Pre-Cobb Springs/Post-Cobb Springs (PICS)

[Fobio]

So a picture's worth a thousand word...this is my pre-Cobb pic submission...will try to take exact same pic in a few days!

Please post yours too esp if you've gotten it done this wknd...

These are my pre-Cobb's...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/vincent.chum/SALTs7YHbXI/AAAAAAAAAOE/4QDybhYXYP8/P1010408.JPG?imgmax=912

[Unoriginalusername]

post, post, post

[mleblond]

My pics are here... (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=282407&postcount=11)

:)


Will do :)

Here is a pic of today with the springs on...funny part is that I don`t scrape as much as before but the wheel hop is killing me now...next mod is motor mount for sure...

http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v237/9/60/692410450/n692410450_2745581_464.jpg

Kinda dark...
Before front:
http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v237/9/60/692410450/n692410450_2745602_2453.jpg
After front:
http://photos-f.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v237/9/60/692410450/n692410450_2745605_3676.jpg

Before back:
http://photos-d.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v237/9/60/692410450/n692410450_2745603_2758.jpg

Back After:
http://photos-g.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v237/9/60/692410450/n692410450_2745606_4003.jpg

[Fobio]

yeah...I thought I saw those somewhere...hehe...just wanted to leave your thread clean and start another one...that looks a little mild...I'm thinking it'll settle in a bit...hope we can keep this thread updated to compare results...

[Garu]

Before
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w173/garu79/p_00019.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w173/garu79/p_00020.jpg

After
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w173/garu79/p_00027.jpghttp://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w173/garu79/p_00028.jpg

[mleblond]

Nice Garu...show's off more on white than black ;)

[Fobio]

Nice Garu! That's what I was looking for...did it take long to settle to that or is that right after install? If that's the "settled" results, I'd be happy.

[Garu]

Well it's been only a day since the install.
But I'd say it's more or less settled. Even it drops more it won't be more than 10th of an inch. You will hardly notice it.

[mleblond]

p.s. Nice mazdaspeed decal on there!

[kid_icarus]

garu the drop looks good.

what wheels did u get from allen?
aka size and offset?

when i saw allen he said that if i dropped it i might have some issues with the rear wheels because i'm at a 45 offset. and a drop might produce some rubbing without camber adjustment

did allen warn you of the same thing by any chance?
if not have u noticed any issues with camber or rubbing? aka did jimmy have any suggestions or comments on the whole process?

[chinsterr]

thats a very mild drop (but I would give it some time to settle) , how is the ride in terms of stiffness ?

[brecker]

how is the ride in terms of stiffness ?

+1 ?

[RX9]

^^^ +1 ?

[Garu]

garu the drop looks good.

what wheels did u get from allen?
aka size and offset?

when i saw allen he said that if i dropped it i might have some issues with the rear wheels because i'm at a 45 offset. and a drop might produce some rubbing without camber adjustment

did allen warn you of the same thing by any chance?
if not have u noticed any issues with camber or rubbing? aka did jimmy have any suggestions or comments on the whole process?

These wheels are straight from Japan to US and to me :)
18 x 7.5, its offset is +48. I believe 16 ~ 17 lbs lightweight rim, I'm kicking myself not weighing them before putting them on.

What size of tires are you running? I have 235s on mine and there is no rubbing from the drop.

Jimmy nor Allen didn't comment anything on the installation. Jimmy just briefly mentioned, if they rub get the rear fenders rolled.

[Garu]

thats a very mild drop (but I would give it some time to settle) , how is the ride in terms of stiffness ?

Definitely less body roll. As for the bounciness over the bumps, I'm not sure. I don't feel the difference much. But less body roll means that they are quite stiff yea? :)

[kid_icarus]

These wheels are straight from Japan to US and to me :)
18 x 7.5, its offset is +48. I believe 16 ~ 17 lbs lightweight rim, I'm kicking myself not weighing them before putting them on.

