GI: Meth Injection for the ms3

[Unoriginalusername]

Just gauging interest at this point, Pat is looking into a few kits and there is a local guy that makes a kit and installs as well.

I haven't heard great reviews about the snow kit, but they have some dyno's http://www.snowperformance.net/dyno_charts_type.php?type=gasoline

Seems to be worth about 20whp untuned (recommended) and is a great safety/reliability mod for the car.

Possibly interested
1. UOU
2. MPS
3. Roy
4. REZXPERT
5. Rx9
6. Mkfc
7.
8.
9.
10.
11.
12.


Hey guys,

Okey dokey, got some info for you.

AEM Water/Methanol Kit, 1 Gallon Tank version:

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=120

1-4 units: $399 + taxes.

5+ units: $384 + taxes.

We'd have to arrange installation seperately, but I'm sure Jimmy could help us out :)

[Kevin@nextmod]

sry for the ignorant question but what does this do?

[Unoriginalusername]

sry for the ignorant question but what does this do?

from a basic google search :gg


Alcohol/water injection is a method for cooling the combustion chambers of engines by adding methanol/water mix to the incoming air-fuel mixture. This allows for greater compression ratios and largely eliminating the problem of engine knocking due to detonation. Many alcohol-water injection systems use a mixture of water and alcohol (usually 50/50), partly because the alcohol is combustible and will raise the octane level of the fuel. While water is not combustible, it has a greater capacity to cool the intake air temps down more than methanol alone. This effectively increases the octane rating of the fuel, allowing performance gains to be obtained when used in conjunction with a supercharger or turbocharger, altered spark ignition timing, and increased boost levels.


In gasoline engines, as with any intercooler, this suppresses detonation so more power producing boost and timing can be utilized. Water, with its high latent heat of vaporization cools the intake charge and combustion. Methanol cools the charge and combustion but also acts like an extremely high octane fuel (some researchers claim as high as 120 octane) as well as adding more oxygen to combustion.

Water injection was evaluated scientifically in the 1930.s by H. Ricardo who demonstrated that one can basically double the power output of an engine using water/methanol. The first widespread use was during WWII on supercharged and turbocharged aircraft. In 1942, the German Luftwaffe increased the horsepower of the Focke-Wulf 190D-9 fighter aircraft from 1776HP to 2240HP using 50/50% water/methanol injection. The allies soon followed by fitting the P51 Mustang and other high performance aircraft with water/methanol injection. Following the war, the turboprop aircraft industry used water/methanol injection and called it the "automatic power reserve system (APR)" for use in hot or high altitude take off. It surfaced again in the 60's when GM used a system on the OEM turbo Corvair. It was used effectively in Formula 1 before being banned for adding too much power.

The latest competitive use is in World Rally Racing (WRC) where virtually all teams use it in some form

The kit taps into your windshield washer tank so that you get a warning light when it is running low, and it can be set to not activate until a certian boost PSI range (ie 8PSI) which you wouldn't hit unless you were WOT.

[RX9]

$$$$?

[Unoriginalusername]

$$$$?

Pat is looking into some options for us, the local kit is $700 installed regular price. It is a good long term reliability mod that as an added benefit improves performance.

I have ordered a TMIC (from Pat) and would like to get a meth kit to go with it as for the price of a FMIC (Cobb/CPE) you get more power, zero lag, long term relability, and enhanced cooling benefits because of the meth.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/water-injection-kits-1/universal-19/universal-stage-1-8.html (from another manf site)

Allows you to run safely more boost and/or more timing
Reduce the intake charge temperature up to 70F, results in a denser more powerful air/fuel charge
Perfect for cars with thermal problems and prior tuned cars
No loss of boost as with a intercooler
No wear issues only clean combustion chambers
Reduce the specific fuel consumption

[REZXPERT]

what are the warranty implications? wait, do i care? yeah, i'm in.

[Unoriginalusername]

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=937176
What is Water/Methanol Injection?
Water Injection or Water Methanol Injection, is a process by which a mixture or water and Methanol are injected into the fuel/air mixture on the way to the combustion chamber. Water/Methanol Injection provides "Chemical Intercooling" inside the cylinder. By injecting water and methanol in a finely atomized spray, the water is able to evaporate under the high temps of a firing cylinder, and when the water evaporates, it takes heat with it. The methanol also has a cooling and octane boosting effect as it burns.

