[Unoriginalusername]

did you start at the same rpm each time?

[MPS]

is ur car stock ?

[REZXPERT]

did you start at the same rpm each time?

honestly, can't recall. i thought i did but i was fussing w/ the steering wheel, gear shifting, listening to him & trying to hit ideal RPM before i hit it. Mel did the final pull so i assumed he did it "right". i'll take this shit w/ a grain of salt

[REZXPERT]

is ur car stock ?

if it was, my results would've been better:chuckle

[MPS]

u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers

[Garu]

It will interesting to see another member with MS3 on the same dyno. There are probably over 10 MS3 owners with CPE TBE very similar setup.

[REZXPERT]

u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers

u know what, Vlad, that's what i was afraid of. like i said, i'm new to the dyno scene so i just went there cuz u can't beat $30, u have to admit.
he even popped in my SRI (he saw it on my pass seat, just picked it up from Pat before i got dyno'd) for $20. despite the #'s, i left happy.

what's that place you recommend again? i'd like to go there after the upcoming tune.

[REZXPERT]

It will interesting to see another member with MS3 on the same dyno. There are probably over 10 MS3 owners with CPE TBE very similar setup.

right on. he told me i was the first MPS to get done there. if anyone's interested for comparison's sake, do it. worst case scenario, your #'s suck like mine but it was safe & kinda cool to do the pulls yourself.

[MPS]

i dont have any dyno places that i use my car never saw a dyno
i dont have the need for it i just look at other ppls dyno and there mods and i know im not far off :)


u know what, Vlad, that's what i was afraid of. like i said, i'm new to the dyno scene so i just went there cuz u can't beat $30, u have to admit.
he even popped in my SRI (he saw it on my pass seat, just picked it up from Pat before i got dyno'd) for $20. despite the #'s, i left happy.

what's that place you recommend again? i'd like to go there after the upcoming tune.

[MPS]

and also dyno is like a crack addiction
if you start you just cant stop :chuckle

[ptfire]

What is the problem with the number you got at Tag? I dynoed my last car there and I think the numbers were right on. Don't go seraching around for a dyno that is going to give you higher numbers.

[REZXPERT]

man, dynos are like bodyfat tests: my BF was 8% using one gym's machine,
six months later 22% at another gym, different machine.

moral of the story: eat cheetos if you want 8%BF.

[RX9]

the HP seems a bit low, should that be 250+ on wheel? may be you are using snows that will effect the result? an did they use huge blower pump in the air (big fan is not enough)? i remembered long time ago when i dyno my RX7 when it just swap in a 20B, the shop told me i need a better tire for more accuate numbers.

[WhiteSpeed3]

if my exhaust comes in this week i'll go for a dyno just to see wat the difference would be from the CPE exhaust

[REZXPERT]

the HP seems a bit low, should that be 250+ on wheel? may be you are using snows that will effect the result? an did they use huge blower pump in the air (big fan is not enough)? i remembered long time ago when i dyno my RX7 when it just swap in a 20B, the shop told me i need a better tire for more accuate numbers.

yeah, i was runnin on my snows but i don't see how that can make up another 20WHP. i'll head back this summer, just out of curiosity.

let me know if any of you are headin there sooner or later.

[midnightfxgt]

There is nothing wrong with the dyno... going somewhere else shouldnt make much difference (assuming Dynojet vs dynojet)

-John

[REZXPERT]

There is nothing wrong with the dyno... going somewhere else shouldnt make much difference (assuming Dynojet vs dynojet)

-John

i guess it's human nature to get your back up when the car doesn't perform to one's expectations .. esp w/ some mods & listening to mazda throw around '263HP'. my results don't bother me, the car goes:gone like any of you MPSers know, even running stock. with a few more mods, it'll reach it's potential for road-use. at that point, i'll do another dyno and take it in stride again.

it's like guys and their bench press #'s, to use another gym analogy..
(btw, i benched 275 for 3 once:bana2)

[midnightfxgt]

The numbers arent bad, but I dont agree with "u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers". Without some proof backing up that they are using a malfunctioning dyno, no one can really say.

Were the numbers listed STD or SAE corrected? That alone is generally about 4% difference. So if your numbers are SAE, you would most likely see 243WHP. Suddenly sounds better right? ;)

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

The numbers arent bad, but I dont agree with "u need to find a better dyno place
with real numbers". Without some proof backing up that they are using a malfunctioning dyno, no one can really say.

Were the numbers listed STD or SAE corrected? That alone is generally about 4% difference. So if your numbers are SAE, you would most likely see 243WHP. Suddenly sounds better right? ;)

-John

Same mods, dynojet, sae corrected from my pull in the summer so there is a difference. given avg. dyno of stock cars is about 231whp i would say this particular dyno is reading a little low IMO but for $30 it still does what they are meant for... compare gains to baseline etc.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/cndxrs/dyno001.jpg

[midnightfxgt]

I deff think his should be higher if thats what most guys are getting, but to say he should go somewhere else is hasty. Like you said, baseline is where its at. Strange to see such a high variance though.

