Mazdaspeed 3, GTI and SI Dynos...

[monty0501]

Hey everyone, I was looking for painted pics of the sideskirts SSG sells and came across this:

http://forums.clubsi.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=554420

I dont know too much about dynos and all that, but is interesting.

Anyone have pics of the sideskirts painted :)

Thanks.
Monty

[Kevin@nextmod]

a few guys in the states with a stock SI came to 184WHP. Race header, catback and intake pulls it up to 205WHP.

[RX9]

turbo, turbo FTW. wander if SI has a turbo bolt on, ooow.

[Kevin@nextmod]

yea.... its good that N/A SI lost less HP then both turbo cars.

[REZXPERT]

a few guys in the states with a stock SI came to 184WHP. Race header, catback and intake pulls it up to 205WHP.

until dynos are standardized or regulated, i wouldn't take those #'s very seriously (or maybe that's just sour grapes on my part:chuckle)

[Unoriginalusername]

supper old article... they had the traction control on and no air on the tmic which is why the results are lower IMO

[Garu]

I like the comparison that one of the member did.

Si>GTI>Mazduuhhh

[REZXPERT]

I like the comparison that one of the member did.

Si>GTI>Mazduuhhh

i pulled up to an R8 on the 407 yesterday. took a vid, tempted to egg him on but thought otherwise.

just curious, what would win head-to-head: GT-R or R8? i wonder if there's an article out there on this.

[Garu]

i pulled up to an R8 on the 407 yesterday. took a vid, tempted to egg him on but thought otherwise.

just curious, what would win head-to-head: GT-R or R8? i wonder if there's an article out there on this.

Hahaa... so.... you have eggs readily on your passenger seat eh?

I'm guessing GT-R would have advantage from the launch and R8 would have advantage on the roll. But who knows... GT-R has twin turbo afterall...

[Unoriginalusername]

Hahaa... so.... you have eggs readily on your passenger seat eh?

I'm guessing GT-R would have advantage from the launch and R8 would have advantage on the roll. But who knows... GT-R has twin turbo afterall...

and 80 more hp... i'd take the r8 though

[Garu]

Isn't R8 substantially lighter than GT-R?

[REZXPERT]

http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2008/02/stories/07/3.html

[Unoriginalusername]

Isn't R8 substantially lighter than GT-R?

r8 (3439lbs)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8

GTR (3858)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_GT-R

[REZXPERT]

r8 (3439lbs)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R8

GTR (3858)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_GT-R

if anyone's interested in buying hard copy encyclopedia, PM me. the door-to-door gig didn't pan out.

[alhope34]

...Why does it seem like all civic enthusiasts always think they are hot stuff, and that their car is better than everyone else's? I love meeting newest gen SI owners at a light and blowing the doors off them.

[REZXPERT]

...Why does it seem like all civic enthusiasts always think they are hot stuff, and that their car is better than everyone else's? I love meeting newest gen SI owners at a light and blowing the doors off them.

SPS aka SmallPenisSyndrome

[RX9]

There you go, TW FG2 has Honda now.:chuckle

[REZXPERT]

There you go, TW FG2 has Honda now.:chuckle

hey man, i owned a Honda too ... but then i grew up:chuckle

jk, Honda owners are ok for the most part.

[Kevin@nextmod]

...Why does it seem like all civic enthusiasts always think they are hot stuff, and that their car is better than everyone else's? I love meeting newest gen SI owners at a light and blowing the doors off them.

How can you compare your speed3 to a civic si? its not even considered in the same class. Its like would you take a STI out for a run with your car? I would love to see your car get smoked by one.

Turbo cars are to be compared to turbo cars. I see people running turbo kits on my car at 8 PSI pulling 280 to the wheels. You're running 16 to get 260 at the crank.

The SI is priced almost $5k under the speed3 and for that price IMO 60hp less is reasonable to me. And if with my price and having 260hp to the crank then the speed 3 is over charging.

If you want a good run, then rip your turbo out and we'll talk.

I'm in no means to challenge any speed 3 owners here (because my car is obviously slower). I love the speed 3, there fast, well made, and reasonably priced but i didn't go for a speed 3 is becase i want a change and wanted to try a honda. I'm also just stating how the N/A honda WHP loss is less then the F/I cars.

[Unoriginalusername]

How can you compare your speed3 to a civic si? its not even considered in the same class. Its like would you take a STI out for a run with your car? I would love to see your car get smoked by one.

