Battery/Alternator problem?

[S.F.W.]

Let me preface this situation by stating, My car is a 2004 Sedan, with 81,000KM on the car. Currently covered by Mazda Added Protection warranty.
I do have after market sound equipment in my car. I currently have:
1 JL 300/4 amp
1 JL 250/1 amp
1 JL 10W3v2 sub
4 JL door speakers

This setup has been running fine for approximately 2 years since I had everything installed.
Last Sunday March 30th, while driving I noticed the battery light come on. Didn't know what it was, but figured I would look when I got home. When I got home 30 minutes or so later, the light was off.
On Monday March 31st, battery light came back on, and stayed on.
Tuesday April 1, took the car to my dealer(who I've been very happy with for 4 years). They told me an hour later, that the battery light is not on any longer, but they checked the battery, and alternator. Both are working fine.
Wednesday April 2nd, battery light came back on and stayed on.
Thursday April 3rd, battery light still on, so I took the car to the dealer(same as previous). They looked at the car, and a few hours later called and said the alternator is being strained by the after market sound system. There is nothing wrong with the battery or alternator, but the battery light will stay on.
I wasn't happy with this explanation as everything has been running fine for a long time now. However, I decided it would be best looked at by a third party mechanic, to tell me if I needed a new/upgraded battery or alternator.
April 3rd, on the way back to my office from MoT, while in the parking garage, the ABS light comes on in the car, and all the electronics shut off.
I had to run to a meeting, so I could not deal with the situation at the time.
April 3rd evening approximately 11pm, I returned to my car. Turned the car on, battery light still on, but everything is working. I begin to drive home, and about 10 minutes into the drive, the ABS light comes on. Followed by the power steering light, ABS light, and airbag light. I pull into a gas station and call Mazda Roadside. While waiting for roadside I test to see if the engine will turn on. Crank the engine, and it comes to life....for about 40 seconds, before all the lights go on, and the electronics shut off.
I had roadside tow the car to the dealer.

So, any ideas?


UPDATE -
got a call from the dealer, need a new alternator, and a new battery. Alternator is being covered under warranty, battery is not. Decided to have the dealer replace the battery, $88, plus labour, around $120.

[Flagrum_3]

Let me preface this situation by stating, My car is a 2004 Sedan, with 81,000KM on the car. Currently covered by Mazda Added Protection warranty.
I do have after market sound equipment in my car. I currently have:
1 JL 300/4 amp
1 JL 250/1 amp
1 JL 10W3v2 sub
4 JL door speakers

This setup has been running fine for approximately 2 years since I had everything installed.
Last Sunday March 30th, while driving I noticed the battery light come on. Didn't know what it was, but figured I would look when I got home. When I got home 30 minutes or so later, the light was off.
On Monday March 31st, battery light came back on, and stayed on.
Tuesday April 1, took the car to my dealer(who I've been very happy with for 4 years). They told me an hour later, that the battery light is not on any longer, but they checked the battery, and alternator. Both are working fine.
Wednesday April 2nd, battery light came back on and stayed on.
Thursday April 3rd, battery light still on, so I took the car to the dealer(same as previous). They looked at the car, and a few hours later called and said the alternator is being strained by the after market sound system. There is nothing wrong with the battery or alternator, but the battery light will stay on.
I wasn't happy with this explanation as everything has been running fine for a long time now. However, I decided it would be best looked at by a third party mechanic, to tell me if I needed a new/upgraded battery or alternator.
April 3rd, on the way back to my office from MoT, while in the parking garage, the ABS light comes on in the car, and all the electronics shut off.
I had to run to a meeting, so I could not deal with the situation at the time.
April 3rd evening approximately 11pm, I returned to my car. Turned the car on, battery light still on, but everything is working. I begin to drive home, and about 10 minutes into the drive, the ABS light comes on. Followed by the power steering light, ABS light, and airbag light. I pull into a gas station and call Mazda Roadside. While waiting for roadside I test to see if the engine will turn on. Crank the engine, and it comes to life....for about 40 seconds, before all the lights go on, and the electronics shut off.
I had roadside tow the car to the dealer.

So, any ideas?

Bad ground somewhere? -Intermittent problem!
Voltage regulator could be toast, or a problem with a main relay are things that come to mind...Did you have the shock sensor recall done recently?


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[S.F.W.]

Bad ground somewhere? -Intermittent problem!
Voltage regulator could be toast, or a problem with a main relay are things that come to mind...Did you have the shock sensor recall done recently?


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I checked all the connections, and so did the CAA tow guy last night. Yes, I had the shock sensor upgrade done about 3 weeks ago.

[S.F.W.]

updated first post

[FLIPDADY]

Maybe an Optima battery will be your best option Ami. The Mazda alternator and factory battery were probably on it's last legs.