[midnightfxgt]

UU - Stupid question, but your car was dyno'd in 4th right?

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

UU - Stupid question, but your car was dyno'd in 4th right?

-John

Yes 4th gear, closest 1:1 without insane wheel speed i think. seems to be most common so i wanted to be able to compare to others

[REZXPERT]

i smell a group dyno

[Unoriginalusername]

i smell a group dyno

:chuckle maybe interested in one once ap is in and possibly a tmic or fmic later in the spring :chuckle

[midnightfxgt]

I think I will hit the TAG dyno too. I know the previous owner of my kit hit 250WHP at 8PSi, so I should be around that.

-John

[Big Dad]

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

[Unoriginalusername]

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

The rolling mass of winters is less and so long as the diameter is the same i can't see how summers would be any better. Summers would be worse if i had to guess but not sure

[midnightfxgt]

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

Explain please! Not doubting it, since I dont know, but you have peaked my interest :)

[REZXPERT]

I am sure that your results were affected by your snow tires. The softer grooved tires definitely affect results. Go back there with your summer fronts on and I am willing to bet you make at least a minimum of 20 hp more. I have $20 to back my statement. Anybody want to bet? Furthermore, you put the intake on and then dynoed. The computer takes time to reset, learn and adjust mapping for the new intake.

Big Dad, i won't bet against you. i'm goin back w/ the summers on - whether or not it made a difference - but like UU, i'm headin back w/ the AP... as you can tell by my sig, i'm pretty high on it:chuckle

all this info helps me... & my ego. thanks guys

[Unoriginalusername]

Big Dad, i won't bet against you. i'm goin back w/ the summers on - whether or not it made a difference - but like UU, i'm headin back w/ the AP... as you can tell by my sig, i'm pretty high on it:chuckle

all this info helps me... & my ego. thanks guys

or maybe my car just makes 35 more whp then yours LOL :chuckle :gone

[RX9]

i just smoked a 300C with HEMI yesterday, lol....that guy was totally pissed.

[REZXPERT]

or maybe my car just makes 35 more whp then yours LOL :chuckle :gone

that's b/c that bottle under your seat is Nitro, me, JD's.

[Unoriginalusername]

that's b/c that bottle under your seat is Nitro, me, JD's.

no guessing at my secret mods on order :chuckle

[Big Dad]

Explain please! Not doubting it, since I dont know, but you have peaked my interest :)

I assume that you are refering to the tires.

I am basing this on my experience with motorcycle racing. The National series abides by a dyno enforced hp cap. Therefore we dyno quite a fair bit to get as close as we can to the limit without going over (we also use a dyno jet dyno). The performance (summer) tires we use are either slicks or dots that resemble slicks with a couple of minimal grooves to meet the dot standard. We also use rains (similar to winters) which are very soft and have lots of groves and tread depth. The slicks/dots connect with the drum and do not have much drive loss. The grooved rains loose traction and have drive loss due to their flexibility and constantly adjusting "footprint." Basicaly, there is something soft and mushy between the wheel and the dyno drum. Typically we see a difference of 10% loss with the rains. Some teams take advantage of this and map for more power in the rain knowing that they will still stay under the limit.

Snow tires are similar, therefore that explains my confidence in my statement.

[Unoriginalusername]

I think the weight difference of steelies would offset any difference in the compound, and honestly in 4th gear with two widder tires with an lsd i can't see it making as much difference on a car as it would on a bike

[Big Dad]

The MS3 stock wheels and tires weigh 44.5 pounds each. I do not use steele winter wheels so I do not know what they weigh, but I would assume more depending on tire size and if you went with a 16'' or 17". I smell a bet coming lol:chuckle. Let us meet up at the dyno on Saturday and find out who is right!

[RX9]

thats what i been told, use higher performence tire for the dyno and get closer reality numbers on wheel, anyway, theres only speed3 dyno done in this forum, theres really nothing to compare with. but hey, as long as we still get the power from the snail, we should be powerful enough. i should buy the AP this time.

[midnightfxgt]

Hmmmm... I was half debating bringing 2 summers and doing a before and after run for you guys. BUT... I stripped my tuner key in the fall... so screw that lol!

-John

[REZXPERT]

if we fast fwd'd a month, i'd seriously head back to Tag w/ my summers on b/c both you guys sound pretty sure of yourselves. not to undermine you both but i'm gonna give Mel @ Tag a call tomorrow and run your theories by him as he's done a tonne of dynos on all kinds of cars, street & race. i'll let you know.

