Street Performance Mechanic says NO alignment needed!

[Dragazn]

On April 12th, 2008 I went to Street Performance to have the Pro-Kits installed by Jimmy. At the time there was also another mechanic there (forgot his name) helping Jimmy out at the shop.

I went into their little office and paid for the installation, Jimmy was already helping out another customer. I asked the mechanic if I needed to do an alignment or if I should get a camber kit installed. He told me "You don't have to get an alignment or camber links installed, with the Pro-Kits the drop isn't low enough that you need them done".

At this time I wasn't sure what to think, hearing all the members and their experience with camber wear, so I asked him again but I also told him that a couple members have had some horror stories on the 3. He told me "Don't worry, I drive a 3 too and you don't need them. You can get an alignment and install the camber links but they won't do anything, your car is fine without it. Plus I didn't touch anything regarding your alignment during the installation so it should be fine." He seemed so sure it wasn't needed that I just accepted it, thanked him and left. What else was I supposed to do right, question him some more? They seemed pretty busy too.

Now its been about 1.5 weeks since the installation and I know that our cars come stock with a bit of camber but it seems the tread on the tires are only being used on the most inner side of the tire.

Is this normal? I would like to take a picture to fully illustrate what I am describing but the camera is elsewhere at the moment, I will try to post pics tomorrow.

I would like to save as much money as I can but would also like to keep the car in good condition. I'm just worried that I "skimp" on the alignment and camber kits and later on down the road, I screw up my tires. I drive A LOT and I know that this can be bad if I don't ensure everything is proper. BUT I also don't want to spend $80 (alignment) + $200 (camber kit) + $$?? to install them if they're not necessary.

There is a winding road with tight turns that leads to my street and near there is a Canadian Tire that is being developed. I always like to drive down that road because its fun to drive, plus with the springs it feels even more exhilarating (sp?). But today as I was going down that road I felt the car slip or skid? It wasn't like I was out of control but it was like the g-force made it skid or hop as I was turning. Nothing crazy, I thought it was maybe a bit of sand or dust from all the construction. I got home and took a look at the tires and the inner tread of the rear tires seemed to have been scraped off by the pavement. Its not horrible but I ran my finger on it and its rough like it has been scraping the pavement, which is what made me try to figure out what I should do about the camber before it gets worse (unless this is normal).

Is there another method of finding out whether or not I need camber links to save my tires later on down the road? Or is an alignment the only way to do this?

Should I just get the alignment anyway because it will be able to tell me for sure?

If the alignment tells me that I need camber links installed, after the installation do I need to get an alignment again?

Thanks for reading, I know its a long read, just wanted everyone to know the factors in my head.

[Flagrum_3]

I think you already know the answer's, you just need a little push! Point is the vehicle has been lowered the geometry will change however so slightly, so it would be in your best interest to spend the $80 (Think of it as preventative maintenance) and get the alignment checked.It may not be out, but if it is, it will save you money down the road and give you peace of mind that your car is a.o.k.


_3


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[Mafty]

it seems your upset a mechanic DIDNT try to sell you something. but it also seems you wont be comfortable or satisfied until you get the alignment. so i would say go do it, if you think it needs it go get one. but if your car doesnt have a "pull" to the elft or right when not holding the steering wheel, then your alignment probably isnt off. my dad didnt get an alignment when dropping his 07 mustang on pro kits. and it drives perfect still a year later

[Wild Weasel]

It's always a good idea to get an alignment done after changing suspension components. Sometimes nothing needs to be adjusted. That doesn't make it a waste.

Better safe than sorry.

[Skarbro]

DEFINITELY get an alignment.

[cwp_sedan]

+1

[Kevin@nextmod]

so it was oversteer when you took that turn? If it is...its normal. The prokits might have a heavier spring rate in the back for the 3 and it will cause oversteer. But as mentioned 30 times.... get an alignment done. BUT do wait another week or so till the springs settle a little more then your alignment will be more accurate.