How does water/methanol injection allow your engine to produce more power?
The production of more power by a water/meth injected engine is not a by-product of the water/meth mixture alone. You must tune for it to get the most out of it. The evaporative effects of the water/meth mixture, plus the octane boost, allows you to run more advanced timing, and boost, thus increasing power. Methanol having the octane boosting effect, you can adjust your AFR's with tuning, and be able to run the same AFR as a pump gas tune with less fuel added to the fuel map of your engine managment. When the system is spraying, methanol is making up for the fuel that gets taken away during the tuning process. You end up with about same 12.5:1 or so AFR with less pump gas added, you also increase knock resistance, and due to the octane boosting effect, you can add timing and boost to make more power safely.

What is Methanol?
Methanol is the simplest alcohol compound, comprised of one carbon atom, one oxygen atom and four hydrogen atoms (CH3OH). It is also referred to as wood alcohol, carbinol and methyl alcohol. It is poisonous, flammable and relatively volatile. It has no taste or color, but it does have a slight scent.

Methanol is used as a fuel and an antifreeze, and to make formaldehyde. It is also added to ethanol to make it unpalatable so that it avoids taxes on drinkable alcohol, as ethanol without a denaturant of some sort is consumable by humans. Methanol was first discovered in 1661, though it had been used without isolation by peoples as far back as the Egyptians in their embalming processes. The name comes from methy, meaning wine, and hyle, meaning trees.

Methanol is used as a fuel source by some, though its use is limited by its volatility. The main area in which one sees methanol being used is in many top-end racing engines. The vehicles in the Indy 500, for example, are all run on methanol. This methanol is usually produced using a fossil fuel as the synthesis gas, either natural gas or petroleum.

Many renewable energy advocates see methanol as an ideal fuel source, with distinct advantages over hydrogen. When methanol is made from materials such as wood, it is often called bioalcohol. The theoretical use of methanol as a widespread fuel source has given rise to a theory describing what is known as the methanol economy.

In the methanol economy, the common fuel is methanol, with non-renewable fuels having a minority share or being entirely unused. George Olah, a winner of the Nobel Prize, is a strong advocate of this path. Advocates point out that in contrast to hydrogen, methanol is relatively cheap to produce, can be manufactured with little or no waste, is efficient to store and can be made from sources other than fossil fuels. Also, while conversion to a hydrogen economy would require major changes in infrastructure, methanol could be phased in relatively easily because of its interoperability with fossil fuels. One can mix methanol with gasoline to produce hybrid fuels while making the shift in economy.

Unfortunately, methanol is very toxic and contains a number of hazards. It is less volatile than hydrogen, but also much heavier, which could allow contamination in the case of spills or tank leaks. A wide range of groups are constantly looking for new and innovative uses for methanol, and it seems apparent that it will have a role in the energy economy of the future. Whether that role is as the key player or a supporter to hydrogen or some other fuel source remains to be seen.

Can you run just water injection without methanol?
Yes, but you will not be able to take advantage of the octane boosting properties of methanol, thus you will get cooling from the water, but no increase in octane. Without methanol, you may not make as much power, as it acts as a detonation inhibitor, and you may not be able to run a leaner AFR as you could with it.

What supporting upgrades are required for water/methanol injection?
At minimum you should have some sort of engine management that can be tuned, I.E. able to adjust timing, boost, and fuel curves, to compensate for the octane boost, and cooling effects, and be able to take advantage of them to make power. Otherwise you can run water/meth injection on a stock car with tunable engine management. You do not have to have after-market intakes, exhausts, intercoolers, or strengthened internals. Although with more supporting mods that already increase the volumetric efficiency of the engine, the more power that can be had.

Who makes Water/Methanol injection systems?
There are many manufactures of water/injection systems:

These are some of the more popular and most inclusive kits for the money
www.aquamist.co.uk
http://www.snowperformance.net/
www.coolingmist.com
www.alcohol-injection.com
www.enginerunup.com
www.fjoracing.com/products/waterinjection
www.smcenterprises.com/subaru.htm
Here is a link to Richard L's Sticky with details on companies:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=958501
Who is the best manufacture to go with?

