Next set of Speed3 mods CPE vs Cobb

[MSMitch]

Okay, I KNOW there are a lot of threads dealing with Speed 3 mods, but none as recent since COBB has been all over the market.

I currently have the CP-E CAI and TWM STS.
I'm not too interested in making the car much louder, just looking for a little more power.
Some things I have been considering:
1st: CP-E DP vs Full cat back (with 12" muffler and the quad doo-hicky to keep her a little more quiet) - how much extra power vs noise with the whole enchilada?
2nd: Cobb FMIC
3rd: CP-E throttle "map" vs Cobb AP

Oh yeah, what about BOV - only good for sound effects?

Opinions - priority of mods and parts?

Thanks for any input...

[WeatherB]

I too am looking into the CPE or COBB downpipe... I saw some videos of the CPE DP with the stock cat-back exhaust and it didn't make it too much louder. It did change the tone, but I think it sounds even better.

The thing that's stopping me is that fact that the catted one costs about $800 and you may still get a CEL.

So our cars have two cats right? One on the DP and another on the midpipe? If so, why not just get the TurboXS DP without a cat and just re-use the stock midpipe? The TurboXS is only about $250.

[Fobio]

So our cars have two cats right? One on the DP and another on the midpipe? If so, why not just get the TurboXS DP without a cat and just re-use the stock midpipe? The TurboXS is only about $250.

That's what alhope is doing...you guys should ask him about it...

As for mods...it's never a cp-e vs cobb things...esp for guys with 2007 MS3's, they had to use parts available at the time and many stage 2+ guys are running Cobb AND CP-E stuff together...without elaborating, let's just say that tuning a modified car IS NOT EASY NOR CHEAP...and be prepared for some headaches and heartaches...neither camp has fully flushed out their tunes...but the only thing stopping these guys is time, so give themmenough time and either/both camps with produce results...both good companies IMO with really smart ppl...

I like the CP-E DP right now, but the Cobb FMIC looks sweet...I can prolly run both right now, but I'd rather spend more $ on driver mods right now and keep my car sounding and looking stock...maybe next yr, I'll go full Cobb DP/FMIC...esp if there are GB prices... ;)

As for the flash, sorry I'm lazy to link you, but there are so much resources on the pros and cons of each...but one thing for sure: if you like your warranty, definitely go Cobb AP...

[kid_icarus]

i've been thinking the same things in the long run.
if you look at uou's post under his FMIC review, he answered a question of mine stating what he thinks are the most significant mods

1. downpipe
2. fmic
3. intake

so naturally i think the "cheapest" and best option is a downpipe

TurboXs Option is for a heck of a good price

Pat said the Cobb downpipe will replace the midpipe too so i can imagine the cobb being inbetween cp-e's pricing and the turboxs

either way both are very good quality from what i gather, you can't go wrong.

i guess i have the same questions about the cats and how each brand addresses the cat converter.

[CanadaGTO]

Cobb pre-prod downpipe:

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d32/iwannaratrod/DSC05579.jpg

Notice no CAT??? They say there will be one, but none in this picture.

[kid_icarus]

how easy is it for a dealership to void your warranty if you have a downpipe? and/or give you trouble for it?

i know the typical they gotta PROVE it was your downpipe... if there are issues
but whats the likelihood?

i don't wanna be spending $$ removing it and installing it ifi ever need to go into dealer for recalls or issues

[Fobio]

Cobb pre-prod downpipe:

Notice no CAT??? They say there will be one, but none in this picture.

Thanks for clarifying that Pat...I was looking at that a few weeks ago and thought the same thing but didn't bother asking...looks nice cat-less, but I wouldn't bother with the potential issue of it anyway...what do you think?

[CanadaGTO]

Thanks for clarifying that Pat...I was looking at that a few weeks ago and thought the same thing but didn't bother asking...looks nice cat-less, but I wouldn't bother with the potential issue of it anyway...what do you think?