What size of tires are you running? I have 235s on mine and there is no rubbing from the drop.

Jimmy nor Allen didn't comment anything on the installation. Jimmy just briefly mentioned, if they rub get the rear fenders rolled.

running the falken 912's 225/40/18
rims are 18 x 7.5 to i think with a +42 offset??

just hoping i won't have rubbing or need a camber kit to fix it as he said there's a possibility it might happen

would u say there's still quite a fair amount of gap left before your fender?

[Garu]

I think you should be fine with 225/40/18.
It too mild of drop for you need a camber link and also Cobb claimed that you don't need camber because it is still within the factory spec.
I can't really notice the camber with my own eyes either. How the hell do you supposed to notice 0.1~0.5 degrees with your eyes!! :chuckle

[Fobio]

when I did the math, the Cobb-drop puts us -2.2 degree camber, which is -0.5 degrees more (negative) than the spec's -1.7 degrees. The effects of this should/will not cause the car to understeeer more...further, my personal feeling is that the slight effect of more negative camber (which increases understeer) will be easily offset by the stiffer spring rates AND perhaps a stiffer rear sway in the future as well. So other than more inside wear if all you do is drive streets, it should give you improved performance while driving aggressively, since inturn, it MAY improve your rear contact (if that's what you're looking for)...

please correct me if I'm wrong...I can't wait to test these out tmr!

[mleblond]

I find it more stiff and a bit less bouncy....if that makes sense Rolling on stock wheels and tire. But then again i was on steelies since i got the car....

[cosic]

I find it more stiff and a bit less bouncy....if that makes sense Rolling on stock wheels and tire. But then again i was on steelies since i got the car....

Wierd. Always went by the stiffer it is, the more bouncy the ride will be.

[kid_icarus]

hahaha alright well here's hoping for the best then =)

no rubbing and i'll be happy

[Fobio]

Wierd. Always went by the stiffer it is, the more bouncy the ride will be.

The problem with the MS3 is, I believe, that the stock springs can't keep up with the stock shocks, therefore the jouncy (not necessarily bouncy) ride...the Cobb springs are supposed to compliment the stock shocks, so they can work better...

Can' wait till lunch time tmr to try them out!!

[Fobio]

post, post, post

I see you're back from your little run James! I expect nothing short of a lowered, shiny car, with eye-popping photography...:bana2

[Fuman]

when I did the math, the Cobb-drop puts us -2.2 degree camber, which is -0.5 degrees more (negative) than the spec's -1.7 degrees. The effects of this should/will not cause the car to understeeer more...further, my personal feeling is that the slight effect of more negative camber (which increases understeer) will be easily offset by the stiffer spring rates AND perhaps a stiffer rear sway in the future as well. So other than more inside wear if all you do is drive streets, it should give you improved performance while driving aggressively, since inturn, it MAY improve your rear contact (if that's what you're looking for)...

please correct me if I'm wrong...I can't wait to test these out tmr!
stock rear spec according to YOUR link: http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=281851&postcount=19
is -2.7 to -0.7.
negative camber doesn't increase understeer, not at -2.2 or even -2.7. The value is too minimal. If anything, your car will be more planted during hard cornering because the contact patch of the tire (outer tires) on the road is larger than if you had zero camber.
The effects of stiffer spring rates and stiffer rear sway has different effects than negative camber.
if you don't believe me, you can ask ppl at
http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/ (they organize solo 1/2)

[Fobio]

stock rear spec according to YOUR link: http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=281851&postcount=19
is -2.7 to -0.7.
negative camber doesn't increase understeer, not at -2.2 or even -2.7. The value is too minimal. If anything, your car will be more planted during hard cornering because the contact patch of the tire (outer tires) on the road is larger than if you had zero camber.
The effects of stiffer spring rates and stiffer rear sway has different effects than negative camber.
if you don't believe me, you can ask ppl at
http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/ (they organize solo 1/2)

Fuman...pls let me clarify:

What I'm trying to say, from my personal understanding, is that the increase in negative camber, EVEN IF it had an effect of EVEN SLIGHTLY increasing understeer, will easily be offset by stiffer sways (and partially the stiffer spring rates), which to my understanding, will improve turn-in because it'll induuce some oversteer...