That is up to debate, but when you choose a kit, look at all the components that come with the kit, or if you can buy extra pieces that you may need, or think you need I.E. Level switches, fail safes, extra nozzles, varible controllers.
Also consider what type of reservoir you are going to have to use, or does the kit include one?
Most companies have some sort of reservoir, some make you use the existing windshield wiper tank, or make you supply your own.
Also read other peoples experiences with different kits as far as setup, price, inclusiveness of kit (does it satisfy all your requirements part-wise), power gains, etc.

How do I know how big a nozzle to run?

Here is a water injection calculator to assist in this
Calculator

Another injection calculator
[/url]=http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...read.php?t=351[/url]

It is at the bottom of the page...

Here is a volume converter also, to cross reference nozzles. Some companies list volumes of their nozzle in metric, some in standard units of measure.
http://www.sciencemadesimple.net/volume.php

Where can I get methanol?
One of the best sources that some probably don't realize is from wal-mart or anywhere that sells basic windshield wiper fluid. Just make sure you don't get the stuff with Glycol in it...this is the same stuff used in engine anti-freeze. It won't work well, or could damage you engine.

Other sources:

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_f...C855#specialty

This one has a comprihensive list of suppliers all over the USA

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=121500

You can buy on-line from these guys:
LINK
www.pricechemical.com/order/
www.powermist.com/distrib.html
www.worldwideracingfuels.com/catalog_c30755.html

Those are just some.

Are there any water injection forums I can learn more from?

Yes, here are a few:

Aquamist's, probably has the most info and activity
www.waterinjection.info/phpBB2/
www.waterinjectionforum.com
www.waterinjection.info
http://snowperformance.net/forum/
www.alcohol-injection.com/forum

How do I know what mixture to inject?
THe best rule of thumb is a 50/50 mix of methnol and distilled water

Some use more meth, some use less. But windshield wiper fluid is commonly between 35-42% methanol, which will usually work fine. The best mixture is proportionate to your particular state of tune. A little less methanol could possibly cause detonation. Mixing it yourself maybe the best way to know what is right for you.

Here is a freeze table for methanol also:

http://www.ashchem.com/adc/chemicals...=3&is_header=N

Just be careful with methanol as it is corrosive, toxic, and a carcinogen. Please be careful if you decide to mix your own brew.

Here is a link to a methanol hydrogemeter:

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/ezrs104.html

Here is a great how to page:

http://www.dawesdevices.com/howto.html

Can you build your own kit, and how?

You need some basics to build your own system.

You need a pump with adequate pressure, most people use some type of diaphram pump, from ShurFlo for example.

You need nozzles

You need tubing

You need a trigger to turn on the system at the right time, some type of pressure switch...Some engine management such as TurboXS UTEC has a spare solenoid that can be setup to run your water injection system.

Many of the things needed for setting up a system can be found at these suppliers

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...UseBVCookie=no
http://www.fastenal.com/web/products...l.ex?sku=68424
www.mcmaster.com/

And here is a great how to page on building your own...
http://www.projectwrx.com/modules.ph...howpage&pid=34

Can water/meth injection cause damage to my engine?
As with any aftermarket part, yes it can.

If you are running water/meth injection, you are risking detonation and catostrophic engine failure shoud you system fail or not run at optimum efficiency. This is due to the fact that when tuned you will be running advanced timing, boost and leaner fuel trims that would normally not be possible without water/meth injection. Loss of the system while under heavy load may not be able to be compensated for in time, and could cause detonation at best case, and engine failure at worst case. Be careful, and make sure you use a failsafe, or a tune that retards timing at the onset of knock, and some sort of level indicatior for the reservior, to ensure you know when the tank is getting empty. Nozzle clog indicators are not a bad idea either. They are especially important if using tap water, or not using a filter in the system, to catch impuritiies. This is why distilled water is best for this application. Don't tune to depend on it and you'll be fine, less peak hp but safe on and off

Can I run without a external intercooler?
Yes, but your tune has to be setup to compesate for it. Advantages to running without a TMIC or FMIC are better spool of turbo and response, due to less volume to fill up. But again, you must make sure your system is working properly all the time, some have experimented with not using an external intercooler with success.

