Bad dealership experience – MoT [Archive]

hemlor

09-19-2008, 02:27 PM

I recently bought a 2008.5 Mazda3 sport GT in metro grey. After a couple days I noticed some dull areas on the hatch and above the gas lid on the right rear quarter panel. I called the dealer and we set up an appointment to look at the car. I brought in on the Saturday, the service guys looked at it an proceeded to ‘buff’ out the spots. They got rid of these dull areas but in the process performed what is probably the worst buffing job I have ever seen. I called them and voiced my displeasure and we quickly set up another appointment. They explained that the main guy was not there on Saturdays but that they would fix the problem by re-buffing the area and then buffing the whle car with a fine polish and then adding the paint protection. I was uneasy about this, and I told them that I would rather have a professional detailer do the job. They assured me that they will do it and it would look great, in fact they guaranteed the car would be fixed. So the next day I went to pick up the car. It was early morning so it was shady and the car was wet so I could not see the finish clearly. I drove to a nearby store, went in for 5 minutes, and by that time the sun was shining on the car and the car was dry. This is when I noticed that not only was the original area not repaired, but they introduced swirl marks and marring in the entire car, hood, door panels, and hatch included. I drove back to the dealership and told them that I was going to get a quote from a professional detailer and I would send the quote to them. The guy I was dealing with agreed. I brought the car right away to Kaval from Make it Shine, and got a detailed quote along with 40 pictures of the car. If anyone wants to see the pics let me know and I can post some. Kaval sent MoT a detailed quote along with 1 picture and a note saying that more pictures were available upon request. MoT did not request any more photos and they have denied authorization to have an outside party do the job. I have spoken to many people, including the dealership manager and they will not authorize it, but instead are asking me to bring the car in again so that they can evaluate the car and do it again. I was told that the scratches are not in the paint but rather in the wax and that they need to strip the entire car of the wax and polish it again. They expect me to let them do that after they had 2 opportunities and failed both times? I am extremely frustrated because they admit that they messed up the job twice, but promise that this time they will have qualified guys doing the job. I questioned why qualified people were not used in the first place but got no direct answer. The manager told me he wants the head detailer to look at it. I mentioned that the head detailer was the one who did the second buff job. I continued to say that if it was truly him who did it, then either he cares very little about the finished product, or his workmanship is very poor, again no response. I called Mazda of Canada but they were no help, telling me that ‘at this point we recommend you go to the dealer since they are willing to work with you, even though they have already had two chances.’ So I asked the customer relations person ‘at what point is it okay not to work with the dealer, when I have no paint left?’ or something to that effect, and again I had no answer.

I am at wit’s end, I know that I won’t have them touch my car again, unless they give me a new car if I am unsatisfied with their third attempt, but I know that they won’t do that. I guess I have to pay out of pocket to get it done by a good, reputable detailer, but they definitely left me dissatisfied, and quite angry. I don’t know how they can do job’s half-a$$ and think that it can be passed off as a completed job. I asked them what they would do in the same situation, guess what….no reply. I just don’t understand how the dealership can let their customers go dissatisfied. They just lost me as a repeat customer, as well as potential customers who may be reading this who are deciding on where they want to purchase a vehicle, all to save a bit of money now.

SpeedBaby

09-19-2008, 02:47 PM

hemlor

09-19-2008, 02:56 PM

Thanks for the fyi, that is a good question, and no, no one has questioned that. Do you know what steps I can take to see if the car has had any damage?

Thanks

Fish

09-19-2008, 03:07 PM

Hemlor, I've had a VERY similar experience with MoT and I think you might just be out of luck.

I bought an 07 Mazda 3GT Sport in July of 2007 and when the car was delivered to me, It had a few scratches as well as a mechanical issue. I was told that a) the car had no mechanical issue and b) 'bring it back when you can and we'll buff out the scratches'.

Long story short, I bought that f'n car back to the dealer no less than FIVE times and the scratches still remain to this day. I was lied to on at least two occasions when they said they fixed the scratches, but obvoiusly did not. Each time I pointed this out, they said "we must have missed it, come back tomorrow'. And like a fool, I went back again and again.

A call to Mazda of Canada yielded the same results as you and they said to just go to another dealership. Problem is that no dealership is going to fix scratches on a car as it's not a warranty issue. The mechanical issue was fixed with a software update in January of this year, but as I said, the scratches are still there.

I will NEVER go back to MoT. Even to this day, I refuse to even go into the dealership when my buddy has to go in to pick something up. I wait in the car. The service department is easily the worst service department I've ever dealt with. They'll lie to your face and then label you as a problem because you simply want them to deal with a problem THEY should have fixed.

Next time I buy a car, I won't be so eager to drive it off the lot. I won't take posession unless it's in a suitable condition. Don't fall for 'just come back' lies.

SpeedBaby

09-19-2008, 03:09 PM

go to a detail shop (or you can ask Kaval) and ask them if they have a paint thickness measuring tool. the original paint on the car measures evenly all around while repainted parts measure differently

hemlor

09-19-2008, 03:25 PM

Thanks for the replys. Fish, thanks for sharing your experience. I will not let them touch the car again so I will have Kaval do it and eat the cost. It just sucks that they treaterd me this way, and treated you the same. I'm sure we are not the only ones so hopefully more people will post any of their negative experiences. I have a question, can I go to any dealership for warranty issues, or only MoT. I am hearing a weird sound when I roll down the drivers side window (power window). It sounds almost like a grinding or rubbing sound. I want to bring it back but I don't trust them with the car anymore. Pretty sad actually that I can't even bring the car in to them, for fear that they will break something.

kaval

09-19-2008, 03:25 PM

have they asked the dealer why there were dull spots on a brand new car in the first place?

there have been a few occurrences already when the dealer would sell a damaged and repaired+repainted car as brand new....just fyi

Dull spots can occur...in fact they happen quite often. This is why I recommend new cars be prepped by a professional detailer, and not the dealership because they will not fix something like that unless the customer sees it and complains...which evidently has happened here.

Business opinion aside, I'm surprised MoT let it get this far. The damage is quite severe, not even considering that it's a new car.

hemlor

09-19-2008, 04:12 PM

Here are some links to see the damage on the right rear quarter panel.

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3919.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3920.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3921.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3922.jpg

kevcol74

09-19-2008, 04:19 PM

That is a piss poor polish job! I could do better with a bottle of Turtle Wax and a pair of old jeans!! Go back there and raise the roof man, my 2004 (same colour) looks better and I have yet to wash it since I bought it! (hence why I haven't posted any pics yet...lol) Good luck, thats definitely something to complain about!

06Touring3

09-19-2008, 04:29 PM

holy shit....that is shocking how bad of a job that is....goddamn

hemlor

09-19-2008, 08:43 PM

Yes, I know, and this is an improvement over the first attempt. Like I said, how could the head detailer look at this job and think that it was complete. Did they not think I was going to look at it? Wow, just horrible, makes me more and more angry. There are swirl marks and marring over the entire car, the door panels, hatch, and even the hood.

Holden_Caulfield04

09-19-2008, 09:57 PM

As a detailer myself, I have seen this happen over and over again and it simply a result of the limited training which dealership detailers receive and the low wages they are paid.

As long as the customers do not complain about the situation, the dealerships will continue to operate the way they do now.

mazdathree

09-21-2008, 10:41 AM

I feel for ya....thats some sloppy work....MOT has had very good reviews from all aspects but something like this is not acceptable as it would upset anyone

hemlor

09-21-2008, 03:38 PM

Yes, MoT has very good reviews, and I'm beginning to think that maybe part of the reason is representatives from that dealer contribute to this forum, and that may cause people to hesitate sharing an experience that was less then stellar. I admit that when I purchased the vehicle, the experience was fine, we got a good deal and the salesperson was great with us. But as you can see from some responses to this post, some negative experiences are coming to light. Initial purchase experience still seems good, but follow-up service not so much. I have had a negative experience not only by incompetent service staff, but also by the way they have subsequently handled the situation. This is why I am so angry, and still in disbelief.

Does anyone have the contact information for Mazda? I already emailed a manager from Mazda of Canada but no reply (big surprise) so I think I have to go one step further. In fact, can anyone recommend the next step? Would it be Mazda headquarters or is there someone else?

Thanks

mf5781

09-21-2008, 03:44 PM

hemlor

09-21-2008, 04:55 PM

Well I seem to have learned that one the hard way, but I thought by telling them that the dealers actions refelct poorly on them, they would try to rectify the situation, which, quite obviously, they haven't. I will take another course of action, I have talked to other peole who have advised me of what can be done, should I choose to follow through.

I would just really like my car's paint finish repaired, and I will get this done, just not from them.

Mazda3X2

09-21-2008, 06:34 PM

We had a very similar situation regarding our Copper Red Mica 08.5

I gave up trying to get it "fixed" by the dealer because every time we got it back, the area was somewhat larger, and still poorly polished.

My advice, give it to a professional detailer. Ours still looks like crap, but I'm going to wait now until after the winter and get Kaval from Make it Shine to work his magic.