Or to clarify again, the effects of the camber change is MINIMAL, and having the addition of stiffer rear sways, I'd still achieve what I'm looking for: namely to MINIMIZE understeer and improve turning by tightening up the rear-end with the sways.

Hope this cleared things up!

[Fuman]

Fuman...pls let me clarify:

What I'm trying to say, from my personal understanding, is that the increase in negative camber, EVEN IF it had an effect of EVEN SLIGHTLY increasing understeer, will easily be offset by stiffer sways (and partially the stiffer spring rates), which to my understanding, will improve turn-in because it'll induuce some oversteer...

Or to clarify again, the effects of the camber change is MINIMAL, and having the addition of stiffer rear sways, I'd still achieve what I'm looking for: namely to MINIMIZE understeer and improve turning by tightening up the rear-end with the sways.

Hope this cleared things up!
Negative camber will look like this: / \. Lets say you are turning hard. Your tires will look like "| \" (the "\" is leaning more than it looks). The "|" are how the outside tires look. With the tire looking like "|" you have maximized the contact patch, (i.e. you can bring out the most out of the tire). Since "|" is the outside tire, most the car's weight is on the "|" tires. Therefore, you are getting more grip with proper negative camber. (More grip != understeer, understeer is you attempt to turn but your car isn't turning. In other words, when your slip angle becomes too high).
What is "proper" negative camber: When cornering hard and your outside tires becomes "|" vertical that is proper camber. Every car is going to be different.
E.g. If you watch F1, you'll can see noticeable negative camber on some cars.

At -2.2:
1) It is within spec
2) Your tire might be showing positive camber during hard cornering; it did for regular 3s. (As in for track, you'll need even more camber)

I'm not going to go into spring rates/sway bars because that get is going to end up being a discussion on a balanced setup.
If you had stiffer sways, the amount of negative camber needed for it to be proper will be less because your tires will be flexing less during cornering. (<-- sorry for the run on sentence). There are other affects of stiffer sways, but not going to get into it. (I just wanted to talk about sway bars with respect to camber)

[Fobio]

Negative camber will look like this: / \. Lets say you are turning hard. Your tires will look like "| \" (the "\" is leaning more than it looks). The "|" are how the outside tires look. With the tire looking like "|" you have maximized the contact patch, (i.e. you can bring out the most out of the tire). Since "|" is the outside tire, most the car's weight is on the "|" tires. Therefore, you are getting more grip with proper negative camber. (More grip != understeer, understeer is you attempt to turn but your car isn't turning. In other words, when your slip angle becomes too high).
What is "proper" negative camber: When cornering hard and your outside tires becomes "|" vertical that is proper camber. Every car is going to be different.
E.g. If you watch F1, you'll can see noticeable negative camber on some cars.

I'm not going to go into spring rates/sway bars because that get is going to end up being a discussion on a balanced setup.
If you had stiffer sways, the amount of negative camber needed for it to be proper will be less because your tires will be flexing less during cornering. (<-- sorry for the run on sentence)

Yes Fuman...I understands that some negative camber is GOOD...but GOOD here is a relative term...good for the track, definite YES...good for the road, most likely not due mainly to uneven wear...(your illustrations are good...I understood those from my driving experience, physics and general car knowledge...)

For me, I'm trying to strike a balance between an aggressive street set-up and a trackable car...so I care less about correcting the negative camber to improve tire wear. AND I'm also looking for a MORE NEUTRAL handling car. So YES, a bit of negative camber is good as illustrated by your / \, | \ and / |.

anyway...I think you and I are talking about something similar from different end of the spectrum and is getting away from topic...no doubt you have much experience tracking your car and I'd look forward to getting more tips from you.