What gains can be made from water/meth injection?
This all depends on the current setup of your car, type of car, and your tuners ablilty. All your supporting mods such as exhaust, intakes, turbos gains are best realized with some sort of aftermarket tuning. The same it true with water/meth injection. But generally gains of 20-30 Hp and 20-30 ft/lbs of tq are common, making this one of the best bang for the buck power upgrades for your car. Your gains of course depend on supporting mods you already have in place, that will let you take advantage of the tuning to a higher degree.



another good article - http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1413320

[Unoriginalusername]

what are the warranty implications? wait, do i care? yeah, i'm in.

All aftermarket parts are aftermarket parts... if you do not tune the car to HAVE to have the meth (i.e. so when it runs out your screwed) it is a reliability mod that is actually better for your car.

I have been told that the local guy's install is very stealthy

[mkfc]

definitely interested put me down please :)

[Unoriginalusername]

definitely interested put me down please :)

added to the OP :). rx9 i see you lurking and i know you want it :chuckle so i added you

[mkfc]

imagine deleting your external mounted intercooler and replacing it with water and meth... has anyone dared to try?

[Unoriginalusername]

imagine deleting your external mounted intercooler and replacing it with water and meth... has anyone dared to try?

The subby forums seemed to have alot more info on the topic, sounds like some people have done it but the problem is if you tune for that and runout you are screwed. I am going for reliability with a bit more power, not a dyno queen but the idea is cool none the less


Can I run without a external intercooler?
Yes, but your tune has to be setup to compesate for it. Advantages to running without a TMIC or FMIC are better spool of turbo and response, due to less volume to fill up. But again, you must make sure your system is working properly all the time, some have experimented with not using an external intercooler with success.

[mkfc]

the way i understand it is that if you run out in any case you're screwed haha

[Unoriginalusername]

the way i understand it is that if you run out in any case you're screwed haha

not at all, if you don't tune for it and it runs out your car simply is the way your car is now... which is fine. That is why it is nice to have it tapped into washer tank so that you at least get the low warning light. and if you set it to 8psi it only sprays at wot so it will last long enough as well

[mkfc]

so you're planning on not tuning for it?

also, what about water and meth injection in the intercooler piping (from the turbo to intercooler) i'd assume that would make quite a difference as well.. unless the intercooler can't have water vapour put through it

[midnightfxgt]

$700 for a basic kit is a ton of money guys... keep shopping and you will find some good alternatives! More expensive setups ($700) should include their own bottle, switch failsafe, controllers etc etc etc. Basically the full nine yards.

www.coolingmist.com - Excellent reviews and pricing :)

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

$700 for a basic kit is a ton of money guys... keep shopping and you will find some good alternatives! More expensive setups ($700) should include their own bottle, switch failsafe, controllers etc etc etc. Basically the full nine yards.

www.coolingmist.com - Excellent reviews and pricing :)

-John

I'll post the details of the kit when i get it, but their kit for the STI is $450 USD plus shipping, plus tax, plus customs + installation. Then your warranty is out of country. 700 installed (might get gb pricing) all in isn't bad if you compare, and in the event of an issue your support is in toronto. but if we can get the best for less, i am all for that wherever it comes from :chuckle

They have some pretty sweet kits scrolling down, we'll have to get the specs and pricing to compare to see what options are best. I know of one MS6 that has the local kit for a month or so now and he swears by it, fixed his knock problem and improved power

[Unoriginalusername]

so you're planning on not tuning for it?

also, what about water and meth injection in the intercooler piping (from the turbo to intercooler) i'd assume that would make quite a difference as well.. unless the intercooler can't have water vapour put through it

i am planning on not tunning for it, seems like it is worth about 20whp un tuned and is the most safe approach. not sure about the ic question

[mkfc]

700 installed sounds good.. as long as there are at least someof those features that midnight mentioned

[midnightfxgt]

Yeah James, check them out for sure... good pricing, and install isnt too too bad at all. The failsafes, and the vari-controller etc are good things to have. Seperate tanks etc too. I thought you were saying $700 was for a tapped into bottle solution. Although a bit high on price, you do get the install etc done and local support.

-John

[RX9]

added to the OP :). rx9 i see you lurking and i know you want it :chuckle so i added you

your the man. lol....