Good luck to you, I know how bad it sucks to have a brand new car that looks as though a ten year old has been washing for 5 years with an old sock.

hemlor

09-21-2008, 08:16 PM

Sorry about your luck as well. It seems that they really don't care about keeping their customers satisified. Maybe owners should file a class-action small claims suit against Mazda dealerships. Anyone reading this a lawyer or paralegal that can give some advice...I think we have a case.

hemlor

09-23-2008, 03:05 PM

So I talked to a manger from Mazda of Canada and he told me that they can't do anything for me except file my 'case' and review it both internally and with MoT, so essentially nothing will happen. He did say to contact the manger of MoT and tell him that I have posted my negative experience and that he will lose me as a customer....blah, blah. So I called up MoT and said thanks for nothing, and that I was dissatisfied and that I ahve made a post and that they have lost me as a future customer..the response? 'That is the good thing about a free country, freedom of expression'....WOW. So that about does it for me. I hope this helps anyone thinking of going to MoT to think twice, not only from my post, but also from some of the replies. Initial customer service was good, but follow-up was unacceptable. The only positive thing is that Kaval at Make it Shine will now be giving my car the proper treatment and attention to detail that was so severly lacking at MoT.

I will update with new pics as soon as it gets done.

Thanks

S.F.W.

09-23-2008, 03:19 PM

Who were you dealing with at MoT? Because there is a Service Manager(Rick), and an overall GM/Owner Principle. If you were dealing with Rick, I would escalate beyond him.

hemlor

09-23-2008, 05:01 PM

Who were you dealing with at MoT? Because there is a Service Manager(Rick), and an overall GM/Owner Principle. If you were dealing with Rick, I would escalate beyond him.

I have spoken with Rick and also with Rui Martins, who I think is the overall manager. From what I was told, any authorization for the work to be done by an outside party must be authorized by Rui, although I don't think he is the owner.

kaval

09-23-2008, 05:09 PM

Contact the owner of the dealership. I had to do this before for my parents and I finally got somewhere.

QEWmazdaPrez

09-23-2008, 11:32 PM

It's strange that both FlipDaddy and TheBiz are from Mazda of Toronto and haven't responded. They are on the board all the time and often provide feedback in this forum.
Strange that they are silent.....
Let me know if you want one of our professional detailers to take a look a car. Maybe we can help.
Jason
Dealer Principal
Oakville Mazda
j.guttman@oakvillemazda.com

hemlor

09-24-2008, 12:15 AM

Thanks for the offer, but at this point I am so turned off of dealership services that I prefer to take it to someone that I trust, and this is the main problem, as MoT doesn't want to pay for that to happen.

I'm sure your guys over there are good, but I don't even want to go down that road ( I hope you understand that it is nothing personal to your dealrship). The service I have received has basically ruined it for any other dealer that I go to. If I have any warranty issues or service that needs to be done (like oil or regualr maintenance) I will keep you guys in mind, but I will definately keep a very close eye on these posts.

Thanks again

Jeff-TheBiz

09-24-2008, 01:48 PM

It's strange that both FlipDaddy and TheBiz are from Mazda of Toronto and haven't responded. They are on the board all the time and often provide feedback in this forum.
Strange that they are silent.....

I have been in contact with the OP by PM and have given him my advice, but not even being in the office for the past 3 weeks and having nothing to do with this sale, makes it very difficult for me to jump in and fix something.

But thanks for the comment Jason.

ptfire

09-24-2008, 02:52 PM

ptfire

09-25-2008, 01:44 PM

I really think if you want to solve this problem you are all on your own. After going through it myself don't bother waste your time with any dealership or Mazda Canada. You are going to have to fork out the money and have someone fix it for you.

FLIPDADY

09-25-2008, 07:55 PM

hemlor

09-25-2008, 09:09 PM

I was never once offered any other option besides MoT repairing the problem. There was no mention of other options or other estimates. And while we are on the subject, why would I want to use a detailer that MoT has recommended, seeing as their credibility is not the best at the moment, with me anyway. And if the issue was cost, I also offered that MoT pay for half, and that I would (even though I really don't think I should have to) cover the rest, and that way I get the person I want and they don't have to pay the whole bill, but most importantly they will have a happy customer.

It's funny that they communicated the whole situation with you, but negleted to tell me all the details...It's too bad Mazda hasn't upgraded their dealerships like they have their cars, because I fear this might be their undoing.

Let me speak for my service department since I work at MOT and deal with them on a first hand basis. Here's what I know of what's being done so far. We tried to address hemlor's paint issue on 2 occasions and you see what the results were so I don't need to repeat myself.

We then allowed him to get an estimate with a detailer (kaval). I saw the written estimate by kaval and I agreed it was quite high for the type of work that was suppose to be done. I even asked a few detailers that do cars for Mazda Canada for shows and one guy that's been detailing cars since the early 90'sand they gave me a much lower price then what kaval was charging. At this point I don't know where this issue stands.

kaval

09-25-2008, 09:42 PM

Let me speak for my service department since I work at MOT and deal with them on a first hand basis. Here's what I know of what's being done so far. We tried to address hemlor's paint issue on 2 occasions and you see what the results were so I don't need to repeat myself.

We then allowed him to get an estimate with a detailer (kaval). I saw the written estimate by kaval and I agreed it was quite high for the type of work that was suppose to be done. I even asked a few detailers that do cars for Mazda Canada for shows and one guy that's been detailing cars since the early 90'sand they gave me a much lower price then what kaval was charging. At this point I don't know where this issue stands.

This is stepping on a fine line here but I have to comment. Some feel my prices are too high, but until you see the work that is done in person, you'll continue to believe this...which by all means is fine. Asking other detailers how much to charge is completely subjective because I am sure they have not seen what else is wrong with the car. They may not even see what I see. I have worked with detailers who have been in the industry for 20 years and still can't pick up things that I see almost instantly. I'm really not trying to sound like I'm the master here, but for the sake of this I feel it's necessary to make this clear and further iterate that what one person may say is completely subjective to what someone else may say. I quoted a price that would bring the car back to the state in which it should have been delivered - brand new condition. The owner deserves nothing less. Why? Because he paid for a new car.

The pictures posted are only part of the damage to the car. For the sake of it, I will post the rest shortly and hopefully my quote will seem more justified.

I believe the owner offered to pay half for the detail and it was still refused. So if that's the case, is it an issue of MoT not wanting to pay for the detail, or something else?

Again, I'm not attacking you personally as I know this out of your scope, but these things have to be said regardless as it's getting out of hand.

Respectfully,

Kaval Vilkhu
Make It Shine Automotive Detailing

kaval

09-26-2008, 08:14 AM

Keeping in mind that lighting was limited, the damage can still be seen. I've taken multiple pics at different angles to show that it isn't just polish residue or smearing.

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3919.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3920.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3921.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3922.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3924.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3925.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3926.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3927.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3928.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3929.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3930.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3931.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3932.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3933.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3934.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3936.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3937.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3938.jpg

Continued on next post.....

kaval

09-26-2008, 08:14 AM

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3939.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3940.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3941.jpghttp://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3943.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3944.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3945.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3946.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3947.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3948.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3949.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3950.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3951.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3952.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3953.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3954.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3955.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3956.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3957.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3958.jpg

http://makeitshine.ca/Site/Pictures/marco/IMG_3959.jpg

Cardinal Fang

09-26-2008, 10:09 AM

All that damage was in the clear coat finish as a result of the buffing?

kaval

09-26-2008, 10:47 AM

All that damage was in the clear coat finish as a result of the buffing?

Taken from quote...

Issues:

- Entire vehicle displays a significant, and very heavy level of buffer trails, prominently on the rear passenger quarter panel. Other problematic areas include, but not limited to, the hood, front and rear driver’s side, and passenger side doors, and hatch which all display signs of improper buffing.

- Straight-line marring present on all doors. Horizontal pattern is indicative of contaminated media making contact with the paint work, resulting in fine scratches being instilled in the clearcoat portion of the total film build.

- Significant level of random isolated deep scratches are present, particularly on the hood.

- Product-residue left in crevices and on paint.

- Glue residue on various parts of the paintwork, ranging in 0.25” to 1.25” lengths.

- Paintwork displays an extremely dull, and faded look for a vehicle of its age. Paint is highly contaminated with environmental fall-out which must be removed promptly to prevent further damage from occurring.

Go_Habs_Go

09-26-2008, 12:49 PM

wow, that looks like some bad damage on the paint :-((

Hope it can be resolved to everyone's satisfaction...remember to keep it civil guys, even when you feel the blood pressure start to rise!!

whiteomega

09-26-2008, 03:15 PM

like everything else, dealership service experience is pretty subjective. I've had good experiences and bad experiences.

From the photos above it looks like there are problems across the entire vehicle...

One thing i would say though: wait until all your problems are resolved before coming on here and posting your negative experience. Blindsiding dealers with posts here before you have things resolved is not a good way to convince the dealership to help you.

SpeedBaby

09-26-2008, 03:30 PM

lOne thing i would say though: wait until all your problems are resolved before coming on here and posting your negative experience. Blindsiding dealers with posts here before you have things resolved is not a good way to convince the dealership to help you.