[Unoriginalusername]

tell that to all the people with camber wear on their tires lol

[sp122]

I have two cars dropped by pro-kit (Accord & E46 BMW) and I didn't get any alignment done on both. I don't find any problems at all, no camber wear on tires or any "pull" problems . Both cars still running great since two years ago. But Again, if you feel more comfortable to do it, just go ahead to do it as another member said "Better safe than sorry". $80 is definitely worth spend to clear your frustration.

[Dragazn]

Thanks guys for all your input, I think I'm definitely going to get the alignment. I'll get it so that I don't have to keep worrying myself. I know if I don't, I'll always wonder if I have camber wear on my tires and with the amount that I drive by the time I switch my winters on it would probably be too late for my tires if there was a problem.


Just another question, if I get the alignment, it will align my tires and the mechanic will be able to tell me if I need a camber kit?



so it was oversteer when you took that turn? If it is...its normal. The prokits might have a heavier spring rate in the back for the 3 and it will cause oversteer. But as mentioned 30 times.... get an alignment done. BUT do wait another week or so till the springs settle a little more then your alignment will be more accurate.

Yeah, I understand the oversteer part but the reason I pointed that out was because it was shaving off the inner tread of my back tires and I thought that maybe it was caused by the camber being off spec. I wasn't sure if it was normal because it literally looked like someone picked up my wheels and dragged them on the pavment. The affected area isn't that big, but enough that it caused some cautions signs to go off in my head.

[Dragazn]

So I took some pictures of the tread I was talking about.

They are the rear wheels and as you can see, the inner part of the tread is being used while the outer part seems pretty clean. Just wondering if this is normal, (as in normal camber) or is something definitely off spec.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8678/dsc04887cz3.jpg
By dragazn (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dragazn), shot with DSC-N1 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N1&make=SONY) at 2008-04-25

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/6058/dsc04888dt3.jpg
By dragazn (http://profile.imageshack.us/user/dragazn), shot with DSC-N1 (http://profile.imageshack.us/camerabuy.php?model=DSC-N1&make=SONY) at 2008-04-25

[SonicBoy]

Get the allingment for piece of mind. The pics do clearly show more inside wear.

[Kevin@nextmod]

If i didn't read wrong. You only lowered your car for 1.5 weeks before you realized your tires are wearing? I doubt 1.5 weeks will do anything to your tires or not even 3 weeks. UNLESS you drive like 200km a day for the passed 2 weeks. But little driving in 1.5 weeks won't do any noticible harm to your tires. Those tires might be even worn during winter or before you had the springs on just that you didn't realize it after you got your springs installed. The stock mazda 3's got a little camber in the back already so a tiny bit of camber wear wo'nt be a suprise

[Dave_The_BMXER]

Both of my previous cars I lowered myself and never got them aligned after, or any form of camber correction. One needs an alignment now cause the control arm bushings need replacement )bmw e30). The other was a truck (Chevy Blazer) and they lower different so nothing had to be aligned either.

Personally, I always checked for extreme tire wear/pulling in the steering and if it arose I would get it aligned. If not...

My 3 had the suspension done by the previous owner, drives nice and straight and no wear.

[Dragazn]

I got the car lowered on the 12th at which point I also took off my winters and put on my summer tires, 5 days before that I got an oil change at Avante Mazda with 16790km. Its been 2 weeks today since I lowered the car. I currently have 19xxxkm, 2500km difference between 14 days is roughly 180km a day. I think thats quite a lot of driving, but it just seems the dust or dirt on the tread seems to shift inwards. I'm more worried in the long run which might not be that long. (re-read this and felt it was like a math problem.):loco

I'm definitely going to get an alignment, although when I'm on the highway I don't feel the car pull in any specific direction. It feels like its going pretty straight. Sometimes I feel like I'm going straight but when I look at the wheel it seems crooked, but only a tiny fraction.

I read in the GB alignment thread for Tire Depot and some members have said they couldn't finish the full alignment.

At this point should I consider a camber kit before getting an alignment or should I just go ahead with booking an appointment with Tire Depot?

