Lap Timing Solutions

[Fobio]

I've figured that tracking is pointless if you can't tell if you're improving or not. But like many of you know, I'm cheap. So I've been scouring the net for cheaper timing solutions...

1. HotLap Timing - http://www.longacreracing.com/catalog/item.asp?id=274&catid=10, simple track-side timing - $230

2. PerformanceBox - http://vboxusa.com/performancedrift/performancebox.php, GPS based, cheaper version of Vbox gear used by the car mags - $500

3. MaxQData DIY - http://www.maxqdata.com/downloads.htm, if you have your own PocketPC and GPS receiver, you can try the software for FREE! - $29 - $50 for licenses

I'm currently trying out the FREE MaxQData software on my Dell Axim x51v, but the d/l version is locked at 1Hz sampling, which for my intent and purposes for now is FINE. I might end up paying $50 for the license. What's cool about this is that I was able to follow the instructions and overlayed my "route" (or tracking route if I was on a track) onto maps and Google Earth!

I think I'm gonna play with this for a bit more and see how my lap times with turn out...if you have the time and PPC and GPS receiver...I strongly suggest you give it a try...

This is the "flight data" from my run to p/u sways from Pat...thanks Pat!

http://www.gpsvisualizer.com/display/1213325365-09486-99.230.247.126.html

http://lh5.ggpht.com/vincent.chum/SFHhgVyqbjI/AAAAAAAAAYw/FyOk3Ncbwuk/s800/brampton.jpg

[Marsh]

Here is a long discussion by road racers, and time trialers on CASC-OR webforums discussing the ins and outs of various GPS data loggers with comments from owners of current systems: http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=10361

[Fobio]

+1 ...yeah...that's where I started my research...but like I said, I like the most cost effective solutions...I drive a MS3...not a M3...nor a GT3...

Do you use any timing solutions? How else is everyone timing themselves? Stopwatch velcroed to the steering wheel counts too!

[doughboyr6]

i was just gonna suggest, stopwatch would do the trick instead of spending so much...

but on my track bike i have a transponder/receiver. If i ever do track my car, i'd just use that. its an older model of this one

http://www.cc-2000.com/xtracing/en/ultra-lap/index.html

worked great and easy to use. I don't really like the GPS ones, for some reason i just think they could be off quite easily.

THese ones are infared/laser whatever the technology is, basically the beacon is set trackside along a straight and evertime it passes, it takes the time on your transponder...]

with all this said....a lap timer was what got me in trouble on the track. I was too focused on improving and breaking my lap times that i didn't focus enough on my riding and crashed. If anything now. I'd suggest, keep it out of sight until you pit, then look at it...,

[Fobio]

My bud MajesticBlueNTO mentioned that TSC (Toronto-Subaru-Club) has a current posting on the PerformanceBox and a GB:

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112772&highlight=performancebox


And lastly the pricing. I'm posting this on several boards and fully intend to hit the 10 unit mark.

For 10-24 units (PerformanceBox or DriftBox) the pricing is as follows:
PerformanceBox - 459 shipped
DriftBox - 683 shipped

25+ units:
PerformanceBox - 419 shipped
DriftBox - 619 shipped

Just thought I'd share.

[Fobio]

i was just gonna suggest, stopwatch would do the trick instead of spending so much...

but on my track bike i have a transponder/receiver. If i ever do track my car, i'd just use that. its an older model of this one

http://www.cc-2000.com/xtracing/en/ultra-lap/index.html

worked great and easy to use. I don't really like the GPS ones, for some reason i just think they could be off quite easily.

THese ones are infared/laser whatever the technology is, basically the beacon is set trackside along a straight and evertime it passes, it takes the time on your transponder...]

with all this said....a lap timer was what got me in trouble on the track. I was too focused on improving and breaking my lap times that i didn't focus enough on my riding and crashed. If anything now. I'd suggest, keep it out of sight until you pit, then look at it...,

^^ all good points...

with focusing on the road in mind, I don't particularly like the small sized display of the HotLap...your Ultra-Lap looks a little better, but with those displays, they tend to wash out in the sun...