I think the whole point is that as the customer, he shouldn't have to CONVINCE the dealership to help him. Its their job to keep him satisfied considering that he paid them for a brand new product that visibly failed to meet the description.

hemlor

09-26-2008, 04:01 PM

+1

I think the whole point is that as the customer, he shouldn't have to CONVINCE the dealership to help him. Its their job to keep him satisfied considering that he paid them for a brand new product that visibly failed to meet the description.

mazdathree

09-26-2008, 07:04 PM

I think the whole point is that as the customer, he shouldn't have to CONVINCE the dealership to help him. Its their job to keep him satisfied considering that he paid them for a brand new product that visibly failed to meet the description.

absolutely....

not being partial but businesses ought to be professional for their success! I dont think its down to all the employees working at MoT as Im sure not everyone at the dealership would like this to happen but I'm sensing lack of professionalism at the management level.

mazdathree

09-27-2008, 12:41 AM

I think there is a chain reaction going on here for something only one person regretably is the victim i.e hemlor.....looks like things are being taking out of context and made complicated.....just get on with things guys and help the affected! thats all.

Think about how would anyone react if this was to happen to his/her newly bought car...simple!

whiteomega

09-27-2008, 01:01 PM

I think the whole point is that as the customer, he shouldn't have to CONVINCE the dealership to help him. Its their job to keep him satisfied considering that he paid them for a brand new product that visibly failed to meet the description.

While I see where you're coming from, were I in customer service, I'd be a lot more amenable to helping someone resolve problems if I knew that my every word wasn't going to be repeated on a public forum, immortalized for time immammorial on the internet.

You're right; he shouldn't have to convince the dealership to help him, but atagonizing the dealership or its staff does nothing to help him either. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I've had good and bad experiences at MoT. Every time I've tried to deal with those involved with courtesy and respect, regardless of how much I may feel they have screwed up. I've never once had them not listen to me, or ignore me, or get angry or frustrated with me, and *that*, IMO, is the key to having a good experience.

Please don't misunderstand: I'm not saying don't post your experience; I'm saying do so after issues have been resolved and all parties involved are reasonably satisfied.

kidflash

09-27-2008, 03:02 PM

While I see where you're coming from, were I in customer service, I'd be a lot more amenable to helping someone resolve problems if I knew that my every word wasn't going to be repeated on a public forum, immortalized for time immammorial on the internet.

You're right; he shouldn't have to convince the dealership to help him, but atagonizing the dealership or its staff does nothing to help him either. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I've had good and bad experiences at MoT. Every time I've tried to deal with those involved with courtesy and respect, regardless of how much I may feel they have screwed up. I've never once had them not listen to me, or ignore me, or get angry or frustrated with me, and *that*, IMO, is the key to having a good experience.

Please don't misunderstand: I'm not saying don't post your experience; I'm saying do so after issues have been resolved and all parties involved are reasonably satisfied.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is how every bad situation should be resolved...whether it is regarding your car or not

hemlor

09-27-2008, 05:27 PM

Like I said before, I am posting my experience to let others be aware next time they are in the market for a car. This situation has been dragging for about a month now, so I think that I have waited long enough before posting on this forum. I am only posting what has happened to me, nothing more, nothing less. I don't have very much hope for a resolution from the dealer, and if I want the problem fixed properly, I will have to pay. This is also something that I think people need to know.

Thanks
QUOTE=whiteomega;341536]While I see where you're coming from, were I in customer service, I'd be a lot more amenable to helping someone resolve problems if I knew that my every word wasn't going to be repeated on a public forum, immortalized for time immammorial on the internet.

You're right; he shouldn't have to convince the dealership to help him, but atagonizing the dealership or its staff does nothing to help him either. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: I've had good and bad experiences at MoT. Every time I've tried to deal with those involved with courtesy and respect, regardless of how much I may feel they have screwed up. I've never once had them not listen to me, or ignore me, or get angry or frustrated with me, and *that*, IMO, is the key to having a good experience.

Please don't misunderstand: I'm not saying don't post your experience; I'm saying do so after issues have been resolved and all parties involved are reasonably satisfied.[/QUOTE]

HBP

09-27-2008, 05:46 PM

Wow, I feel for you hemlor.

Dealerships calling out dealerships, dealerships calling out detailers (who sponsor their board...), messed up shit man. MoT needs to pay for your ****ing damages right now! Throw in some shit too, it's a brand new car!

whiteomega, I don't agree with you at all.

HBP

09-27-2008, 05:51 PM

I can't stop looking at this thread and feeling bad for you. How the hell could those "detailers"--I use this term v. loosely, give that car back TWICE thinking it was fixed?

Did they think you wouldn't notice?

mf5781

09-27-2008, 06:07 PM

Please don't misunderstand: I'm not saying don't post your experience; I'm saying do so after issues have been resolved and all parties involved are reasonably satisfied.

I don't agree.

Hemlor has been waiting for a month and cannot get it resolved. According to you, he should not post it because it was not resolved. So when do you think he can post it? If the dealer never gives in, he can never post it?

I think Hemlor is reasonably enough to offer to pay half of the cost and waited for a month.

Propofol

09-27-2008, 06:10 PM

I hope you get this all sorted out to your satisfaction.

whiteomega

09-28-2008, 03:02 PM

I don't agree.

Hemlor has been waiting for a month and cannot get it resolved. According to you, he should not post it because it was not resolved. So when do you think he can post it? If the dealer never gives in, he can never post it?

I think Hemlor is reasonably enough to offer to pay half of the cost and waited for a month.

It certainly does suck that this has been going on a month. The situation hasn't been resolved; posting about it without telling the dealership just blindsides them and discourages them from helping you. As ever, it's the posters' discretion on when, what, and how to post; in the case were nothing gets resolved, I would simply post what's wrong, and that it hasn't been resolved, leaving off details that might irritate (or antagonize) the dealership.

Hemlor: Lord knows I agree with you; this is something to consider were I to purchase a car from MoT. A month is too long for this to go unresolved, but unfortunately, I think you are stuck with the bill at this point. The only thing I can suggest now is to arrange a meeting with the dealership, the detailer, and yourself, and see if you can't clear up any confusion regarding the quote from the detailer that the dealership feels is too high. Was the quote for the entire car, or just for the one patch that was originally reported? I have heard rumours regarding the amount of the quote, and what was quoted to be fixed, and they don't seem to match to me. Perhaps all of this was caused by a misunderstanding (but obviously not being privy to the details, I could be completely wrong).

hemlor

09-28-2008, 03:46 PM

kaval

09-28-2008, 03:49 PM

It certainly does suck that this has been going on a month. The situation hasn't been resolved; posting about it without telling the dealership just blindsides them and discourages them from helping you. As ever, it's the posters' discretion on when, what, and how to post; in the case were nothing gets resolved, I would simply post what's wrong, and that it hasn't been resolved, leaving off details that might irritate (or antagonize) the dealership.

Hemlor: Lord knows I agree with you; this is something to consider were I to purchase a car from MoT. A month is too long for this to go unresolved, but unfortunately, I think you are stuck with the bill at this point. The only thing I can suggest now is to arrange a meeting with the dealership, the detailer, and yourself, and see if you can't clear up any confusion regarding the quote from the detailer that the dealership feels is too high. Was the quote for the entire car, or just for the one patch that was originally reported? I have heard rumours regarding the amount of the quote, and what was quoted to be fixed, and they don't seem to match to me. Perhaps all of this was caused by a misunderstanding (but obviously not being privy to the details, I could be completely wrong).

Normally I would agree with you, but considering that the OP gave them another chance to fix the car in my opinion is enough leeway. Furthermore, why should a dealership (or any business) feel the need to do a better job, or fix their mistakes because someone might post their bad experience on a forum? It should be done right, the first time regardless. If I make a mistake in my work, I will fix it, not because I am worried the client might complain about me, but because I am being paid to do deliver results that were promised to the client.

I will glady post the quote to dispell any confusion, however at this point these details remain a matter that pertains to myself, the dealership and the owner. The price is to fix the entire car, as the damage is not in an isolated area; it is all over the car. I have not added anything to the quote that does not need to be done. I'm an honest person, and I conduct my business that way as well. What goes around comes around, and I want to make sure every step I take to better my business is done in the right way.

This is the issue here, as I feel the dealership does not understand the level of work needed to be done. Why? They didn't even ask for more pictures/proof to validate my quote. Almost as if they jumped to conclusions (this is only based on the 'rumours' you say that you are hearing). Heck, I didn't even receive a reply to my email, or a phone call to at least acknowledge that they have received something. So even on my level, where is the effort to work something out? I can easily send this car to Tyler from Apollo Detailing, or Kevin from GTA in Detail, and they would probably quote the same amount to fix the car.

I'm thoroughly disappointed at the way this issue has been dealt with thus far. Not even one instance of communication between MoT and myself, and there are supposedly rumours going around about the price I quoted. Not very professional IMO.