[Flagrum_3]

I find it quite odd that the battery and especially the alternator would be toast already!! Do you run the system alot with the engine off maybe? I've had my system the same period and so far no problems! (knocks on wood).
I'm also wondering how the dealer completely missed it the first time?:loco


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[Walrus]

Everyone mistakenly thinks adding an amp or two puts a huge strain on the alternator. It doesn't. You would have to be running several high current amps at full blast to start straining the stock system. With your setup, even with the system turned up, there are only quick peaks of current drain... but when you average it out it doesn't add up to much.

I was running 3 amps in my previous car, and at parties could run the system for hours and the car would start up fine.. wasn't even coming close to draining the battery.

[Flagrum_3]

Everyone mistakenly thinks adding an amp or two puts a huge strain on the alternator. It doesn't. You would have to be running several high current amps at full blast to start straining the stock system. With your setup, even with the system turned up, there are only quick peaks of current drain... but when you average it out it doesn't add up to much.

I was running 3 amps in my previous car, and at parties could run the system for hours and the car would start up fine.. wasn't even coming close to draining the battery.

Maybe it didn't drain the battery completely, (running for hours) that is, but I'll bet you it put quite a strain on your alternator charging it up again, (each time) you drained it.
If your engine is running, an audio system would put very little strain on the electrical system but once you shut that motor off, the audio system is running straight from the battery and you can't tell anyone here that running a system for hours will not drain a battery....we're not novices.


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[S.F.W.]

I rarely if ever run the system with the engine off.

[Fobio]

I had a competition sound system in my SVT Contour. Perfect system...costed about 2/3 of the car, done by Kennedy Hi-Fi, so the work and quality was prime.

Same thing started to happen to me...intermittent elecrical on and off...blah blah...after getting stranded, I pick-up an optima yellow-top. (this was after 6 months of driving around with CDN Tire charger...great piece of weight to keep the car from flying off the ground)

a yr and a half later, the optima died too...I'm no elctrical expert, but I've read quite a bit on the subject:

1. A car on light load (idle or highway cruising) will not produce enough juice to charge the battery.

2. Stock alternators, tho fine on 80% of situations will have problems once the steady state draw on it exceeds spec. by upgrading the battery with a hi-cap one, I increased the steady state draw on the alternator.

3. As the problem persists, either the battery or alternator or worse, both will evetually fail...1 or 2 shitting amps is one thing...going for a 2hr drive with the stereo cranked and shutting the car off once you're there is something else...I went to school in Waterloo with the SVT...great battery draining drives...

4. A capacitor would help, for the short term.

5. If you're serious about your stereo and your car, upgrade the battery and the alternator.

Essentially, when you're constantly draining the battery, you're really just using it as a intermediary between the alternator and your system...not how batteries are supposed to work...

[Jetmech]

If you are any good with an electrical meter and the car is idling measure the dc voltage at the battery posts. You should have about 13.5 - 14 vdc on the meter if your alternator is ny good. A friend at work has a 02 protege and explained the same lights of abs coming on and then the battery light and then some more idiot lights and when we checked the voltage at the posts it was reading 12.5 vdc. Under eng rev it creep up to 12.8 vdc. The battery was slowly being drained and the alternator wasn't meeting the demand so eventually the electrical system was shutting down.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

Currently covered by Mazda Added Protection warranty. ~~

got a call from the dealer, need a new alternator, and a new battery. Alternator is being covered under warranty, battery is not. Decided to have the dealer replace the battery, $88, plus labour, around $120.

The alternator is around the $500 mark IIRC... gotta be glad you have the M.A.P.

:)

[Flagrum_3]

I rarely if ever run the system with the engine off.

Well that makes it even more weird! Maybe you just had a bad alternator to start with...otherwise I would really double check all your wiring and grounds.It (your system) definitely should not kill your charging system in that short a period, if ever actually.

I run my system all the time at about 60-70% of streshold, and alot of times engine off (but not for more than 1/2hr). I'm also careful not to have too much running at the same time though.

But with a new alternator and battery you should be fine Ami, I would think...


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[EvilEric]

For anyone with a higher model compustar, you can do a "check" (button 4) and see what the Voltage is when the car is running. As one of the above people said, you should be at 14.

[x_o_k_x]

I have the same problem on my Altima, untill I bought new alternator, now seems fine. Even though car ran fine without battey. So 2nd test i did went to CT and battery was fine too. Eventually I replaced alternator, because final results it wasnt generating enough voltage to support all demands.

BTW It is recomended to upgrade your alternator to support your sound system. Otherwise factory ones won't last too long.

[FLIPDADY]

The alternator is around the $500 mark IIRC... gotta be glad you have the M.A.P.

:)
Amen to that!

M.A.P pays - $500 plus the labour.