I also agree that gps tracking can have errors...but at its cost and ease of setup, it's hard to overlook...

ultimately, I want to be able to log and download my data for some analysis at home/trackside. I really have no intention to set it up like a game of GT5 tracking my sector times while I'm driving...

I'm still finding it hard to fault the MaxQData DIY, as it's currently free and I'd only ever need the $50 license for 10Hz sampling...the pricing I've found for the PerformanceBox is really tempting...but even at $420 shipped, that's 370 I'd rather put towards my tires fund...

[Fobio]

So I've been pretty much happy with the MaxQData pkg and am upgrading as we speak...but in the meantime, this comes out:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/07/29/dynolicious-turns-iphone-into-cheap-performance-meter/

Dyno/Accelerometer/Speedo on your iPhone!

I might give this a go for $13...

EDIT: this seems to be a drag-racing focused app, and not for lap timing...we'll see how that may progress...

[Fobio]

It's been a few yrs since we have revisited this. MaxQData, tho still functional, appears to have ceased support and development. I never got the video overlay option to sync right...likely due to running it a netbook.

Fast forward to 2012...MBNTO have been using a lap timer/video outlay program for the Android phone and the results are stunning! I have also been trying Harry's Lap Timer for the iPhone and the results are pretty good tho I don't have any track vids taken with it...yet.

Of course, the reason for a lap timer is to be able to gauge your progress...rather than just lapping and using a stop watch.

The traditional solutions (transmitter/transceiver combo's) such as Aim's and others are also popular...esp since some tracks now have buried signalling devices.

So anyone else? Maybe we can get MBNTO to elbaorate on his setup in preparation for the TM3 2012 Drivers' Meeting/Seminar.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

It's been a few yrs since we have revisited this. MaxQData, tho still functional, appears to have ceased support and development. I never got the video overlay option to sync right...likely due to running it a netbook.

Fast forward to 2012...MBNTO have been using a lap timer/video outlay program for the Android phone and the results are stunning! I have also been trying Harry's Lap Timer for the iPhone and the results are pretty good tho I don't have any track vids taken with it...yet.

Of course, the reason for a lap timer is to be able to gauge your progress...rather than just lapping and using a stop watch.

The traditional solutions (transmitter/transceiver combo's) such as Aim's and others are also popular...esp since some tracks now have buried signalling devices.

So anyone else? Maybe we can get MBNTO to elbaorate on his setup in preparation for the TM3 2012 Drivers' Meeting/Seminar.

blast from the past!

I wrote in another thread some timing solutions that make use of either iOS or Android smartphones and will paste most of it here and elaborate where I can...

for both the first timer (pun intended) out to the track or one that has been going to the track for years and wants to start timing themselves, a smartphone in combination with an "app for that" makes the most sense.... except for you BlackBerry and Windows Phone users (notice I didn't say Windows Mobile, because MaxQData still works for a PocketPC-based Windows Mobile device :P ).


iOS - iPhone

Harry's Lap Timer - one of the most popular on iOS (http://www.gps-laptimer.de/Home.html)

Personally, I have not played with Harry's Lap Timer since I don't own an iDevice. There are some limitations with a non-jailbroken iPhone in that you cannot connect a Bluetooth 10 Hz GPS receiver to the iPhone for greater accuracy in lap times.


Android

Since I have an Android phone, I can speak to the 2 apps that I have used:


aLapRecorderHD (http://adyno.net/) - for Android. I've used this to make last year's track vids with data. Records video, bluetooth GPS and bluetooth OBD-2 data on the phone. However, the developer has gone AWOL and it doesn't work well on ICS but fine on Gingerbread.

What I like about aLapRecorderHD, and why I flash my phone back to a Gingerbread ROM exclusively for this app, is that it does the video and overlay playback right on the phone. You can then set start/stop and sector(s) markings AFTER the session has been recorded.

It is also the only lap timing app that interfaces with OBD-2 via Bluetooth *within* the app.