Kaval

whiteomega

09-28-2008, 04:27 PM

Again, Lord knows I agree that the job should be done right the first time. As you've said, if you make a mistake, you'll fix it, because that's what the job implies.

I would expect the same from the dealership; everyone makes mistakes, it's human nature.

Thanks for clarifying the quote; although I don't know the exact quote amount, the number I've heard (and I won't repeat it here either, because as Kaval said, this is a matter between the three parties) makes more sense to me, as it covers detailing the entire car. Now I wonder if the quote was misinterpreted, which would explain the dealership's decision to not follow through. Accidents happen; this could just be one more case of that, which is why I suggest the three parties all get together and discuss things in person.

whiteomega

09-28-2008, 04:31 PM

The quote is for the whole car, in fact Kaval posted the quote in the thread (along with photos of the damage), which was in response to a post saying that MoT felt the quote was too high. The original quote given to MoT included 1 photo, as well as access to 39 more should they request to see it. MoT took the quote and 1 photo and showed it to some other detailers who quoted them a lower price, but keep in mind they were basing this quote on one photo (and possibly what was written in the quote), as they did not ask Kaval for any more photos. At no time did they communicate any of this information to me, I had to find this out in this forum, while reading a post. So I'd like to know if you think that is fair or resonable?

No, I don't think it is entirely reasonable, though I also feel that had the quote included all relevant photos (tedious and annoying, but doable) it may have prevented confusion. If MoT was thinking just the one spot needed to be re-done, that explains a GREAT deal. As I suggested above; I'd get everyone in the same room and on the same page, and then see if something can be worked out.

Edit: What I think we have here is a communications breakdown (at no one person's fault), and the one way to resolve it is suggested above.

hemlor

09-28-2008, 09:44 PM

mazdathree

09-28-2008, 11:11 PM

considering that the OP gave them another chance to fix the car in my opinion is enough leeway. Furthermore, why should a dealership (or any business) feel the need to do a better job, or fix their mistakes because someone might post their bad experience on a forum? It should be done right, the first time regardless. If I make a mistake in my work, I will fix it, not because I am worried the client might complain about me, but because I am being paid to do deliver results that were promised to the client.

+ 1 on that....thats what professionalism is all about....

MoT is just trying to save money IMO....I dont know what your quote was but regardless, spending a few hundred dollars on getting the job done right or to fix mistakes is not going to cost MoT a great deal!

whiteomega

09-29-2008, 08:00 AM

MoT was told that the damage extended beyond the inital area and to other parts of the car. They had access to more photos if they chose to request them. I think some intiative should have been taken by them if they were serious about the quote that was presented to them. Further, I don't think it was particularly fair that they had other estimates done based on one photo. They at no time asked me to get estimates done by detailers that they deal with. I also have presented to them a compromise which I felt would have at least brought this situation to some sort of resolution, but they flat-out refused, providing me with only one solution: to have them 'fix' the problem. I hope that you are beginning to understand from this post that I have explored many options, and I have spoken with them quite extensively before creating this thread.

Yep; I get what you're saying. I still think there is a communications disconnect somewhere along the line. Do stick with it; try and get everyone in the same room, (or...forum thread?) and see if you can't work something out. Why isn't it fair that they get estimates done by another detailer, based on the one photo? You asked to have Make It Shine give you a quote; they're doing exactly the same thing. All they had was the one photo, and all their detailer had was the one photo, which means their detailer assumed that was the only area needing fixing. In my experience, if you give someone a quick way out ("contact me for further photos"), they'll never take you up on it. Ask MoT who their detailer was, and if you can show their detailer the remainder of the photos. Then ask if the quote from Make It Shine was reasonable, or if they still feel it is overpriced.

At this point, misunderstandings are in the past; let's just focus on getting this fixed.

hemlor

09-29-2008, 09:29 AM

The point is they have never actually told me that they had any other estimates done. I heard that through the "grapevine", which in itself speaks volumes of their transparency and communication. I have tried to speak to someone else from MoT and I've left 3 voice messages last week, and not one call was returned, again telling me that they do not want to deal with the situation any further, and they have no time for negotiation or compromise, does this seem professional to you? I can understand how you may think that this is a communication problem, but they know the entire situation, they have seen the quote, and the burden should not be on me to satisfy them, it should be the other way around.

whiteomega

09-29-2008, 10:14 AM

Go into the dealership and speak with them in person. Hearing through the grapevine doesn't really help matters. Get the word from the horse's mouth, and talk to them directly. If you still don't get a commitment from them after speaking to them in person, then I would say there's a serious problem. Phone calls/messages are easily forgotten when you're dealing with 40-50 people a day.

Edit: failing to return phone calls still qualifies as a communications breakdown :) When you go visit MoT, bring a copy of all the photos, and the complete quote, and leave the copy with them. If they want to ask another detailer about a quote to fix that, they'll have the complete set of photos, which should hopefully remove any ambiguity.

hemlor

09-29-2008, 11:06 AM

I appreciate your help, I will try and schedule something, but it would help if they returned a call so that I can set something up.

Thanks again

whiteomega

09-29-2008, 12:56 PM

I appreciate your help, I will try and schedule something, but it would help if they returned a call so that I can set something up.

Thanks again

Agreed. /poke MoT.

I would go in personally. It's a lot harder to ignore you that way :)

picus

09-29-2008, 02:32 PM

FWIW, my quote would have been similar to Kavals. Based on those pictures the car will need ~7-8 hours of work, so his quote is right in line with what most quality pro detailers would charge.

Go_Habs_Go

09-29-2008, 06:51 PM

This is a bit off topic but all these posts about communication breakdowns makes me think of that famous line from the classic Paul Newman movie, Cool Hand Luke:

"What we have here is...failure to communicate"

LOL...wonder if anyone here has seen that movie??

Anyway sorry, just thought I'd throw in a "light" moment but I'm definitely not trying to make light of a serious situation.

Back :OT please! :)

hemlor

09-29-2008, 08:24 PM

Well done...I like it.

This is a bit off topic but all these posts about communication breakdowns makes me think of that famous line from the classic Paul Newman movie, Cool Hand Luke:

"What we have here is...failure to communicate"

LOL...wonder if anyone here has seen that movie??

Anyway sorry, just thought I'd throw in a "light" moment but I'm definitely not trying to make light of a serious situation.

Back :OT please! :)

Brammer

09-30-2008, 11:22 PM

...wow

Makes you wonder why you have to pay for PDI in the first place?

I'm sure there are valid reasons, but cases like this don't help reassure the average cynical car buyer.

hemlor

10-01-2008, 11:59 AM

The reason I started this thread is 2 fold:

1. To make aware to owners about how the service department treated my vehicle

2. To make aware to potential car buyers the way MoT has dealt with a service issue.

So really, it is a combination of bad service, and terrible customer service. I am still waiting for a call back after leaving 3 voice messages last week.

kevcol74

10-01-2008, 12:17 PM

From just observing in this thread, I've seen something that is really not cool.
All I get is MoT looking for the easy way out, and not taking care of a customer that just spent alot of money buying their product. I don't care if its a $20,000 car or a $50,000 car, service is service.
I see MoT getting a quote based on 1 picture, that benefits them solely. And if the customer wants more, the customer has to take the time to make the situation right? Thats not how it works! "The customer is always right", apparently these guys have never heard of this.
Just think about it! So you spend $300 to make the customer happy, not a planned expense for service... I understand SOME reservations... BUT, if you spend that $300, and this customer is happy, and uses your service department all the time for maintenance and repairs for the length of their ownership with the car, don't you think that $300 is well spent?? Say they come back and buy a CX-9 down the road when the family grows, won't you be glad you "made them happy" for $300??
MoT needs to stop passing the buck, take control of the situation and stop using the "its busy with 40 customers" excuse. When I worked in parts at CT, I didn't care if 20 customers were lined up, I treated each customer with the time and respect they deserved, and took the time to get them what they needed, and happy they came to me for service. Don't you think that guy/gal in line behind them would be saying "I hope I get that treatment too!" Thats how I had certain customers request me personally on many occasion, and refuse to deal with anyone else. MoT should turn the tables, and put themselves in the customer's shoes once in a while for a reality check!

Well, thats my $0.02... :whoa

hemlor

10-01-2008, 12:31 PM

Thanks, you summed it up perfectly. The way I look at it, even if 1 or 2 of the 2000 viewers decide not to go to MoT to purchase or for service, they have lost a lot more than the money it would cost for the quote...and for what purpose? It still boggles my mind.