With CATless you're asking for trouble down the road. Not so much CEL's, which can be cleared, but with MOT goons.

I'm happy with my TurboXS/Vibrant combo, but I think the Cobb will be a hot seller depending on price.

[WeatherB]

With CATless you're asking for trouble down the road. Not so much CEL's, which can be cleared, but with MOT goons.

I'm happy with my TurboXS/Vibrant combo, but I think the Cobb will be a hot seller depending on price.

Very interesting... So the one CAT is enough to filter out the stink? Any issues with CELs, if no, how did your mechanic attach the O2 sensors?

[CanadaGTO]

Very interesting... So the one CAT is enough to filter out the stink? Any issues with CELs, if no, how did your mechanic attach the O2 sensors?

I get no stink with my setup. I do however get a CEL every once in a while. I zap it with my Dashhawk and go on my merry way :)

[kid_icarus]

I get no stink with my setup. I do however get a CEL every once in a while. I zap it with my Dashhawk and go on my merry way :)

the cobb ap can "zap" away cel's too right?

i guess my question is... if you include cat in your setup
does it hinder the "full" performance gains possible from the downpipe?

in my mind the logical answer is yes... but can you confirm?

based on the cp-e webste... it says you MUST include cat..
without cat = race use only
i know ppl don't care about this "rule"

but seems that having a 'cat' is recommended for daily use and consideration of others around u? lol

[CanadaGTO]

the cobb ap can "zap" away cel's too right?

i guess my question is... if you include cat in your setup
does it hinder the "full" performance gains possible from the downpipe?

in my mind the logical answer is yes... but can you confirm?

based on the cp-e webste... it says you MUST include cat..
without cat = race use only
i know ppl don't care about this "rule"

but seems that having a 'cat' is recommended for daily use and consideration of others around u? lol

AP can clear codes as well.

Any restriction will "hinder" gains a little, but at least one CAT should be a minimum to prevent stink as well as keep it somewhat legal.

CP-E says it must have a CAT due to legality rules, keep in mind that the TurboXS/Vibrant combo does have a CAT, just not between the 2 O2 sensors.

[WeatherB]

AP can clear codes as well.

Any restriction will "hinder" gains a little, but at least one CAT should be a minimum to prevent stink as well as keep it somewhat legal.

CP-E says it must have a CAT due to legality rules, keep in mind that the TurboXS/Vibrant combo does have a CAT, just not between the 2 O2 sensors.

Very interesting. Just found out that it also comes with an anti-fowler for the O2 sensor to reduce the chances of CELs.

Anyone sell the TurboXS locally?

[kid_icarus]

Very interesting. Just found out that it also comes with an anti-fowler for the O2 sensor to reduce the chances of CELs.

Anyone sell the TurboXS locally?

as usual the answer is Patrique sells them

[RX9]

pat can get CPe as well.

[WeatherB]

as usual the answer is Patrique sells them

Thanks. Is there anything he doesn't sell? LOL

[kid_icarus]

Thanks. Is there anything he doesn't sell? LOL

hot imported import models

but i hear he's working on finding us a supplier so we can get a group buy in lol

pat we're counting on you!! don't let us down


pat how much is the "stealth" back turboxs? aka the downpipe + mid/race pipe?

i hear having that combination is better than just the downpipe alone?
or are those peices what you've been referring to the whole time

[CanadaGTO]

To be honest you're better off getting the Vibrant instead of the stealth back, though I'll get pricing for you.

The Vibrant replaces both the mid pipe and the CAT back, and includes a high flow CAT in there.

I do officially carry CP-e, but I'll warn you, pricing is a real bitch due to shipping.

[mleblond]

downpipe and FMIC will give your warranty problems....but Downpipe is your best power mod followed by FMIC. Just dont go see mazda anymore. I have my 24k service to do soon....and not in a hurry to get it done....

