Cobb spring + camber plate question

[Unoriginalusername]

So Cobb says you don't "need" camber plates with their spring, i have seen some prokit drops and the rear tires look like /\ from behind without the camber plates and cause uneven tire wear, but thats a different spring/drop

I've since sold the prokits and got the cobb springs from Pat and am looking forward to installing them but i am still unsure if i should install the camber plates that i picked up over the winter. I have them, but if they really aren't needed i would be happy to sell them and collect the cash back.

I am concerned that if they are designed for the bigger prokit drop they may actually induce positive camber \/ (from behind) which would wear the other side of the tire and or cause a tire rub with a different combo on one hand

OR

not having them like cobb says still might cause poor rear tire camber wear and i'd wish i had installed them.

what do you think, sell or install?

[Noisy Crow]

What kind of camber links do you have? If they are the SPC ones (mine showed up in an Eibach box) they are adjustable, both +ve and -ve.

http://www.spcperformance.com/PROD_DIR/SPCPerf_PROD_SEARCH_DYN.cfm?cmd=Cam&cmd2=67420&cmd3=

[Unoriginalusername]

What kind of camber links do you have? If they are the SPC ones (mine showed up in an Eibach box) they are adjustable, both +ve and -ve.

http://www.spcperformance.com/PROD_DIR/SPCPerf_PROD_SEARCH_DYN.cfm?cmd=Cam&cmd2=67420&cmd3=

those are the ones

[Noisy Crow]

those are the ones

So you should be good regardless of which way your camber needs correcting.

[Fobio]

how much were you able to pick them up for?

and do you adjust them yourself or would you have Jimmy adjust it AFTER test-driving it first?

I'm very interested in this topic myself...

[Unoriginalusername]

So you should be good regardless of which way your camber needs correcting.

i agree, so the question is does it need them or will be just fine without them in which case its better to sell? asking because i don't want to tie up limited cash in un-needed mods

[Noisy Crow]

If you have the right tools you can adjust them yourself but you really need the alignment-shop measuring equipment to know what adjustments to make.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23911&highlight=prokit

Edit:

You can also get non-adjustable ones from Mazda:
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=238908&postcount=1

[Noisy Crow]

i agree, so the question is does it need them or will be just fine without them in which case its better to sell? asking because i don't want to tie up limited cash in un-needed mods

There a lot of people here who claim to have had no tire-wear issues with a mild drop. Others have seen significant wear. It all depends on the exact suspension geometry and the tire/rim for a given car.

My personal opinion is that, even if I were prepared to accepted accelerated wear of an expensive pair of tires, I am not willing to drive on a mis-aligned suspension.

Until I have all the components on my car and have paid someone to check the alignment I won't know whether the camber is sufficiently out of whack to require camber links. And even if the camber is within tolerances, it's probably going to be skirting the edge of what is "okay". So I am putting camber links on at the same time as the springs.

Considering that Mazda includes camber links their springs (albeit non-adjustable ones), I suspect that their engineers are of the same opinon.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=238908&postcount=1

[Unoriginalusername]

There a lot of people here who claim to have had no tire-wear issues with a mild drop. Others have seen significant wear. It all depends on the exact suspension geometry and the tire/rim for a given car.

My personal opinion is that, even if I were prepared to accepted accelerated wear of an expensive pair of tires, I am not willing to drive on a mis-aligned suspension.

Until I have all the components on my car and have paid someone to check the alignment I won't know whether the camber is sufficiently out of whack to require camber links. And even if the camber is within tolerances, it's probably going to be skirting the edge of what is "okay". So I am putting camber links on at the same time as the springs.

Considering that Mazda includes camber links their springs (albeit non-adjustable ones), I suspect that their engineers are of the same opinon.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=238908&postcount=1

yes good point, but the mazda drop for the speed3 is more then the cobb i believe?

[kid_icarus]

yes good point, but the mazda drop for the speed3 is more then the cobb i believe?

don't forget the age old arugment that cobb made these springs specifically for the speed 3 and have gone out to say that it should be fine without camber....

actually don't quote me on that lol.

[Unoriginalusername]

don't forget the age old arugment that cobb made these springs specifically for the speed 3 and have gone out to say that it should be fine without camber....

actually don't quote me on that lol.

too late :chuckle

[Fobio]

If you have the right tools you can adjust them yourself but you really need the alignment-shop measuring equipment to know what adjustments to make.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23911&highlight=prokit

Edit:

You can also get non-adjustable ones from Mazda:
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=238908&postcount=1

Thanks...I was thinking that it'd require the alignment shop to do it...

[Fobio]

yes good point, but the mazda drop for the speed3 is more then the cobb i believe?

so are you gonna use them or sell them?

sorry for more questions:

without these, does it mean it becomes impossible for the alignment shop to put you back to spec?

theres another thread, regarding a set of MS-01's, where a member suggested that a alignment shop can bring it back to spec without camber kits...your thoughts?