From just observing in this thread, I've seen something that is really not cool.
All I get is MoT looking for the easy way out, and not taking care of a customer that just spent alot of money buying their product. I don't care if its a $20,000 car or a $50,000 car, service is service.
I see MoT getting a quote based on 1 picture, that benefits them solely. And if the customer wants more, the customer has to take the time to make the situation right? Thats not how it works! "The customer is always right", apparently these guys have never heard of this.
Just think about it! So you spend $300 to make the customer happy, not a planned expense for service... I understand SOME reservations... BUT, if you spend that $300, and this customer is happy, and uses your service department all the time for maintenance and repairs for the length of their ownership with the car, don't you think that $300 is well spent?? Say they come back and buy a CX-9 down the road when the family grows, won't you be glad you "made them happy" for $300??
MoT needs to stop passing the buck, take control of the situation and stop using the "its busy with 40 customers" excuse. When I worked in parts at CT, I didn't care if 20 customers were lined up, I treated each customer with the time and respect they deserved, and took the time to get them what they needed, and happy they came to me for service. Don't you think that guy/gal in line behind them would be saying "I hope I get that treatment too!" Thats how I had certain customers request me personally on many occasion, and refuse to deal with anyone else. MoT should turn the tables, and put themselves in the customer's shoes once in a while for a reality check!

Well, thats my $0.02... :whoa

kevcol74

10-01-2008, 12:48 PM

Sad thing is I treated customers that way when I was a part timer at CT going to college... most part timers, its just a job! These guys, its their career and they can't get it right? Come on, enough with the excuses, take care of your customer!
Ultimately the company is out alot more than the $300, since they had to pay their morons in the shop to screw it up twice. But why should that be the customer's issue? He shouldn't have to suffer because the people you hired are incompetent. A happy cusomer will tell a friend. An unhappy customer will tell 10.... :complain
Somthing for those in the industry to think about.

whiteomega

10-01-2008, 04:14 PM

don't make me get on my soapbox again! :)

seriously though, there are very good points here. I'm interested in the resolution to this.

kevcol74

10-03-2008, 11:43 AM

Any updates for us??:pop

hemlor

10-04-2008, 12:33 PM

Not really, only that I have made an appointment with Kaval. I will be paying for it myself, as MoT has not replied to the last 3 voice messages I have left (and I have left the messages with one of the owners). So that is enough of an answer for me. Whiteomega suggested that I go into MoT since it is hard to ignore someone in person, but it is quite far from me and I do not have the time to do it. I will try to contact MoT again next week before my appointment but I am not holding my breath that anything will get done.

Thanks for asking

Any updates for us??:pop

Go_Habs_Go

10-04-2008, 12:36 PM

If no one has even called you back...sheesh, what's up with that?

mazdas3sporte

10-04-2008, 11:04 PM

it doesent matter if its a mazda dealership or a mercedes dealership, service these days is horrible anywhere you go, ive yet to come to a dealership that gives true service and help, last year i was at the mercedes dealership to get an oil change, after i found out i was payin $$$$$ and waiting close to 4 hours for my car to be given back I came across this older women who had brought in her SL55, she told me that she had also brought the car in for an oil change but they somehow had somehow broken her seat and it was now slumped slightly, they dident have the part to fix it and it would take 4-8 weeks for the part to come from the states.... i kno iam ranting here again lol but just goes to show it doesent matter what u pay for ur car or what u drive, service is shit anywhere u go,

MSMitch

10-05-2008, 08:19 AM

With any car manufacturer, there are good and bad places for service - I used to take my Benz in Toronto all the way to St Catherines - Performance Group - amazing service! I take my Mazdas to Scarboro or Orillia. Some dealerships are too big and the service/sale depts are completely separate entities. Others focus on getting the sale done - PERIOD, others just drop the ball every now and again (the bigger the dealership, the more balls get dropped (but the percentage stays the same)). I think it's totally valid to voice opinions on various dealerships - even before the problem is resolved - who knows, someone pissed off now may end up being very pleased in the end which (eventually) reflects well on the dealership.
Lord knows I've had my fare share of issues with MoT over the years (sales and service) as well. For those reasons I will likely not be going back there for a while. BUT, overall they have some VERY good individuals working there - but sometimes as a TEAM/GROUP, things don't always go smoothly, or (in this case it seems), get resolved quickly. Kinda like the bball "dream team" a few years back that got spanked in the Olympics. Good luck - keep us posted.

Jeff-TheBiz

10-06-2008, 12:15 AM

hemlor

10-24-2008, 09:27 AM

Sorry I haven't updated. So I decided to get the job done properly and bring it to Make It Shine. Boy oh boy, just wow. The job was done perfectly. I cannot see any of the initial damage in the rear quarter panel, and he got rid of the other swirls in the hood and doors. There are pics so they may be put up shortly. I have not heard from MoT which is really too bad, because they had a real opportunity that they let slip. Oh well, at least I paid for a job that I am happy with. Thanks again to Make It Shine for stepping up from the beginning and coming through in the end. I'm telling you, the job he did was amazing, and he was very accomodating. If you guys have any questions or comments please fire away.

Thanks for all the comments and advice.

Cardinal Fang

10-24-2008, 09:45 AM

I'm glad this got resolved for you but I'm not happy it ended up being an out of pocket expense.

kevcol74

10-24-2008, 09:48 AM

I'm glad this got resolved for you but I'm not happy it ended up being an out of pocket expense.

+1 The dealership really failed on this one. Not that I'm about to drive into Tornto for anything, but still, the dealership should have stepped up. For a couple hundred the just lost thousands of potential sales. I'm sure they are thinking "Just one customer, no big deal..." Sad.....

Glad the car turned out good though! :bana

kaval

10-24-2008, 02:48 PM

This whole situation has really left a sour taste in my mouth.
I hope MoT contacts hemlor and has some sort of explanation for the lack of correspondence because this really sets precedence on how this issue would be dealt with in the future, which from a consumer perspective is not pleasing at all.
It's safe to say I won't be purchasing a car from there in the future.

Go_Habs_Go

10-24-2008, 04:21 PM

Hey Hemlor,

Glad to see that the car is in tip top shape now!! Kaval must've done a great job on it!! Would love to see some before and after pics side by side. :)

Sorry to hear though that you had to pay for it out of pocket. It's plain ridiculous that the situation was never resolved by the dealership. :loco

mazdathree

10-24-2008, 11:17 PM

Jeff-TheBiz

10-24-2008, 11:23 PM

I am happy to hear that your car has been fixed.

Really glad I had nothing to do with this, and I sincerely wish I could have done more to help. It is unfortunate that you couldn't bring the car by for Rui to see, I am certain that the overall outcome would have been different.

5_Alive

10-25-2008, 07:17 AM

Glad to hear Kaval made it shine, and got everything taken care of for you. I'm also a detailer myself, and God that was just horrendous to look at. There is no way a "pro" detailer did that work. If it was, I wouldn't let him wash my tires, let alone wash or detail my car.

I'm upset to hear you had to pay out of pocket for it, as SOME dealers are crooked. It is certain staff, not all.

I had bought a truck back during christmas.. I went to trade on the Speed3; if it wasn't for Ajax Mazda running the VIN on the truck to notify me it was a previous rental, I would have been out lots of money. When I looked at my bill of sale, it wasn't marked as a rental. I called the dealership, and for 2.5 weeks nothing had changed, or was done. One quick, 10 minute phone call to my lawyer, settled everything in less than 24 hours. I brought the truck back with a release statement, and off I went.

Case in point; next time you get jerked around, especially in this kind of situation, call a lawyer. Hell, even have a good friend pretend to be a lawyer and call in for you. Just say "I'm representing so and so in this matter", and trust me, you will get a call back real fast.
Excuse my language, but **** do I hate liars and people that promise and do not deliver.

Anyhow, how do you like the car?

hemlor

10-26-2008, 09:23 PM

hey, the car looks awesome. I just looked at it again today, and man, it just glows. The job was really A+. Thanks for your advuice, if this happens to me again you can bet I will persue more legal options. Of course I know that it won't happen at MoT because I will not be going there again.

Thanks

mazdathree

10-27-2008, 09:04 PM

Flagrum_3

10-28-2008, 09:47 AM

post some pics of your car! :)

+1 Would love to see some pics and a break down of the process Kaval used!

It really sucks you had to pay outta pocket though! but hey what's done is done...enjoy the car! :)

_3

mazdas3sporte

10-28-2008, 08:23 PM

Fuman

10-28-2008, 08:44 PM

u can have 1000 good feedbacks for MoT but when some case like this comes up all the good feedback goes down the drain, I have soo many issues with the dealership I financed my 3 in , its mind boggling how shit there service department is.
why should one bad experience put such a big dent to a dealership?
Make sure you deal with Jeff for sales next time

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 10:31 AM

why should one bad experience put such a big dent to a dealership?
Make sure you deal with Jeff for sales next time

How can you deal with Sales for a service issue? That makes no sense!

Haven't you ever heard the old cliche:
A happy customer tells a friend, an unhappy customer tells 10.

It was in MoT's best interest to solve the problem, all they did was gave excuses and avoided it. Sure, maybe I'd buy a car from Jeff, but chances are I won't service my vehicle there... Where do dealerships make alot of money?? Service!!! Post Sale Service!

mazdas3sporte

10-29-2008, 10:44 AM

+1

How can you deal with Sales for a service issue? That makes no sense!

Haven't you ever heard the old cliche:
A happy customer tells a friend, an unhappy customer tells 10

Fuman

10-29-2008, 10:58 AM

How can you deal with Sales for a service issue? That makes no sense!

Haven't you ever heard the old cliche:
A happy customer tells a friend, an unhappy customer tells 10.