[Unoriginalusername]

Yeah James, check them out for sure... good pricing, and install isnt too too bad at all. The failsafes, and the vari-controller etc are good things to have. Seperate tanks etc too. I thought you were saying $700 was for a tapped into bottle solution. Although a bit high on price, you do get the install etc done and local support.

-John

Thanks for the tips, will have to get the details on the local kit so we can compare and decide which one to go with and then work on the best price

[SP33D 3]

when does this group buy end?

[RX9]

when does this group buy end?

GB is not even started yet.:chuckle

[REZXPERT]

UOU is takin the GB load off Pat. stand up guy, that James.

[Unoriginalusername]

UOU is takin the GB load off Pat. stand up guy, that James.

this thread is to determine meth interest, pat is looking into some kits and we have this local kit.

we can then decide which kit is the best for our cars, and work with pat and or local guy on pricing.

my preference is pat, but if the best kit, and support is local and the price is good then that might make the most sense.

[REZXPERT]

UOU is takin the GB load off Pat. stand up guy, that James.

i take that back:chuckle

[SP33D 3]

this thread is to determine meth interest, pat is looking into some kits and we have this local kit.

we can then decide which kit is the best for our cars, and work with pat and or local guy on pricing.

my preference is pat, but if the best kit, and support is local and the price is good then that might make the most sense.

meth interest sounds odd... but yea 700 does seem abit steep for me, but i would be interested depending on whats included, do you have any more info on this local guy?

[Unoriginalusername]

meth interest sounds odd... but yea 700 does seem abit steep for me, but i would be interested depending on whats included, do you have any more info on this local guy?

still waiting :bang

[CanadaGTO]

Hey guys,

Okey dokey, got some info for you.

AEM Water/Methanol Kit, 1 Gallon Tank version:

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=120

1-4 units: $399 + taxes.

5+ units: $384 + taxes.

We'd have to arrange installation seperately, but I'm sure Jimmy could help us out :)

[SP33D 3]

Hey guys,

Okey dokey, got some info for you.

AEM Water/Methanol Kit, 1 Gallon Tank version:

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=120

1-4 units: $399 + taxes.

5+ units: $384 + taxes.

We'd have to arrange installation seperately, but I'm sure Jimmy could help us out :)


what about the 5 gallon tank? or would the gb be only for the 1 gallon.. this includes the boost safe output as well right?

i'm going to call jimmy tomorrow about an oil change so i'll ask him about this stuff as well

[mkfc]

wow the price jump to the 5 gallon is more than i expected it to be, 460-577

[kid_icarus]

so this uses water AND methanol mix? or is it one or the other?

why do u guys keep coming up with this stuff
lol.
you guys make me want everything.

that cobb ap put me over the top... bah... anyways i will continue to monitor

edit" nvm.... yes you can run water only.... but without increase hp...
where does one buy methanol anyways?

[mkfc]

windshield washer fluid

id also like to see some sort of article comparing the effectiveness of each meth kit. so many to choose from, what exactly makes one better than the other?

[Unoriginalusername]

Here are the details from Tony on the local kit



My kit uses a Coolingmist pump, a electronic solenoid,stainless steel nozzle and a standalone pressureswitch (triggers off boost, and for your cars, bestactivation point is around 12-13 psi). The hardwareis not rare by any means, and can be purchased frommany industrial supply stores. However, it is the wayI set up and implement the system that you guys want. There are some key features that makes my kitdifferent the ones you see available on the web (AEM,Devils, Snow, etc). I can't share the details on theinternet because it took a lot of testing to developsomething reliable, yet simple enough to get the jobdone well.

I have been working with water/methinjection for about 6-7 years and it started with myown personal cars of course. None of the kits outthere were up to my standards, and even now the kitshaven't changed much. They either have too much BSfeatures that just makes the system over complex, andto keep those features, they cheap out certain keyhardware to keep their prices competitive. I havealso been a victim from kits you see out there longago and that's how you often hear about meth injectionblowing motors, etc... An overview of my kit: It is a single stage with asmall jet, and the higher price tag is factored infrom the higher grade hardware that I use in the kits(road tested for 5+ years on more than 20 cars).