Turbo cars are to be compared to turbo cars. I see people running turbo kits on my car at 8 PSI pulling 280 to the wheels. You're running 16 to get 260 at the crank.

If you want a good run, then rip your turbo out and we'll talk.

I ran an STI and walked it, not sure what your point it is other then saying your a honda fanboy :chuckle I went from 231/241whp/tq to 275/294 with a cai and tbe and have more on the way with the Cobb AP

A civic block can't take much more then 8psi with its compression ratio so it has to use a turbo with psi/flow characteristics that it can work with... and while it might get 280whp you are looking at just 210-230lbs of tq. yippie. you blew your warranty, spent a fortune more then a speed and will still get walked :bana

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/cndxrs/dyno001.jpg

[alhope34]

Haha, since when did I compare them? I just find it funny how most newest gen SI owners think their car is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I wasn't taking an attack at you, either, but from your reply you probably think I did. You talk about HP, lets talk about torque. My dad's old '02 Saturn LW200 wagon with the 2.2L i4 had more torque than the SI engines have. There is a saying said in the racing community, "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." What good is a 400hp engine if it has 100ft-lbs of torque?

[Kevin@nextmod]

I ran an STI and walked it, not sure what your point it is other then saying your a honda fanboy :chuckle I went from 231/241whp/tq to 275/294 with a cai and tbe and have more on the way with the Cobb AP

A civic block can't take much more then 8psi with its compression ratio so it has to use a turbo with psi/flow characteristics that it can work with... and while it might get 280whp you are looking at just 210-230lbs of tq. yippie. you blew your warranty, spent a fortune more then a speed and will still get walked :bana

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v252/cndxrs/dyno001.jpg
But the point is we're comparing stock cars in the article. I know simply bolt ons in a turbo car will give tremendous gains compared to the weak 4 bangers.

Yes the warranty is gone in the civic but you really think they can only hold 8 psi? (that i don't know either :) ) BUt i have seen another one with 10 psi and his car is still running (god knows what happens later) AND what makes you think your engine will hold 16 psi in the long run? no ones been driving your car long enough to say.

[Kevin@nextmod]

Haha, since when did I compare them? I just find it funny how most newest gen SI owners think their car is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I wasn't taking an attack at you, either, but from your reply you probably think I did. You talk about HP, lets talk about torque. My dad's old '02 Saturn LW200 wagon with the 2.2L i4 had more torque than the SI engines have. There is a saying said in the racing community, "Horsepower sells cars, torque wins races." What good is a 400hp engine if it has 100ft-lbs of torque?
I know the SI is really lack in torque, in fact all high compression honda engines are lack of torque. I know it sucks because of daily driving my car hardly moves under 3k rpm. I know people always say, by the time your car hits vtec the opponent is gone. I actually agree with that but i'm just saying how the hp loss is less in an N/A car then both F/I cars.

I totaly respect all turbo cars because thats the way it should be if you want a fast car. To be honest, i always wanted an STI but just can't afford to get one.

[Unoriginalusername]

But the point is we're comparing stock cars in the article. I know simply bolt ons in a turbo car will give tremendous gains compared to the weak 4 bangers.

Yes the warranty is gone in the civic but you really think they can only hold 8 psi? (that i don't know either :) ) BUt i have seen another one with 10 psi and his car is still running (god knows what happens later) AND what makes you think your engine will hold 16 psi in the long run? no ones been driving your car long enough to say.

Well it comes with a warranty and nearly 16psi from the factory so its not my problem if something does go wrong :chuckle

Ok stock to stock comparision then... they are the same segment and nearly the same price unlike the STI which you mentioned which is a 15,000 price premium.

[Kevin@nextmod]

Another thing is, i can't really support my own car because i've 'only been driving this thing for 2 months and i haven't driven enough cars to compare any thing.

[Kevin@nextmod]

Well it comes with a warranty and nearly 16psi from the factory so its not my problem if something does go wrong :chuckle

Ok stock to stock comparision then... they are the same segment and nearly the same price unlike the STI which you mentioned which is a 15,000 price premium.
Yes the STI is an extreme comparison but the speed is $5k more then the SI. If they were the same or maybe 1-2k difference then no doubt everyone will pick up a speed3.