[Kevin@nextmod]

i seeriously think you do'nt need a camber kit, unless you're anal about your tires having little camber. You're on a prokit drop and i highly doubt it'll be worth the money. I had h-techs, prokits, and sportlines before. H-techs i know killed my tires. But prokits were fine, wasn't eating up my tires at all. So my suggestion is just get an alignment done and save your self some money.

Camber kit costs money and then installation again and then alignment.... $260 prokits 1.2 inch drop turned out to $500+....

[Noisy Crow]

As far as I am concerned, there is more to consider than just "eating tires"... it's about safety. With the camber out of wack the tires aren't making full contact with the road, which comprimises traction and cornering stability.

[Kevin@nextmod]

As far as I am concerned, there is more to consider than just "eating tires"... it's about safety. With the camber out of wack the tires aren't making full contact with the road, which comprimises traction and cornering stability.
the more camber you have the more stable you are while cornering

[garboui]

I have two cars dropped by pro-kit (Accord & E46 BMW) and I didn't get any alignment done on both. I don't find any problems at all, no camber wear on tires or any "pull" problems . Both cars still running great since two years ago. But Again, if you feel more comfortable to do it, just go ahead to do it as another member said "Better safe than sorry". $80 is definitely worth spend to clear your frustration.



Both of my previous cars I lowered myself and never got them aligned after, or any form of camber correction. One needs an alignment now cause the control arm bushings need replacement )bmw e30). The other was a truck (Chevy Blazer) and they lower different so nothing had to be aligned either.

Personally, I always checked for extreme tire wear/pulling in the steering and if it arose I would get it aligned. If not...

My 3 had the suspension done by the previous owner, drives nice and straight and no wear.


You guys do realize that all the cars that you tried to use as supporting evidence for your argument is like comparing apples to oranges. All the aforementioned cars have completely different suspension designs.

The accord runs a much more equal length parallelogram in the rear meaning less negative camber increase through the travel range than the 3.

The BMW's have decently long suspension links making their wheel travel follow a much more linear path (also the reason why they handle as good as they do.)

The Blazer uses a live rear end. You can same the thing to frame if you wanted and your camber will never ever change. Also the front ends also run a fairly equal length parallelogram like the accord.


Our 3's run a negatively increasing camber setup on the rear. Meaning that any drop may put you out of the 1.5 degree max spec. I had found out the hard way that 2.25 degrees of negative camber will cause very noticeable wear after 1000-2000km.

As for not having any pulling, that doesnt mean that the camber or toe on any end of the car could be out. If the drop is even and the car symmetrical as it should be change in toe or camber equally on both sides will cancel out and still leave a true running car.

Bottom line.
Follow the general consensus and get the alignment done. the $70 or $80 it is is alot cheaper than a set or tires that were very prematurely destroyed and a possible an unpredictable car in high speed corners(extreme case).

[mogul_pro]

New quality tires... 900$+

Alignment... 80$... do the math... get it done.

[mleblond]

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=24481

Check post 7. You have the result of my alignment done after over 2 weeks driving with the new cobb springs installed. it wasn't out by much almost negligible. the back wheels were totally fine. The toe on the front wheels were a bit off thats it...

[garboui]

mleblond, those numbers are providing that you started well within your allignment spec. depending where he was sitting in his camber tolerances etc. his numbers can be much more different than yours.

[mleblond]

lol I don't doubt it. If he needed an alignment in the first place before installing the springs then he must get it done. My alignment was fine when i got mine installed and ended up not messing it up too bad. I did get a new alignment so a peace of mind. But I understand that if you don't have 90$ to waste then it would not be that bad for your car.

[Dragazn]

screw it guys, thanks for all your input but I'm gonna go to Altech and get the 60 cash alignment done.

Thanks again for everything, you guys provided valid points on both sides. It didn't really make the decision easier but 60 cash I can shell out for piece of mind.

[LockOut]

$60 is definitely worth the piece of mind... I'd rather feel safe and comfortable driving my car with $60 less in my pocket than worry every time I got in my car....

[Dragazn]

exactly man....

[Pimpin_29y]

Spend the money now and do it right the 1st time, better that than dishing out $ for tires in a season. IMO get a camber kit and alignment.