Nocheesy plastic tubing that tends to melt when ittouches any exhaust parts; stainless steel jets thatwon't corrode unlike common brass jets, etc. Nowater/meth boiling over because of how my fluid linesare plumbed, etc... Originally, I only install these kits for my owntuning customers only (I own a dyno tuning shop), andseriously, I never intended to set this group buy upat all.

... But since you guys are all local and are interestedalready, I don't mind it as long as I do the installpersonally. I won't sell the kit by itself by anymeans. Water/meth injection is tricky, and people tryto extract power out of it, or try to run more booet,etc... If I don't do the install, the kit will bemisused and my name would go along with that... Notgood! Basically, the system is there for safetyonly. Imagine your car is tuned for 92 octane, andyou fill the car up with 94 octane. The car will makeclose to the same power, but the car never detonatesor ping with 94 oct. It's just safer, so it is moretolerant to mishaps like bad batch of gas, or maybethe car is running hotter than usual from long trips,or maybe the intercooler does not have enough capacityto endure 3-4 consecutive pulls, etc...

You can mention a few key thing on the forums. Mykit is purposely made to keep it simple, and istailored for a specific car. So far, I have installedthis system into a Mazdaspeed 6 with an aftermarkettopmount IC, running 18 PSI, CPE downpipe, exhaust,and CPE standback (no tuning was done though). We didsome dyno testing and found a good combination... Thecar did not gain much power from the first cold dynopull, but once the intercooler heated up, the engineheatsoaked, etc.. the Mazdaspeed 6 started to pingaround 3000RPM and 6000RPM.

With the water/methinjection activated, the car yielded an extra 20 WHParound 4000RPM and 15 ft-lbs of torque at 3000RPM, andthe engine stopped detonating/pinging as well. Thepower gains were simply from keeping the engine coolerfrom the heat of a small turbo wheezing at 18 PSI. Power was also a lot more consistent pulls afterpulls. All the MS3 guys will be running similar sizedjets as the MS6 that I was working on.

The regular price is $700 + both taxes, but if you canget more than 5 guys, I can take out one of the taxes.The price you are looking at for the kit, fullyinstalled, is $750 CAD for more than 5 people. Theywill also have to arrange a time with me to get thekit installed at my shop, and usually it takes 4 hoursto to the install, and a little longer to keep theinstallation looking stealthy.

Also, since I run a tuning shop, I would much preferall the guys to put the car on my dyno to verify theA/F's and how the car is running after theinstallaton. My regular baseline dyno price is $100,but if included as a package price with the water/methinjection, I can do offer water/meth injectioninstallation + dyno run for a total of $800 CAD, taxesincluded. Please check out my website for my shop location andother details =)

Thanks!
TonyDynamotorsports.ca

[mkfc]

i really like the sounds of that. he seems to know alot about the subject.. and a dyno afterwards makes lots of sense

[WhiteSpeed3]

this stuff really works i know a secret person that has it very nice stuff iff only the funds were there

[Unoriginalusername]

Pat can you get the cooling mist kits?

[WhiteSpeed3]

im looking into some top secret stuff lol

[SP33D 3]

800 is even steeper :S but it includes alot.... btw the website doesnt work

[CanadaGTO]

No can do on the cooling mist kits, but I've heard they are good :)

[Tony the Tiger]

Hey guys, I am the Tony you are speaking of... I have tried my best to explain the details of the kit and how I implement the system on the quote few posts above:)

I have once thought I could get away with cheaper water/meth injection kits, compare features vs costs, etc... Until I realize that to get a bulletproof system with all the "extra goodies" (reservoir, float sensor, etc...) the price for the system will be outrageous. It is only by cheaping out on the contents that these guys are keeping their prices competitive. If you noticed, Aquamist is by far the BEST system out there... but to incorporate all the typical features you see on other brand name kits out there , Aquamist systems ended up being well above $600-650 for a typical single stage kit alone.

My kit is not meant to be cheap or cost-friendly... It is simply designed up to my expectations, and I am running whatever hardware it needs to do that job and to keep it simple. I originally made this kit for my customers who wants to run on an aggressive tune on pump gas but without the risks. It wasn't designed to be cheap and to be sold at retail stores. It was mainly made for my customers that come in for tuning, and it was designed with a lot of adjustability of flow rates to accomodate all sorts of setups.