[Unoriginalusername]

if we fast fwd'd a month, i'd seriously head back to Tag w/ my summers on b/c both you guys sound pretty sure of yourselves. not to undermine you both but i'm gonna give Mel @ Tag a call tomorrow and run your theories by him as he's done a tonne of dynos on all kinds of cars, street & race. i'll let you know.

cool keep us posted

[REZXPERT]

cool keep us posted

just spoke to Mel. you guys can take this for what it's worth but he agreed that the wheels would affect the results. he sounded pretty confident, no hummin n hawwin. i pressed him for some numbers and he said the weight of the wheels & tire tread can impact results by as much as 10WHP. that's significant, IMO. (fyi, SRI install before dyno wouldn't make a diff)

i'm goin back for sure w/ the summers. a few weeks before i do, i'm gonna post a Dyno Invite thread. what do you think?

[Big Dad]

Great idea, count me in. Btw, did he unhook the battery terminal to reset the ecu after mounting the intake? If not I have heard it takes at least 100km's of driving for the ECU to figure the new air fuel ratios. Was the tuner monitering the A/F ratios during the runs?

[midnightfxgt]

The Intake will take a bit to fully re-learn, as its a very adaptive ECU, and even with the tires, I cant seem to figure out why there would be a 40WHP difference between James and this car. Only way to REALLY tell is to throw them both on the dyno at the same day etc ;)

-John

[REZXPERT]

Great idea, count me in. Btw, did he unhook the battery terminal to reset the ecu after mounting the intake? If not I have heard it takes at least 100km's of driving for the ECU to figure the new air fuel ratios. Was the tuner monitering the A/F ratios during the runs?

no, he didn't unhook the battery terminal after the intake install. he was monitoring the A/F ratios though and didn't point out anything unusual.
i'll make sure to take better notes when i go back as it was my first go on dyno.

[REZXPERT]

The Intake will take a bit to fully re-learn, as its a very adaptive ECU, and even with the tires, I cant seem to figure out why there would be a 40WHP difference between James and this car. Only way to REALLY tell is to throw them both on the dyno at the same day etc ;)
-John

and that i would be down for! our cars are virtually the same. i'm sure he'll agree to it after we install our AP's this spring.

[Unoriginalusername]

and that i would be down for! our cars are virtually the same. i'm sure he'll agree to it after we install our AP's this spring.


ya for sure but i problem is i want to go back to where i have gone for the past two dyno days since i have a baseline there and you have a baseline here so that leaves somebody screwed.

[midnightfxgt]

To bad your car wasnt out now James, for $30 it would be a fun test for sure.

[Unoriginalusername]

To bad your car wasnt out now James, for $30 it would be a fun test for sure.

oh i know for $30 i'd bring it anyways just for fun... and you could help me remove those interior pieces i can't get off so that i could get them in and started so they would be done in a few weeks :chuckle

[REZXPERT]

ya for sure but i problem is i want to go back to where i have gone for the past two dyno days since i have a baseline there and you have a baseline here so that leaves somebody screwed.

yeah well F my baseline - i want a new one. where did you get dyno'd again, James?

[Unoriginalusername]

yeah well F my baseline - i want a new one. where did you get dyno'd again, James?

foresthill racing in kitchener

[REZXPERT]

foresthill racing in kitchener

ouch. i'm opting for the gas-saving map once the AP arrives:chuckle

[midnightfxgt]

James - Throw on some summers, do an oil change, and meet me Saturday. I SHOULD have a set of CF pieces (minus the steering wheel controls) by then.

I'll pay half your dyno, and cut you a deal on your CF stuff ;)

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

James - Throw on some summers, do an oil change, and meet me Saturday. I SHOULD have a set of CF pieces (minus the steering wheel controls) by then.

I'll pay half your dyno, and cut you a deal on your CF stuff ;)

-John

Oh man how i'd love to take it out but it is off insurance on a signed will not be driven until April deal... will still meet up tomorrow and if you are heading back to the 401 you can follow me back and help me pop them off lol. i can give you a $dp for the cf too

[REZXPERT]

where's my COBB lic plate frame?:chuckle

[midnightfxgt]

James - I am meeting a guy at 400/7 at 12:00.... as long as I can get there by then, I am game :)

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

James - I am meeting a guy at 400/7 at 12:00.... as long as I can get there by then, I am game :)

-John

Ok see you at 10 tomorrow

[REZXPERT]

hey John, i think James mentioned u live around Durham (?) .... James, would you mind passin over the lic frame plate so i can scoop it from John if that's the case. thanks a lot

just driving w/ one COBB frame, looks like i'm poor

[Unoriginalusername]

hey John, i think James mentioned u live around Durham (?) .... James, would you mind passin over the lic frame plate so i can scoop it from John if that's the case. thanks a lot

just driving w/ one COBB frame, looks like i'm poor

sure i'll bring it with me

[REZXPERT]

sure i'll bring it with me

thanks dude:)

[RX9]

john lived in Ajax now, hes moving to whitby end of this yr.