PICS PICS PICS!!!!

[Unoriginalusername]

there is a solution.... buy my adjustable camber links and get the best of both worlds :chuckle

[Fobio]

there is a solution.... buy my adjustable camber links and get the best of both worlds :chuckle

you're not allowed to post until we see some pics!...hehe...so how do they feel James?

I guess the whole debate is somewhat internal: whether to buy James' links or not...and trying really hard not to...good luck on sale!

[Fuman]

Yes Fuman...I understands that some negative camber is GOOD...but GOOD here is a relative term...good for the track, definite YES...good for the road, most likely not due mainly to uneven wear...(your illustrations are good...I understood those from my driving experience, physics and general car knowledge...)

For me, I'm trying to strike a balance between an aggressive street set-up and a trackable car...so I care less about correcting the negative camber to improve tire wear. AND I'm also looking for a MORE NEUTRAL handling car. So YES, a bit of negative camber is good as illustrated by your / \, | \ and / |.

anyway...I think you and I are talking about something similar from different end of the spectrum and is getting away from topic...no doubt you have much experience tracking your car and I'd look forward to getting more tips from you.

PICS PICS PICS!!!!
I doubt I've much more experience than you if at all. After your post I am 99% misunderstanding on what you want to get at.
Since -2.2 is within spec, it should be good enough?
Neutral handling car, I'd agree with you on stiffer sways and these cobb springs will help with weight shifting (to get back on topic =p).

[Fobio]

I guess these are some points I have in mind:

1. Negative camber is good for the track but not for the street.
2. Negative camber causes excessive inner tire wear.
3. Negative camber improves your contact patch while cornering hard, but too much will cause understeer.
4. -2.2 degree will not put you out of spec or cause any understeer and will in fact improve performance on track as per above.
5. Rear camber links may allow you to dial it back to spec, if you want.
6. Spec might not be what you want if you want more rear camber anyway.
7. AT WORST, if the drop doesn't improve my rear-end response ( slightly worsen it, due to whatever factors), stiffer rear sways may help tighten rear end and improve neutrality.
8. Making lists of things about my car at work causes me to lose track of work...

[Fuman]

Mazdaspeed 3 stock camber spec is -1.7 for the rear (it was from ur link in the other thread).
then -1.7 of camber shouldn't cause noticeable camber wear.
If it does, then mazda screwed up, lol.

[Fobio]

OK...so I got it installed...great feel...no more jouncing around...in fact, I can't say this unless I've tried it, so YES the ride is actually BETTER with the Cobb's...there's no more anus-clenching thud-thud over road seams...the bigger dips on rough roads are what they are, but in general, it improved the ride surprisingly well. As others have said body-roll is minimalized and the car feels RIGHT!!

However, I wouldn't classify these as "lowering springs", as they're more like an upgraded spring instead...but wow...what an upgrade...especially with the SU engine mount!

Pre-Cobb
http://lh5.ggpht.com/vincent.chum/SALTs7YHbXI/AAAAAAAAAOE/4QDybhYXYP8/s800/P1010408.JPG

Post-Cobb
http://lh6.ggpht.com/vincent.chum/SAVVNbYHbiI/AAAAAAAAASY/Axdkqv-p2xo/s800/P1010419.JPG

http://lh3.ggpht.com/vincent.chum/SAVXkrYHblI/AAAAAAAAATQ/K0RC2rgh_ts/s800/P1010470.JPG

[mleblond]

picture does no justice to the drop imo....I see it but not everyone will.

[Fobio]

picture does no justice to the drop imo....I see it but not everyone will.

yeah...I actually backed the car around to chk...the ground on the gravel lot causes that side of the car to be higher than the other 3 corners, causing the rear to appear "jacked up"...I tought it was a good idea when I took the first pics...:complain