[MSMitch]

Thanks for the info y'all!!!
I was worried about potential warranty issues (and I forked out for the extended warranty too!). BUT, I will probably go with the DP (likely CP-E) and Cobb AP after that. Unless I come into some $$ and trade up to a WRX STi (currently the ONLY other car out there that I would (realistically)consider trading my car in for) :chuckle

[silvermist99]

Thanks for the info y'all!!!
I was worried about potential warranty issues (and I forked out for the extended warranty too!). BUT, I will probably go with the DP (likely CP-E) and Cobb AP after that. Unless I come into some $$ and trade up to a WRX STi (currently the ONLY other car out there that I would (realistically)consider trading my car in for) :chuckle

sorry for a little OT but.. 135i!!!!!! the wrx's trunk & backseat is pretty useless anyways you might as well go twin turbo!

[mleblond]

Thanks for the info y'all!!!
I was worried about potential warranty issues (and I forked out for the extended warranty too!). BUT, I will probably go with the DP (likely CP-E) and Cobb AP after that. Unless I come into some $$ and trade up to a WRX STi (currently the ONLY other car out there that I would (realistically)consider trading my car in for) :chuckle

STI's are nice but you will lose a lot of money. Plus canadian price is way off from my understanding....I hear a guy got one for 35k from Washington...

either way I love my mazda :chuckle

[WeatherB]

I saw a discussion on another forum where they suspect that aftermarket downpipes are the cause of leaky turbos?!?

Something about changing the pressure inside the turbo causing the seals to get pushed out.

[MSMitch]

I "know a guy" who owns a few dealerships in the US (Subaru included) so he MAY be able to hook me up when the time is right.
The Bimmer is nice, but I need a hatch for my German shepherd and some room in back for car seats as well - from what I understand there is a tiny bit more space in the WRX, but I have et to try one on for size - and of course, AWD is a nice all weather touch!!
But unlike other cars I've owned (including a GTI VR6, A4 1.8T, Audi Coupe Quattro to name a few) - this is the first time that I have owned a car and NOT had the urge to trade up to something else after a year of ownership!
The STi would be great, but not something that I am obsessed with owning.
I too love my Speed3 and am hence more interested in modifying it (for fun, not because I find it underpowered) over getting another car! :chuckle:)

[SP33D 3]

Thanks for the info y'all!!!
I was worried about potential warranty issues (and I forked out for the extended warranty too!). BUT, I will probably go with the DP (likely CP-E) and Cobb AP after that. Unless I come into some $$ and trade up to a WRX STi (currently the ONLY other car out there that I would (realistically)consider trading my car in for) :chuckle

my speed eats STis for breakfast :)

[MSMitch]

Except in the snow, rain and ice, oh and dirt. :) The ONLY reason I would consider the trade is for the AWD - Speed 3 with AWD and I'm in!!!!

[silvermist99]

I "know a guy" who owns a few dealerships in the US (Subaru included) so he MAY be able to hook me up when the time is right.
The Bimmer is nice, but I need a hatch for my German shepherd and some room in back for car seats as well - from what I understand there is a tiny bit more space in the WRX, but I have et to try one on for size - and of course, AWD is a nice all weather touch!!
But unlike other cars I've owned (including a GTI VR6, A4 1.8T, Audi Coupe Quattro to name a few) - this is the first time that I have owned a car and NOT had the urge to trade up to something else after a year of ownership!
The STi would be great, but not something that I am obsessed with owning.
I too love my Speed3 and am hence more interested in modifying it (for fun, not because I find it underpowered) over getting another car! :chuckle:)

The german shepperd will be SQUISHED in the sti! Ignore what all review says I have no idea how subaru measured their trunk its definately a lot smaller hten the ms3. The hatch is tiny and the rear window is very very slanted, it eats into the interior.

Rear seat room is also a lot smaller in sti, I find riding the backseat of a yaris roomier(im serious), rear seat room is maybe a little tiny bit better then a MK4 GTI with half the trunk size.

prehaps a 335i 4 door will work and sit your pet like this? :)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/2673438178_5b6f8a2587_m.jpg


or.. umm yeah keep modding your ms3 lol

[MSMitch]

The german shepperd will be SQUISHED in the sti! Ignore what all review says I have no idea how subaru measured their trunk its definately a lot smaller hten the ms3. The hatch is tiny and the rear window is very very slanted, it eats into the interior.

