MS3 Turbo upgrade discussion

[Unoriginalusername]

So Pat plants wickedly evil seeds in ones mind :chuckle and so i have been thinking about the 2871R (400 crank hp, 20-21psi) turbo.

How does the 28, 30 compare in size and breathability to the oem snail? Second i still don't get how it adds power without screwing up af ratios but i keep hearing and reading information saying the same thing below.

So it sounds like one could be added and not require tunning, or a fuel pump and there would still be a 30whp plus gain from the turbo flowing characteristics alone?


http://www.turborx7.com/turboinfo.html

A hefty flow of (relatively) cold, dense air is the aim with a turbo. Generally the bigger the turbo the easier this is. This is because the larger turbo is a more efficient compressor of air at the sort of values we are looking at (say approx 7 - 30 psi, which is approx 0.5 to 2 bar). The shaft of a turbo spins very fast (typically > 100,000 rpm), and the bigger turbo's shaft can spin slower to flow the same amount of air.

It's a widely believed myth about turbo sizing that (say) 15 psi on one turbo is 'equal' to 15 psi on another. This isn't true. A large turbo will be able to flow a lot more air than a smaller one at any given pressure. And it's amount of air that counts.


pats thread
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=20636&highlight=atp+turbo

[CanadaGTO]

sounds weird huh :) But it's true. Best way I've heard it described is thinking of a straw and a garden hose. If you put 15psi of pressure into both, the garden hose will push a lot more air, but they still have 15psi.

As far as tuning goes, it's best to get tuning done if you want to pull the full potential out of the Turbo.

[Unoriginalusername]

sounds weird huh :) But it's true. Best way I've heard it described is thinking of a straw and a garden hose. If you put 15psi of pressure into both, the garden hose will push a lot more air, but they still have 15psi.

As far as tuning goes, it's best to get tuning done if you want to pull the full potential out of the Turbo.

but can run without tunning or a fuel pump and get 30+ whp safe and sound is what it sounds like?

[CanadaGTO]

Fuel is always the key, which is what is mainly tuned during a professional tuning session.... Fueling is not completely figured out on the MS3 as of yet, but the upgraded fuel pumps should be a good start, which is why I've got one coming in this week :)

[Unoriginalusername]

man wish more us people were installing this to make the decision a no brainer... i mean the smallest one is around the same price or not to much more then a TBE and gives the same or more power as bolt on with more upside with tunning. sounds interesting for sure

[sudz]

Bigger turbo = more airflow at higher RPMS, More Top-end Power, worse turbo Lag

Smaller turbo = Not as much High RPM Power (as trubo struggles to keep pressure up. Better lower end torque

Think of it like this.... You can fill a canister full of 15 PSI with a hand pump... BUt it'll take a while, and if someone on the other is using it, good luck keeping up. HOWEVER, using a 2 HP compressor motor (big turbo) and you can keep up with whats coming out of the other end :-P

[SP33D 3]

i want the GT3071R :) definitly getting a fuel pump and upgraded intercooler first though

[Unoriginalusername]

how much size difference is there in the 28 vs. 30?

[theurgy]

Fuel Pump: http://www.cp-e.com/2111.html

[alhope34]

i mean the smallest one is around the same price or not to much more then a TBE and gives the same or more power as bolt on with more upside with tunning. sounds interesting for sure

Also have warranty to consider. If you have the money not to care about the warranty, then go for the big turbo, I'd be all over it if that were the case for me. I paid $1800 plus taxes and finance interest on the 6 year extended, so I'd rather take the exhaust. For now...:) Though by the way my finances are looking I'd only be able to afford the exhaust near the end of the summer, anyway.

[Unoriginalusername]

Also have warranty to consider. If you have the money not to care about the warranty, then go for the big turbo, I'd be all over it if that were the case for me. I paid $1800 plus taxes and finance interest on the 6 year extended, so I'd rather take the exhaust. For now...:) Though by the way my finances are looking I'd only be able to afford the exhaust near the end of the summer, anyway.

your warranty can get tossed for a motor mount if the dealer wants to be anal, so don't think for a second that TBEs and non MS CAI's are all good with 100% of the dealers from a warranty perspective

[alhope34]

I just meant that with a larger turbo you have a much higher chance of losing the warranty. USUALLY for intakes and exhausts systems dealers will look the other way. USUALLY...

[mkfc]

does that mean that there is less turbo lag with smaller turbos?

[sudz]

Correct. Espically if you use a double ball bearing one. The sleeve bearings tend to last longer (i think) but have a bit more friction (15%???) I read up on it once... i contemplated it on my moms camry... *blushes* Foolish teenage years....

[mkfc]

what are most people upgrading too from the stock ms turbo? garret?

[SP33D 3]

Also have warranty to consider. If you have the money not to care about the warranty, then go for the big turbo, I'd be all over it if that were the case for me. I paid $1800 plus taxes and finance interest on the 6 year extended, so I'd rather take the exhaust. For now...:) Though by the way my finances are looking I'd only be able to afford the exhaust near the end of the summer, anyway.

just like what UU said, any mods increase the chance of voiding warranty... turbo, cai, springs, rims, motor mount, etc. that means anything, any mods can push them over the edge if the repair is too much for them to care if you return or not... its a business first which is the way it should be since thats how you run a successful business