Even so, my kit is composed from parts that you can source elsewhere; and even if you sourced everything yourself, the kit alone is only around $400 worth of hardware. The $750 total price tag includes installation and dialing in the system. To do a neat job and to do it properly, it takes at least 4 hours to install my water/meth kit, and another hour to test/dial in the system. To lower the costs a bit, I have already offered the dyno session at half of my regular price.

You can get any regular performance shop to install your generic AEM, Snow, Devil, etc.. kit, but you are limited to a preset of jet sizes, PSI and flow-rate. If you inject an incorrect amount of water/meth, the car will lose power, wet-out and misfire, and could actually cause you to spin a bearing from too much volume inside the cylinders. My kit is designed to be able to control the pump to run at any PSI, and I have a large variety of jets along with a dyno to tailor your specific car. My experience is what lets me know when too much is too much, or if it's too little to do anything. Guys running stock boost will obviously require different flow rates than guys at 18 PSI of boost; however, guys running 18 PSI on stock downpipe/cats and exhaust will need more water/meth flow compared to guys running a higher flowing downpipe and exhaust at the same 18 PSI.

From what I have found, the MS3 and MS6 engines absolutely NEED water/meth injection just from the way Mazda tuned the car from the factory. It is not the first time I have witnessed a bolt-on MS3 or MS6 pinging on the dyno after 3-4 dyno pulls on 94 oct and AFR's already in the 11's. This is at a dyno with hood popped open and much lesser load than real road driving conditions. That means if you were to unleash the beast on the highway in 5th gear, the engine will be pinging like mad and possibly enough to shoot a rod through the block if you do it enough times. When a water/meth injection system is installed onto an engine and it actually gains power, it shows that the current tune is already too aggressive for the amount of octane fuel used.

If you guys have any specific questions, feel free to private message me :)

[mkfc]

so... who's in?

[RX9]

i know where to get the the Water in decent price:chuckle but what about Methanol? and how long can a bottle last?

[Fobio]

i know where to get the the Water in decent price:chuckle but what about Methanol? and how long can a bottle last?

Unless you're real hardcore/adventurous, I'd caution against mixing your own meth/water...

as stated "Windshield Washer Fluid without Glycol"...

you guys have officially peaked my interest...

[RX9]

Unless you're real hardcore/adventurous, I'd caution against mixing your own meth/water...

as stated "Windshield Washer Fluid without Glycol"...

you guys have officially peaked my interest...


i bought 12cases RainX when CT has speacial on, damn, i need to buy some regular fluid now and stock up. lol.....

[mkfc]

i should make a GI for a giant barrel of toulene

[RX9]

COSTCO GB: 2.65+Tax :chuckle (http://www.costco.ca/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10297948&whse=BCCA&Ne=4000000&eCat=BCCA|20483|20738&N=4009738&Mo=37&pos=2&No=1&Nr=P_CatalogName:BCCA&cat=20738&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-CA&Sp=C&ec=BCCA-EC4031-Cat20483&topnav=)

[SP33D 3]

i'd be in depending when this gb would happen.. right now i dont have the cash but i will in may when i start work again

[mkfc]

we should make this a formal GB... and also for the costco sized toulene barrel :)

[REZXPERT]

in.

[Unoriginalusername]

meth install wip

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/axela1/DSC02239.jpg

[CanadaGTO]

Interested to see V***'s install in person, looks nice.

[WhiteSpeed3]

i seen someone else install very stealthy and clean

[RX9]

i like those Hella Supertune Horns. they are lound.

[Tony the Tiger]

Hey guys, if any of you are interested, please email me. I got a lot of phone calls and messages from some of you guys, but usually I am away from my office with cars running on the dyno during most of the day and cannot return the calls.

My email is HTRacingmailbox (at) yahoo.ca

Email is much preferred :) Thanks


By the way, here's a few pics of the kit installed (thanks V*** for pics):

http://www3.sympatico.ca/h.leung/Dynamotorsports/redMS3methkit1.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/h.leung/Dynamotorsports/redMS3methkit2.jpg
http://www3.sympatico.ca/h.leung/Dynamotorsports/redMS3methkit3.jpg