[Kevin@nextmod]

You should actually compare the GTI to the speed3 as they are priced the same but a lot slower. I'm even suprised the GTI lost so much hp. The best feature that the speed3 got that i'm jeaous about is the climate control.

And i know i'll never win trying to argue in a mazda 3 forum. LOL.... its like mazda guys will never win in a civic forum.

[alhope34]

I always see an old man driving a black GTI around my area that always tries to race me. I never go for it, too many cops around my area, and I rarely go faster than the limit when I take off fast, anyway.

[Kevin@nextmod]

I always see an old man driving a black GTI around my area that always tries to race me. I never go for it, too many cops around my area, and I rarely go faster than the limit when I take off fast, anyway.

Theres no point unless his car is chipped and your car is stock, otherwise its a waste of gas and he's trying to prove himself an idiot

[Unoriginalusername]

Yes the STI is an extreme comparison but the speed is $5k more then the SI. If they were the same or maybe 1-2k difference then no doubt everyone will pick up a speed3.

The SI starts less with less options yes that is true.. add a few common options that come stock on the speed3 and...
Aero Kit Package - Si
Interior Trim Kit..
Leather Steering Wheel Cover
18" Alloy Wheel.
Fog Lights
Price before taxes: 32,961.73

Seems to be in the 30k price range of the speed3 to me, they are a competitive car segment, price, auidience wise... just because it is so under powered by hondas choice doesn't exclude it from the group of cars competing for the same group of buyers

[alhope34]

Theres no point unless his car is chipped and your car is stock, otherwise its a waste of gas and he's trying to prove himself an idiot


Which is why I never go for it heh. I always take off kinda fast, anyway. If I wanted to save gas, I would have gotten a Yaris.

[alhope34]

The SI starts less with less options yes that is true.. add a few common options that come stock on the speed3 and...
Aero Kit Package - Si
Interior Trim Kit..
Leather Steering Wheel Cover
18" Alloy Wheel.
Fog Lights
Price before taxes: 32,961.73

Seems to be in the 30k price range of the speed3 to me, they are a competitive car segment, price, auidience wise... just because it is so under powered by hondas choice doesn't exclude it from the group of cars competing for the same group of buyers


Not to mention, at least for me, I get a huge insurance break because the company I'm with classes the MS3 as a station wagon. They say all station wagons get "family car status" no matter what engine/power it comes with. With an SI, you'd also be paying the 2-door insurance premium. My insurance was $80 a month more on my '94 Probe GT than my '08 MS3

[Kevin@nextmod]

The SI starts less with less options yes that is true.. add a few common options that come stock on the speed3 and...
Aero Kit Package - Si
Interior Trim Kit..
Leather Steering Wheel Cover
18" Alloy Wheel.
Fog Lights
Price before taxes: 32,961.73

Seems to be in the 30k price range of the speed3 to me, they are a competitive car segment, price, auidience wise... just because it is so under powered by hondas choice doesn't exclude it from the group of cars competing for the same group of buyers
Those are all options. how can you add all those and then compare it to the speed 3?

the whole point about this talk is the hp loss between the cars. I do'nt think those options will add any hp to my car. So base MSRP should be what you should be using. You can only say your speed 3 comes with more standard features then the SI.

I know those options are expensive because with my aero kit and fogs it came up to the same price as the speed 3 but the point is i've driven a 3 and the speed 3 looks too much the same and i want to try the 8k rpm redline

[Kevin@nextmod]

Not to mention, at least for me, I get a huge insurance break because the company I'm with classes the MS3 as a station wagon. They say all station wagons get "family car status" no matter what engine/power it comes with. With an SI, you'd also be paying the 2-door insurance premium. My insurance was $80 a month more on my '94 Probe GT than my '08 MS3

That just depends on people. I'm 23 and i'm only payng $2100 (2door) and if its 4 door its $1900 for first driver. I got quoted for the speed 3 and was $105 more then my 2 door SI.

[alhope34]

I'm 21 and paying $300 a month for my MS3. Full coverage, my mom is first and I'm second, but I'm still fully insured. $300 I pay for both of us together. My Probe, I was only insured for 3rd party and 5000kms a year. Paid $380 a month with the same company on the same mom first, me second setup. When I was looking at an '08 Yaris RS with the exact same insurance coverage as I got for the MS3, I was quoted $320 a month. $20 a month more on a Yaris RS than the MS3. Aparantly the Yaris RS is considered a "sport hatch".