It was in MoT's best interest to solve the problem, all they did was gave excuses and avoided it. Sure, maybe I'd buy a car from Jeff, but chances are I won't service my vehicle there... Where do dealerships make alot of money?? Service!!! Post Sale Service!
The OP had this issue from when he got the car. Jeff has always delivered cars to customers in proper condition.
I have always had a pleasant experience doing service at MOT. No problems with big warranty claims on my lowered car.

Cardinal Fang

10-29-2008, 10:59 AM

How can you deal with Sales for a service issue? That makes no sense!

Reread Fuman's post.

He never said to get Jeff to deal with the service issue. He was pointing out to mazda3sporte who had a "sales" issue (how the car was financed) to deal with Jeff next time. If there would be a next time. But I don't think there would be.

Yeah if sales farks you around then go to another dealership. If service farks you around then go to another dealership. But don't automatically think the two are ever the same.

Case in point. When my wife and I bought our TSX we went to Sterne Acura then Acura of Markham. No matter what we tried Sterne would NOT DEAL. A real waste of time. So Acura of Markham got our buisness. But Sterne got our service because I know their service department. We've never been happier with their service on our car. :bang

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 11:23 AM

It was implied that sales makes everything right... but thats niether here nor there now...
I had the same sales issues when I bought my Escape. I get the Ford Family discount, so price is price, no dicker. It was the trade-in that got me. I'd go to a dealer, and the sales would low ball me on the trade, ranging from $1500-2500.... Plus, the aggressive nature of some of them really bothered me.
Went to the right dealership, out of the big city in a smaller town, and suddenly I was treated right! Also got $1000 more trade-in value than enyone else.... they got my business! Service though... they are not close or convenient, so I go close by my work... and have been very happy there too! Yet the sales there was terrible...
Seems to be a common trend maybe? lol

Fuman

10-29-2008, 12:02 PM

It was implied that sales makes everything right...
How did I imply "sales makes everything right". The original post was about when he first got the car. You are looking at this a little too broad. Fang understood what I meant.

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 12:12 PM

How did I imply "sales makes everything right". The original post was about when he first got the car. You are looking at this a little too broad. Fang understood what I meant.

The very first thread was about a service screw up, not the sale. Why would "Make sure you deal with Jeff for sales next time" solve anything?? :loco

Everyone following this topic knows its about service and the way they screwed the OP around! So you are saying that the service guys treat Jeff's customers differently? Nice way to run a dealership if thats the case...

Cardinal Fang

10-29-2008, 12:19 PM

It was implied that sales makes everything right...

No it wasn't.

Notice that he says Fuman says "FOR SALES." that's not a broad statement that implies everything. It limits his responsibility not broadens it. When a doctor tells me their specialty is ears nose and throat I don't automatically assume they should be good at urinary tract infections.

Don't ask me why I used that example.

So lets recap:

1. Mazda3sporte was not happy how his car was financed.
2. Fuman said to use Jeff next time.
3. You made the wider assumption.
4. The end I now have a headache.

Fuman

10-29-2008, 12:24 PM

The very first thread was about a service screw up, not the sale. Why would "Make sure you deal with Jeff for sales next time" solve anything?? :loco

Everyone following this topic knows its about service and the way they screwed the OP around! So you are saying that the service guys treat Jeff's customers differently? Nice way to run a dealership if thats the case...
here is what the OP said

I recently bought a 2008.5 Mazda3 sport GT in metro grey. After a couple days I noticed some dull areas on the hatch and above the gas lid on the right rear quarter panel.
I am saying, if you deal with Jeff, he will make sure this didn't happen to begin with because cars Jeff has always delivered cars in the proper conditions. (I am assuming the OP miss those issues when he picked up the car)

Hope this solves the mis-communication

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 12:32 PM

Although I agree that I take things with a grain of salt, and try and seperate the good (Jeff/sales) from the bad (service), it does reflect on the dealership as a whole. You hear about a bad experience from MoT, doesn't matter if its sales or service to the average joe buying a car. A bad experience from MoT is a bad experience. And the chain of events still follows :
"A happy customer tells a friend, an unhappy one tells 10"

It would be nice if people weren't so narrow sighted, I agree, but most are not educated enough in these areas to make that decision. "I heard MoT is bad, i'm not going there"... service or sales, it carries the name MoT.

I'm not trying to downplay Jeff, sounds like he has his act together.... but service doesn't, and that reflects on the dealership as a whole.

"Make sure you deal with Jeff for sales next time" implies Jeff's customers don't have issues at all... Pretty bold assumption.

I get it, Jeff is good... but this thread definitely tells me MoT is lacking something in this case. I'm not trying to nail them to the wall, nor praise them. Just stating facts and opinions.

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 12:36 PM

here is what the OP said

I am saying, if you deal with Jeff, he will make sure this didn't happen to begin with because cars Jeff has always delivered cars in the proper conditions. (I am assuming the OP miss those issues when he picked up the car)

Hope this solves the mis-communication

Did we forget to continue the quote for a reason.. oh, to try and prove YOUR point...

Here is all of it...

"I recently bought a 2008.5 Mazda3 sport GT in metro grey. After a couple days I noticed some dull areas on the hatch and above the gas lid on the right rear quarter panel. I called the dealer and we set up an appointment to look at the car. I brought in on the Saturday, the SERVICE guys looked at it an proceeded to ‘buff’ out the spots. They got rid of these dull areas but in the process performed what is probably the worst buffing job I have ever seen."

Right from the beginning... SERVICE!!!!
So basically you say the other sales guys don't deliver their cars in tip top shape there, only Jeff does that... More good news for MoT! NOT! :bang

Fuman

10-29-2008, 12:53 PM

Did we forget to continue the quote for a reason.. oh, to try and prove YOUR point...

Here is all of it...

"I recently bought a 2008.5 Mazda3 sport GT in metro grey. After a couple days I noticed some dull areas on the hatch and above the gas lid on the right rear quarter panel. I called the dealer and we set up an appointment to look at the car. I brought in on the Saturday, the SERVICE looked at it an proceeded to ‘buff’ out the spots. They got rid of these dull areas but in the process performed what is probably the worst buffing job I have ever seen."

Right from the beginning... SERVICE!!!!
So basicall you say the other sales guys don't deliver their cars in tip top shape there, only Jeff does that... More good news for MoT! NOT! :bang

I never dealt with any other person in the sales department. I also know most members here brought the cars from Jeff with no similar issues. Hell we have a "did you buy your car from Jeff" thread.

I never said, and did not mean to imply that only Jeff does a good job. However, Jeff has proven to us he does a good job from beginning to end, and to my recollection never failed anyone.

If the car was delivered in the proper condition, will the OP have this problem? No.

If you want to keep arguing, feel free to PM. I don't want to continue going off topic.

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 12:59 PM

Zoom Zoom Boy

10-29-2008, 02:07 PM

Wow, I've missed a lot of posts today.

Carry on...:pop

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 02:10 PM

Are we entertaining you well enough? lol

Zoom Zoom Boy

10-29-2008, 02:11 PM

"...When a doctor tells me their specialty is ears nose and throat I don't automatically assume they should be good at urinary tract infections.

Don't ask me why I used that example.

Hey Fang. So how come you used that as an example???:pics

Zoom Zoom Boy

10-29-2008, 02:12 PM

Are we entertaining you well enough? lol

Just trying to add a little levity to the back and forth... :)

Fuman

10-29-2008, 02:27 PM

Have I ever said anything negative towards Jeff? No. But Jeff does not represent MoT as a whole. Hell, I already stated that I'd go see Jeff is I was looking for a new car, he has built quite the solid rep out here! But, thats just it now, I'd be going to see Jeff, not MoT.
What would happen if this was a mechanical issue? How could Jeff's perfect delivery condition save that? Its simply a bad service experience that unfortunately DOES weigh on MoT as a whole.
It is likely that the OP's situation would of been avoided if OP dealt with Jeff.
Did the service department not step up in this case? yes
However, I see this as an isolated incident.

Mechanically, I can vouch for Vincent the service adviser and MOT has always fixed my mechanical issues. They replaced my engine mount, power windows and another major part of my car.

Should this put a big dent to MOT (this is the comment where I first posted), No.

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 02:41 PM

But, alas, it does. I've never used MoT, like many out here. And when I read a post like this, and how they dealt with it, isolated incident or not, it makes my decision easy, I won't deal with their service department.
Therefore, yes, it CAN put a big dent in MoT's reputation unfortunately. If suddenly the OP posts something about MoT now stepping up, then it might affect my decision... but until that happens, I already know that I will avoid them.
All I get from what you are saying is that the OP should have dealt with Jeff, so sucks to be him... Jeff, or any other sales guy there, you SHOULD always get the same treatment... Should, but not always the case. Sounds like Jeff goes above and beyond, which is Kudos to him!

Lets have a chime in on who now, after reading what happened to the OP, have a negative view on MoT!
I, for one, have a negative view on MoT, service in particular, after reading the OP's issues and treatment.