[Unoriginalusername]

so are you gonna use them or sell them?

sorry for more questions:

without these, does it mean it becomes impossible for the alignment shop to put you back to spec?

theres another thread, regarding a set of MS-01's, where a member suggested that a alignment shop can bring it back to spec without camber kits...your thoughts?

i read it the same way, in which case i would much rather have $200 then a redundant part and give them to someone who needs them for their particular setup.

[Noisy Crow]

so are you gonna use them or sell them?

sorry for more questions:

without these, does it mean it becomes impossible for the alignment shop to put you back to spec?

theres another thread, regarding a set of MS-01's, where a member suggested that a alignment shop can bring it back to spec without camber kits...your thoughts?

The stock rear camber is not adjustable. The MazdaSpeed camber links "adjust" the camber by being a different length. The SPC links are adjustable.

[Fobio]

The stock rear camber is not adjustable. The MazdaSpeed camber links "adjust" the camber by being a different length. The SPC links are adjustable.

Thanks noisy...I understood that part...what I'm wondering is if the camber kits are even needed in the Cobb application at all...since even more aggressive drops are "ok", I'm wondering the alignment shop can still "fudge" back to spe without the camber kit...

Now for those guys with more aggressive drops, I think it's definitely worth considering, esp when UU is selling at such an amazing price... =)

Is it also wise to wait a week or so AFTER lowering to do the alignment and allow the springs to settle?

[Fuman]

Thanks noisy...I understood that part...what I'm wondering is if the camber kits are even needed in the Cobb application at all...since even more aggressive drops are "ok", I'm wondering the alignment shop can still "fudge" back to spe without the camber kit...
Is it also wise to wait a week or so AFTER lowering to do the alignment and allow the springs to settle?
rear camber non-adjustable on all mazda 3s. The alignment shop can't do anything about it.
If your camber is within spec, it should be ok. Misaligned Toe will kill your tires faster than camber. All springs will sag, it'll be wise to wait around 2 weeks.

I'd install it if I were you guys. It'll useful if you ever decide you want camber (e.g. you go auto-crossing or something)

[Fobio]

Thanks Fuman...that's some good info...

I'm sure you've read this...

http://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37239

What I'm pointing out is that spec is -1.7 +/-1 degree, meaning -2.7 to -0.07 is within spec. Given the Cobb's are -2.2, that means we're only 1/2 degree off "spec". I know these things are a matter of milliliters, but an extra 1/2 degree of negative camber will make the car "understeer" more, and would decrease sharpness of the car in auto-x situations...what do you guys think?

[Fuman]

Thanks Fuman...that's some good info...

I'm sure you've read this...

http://forums.cobbtuning.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37239

What I'm pointing out is that spec is -1.7 +/-1 degree, meaning -2.7 to -0.07 is within spec. Given the Cobb's are -2.2, that means we're only 1/2 degree off "spec". I know these things are a matter of milliliters, but an extra 1/2 degree of negative camber will make the car "understeer" more, and would decrease sharpness of the car in auto-x situations...what do you guys think?
From your link,
according to bbimpreza
Camber after drop: Front = -0.7 Rear = -2.2
Stock specs: Front: -1.95 to 0.95 Rear: -2.7 to -0.7
(I know he said postive 0.95 +/- 1. It doesn't make sense to have positive camber, so I'm guessing it is a typo.

Anyway, that means, it SHOULD be on spec (every car will end up being slightly different).
negative camber at 2 degrees does not have impact on over/under-steering.
The contact patch of the tire (on the outside, the tire that matters most because most of the car's weight are on the outside tire), will be maximized.

If camber was at -5 then maybe it'll cause under-steer (you are losing contact patch during cornering at -5 degrees). Improper toe is likely to cause you more trouble.
have a read if you want.
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling_tuningtable.shtml

If it makes you feel better,
I used to run -2.2 front and back. Car turned amazing on RS-As

[Fobio]

That's more good info...thanks Fuman...do you run auto-x or tracks?

I figure whatever the effects of the increased camber can easily be offset by the stiffer springs and the sways, when I get them...

[Fuman]

That's more good info...thanks Fuman...do you run auto-x or tracks?

I figure whatever the effects of the increased camber can easily be offset by the stiffer springs and the sways, when I get them...
i tracked last season in my friend's car. Most of this stuff I learned during track school.
You would want a bit of negative camber.
Stiffer springs/sways would not give you the same effects of what negative camber can give you and vice versa.

[Fuman]

since mazdaspeed 3 springs fit on mazda 3s.
would Cobb springs fit on mazda 3s?

[Fobio]

I wouldn't see why not, but the + front ride height issue might still be the case due to the higher spring rate...

[Fuman]

I wouldn't see why not, but the + front ride height issue might still be the case due to the higher spring rate...
true, just not sure if the rates will be good for sedan