[Unoriginalusername]

Those are all options. how can you add all those and then compare it to the speed 3?

the whole point about this talk is the hp loss between the cars. I do'nt think those options will add any hp to my car. So base MSRP should be what you should be using. You can only say your speed 3 comes with more standard features then the SI.

I know those options are expensive because with my aero kit and fogs it came up to the same price as the speed 3 but the point is i've driven a 3 and the speed 3 looks too much the same and i want to try the 8k rpm redline

So wait your argument is that you want 18" wheels and fog lights but because you have to pay extra for options versus getting them as part of a standard package that is somehow not as good lol?

If we are playing that way then at the end of each year there are $4k rebates on last years speed models so now it is the same price as the base SI with all the extra options that you'd have to pay $5000 more for on a civic :chuckle

[Kevin@nextmod]

So wait your argument is that you want 18" wheels and fog lights but because you have to pay extra for options versus getting them as part of a standard package that is somehow not as good lol?

If we are playing that way then at the end of each year there are $4k rebates on last years speed models so now it is the same price as the base SI with all the extra options that you'd have to pay $5000 more for on a civic :chuckle
Now that i can't fight with you about. Because there are no last year models out there to buy. Because they're limited production, unless you don't mind no color choice.

[Unoriginalusername]

Now that i can't fight with you about. Because there are no last year models out there to buy. Because they're limited production, unless you don't mind no color choice.

Limited production is another advantage of the speed3, there are 500 in canada each year. Can't say that about the SI, if you want the same exclusivity you have to buy the Mugan which costs more then the speed and is still slower :chuckle

[mleblond]

I Got my last years model less than a month ago ;) just the color I wanted too!

Guess your gonna have to Wait until next year!

[REZXPERT]

damn, where's that Mazda screws Honda GIF when you need it??

[FLIPDADY]

Alright back on topic bitches!

or

I'll void all your warranties!:chuckle

Except for you Kev, but I do know people at Honda head office too.:)

[Garu]

But we ARE on topic, Joe... :chuckle

Let's search for that GIF togther REZX. :chuckle:chuckle


damn, where's that Mazda screws Honda GIF when you need it??

[REZXPERT]

But we ARE on topic, Joe... :chuckle

Let's search for that GIF togther REZX. :chuckle:chuckle

someone on this forum owns that avatar:chuckle. this thread would've been a good time for him to make an appearance.

and mods always like to try & spoil the fun:complain

[stevenlung]

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/honda1.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/hmhump.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/thmazdahondahumping-complete1-1.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/av-12.gif

[Unoriginalusername]

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/honda1.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/hmhump.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/thmazdahondahumping-complete1-1.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/av-12.gif

awesome

[RX9]

poor NISSAN.lol......

[REZXPERT]

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/honda1.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/hmhump.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/thmazdahondahumping-complete1-1.gif
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff31/stevenlung/av-12.gif

THANK YOU!:)

[Garu]

poor NISSAN.lol......

That's VTAK powaaah for ya.

[Kevin@nextmod]

realize how slow the mazda's are? lol...j/k

[FLIPDADY]

Hey no car porn!

[WLS ZMZM]

by all means... I'm a mazda boy now.. but I still have my civic... the speed 3 is something to be proud of but.. the old mazdaspeed protege is not something to be proud of... got spanked by SiR's and 170 hp turbo isn't something to be mouthing off about especially out of a 2.0 turbo, Vs. an SiR that was a 1.6L vtec.. or have all you speed 3 owners forgot about hte past? I'm not here to trash talk mazda.. cuz I don't really drive my honda anymore.. over the whole fast N the furious and dont appreciate being harassed by the 5-0 just felt someone needed to help out the poor guy, from getting tag teamed. Besides mazda owners tend to be a little more mature :p

[oneurt]

I always see an old man driving a black GTI around my area that always tries to race me. I never go for it, too many cops around my area, and I rarely go faster than the limit when I take off fast, anyway.

Hmm funny thing about black GTIs I always get a black GTI flying by me when I drive. Been tempted to drop a gear and see why he's gotta be Mario Andretti on the streets.

My friend owns a GTI and spends his time on the VW boards and he says the GTI guys trash the MS3 just like the Honda guys are on the SI forum. So it happens every where so I just ignore it. Most of those guys haven't even been in the MS3 I hate going by numbers its all about the first hand experience.