Fuman

10-29-2008, 03:18 PM

kevcol74

10-29-2008, 03:24 PM

You know Fuman, if I am in the area around oil change time, I think I'd give them a try, then I can get a first hand experience with them. As it is, I'm not happy with the dealership close to my work, they did not handle my warranty issue well, and balked at any TSBs I mentioned ("TSB is not warranty") Plain and simply Guelph City Mazda lost my business.
My point to most of this is that 1 bad experience can weigh more heavily on a dealer's rep than you might think. I used to run a garage of 10 mechanics and 4 installers.. I became aware quite quickly who to trust and who not to. Works the same way for dealers.

hemlor

10-29-2008, 04:22 PM

You're probably right that it won't put a big dent, although that is subjective. What if 1% of the viewers of this thread decide not to go to MoT because of what happened? Even if one person decides not to, they lose more money than if they satisfied me as a customer. I don't think the salesperson was the proble, I had a great sales experience, it was the after sale experience that was pretty terrible, and to me that lies mostly with the service staff and the GM.

I'll try to get some pics

It is likely that the OP's situation would of been avoided if OP dealt with Jeff.
Did the service department not step up in this case? yes
However, I see this as an isolated incident.

Mechanically, I can vouch for Vincent the service adviser and MOT has always fixed my mechanical issues. They replaced my engine mount, power windows and another major part of my car.

Should this put a big dent to MOT (this is the comment where I first posted), No.

kaval

10-29-2008, 04:31 PM

I'll try my best to get some pics up by the end of the week. There won't be a write up for some time however as I simply have too much on my plate at the moment.

Krakor

10-30-2008, 03:10 PM

Hey people.

I picked up my 2008.5 M3 Sport GT last week and I noticed a dent on the roof towards the rear of the driver side. I also noticed how crappy the tint job was. Also the rear spoiler, black part, was scratched to crap!

I brought these to Jeff's attention and he assured me he would take care of it.

I dropped my car off today.

I am hoping and praying the service team does just as good a job as Jeff did to help get my car. (Had a bad dealership experience with Erin Mills Mazda).

I am more than a little apprehensive now after hearing all these stories.

I will let you all know how it turns out when I get my car back tomorrow.

Go_Habs_Go

10-30-2008, 04:23 PM

I also noticed how crappy the tint job was.

I know that most dealerships contract out the window tinting to another company but isn't someone verifying the work that is done on the car before giving it back to the customer? sheesh! (sorry but crappy window tinting is a real pet peeve of mine...it's not friggin rocket science!!)

anyway Krakor, I think you would probably be better off starting another thread with this info instead of hijacking this one LOL!

Now I get to use this graphic, yay!

:TJ

Krakor

10-31-2008, 09:44 AM

Yes you're probably right.

I finally get to use this symbol for myself now!

:AH

kaval

10-31-2008, 04:19 PM

Here's a couple of teasers. Sun was already down so I couldn't get any sun pics to show the perfected paint.

http://www.makeitshine.ca/kaval/randoms/IMG_4944.jpg

http://www.makeitshine.ca/kaval/randoms/IMG_4964.jpg

Donutz

10-31-2008, 08:22 PM

^^ Holy crap dude! I have to get you to work on my paint next year. I thought my paint is looking pretty good, but that's just awesome!

Krakilin

10-31-2008, 09:42 PM

I haven't been on this forum in a while... and WOW, that was alot of entertaining reading, it was a frustrating one too... all I have to say is that I will never go to MoT now, and I will tell all my friends who's interested in buying a Mazda to never go to MoT...

We're all human, we make mistakes... so just fix it and that's that... but making the mistake and NOT fixing it is unforgivable, I still can't believe they made you pay out of your own pocket to fix your BRAND NEW CAR, and they never called you back, that's just not right...

One thing i would say though: wait until all your problems are resolved before coming on here and posting your negative experience. Blindsiding dealers with posts here before you have things resolved is not a good way to convince the dealership to help you.

I totally disagree what WhiteOmega said here, the whole problem was MoT was UNWILLING to resolve the problem, or another way to look at it is that the issue is already resolved, which is MoT not willing to help... the OP had every right to post here with his situation, sharing the story with us and asking for advice. The OP wasn't blindsiding MoT, it's MoT that blindsided the OP here.

Flagrum_3

10-31-2008, 09:59 PM

Friggen awesome work Kaval!! You definately will be doing my car come next spring!

_3

Krakor

11-02-2008, 10:53 AM

I can't speak for all sales people, but dealing with Jeff (The Biz) at MoT is a great experience. However, the service work is another story.

Finding new scratches on my car after taking it to them to fix work that was not right when I picked up my car.

Now I gotta go back again.

It is getting me pretty pissed off.

Jeff has been doing everything he can to help me, I have to give him credit. But when you promise the world, and the people who are supposed to back you up don't do as they are expected... Well then you run into situations like this thread.

Service people need to listen up and take care of these cars as if they were their own.

I hate to keep venting but some silly crap keeps happening and it is inhibiting the enjoyment of my new car.

Frustrating as hell.

I am afraid to go back to MoT for any service work. I don't even want them to wash my car.

However, if I were to buy another Mazda, I would definately go see Jeff @ MoT.

I know, I know, but Jeff has given me great service. It's not his fault the service personnel screw things up. But I bet if Jeff did the work himself, non of us would have anything to complain about... except maybe that there was only one of Jeff!

kaval

11-02-2008, 11:34 AM

Did the service personnel not see this thread or not have a talk?

Give me a shout if you want me to look at your scratches.

mazdas3sporte

11-02-2008, 10:55 PM

kavals work is always perfect, its all about the dedication,

doing work fast and trying to make a quick buck like some dealer so called "detailers "wont get u anywhere, the word of mouth is the biggest form of advertising .

great job once again,

wikdslo

02-11-2009, 09:02 AM

So lets recap:

1. Mazda3sporte was not happy how his car was financed.
2. Fuman said to use Jeff next time.
3. You made the wider assumption.
4. The end I now have a headache.

So what you're saying is, that the only redeeming quality that MoT seems to have at this point is this salesman named Jeff, but that really only counts as long as you are buying, after that you're on your own as he can't make the service department do their job properly, or the owners deal with issues in a reasonable time frame/manner that won't leave the vehicles owner out of pocket for time/money wasted on repeat trips?

What incentive is there to buy from a dealership that you're likely to leave in frustration and end up with a hefty bill to fix items other dealers won't even listen too (ie. scratches?)

Jeff has been doing everything he can to help me, I have to give him credit. But when you promise the world, and the people who are supposed to back you up don't do as they are expected... Well then you run into situations like this thread.

I am afraid to go back to MoT for any service work. I don't even want them to wash my car.

As for the whole hemlor issue with the paint, etc, I know it was mentioned to contact Rui directly by GOING IN to the dealership.. sad part is the OP did that, a few times, and called to try and talk/arrange something, where was RUI then?

Why should the OP have to make a 3rd.... 4th? trip back to the dealership on HIS time to talk to someone who MIGHT look into the case for him.
No initiative shown by the dealer on that part.

I know I'm new on here, but being that i'm in the works of purchasing a Mazda 3 in the near future, I have read a TON of posts about the cars, sales, reviews, options, etc.

I read through all 5 pages and had to post my thoughts/comments on this.
I'm not new to car forums.

kevcol74

02-11-2009, 09:17 AM

So what you're saying is, that the only redeeming quality that MoT seems to have at this point is this salesman named Jeff, but that really only counts as long as you are buying, after that you're on your own as he can't make the service department do their job properly, or the owners deal with issues in a reasonable time frame/manner that won't leave the vehicles owner out of pocket for time/money wasted on repeat trips?

What incentive is there to buy from a dealership that you're likely to leave in frustration and end up with a hefty bill to fix items other dealers won't even listen too (ie. scratches?)

I bought my 2006 Escape from a dealer that I shopped around for. Ended up being a fair ditance from home, much farther than 4 other dealerships! But I got the best deal with them, and the best sales experience! And to think I had to shop around when I already get the Ford "A" Plan (Family discount)
Point is, I secured the deal, waited for delivery (had it custom ordered), and then picked it up! Great sales experioence, well worth the drive there!
Now, I haven't been back since. Its not convenient to service it there, so I go to a more local Ford dealer, and now that its out of warranty, I'm likely to do my own oil changes in better weather. Point is, a dealership can get a good reputation for Sales, and have a crappy one for service... If I decide to buy a new car again, I'll be seeing Jeff, no question. But will I service it there? Hell no, I live in Kitchener! :chuckle

Cardinal Fang

02-11-2009, 09:32 AM

Nice! Bring up a post from 5 months ago and expect me to remember what I was implying. :chuckle I'll give it a shot though.

So what you're saying is, that the only redeeming quality that MoT seems to have at this point is this salesman named Jeff, but that really only counts as long as you are buying, after that you're on your own as he can't make the service department do their job properly, or the owners deal with issues in a reasonable time frame/manner that won't leave the vehicles owner out of pocket for time/money wasted on repeat trips?