Rear seat room is also a lot smaller in sti, I find riding the backseat of a yaris roomier(im serious), rear seat room is maybe a little tiny bit better then a MK4 GTI with half the trunk size.

prehaps a 335i 4 door will work and sit your pet like this? :)
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3204/2673438178_5b6f8a2587_m.jpg


or.. umm yeah keep modding your ms3 lol

I COULD put the pup up front, but the wife may not appreciate being in the trunk!!!! :chuckle

Thanks for the input - for now, I'll keep modifying my MS3. Maybe get a 1991-2 Skyline GTR instead for winter drifting :)

[alhope34]

Rear seat room is also a lot smaller in sti, I find riding the backseat of a yaris roomier(im serious), rear seat room is maybe a little tiny bit better then a MK4 GTI with half the trunk size.




Our Yaris has much more rear leg room than my MS3 or our previous mid-size Saturn wagon.

[kid_icarus]

I COULD put the pup up front, but the wife may not appreciate being in the trunk!!!! :chuckle

Thanks for the input - for now, I'll keep modifying my MS3. Maybe get a 1991-2 Skyline GTR instead for winter drifting :)

if you're inclined start up a group buy for the gtr... if the price is right i'll jump in one one...
hell mayb ei'll even sell the ms3.... hahaha
i only want an r32 though.. hmnnnn

[MSMitch]

if you're inclined start up a group buy for the gtr... if the price is right i'll jump in one one...
hell mayb ei'll even sell the ms3.... hahaha
i only want an r32 though.. hmnnnn

I'll have to consider a GB for them - I MAY try to hold out for the R34's to be available. :pop

[TiZi]

If you are truly worried about warranty and what the dealer will do then modding" the car is not a good idea. If you are looking for the most bang for the buck modification, then it has to be an intake followed closely by a boost controller or some form of EMS. Running an intake with upped boost is good for at least 40whp. Downpipe is a good choice too just a small word of advice if I may, do not believe some numbers that either people or companies are posting about some products. Remember a downpipe on a stock motor may ad 20 to 30 whp but as your modifications progress those projections decrease. Going with a plug and play engine managament unit will provide you with a lot of gains and the potential to tune for future mods as well as piece of mind with the dealer. Hope that helps

[alhope34]

Boost controllers can be dangerous for a/f ratios with stock tune and timing. I've also heard anything above holding 17psi with this turbo just blows hot air, no matter if it is tuned or not.

[TiZi]

You are right. Boost controllers can be dangerous. As for the anything past 17 psi blowing "hot air", all I can say, it is on of the biggest misconceptions and overused terms.

Yes if you have stock MS3 you are not going to gain much going from 17 to 18 or 19 psi. But depending on your level of modifications you will see gains. I have dynoed this car over ten times since I got in January 07. Stock and then slowly as I went along. As you open the car up and start removing restrictions you can push past 17 psi. My last dyno with all the stuff I have in my sig except the CPE flash, showed 29X whp and 31Xtq while the same set up with 19 psi showed 319whp and 345 tq. Also some guys in the U.S which I have met personally run 20 psi on the stocker and theirs is not even the reworked one.

You make a good point about the boost controllers but even those can be used with considerable success and safety. Would I got one? No i wouldn't but it can be an option for someone who might want a relatively cheap power mod. As for the "hot air". That point has been touched upon on every forum and I have never seen anyone show any data (real data) not assumptions to back that up. Nonetheless you make good points.

[TiZi]

I forgot to put in 17psi. The dyno that garnered 29Xwhp was done at 17PSI. So going to 19psi and changing the PID parameters we got around 20whp more. Although not sure if the PID had anything to do with it but it did spool the turbo quicker.