[x_o_k_x]

i was happy when nissan dealership was charging me like $500 for alterantor for my altima, but i went to these small autoparts store and got alterantor for $200 brand new with 1 year warranty. Gotta know where to go lol

[mazda lover]

$500 for an alternator, you got to be kidding me

[Flagrum_3]

$500 for an alternator, you got to be kidding me

Must be Gold Plated! :chuckle


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[McGuyver_3]

I had the exact same problem minus the abs light because my car is not equipped with it but i decided to check and figure it out myself turned out it was just my negative terminal on the battery itself being lose and depending on the pothole i hit it would lose connection to the battery. luckily it was nothing worse then that. But my old battery had a dead cell in it and if i left it sitting for longer then 2 days thecar would die lol.

[-RJ3-]

Amen to that!

M.A.P pays - $500 plus the labour.

Another reason to get the MAP... It has helped me so far!!

[S.F.W.]

Amen to that!

M.A.P pays - $500 plus the labour.

Also pays for my rental.

[sudz]

A car does some WEIRD things when it has low voltage! My dad's 98 accord would fail to shift until the RPMS were 5k plus. We blew a phase in the alternator, so it was only generating around 11volts instead of the 14volts. Needless to say, a shift at 5000 RPM was rather harsh! We turned off all the fans, stereo, lights etc and limped home. The car died when we had to stop at a red... the rpms dropped the alternator could keep up:-(

My moms old chevette (going way back here) would start honking the horn and lights would randomly turn on and off.

We had a ford station wagon(again... late 80's, lol) , and when the battery started to go on it, the speedo told you going 299kph. (digital readout)

The lights could have been triggered by the systems not getting enough power - hense causing a fault. I wouldn't worry unless you see the problem with a new battery and alt. as well :-P

[Hives]

Go with a deep cycle battery. Prolly an Optima Red. Yellow is better if u wanna cough up some extra cash. The factory 3 battery is only good to be a paper weight.

[notoriousb]

Does anyone even have an upgraded alternator here? The only one available is from http://www.highoutputalternator.com and they charge like $600 for a 200 AMP model.
I've heard good reviews on it too, so if you have the money to spend, get it.

I asked around many people, and no one would even increase my windings on it because the alternator has some hi tek regulator built inside.

Otherwise, just upgrade the big 3 and get a red/yellow top battery. Thats the best thing you guys can do. You could also get your alternator rebuilt so it starts performing like it was new again for about $90 bux at some alternator/starter shops.

[McGuyver_3]

there is aq guy who makes the alternators by hand and guarantees them for life but they are not cheap. I will ask my friend who told me about him

[btown-mazda]

My battery light came on last week but I don't have a sound system so I know it can't be the same problem as Ami's. I took the car to my mechanic today and they tested the voltage on the battery and it was 13.x but less then the recommended voltage output. They suggested I take the car back to them another time and have my alternator rebuilt by an outside source contracted to that shop. I was given a price of $230 for everything as the shop needs to take out my alternator and the guy will come pick it up rebuild it and give it back to them. I've been going to these guys for a looong time so I know their fair with me but I'll check with my dealership to see if my alternator is still under warranty, hopefully it is.

Edit: Called the dealership and it loos like i'm SOL, i'm out of warranty now so I'm on my own, i have an appointment on friday to see if it might be the timing belt and not the alternator. I was quoted $600 for a new alternator with labour. Pretty steep.

[KenYork]

3's don't have timing belts, and the timing chain should not need to be adjusted.

[btown-mazda]

3's don't have timing belts, and the timing chain should not need to be adjusted.

Interesting... that's what the service guy at Ontario Mazda had said. I'll ask them that when I go in on Friday.

[gabbygenier]

I had the same problem with mine. i have a redtop and braught it back to walmart, they checked it and said it was fine, just needed to be charged a bit more. so i put it on the charger overnight and had the same problem. i then checked all my wires and everything looked good so i took the terminals off the battery posts and snaded hte posts a bit and have not had a problem since (bout 6 months ago) i think the reason the battery was low for me is cause the car sat there for a month not beeing used when i was gone to work. but apparently that was not the issue in the end anyhow.

[mdass52]

Im running two Clarion amps on my stock setup, no problems yet either. they both carry 60 amp fuses, 120 amps peak. But there is no way im drawing 120 amps all the time. Just like all others are saying here, upgrade u're battery cables, battery and alternator. Capacitors work to a certain extent, but remember that's another thing that has to be charged to work.

[Dave_The_BMXER]

$500 for an alternator, you got to be kidding me

For real.. is that how much they cost? My last cars they were in the 150 range and an easy DIY.


For what its worth I have had systems in both my past cars, and both had an alternator and battery die.

Par for the course maybe.

[Flagrum_3]

IMO you shouldn't have to upgrade any of the primary electrical system; battery cables, alternator etc, if your system is wired properly or not abused!!...As I mentioned before my system has been running for 3 years now and absolutely no problems.One of my previous vehicles had almost the exact same system I'm running now and I went 7 years problem free with that one!.
So I would have to think there's something else to it, I'm wondering how many of you are running HIDs also, along with your systems!?


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