I've heard of reading between my lines but drawing conclusions from what I haven't said may be a stretch. So let me be clear then. Jeff's not that only "redeeming quality" at M.O.T. I found my experience with their Service Dept. to be more than adequate. That doesn't negate the experiences of others though. Well that change in the future? Maybe. When it does I will address it and they (Service Dept) will fix the problems if they arise. I could care less how many times I return to the dealership for them to fix it. I won't be out of pocket....trust me.

What incentive is there to buy from a dealership that you're likely to leave in frustration and end up with a hefty bill to fix items other dealers won't even listen too (ie. scratches?)

None. But you assume that this is par for the course at M.O.T. Sure they've had some problems with service but go ahead and tell me which haven't? The board is full of bad experiences that apply to all the Mazda Dealerships in the GTA. My personal experience with Jeff and M.O.T. are great. I think by and large they are good and they've fixed any issues I've had with my car to my satisfaction. Does that mean they're perfect? Of course not. Does their service department make mistakes? The answer to that is obvious. But I'm not expecting perfection from them.

Welcome to the board by the way.

wikdslo

02-12-2009, 05:30 AM

None. But you assume that this is par for the course at M.O.T. Sure they've had some problems with service but go ahead and tell me which haven't? The board is full of bad experiences that apply to all the Mazda Dealerships in the GTA. My personal experience with Jeff and M.O.T. are great. I think by and large they are good and they've fixed any issues I've had with my car to my satisfaction. Does that mean they're perfect? Of course not. Does their service department make mistakes? The answer to that is obvious. But I'm not expecting perfection from them.

Welcome to the board by the way.

Thanks!

I hear ya on that. I know that most of the posts on the internet in regards to service, etc, tend to be categorized in the complaints department, and the good experiences often don't make it into the books for future readers.

However, it still concerns me that someone (Jeff) who is seemingly so good at what he does, doesn't offer up more in the way of follow up with his service department. If it were me working there, and I knew that a customer of mine was having issues, I wouldn't hesitate to bring it to the owner's attention if that is what it required.

Asking a person to come back again and again when you aren't even using the resources that were already provided to you (ie, pictures, quote, telephone?) seems dodgey, and down right lazy. Time out of my day is money lost. Your free time is your free time, and that much should be respected by anyone.

I've read a few posts about bad service all over the place (new and used dealers) and it sometimes makes me wonder... I know that MoT is not the only ones guilty of poor service, but I would have thought that being there is somewhat of a larger presence here from a couple of their employees, this would have been dealt with a little better.

After all, any way you slice it this comes out as PR, and it isn't really helping their rep too much for anyone that reads through this thread.

Cardinal Fang

02-12-2009, 09:02 AM

However, it still concerns me that someone (Jeff) who is seemingly so good at what he does, doesn't offer up more in the way of follow up with his service department. If it were me working there, and I knew that a customer of mine was having issues, I wouldn't hesitate to bring it to the owner's attention if that is what it required.

I'll let Jeff speak to that himself. But don't automatically assume that he has not.

I know that MoT is not the only ones guilty of poor service, but I would have thought that being there is somewhat of a larger presence here from a couple of their employees, this would have been dealt with a little better.

And herein lies the problem. Simply because Jeff and Joe and on the boards we all assume M.O.T. automatically handles their issues better than the rest. I never thought that for one minute. Call me an optimist but I assumed Jeff and Joe were here because they were Mazda3 enthusiasts. They've proven that to me because they drive the cars, come out to the meets and contribute to the forum by way of posting on topics. They're part of this community and they've been here since the inception of the original board.

Now we have two people from Oakville Mazda that have joined and are part of our Mazda family in the same way Jeff and Joe are. They will do their best to help members out but I promise you that if push comes to shove they have limits to what they can achieve with their service department over disputes.

After all, any way you slice it this comes out as PR, and it isn't really helping their rep too much for anyone that reads through this thread.

Bottom line is that Import Car Forums that deal with "Mods" don't exactly have the greatest reputation with the car companies. In one respect the companies love them as a means of marketing their products but despise them for the stigma they hold with the public. We don't help our cause when members walk into dealerships expecting the world at their feet then "explode" when they don't get it.

AND NO I'M NOT SAYING THAT THIS SITUATION WITH M.O.T. IS AN EXAMPLE OF THAT. But we have had situations that where the posters ended up deleting or modifying their threads to tone it down once they understood that the dealerships could read their posts. They posted about how they've yelled at people behind the counters. While they may have deserved that treatment and it made them feel better I can guarantee you that it's the most unproductive thing you could do.

I've had issues with cars in the past. But I've never failed to get them resolved to my satisfaction. And I attribute it to being very professional and not automatically assuming the guys behind the counter are out to screw me. That being said, your point about PR is valid nonetheless.

cwp_sedan

02-12-2009, 09:11 AM

Thanks!

I hear ya on that. I know that most of the posts on the internet in regards to service, etc, tend to be categorized in the complaints department, and the good experiences often don't make it into the books for future readers.

However, it still concerns me that someone (Jeff) who is seemingly so good at what he does, doesn't offer up more in the way of follow up with his service department. If it were me working there, and I knew that a customer of mine was having issues, I wouldn't hesitate to bring it to the owner's attention if that is what it required.

Asking a person to come back again and again when you aren't even using the resources that were already provided to you (ie, pictures, quote, telephone?) seems dodgey, and down right lazy. Time out of my day is money lost. Your free time is your free time, and that much should be respected by anyone.

I've read a few posts about bad service all over the place (new and used dealers) and it sometimes makes me wonder... I know that MoT is not the only ones guilty of poor service, but I would have thought that being there is somewhat of a larger presence here from a couple of their employees, this would have been dealt with a little better.

After all, any way you slice it this comes out as PR, and it isn't really helping their rep too much for anyone that reads through this thread.

I respect your comments but I have a few of my own, as I don't quite agree with your look on things.

It's not Jeffs responsibility to babysit the service department and how they do their job. There have been times when he has stepped up and helped when getting my car serviced and it was greatly appreciated. Joe in parts has also done the same for me and again, isn't the least bit responsible for making sure my service goes well. Both Jeff and Joe offer their assistance if it's ever needed when it does come to getting the car serviced. If either of these guys had to follow up on every car/part that was sold to make sure their service was perfect, it would be ridiculous. That's why the sole responsibility of the quality of the service should be put on the shoulders of the service dept employees alone. The only other people that should be claiming responsibility are the managers/owner and they obviously aren't as there is one employee that shouldn't be working there.

As for the service dept. Vincent and another guy (can't remember his name) are very good. Vincent always looks after me when I am there and haven't had any issues with him so far. Ali though is a whole different story. Every place will have it's faults...and MOTs is Ali. Many people get stuck with him and either end up with servicing that doesn't need to be done, paying for more than they really need to, or ends up missing a shuttle and being 2 hours late to work just because he's completely incompetent. That last shuttle bit happened to me. Vincent ended up sorting things out and actually reduced my blood pressure a bit.

It's always going to be about personal experience and everyone's will always be different, but at least we can learn who to deal with from threads like this. I will continue to go to MOT until I find the service quality on my vehicle to be below my typical standards.

mazdas3sporte

02-12-2009, 05:11 PM

read the thread I made about MoT service experience, pretty shiity dealer when it comes to service,

gonzo25

02-12-2009, 09:27 PM

read the thread I made about MoT service experience, pretty shiity dealer when it comes to service,

You mentioned you were young. How many dealers have you been to that you can judge this one as so shitty? One bad experience does not make a bad dealership. Everybody makes mistakes and has bad days at their jobs. Have you?

I would tend to follow the MANY positive reviews before I aggreed with one poorly written mega paragraph complaint.

wikdslo

04-04-2009, 08:57 AM

I respect your comments but I have a few of my own, as I don't quite agree with your look on things.

It's not Jeffs responsibility to babysit the service department and how they do their job.

Fair enough.
No, it's not his responsibility to babysit, nor did I ever say it was.
But I would only hope that Jeff, or any other salesman at MoT would care enough about their customers/business/job/dealership to WANT to make their service department do what they are supposed to.

That's not to say that MoT should have just fronted the money right away for Kaval's quote. But considering how many times hemlor went to the dealership. he gave them 2 chances to fix it which they only made it worse. Then they didn't want to pay for his 3rd party quote to fix it properly. Then they wouldn't even return his phone calls, yet wanted him to go BACK into the dealership... ?

Let me ask you, how much is your free time worth?

That's why the sole responsibility of the quality of the service should be put on the shoulders of the service dept employees alone. The only other people that should be claiming responsibility are the managers/owner and they obviously aren't as there is one employee that shouldn't be working there.

Again, just like in any business, all areas/departments need to work together and as a whole to stay viable. If they have great sales, but no one goes there because their Service is terrible... how long is it before people take their loyalty elsewhere and start buying from the dealerships that offer a good all around service from purchase to resale of a car?

I'm not blaming anyone, or pointing fingers. From my own experience in my jobs, when people came to me and complained about another area of the company I worked for (retail, sales, support, etc) I would take the time to address it and follow up with the proper parties.

I don't help only the people I sell things to...