But back to the GTIs my friend has straight up admitted to me saying that my MS3 is still loads faster than his GTI even with the mods he has on his car. I can still admit that his car is quick though either way respect to both of them.

As for those SI guys who cares what they think. Let them bitch and complain cause at the end of the day the MS3 can do everything the SI can do.

One guy did complain about the MS3's 18" wheels.... what's wrong with 18s? Its big well duh its a 5 door hatch but hey it still handles awesome so sheez. Has plenty of power and makes a comfy road trip car.

[Kevin@nextmod]

As for those SI guys who cares what they think. Let them bitch and complain cause at the end of the day the MS3 can do everything the SI can do.


Everything? you really think so? Wheres the 8000rpm redline? Wheres the wide fenders to fit 8 inch wheels with 38 offset? In the end, all 3 cars are different in there own and its very hard to compare both of them at the same time.

Not really bitching but be careful of what you say when you say Everything.

[Unoriginalusername]

Everything? you really think so? Wheres the 8000rpm redline? Wheres the wide fenders to fit 8 inch wheels with 38 offset? In the end, all 3 cars are different in there own and its very hard to compare both of them at the same time.

Not really bitching but be careful of what you say when you say Everything.

hey now you are flipping back to the accesory list that you said we can't compare since it makes the SI more expensive then a speed3, so in that case the stock si comes with P215/45 R17 all season tires :chuckle

[oneurt]

Everything? you really think so? Wheres the 8000rpm redline? Wheres the wide fenders to fit 8 inch wheels with 38 offset? In the end, all 3 cars are different in there own and its very hard to compare both of them at the same time.

Not really bitching but be careful of what you say when you say Everything.

How about their on track ability, is that fair?
I've had the 8K redline before its not as hyped up as some people think, but that is my opinion so lets not start an argument about it as its irrelevant. 8 inc wheels with that offset unfortunately no, but hey it can still fit 8 inch wheels.

[Kevin@nextmod]

How about their on track ability, is that fair?
I've had the 8K redline before its not as hyped up as some people think, but that is my opinion so lets not start an argument about it as its irrelevant. 8 inc wheels with that offset unfortunately no, but hey it can still fit 8 inch wheels.

I guess we'll need a lap time between these 2 cars.

[Kevin@nextmod]

hey now you are flipping back to the accesory list that you said we can't compare since it makes the SI more expensive then a speed3, so in that case the stock si comes with P215/45 R17 all season tires :chuckle
But i think my tires cost more. At regular price on tire rack, its $219/tire
RE050A regular price on tirerack is $197/tire. :)

[Unoriginalusername]

I guess we'll need a lap time between these 2 cars.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml
The type R which is faster then the north american version

Mazda 3 MPS 1.32.0
Vauxhaull Astra VXR 1.32.0
VW Golf Edition 30 1.32.6
Ford Focus ST 1.33.5
Seat Leon Cupra 1.33.5
Honda Civic Type R 1.34.3

[JashiK]

endless battles...

[Kevin@nextmod]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml
The type R which is faster then the north american version

Mazda 3 MPS 1.32.0
Vauxhaull Astra VXR 1.32.0
VW Golf Edition 30 1.32.6
Ford Focus ST 1.33.5
Seat Leon Cupra 1.33.5
Honda Civic Type R 1.34.3
Is that type R the european one? cause the suspension is different and that car sucks.

[Unoriginalusername]

Is that type R the european one? cause the suspension is different and that car sucks.

the gap only widens with the norh american spec cars:
http://www.motortrend.com/features/112_0706_americas_best_handling_car/laguna_seca.html

Honda Civic Si
Best lap (min:sec): 1:54.990
70.1 mph avg

Mazdaspeed3 GT
Best lap (min:sec): 1:50.375
73.0 mph avg

[JashiK]

Is that type R the european one? cause the suspension is different and that car sucks.

tru... and the FD2 (JDM and Malaysia) has more hp and tq than the FN2 (Europe).

[ptfire]

There is something wrong with the dyno numbers of the MS3. HP is always equal to torque at 5252rpm.

[chinsterr]

If its not AWD or RWD , it sucks.

Problem solved .

:chuckle

[oneurt]

If its not AWD or RWD , it sucks.

Problem solved .

:chuckle

I love my bros s14 so fun to drive.