[ptfire]

If you take the same car on the same day and all you do is reduce the diameter of the wheels ( keeping the overall diameter the same). Even if the 17inch wheels weigh the same as the 18s, the car will dyno more with the 17s.

[midnightfxgt]

I live in Pickering, and moving to Whitby in October :)

I can grab the plate from, no probs :)

-John

[REZXPERT]

I live in Pickering, and moving to Whitby in October :)

I can grab the plate from, no probs :)

-John

sweet, thanks. PM me if you don't mind so i can swing by for a p/u, John.

(and thanks again, James)


Joseph

[REZXPERT]

FYI, stock Speed dyno'd @240whp. apparently Mazda itself dyno'd a stock Speed3 @241whp. accurate or not, i'm disowning my results till the guys @COBB invite me for a dyno&tune this summer.

huge thread..

http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=61115.0

[midnightfxgt]

I pulled a 228WHP yesterday on the TAG dyno (SAE corrected) which is right on par with yours almost (your torque numbers were higher than mine).

I would think the dyno does read lower than most. Almost everyone with the Hiboost kit who dynos, hits 250WHP on a stock exhaust. So I would think I am around 260-265 with a catback and race pipe.

Rexexpert - We should sooooo hit a dyno out here for fun. I can call aorund. Usually around $100/hour, and if we split it, its only $50 :)

-John

[REZXPERT]

I pulled a 228WHP yesterday on the TAG dyno (SAE corrected) which is right on par with yours almost (your torque numbers were higher than mine).

I would think the dyno does read lower than most. Almost everyone with the Hiboost kit who dynos, hits 250WHP on a stock exhaust. So I would think I am around 260-265 with a catback and race pipe.

Rexexpert - We should sooooo hit a dyno out here for fun. I can call aorund. Usually around $100/hour, and if we split it, its only $50 :)

-John

man, those are some impressive #'s on your part. how many pulls did you do? as for dyno'ing out here, yeah man i'm game:) make some calls & let me know. i'd like to dyno w/ the summers on next time so let's do this when spring hits ('in the middle of a move now so the car takes a backseat for a few weeks). keep me posted on some shops in Durham.

Joseph

[midnightfxgt]

For sure man.... if I can find a local spot cheap enough, I will hit them up myself then, and maybe organize a big dyno day for TM3 and some buddies of mine in spring :)

Thanks for the compliments, but I thought I should be doing more than 230WHP range. I am hoping for 250-260 on another dyno.... so knowing I am in range of a Modded Speed3 is nice :)

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

For sure man.... if I can find a local spot cheap enough, I will hit them up myself then, and maybe organize a big dyno day for TM3 and some buddies of mine in spring :)

Thanks for the compliments, but I thought I should be doing more than 230WHP range. I am hoping for 250-260 on another dyno.... so knowing I am in range of a Modded Speed3 is nice :)

-John

x2 to be within 5hp and 20tq. to a modded ms3 is great, and you're car might be lighter since mazda added a bunch of heavy stuff that increased the curb weight throughout the car. yours would be stock + turbo kit so it should have a weight advantage too (and no boost cut)

[midnightfxgt]

In a dead race, I think the lack of boost cut would help me out where the higher TQ numbers on the speed3 would even it out a bit... I need to dyno again lol.

[Unoriginalusername]

In a dead race, I think the lack of boost cut would help me out where the higher TQ numbers on the speed3 would even it out a bit... I need to dyno again lol.

whitespeed3 just posted his pull from that place in KW FYI if you wanted to see a bit of the shop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnlNyngbk6E

[midnightfxgt]

I may call them today, but I doubt they will give me a few cheaper pulls... who knows, this time of year is probably slower for them ;)

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

I may call them today, but I doubt they will give me a few cheaper pulls... who knows, this time of year is probably slower for them ;)

-John

i wouldn't count on it lol... i plan on going back later this spring once ap and any other power toys are on to compare

[WhiteSpeed3]

james see if u can set up a day like the last 1 im pretty sure we can get 10 guys to go

[REZXPERT]

i wouldn't count on it lol... i plan on going back later this spring once ap and any other power toys are on to compare

that was supposed to be a secret for the next dyno. thanks a lot, James:complain

[Unoriginalusername]

that was supposed to be a secret for the next dyno. thanks a lot, James:complain

cobb is no secret lol

[REZXPERT]

cobb is no secret lol

i was hoping my avatar would be mistaken for a pacemaker

[Unoriginalusername]

i was hoping my avatar would be mistaken for a pacemaker

hahaha