From this, you can get the following OBD-2 parameters (note, the more parameters you choose, the lower the logging rate):

* Speed
* Throttle Position
* Engine RPM
* Mass Air Flow
* Air Intake Manifold Presure (boost)
* Engine Load

Speed is on by default, the rest are selectable. I choose to log RPM and Boost as, when reviewing the video, Boost psi gives you some idea of throttle position. For NA guys, the Throttle Position option is there.

Then, on the video, you can choose from "gauges" to see this info overlayed onto the video. The gauges to choose from include:

* Speed (selectable from GPS-based and/or OBD-2 based)
* Engine RPM with Gear Indicator
* Any of the recorded OBD-2 parameters
* Current Lap Time counter with Last Lap Time and Fastest Lap Time displayed
* Horsepower
* Torque
* Altitude
* Acceleration in Gs
* Lateral Acceleration in Gs
* G-force circle

The HP and TQ are calculated based on the following factors you must enter: weight (Vehicle Weight, Additional Weight), Drivetrain Loss in % (enter 0% if you want whp), Rolling Resistance (the default is fine), Drag Coefficient in Cd, and Frontal Area in m^2

The Gear Position is calculated based on the following factors you must enter: individual gear ratios, final drive ratio, and Tire circumference (the forumla is given in the app).

You can use either the phone's GPS (at 1 Hz) or a Bluetooth GPS receiver up to 10 Hz. I had to put my BT GPS receiver down to 4 Hz so that my phone (HTC Incredible S) could handle 720p video + OBD-2 + BT GPS at the same time.

You can also quickly review lap/sector times, max speeds, avg speeds, min speeds, split times, split speeds.

There is also the option to review graphs of Speed, Acceleration, and Lateral Acceleration.

The one drawback is that you can't export/save the video with the in-app gauges overlayed onto the video. The app overlays the gauges onto the video in realtime based on log files it keeps. What you can do is export the data in the following formats:

* Google Earth (.gpx) - this is quite cool as you can load it into Google Earth and replay it in a funky 3D render

* RaceRender2 (.csv)

* RaceChrono2AVI (.csv)

* Video VBox (.VBO)

I bought Race Render 2 (http://www.racerender.com/RR2/Features.html) to combine the .csv exports and video together ... it sounds like a lot of work but, when the video and data files are already in sync time wise, it's pretty much load into Race Render and hit GO to create the video.

Even though development has stopped on aLapRecorderHD, I would highly recommended as it is quite full featured and just works.



Trackmaster (http://trackmaster.trackaroo.com/welcome) - for Android. I've used this as well. Not as "user friendly" as aLapRecorder but the dev is an avid track freak and is constantly updating. Also records video, bluetooth GPS but not OBD2 data, when compared to aLapRecorderHD.

Where it fails in comparison to aLapRecorderHD is:

* Start/Finish and sector markings must be done BEFORE the recording on a "Split Markers" setting for each track. Where I had issues with this is that, if the line it traces while you drive *does not* cross the marking, the app WILL NOT register it and won't give proper timing values. For instance, my guess as to where my car would have been on the track was off by a bit and my on-track lap time was over 4 minutes (meaning it didn't register 4 laps)

* Video is not in HD (720p) as it claims; plus, you cannot review the video and track info at the same time. The video file is meant to be combined in another app like Race Render after the fact

* Does not interface with OBD-2 within the app. The forums state you can use Torque to log OBD-2 parameters but then you have to deal with multiple data files to sync, again, after the fact.


Standalone Lap Timing Devices

There are also standalone GPS units:

AIM Sports SOLO (http://www.aimsports.com/products/solo/index.html)

GTech Pro Fanatic (http://www.gtechpro.com/ss_fanatic.html)


There are options and, for the money, the smartphone ones offer a lot of value for the money (you've already paid for the phone so $5 or so for the app is a deal). If you decide to get a smartphone app, invest in an external 10 Hz GPS receiver (~$75)... the internal 1 Hz GPS on a phone doesn't cut it when you're trying to improve in tenths and hundredths of a second.