Justified coalition goverment or coup d'etat?

[Chuckie]

In light of recent events happening in parliment.

I just want to get people's thought on what they think of this take over of power through backroom deals and non-confidence.

Will it be for the better or worse?

What do YOU think?

[alhope34]

Anything that gets Harper out of power will be for the better. Especially if Dion is leading it. He's the one that should have won the election form the start.

[rktsci]

I just think that this defies the whole democracy concept that is apparently in place with our electoral system.

Assuming that this new coalition government is given power, Dion is still stepping down in May. That leaves us with a government with no true leader figure until next spring as Dion will just be a pawn. Then the Liberal party leadership convention will then be responsible for selecting the Prime Minister. How is this democratic when only liberal party members will be able to vote? In this new scheme, will the NDP and the Bloc party members be able to vote for the liberal leadership?

In case you couldn't tell I for one don't like this. This is just adding to the instability of the country and does nothing to build public confidence. In the last election, all of the parties had their opportunity to earn support but that was not enough for them...especially Dion. I personally didn't like any of the candidates in the previous election but being in a democratic country, I respect the outcome and will follow the actions of all of the parties to see which will earn my vote in the next general election.

[Cardinal Fang]

Welcome to Parliamentary Democracy. Before anyone launches into a diatribe about how what happened is unconstitutional I've got news for you. It's not. There is nothing in the laws and statutes of Parliamentary Democracy that prohibits what happened. As a matter of fact we have had instances in Canadian history where the Governor General has allowed some form of a coalition government to be formed. All the Constitutional experts have weighed in and it's legal. So all this BS from the Conservatives about how it's illegal is just that. BULL SHIT.

Harper needed to be punished. He said in his acceptance speech that he would work with the other parties in the coming new parliament. Instead, he decided to kick them when they were down by going after the civil servants right to strike (jab at the NDP) and remove public funding of opposition parties (bigger jab at the Liberals). It's not only important to be gracious in defeat but also in victory. Instead of getting to the business of running this country Harper choose to be petty and vindictive and to humiliate the opposition but daring them to accept his terms or go to an election. Politics as usual. Well, they took the dare and here we are. You can't blame them really.

Harper deserves a good bitch slap in my opinion. Does he deserve this? I'm not convinced. And I'm not convinced this Coalition of the Dumb-asses is a good thing either. Anyone notice that Layton just could let the others have the last word? It's going to be funny to see how Dion will restrain him.

[Dave_The_BMXER]

I agree with rktsci.

To me this seems like shady buisness that goes agains what democracy should be.

I respected how the previous vote turned out and figured it would carry on as usual until the next election.

[kevcol74]

I also agree on the respecting the outcome of the election. How many people would have voted NDP if they knew they were backed by the Liberals? And Vice Versa... Last I checked, this was a democracy, not a communist country... In essence, the NDP/Liberals/Block Quebecois are just over throwing our ELECTED government. As Fang said, its not illegal or unconstitutional on paper... But it sure as hell isn't right!
FTR, I voted green....lol

[Fuman]

Look at it this way.
Liberals + NDP +BQ have more seats in Parliament. (http://www.electionresources.org/ca/)
In essence, the people we elected are saying, Harper's 'economic' is trash.

kevcol74 (in my opinion) - our elected government is saying the party in power is not doing their job.

I hope they over throw Harper.

[b3GS]

bottom line, this is certainly not the time, given the state of the economy to have this kind of instability in the government. Unfortunately.. Canadians did not vote in a majority government, therefore.. there is always a chance of this happening.

Harper made the huge mistake of trying to run things like he had a majority. He's a moron. Thing is.. I don't know who to trust anymore.. our whole political situation is a joke, and if Ottawa can't get their shit together.. we as a country are in big trouble.

Up to this point.. Harper had been telling everyone there would be a plan to help stimulate the economy... and according to the recent statement, there is no plan. So here we go again, being told one thing, yet the government does another... it's bullshit. Why can't we have a leader and a politcal party who does what they say they are going to do?? It's getting very frustrating to be a Canadian.

[kevcol74]

I'll be honest, the last person I want to see representing Canada is Dion.
I also understand we elected our government, but we did not elect them as a coalition, we elected them by individual parties. Parliament always disagrees, thats a given. But this is extreme. This is bordering the compromise of a democratic society. I wasn't happy with our choices, but we DID elect him as a majority of voters.

I personally don't think its right, we did not elect a coalition. Its as bad as the ontario law of "You can't be held to your election promises" BS.

[She_Prime]

Being an NDP supporter, I fully support this initiative taken by the Liberals/Bloc and them to unite to take down the much stronger Conservative government. They need to unite because only then they can take down the Big Blues.

Martin ****ed up our country beyond belief! No wonder our Canadian people don't want to put another Red in the big seat. And Dion to top it all off? Yeah that isn't happening.

Harper HAS done some good things for us too. We must remember this. Hey, if you bought your car during the 13% tax rather than 15% tax you just saved yourself a couple thousand. Remember that.

What is going to suck, is the Green Party will be completely annihilated. With such two strong forces Canada will ultimately have a Democrat/Republican conflict at the best and the worst of times. Green Party who? And of course NDP will have to give up a lot of its values that I felt swung my vote in their direction. But we all also know no NDPer will ever sit in the PM seat.

Most importantly to remember is to think back to about just under a decade, when a certain party called the Progressive Conservatives went to the Reform Party and said "hey want to form a coalition?" Guess what? They did, and they called themselves the New Conservatives. Was it so scary back then? Not really. Will it be now? Probably not.

We'll be ok.

[swales]

This going to be terrible for our economy, which is all I care about. Here comes the weaker loonie

[She_Prime]

This going to be terrible for our economy, which is all I care about. Here comes the weaker loonie

Our weak loonie is ultimately partly our fault. One of Canada's biggest industries is steel- primarily for the Big 3 companies which build their vehicles. When people buy overseas cars it hurts the Big 3.

I love my Mazda 3 and have no regrets getting it, but these are the facts of life.

[queens49]

Being an NDP supporter, I fully support this initiative taken by the Liberals/Bloc and them to unite to take down the much stronger Conservative government. They need to unite because only then they can take down the Big Blues.

Martin ****ed up our country beyond belief! No wonder our Canadian people don't want to put another Red in the big seat. And Dion to top it all off? Yeah that isn't happening.

Harper HAS done some good things for us too. We must remember this. Hey, if you bought your car during the 13% tax rather than 15% tax you just saved yourself a couple thousand. Remember that.

What is going to suck, is the Green Party will be completely annihilated. With such two strong forces Canada will ultimately have a Democrat/Republican conflict at the best and the worst of times. Green Party who? And of course NDP will have to give up a lot of its values that I felt swung my vote in their direction. But we all also know no NDPer will ever sit in the PM seat.

Most importantly to remember is to think back to about just under a decade, when a certain party called the Progressive Conservatives went to the Reform Party and said "hey want to form a coalition?" Guess what? They did, and they called themselves the New Conservatives. Was it so scary back then? Not really. Will it be now? Probably not.

We'll be ok.

I don't think the issue lies with a coalition being formed. It's that the voters don't have a say of whether they want this coalition in power. Form the coalition and have another election. Let the voters decide who they want in power. There's a possibility that people who voted for NDP, Liberal or Bloc before don't agree with the ideals of the new coalition and decide to vote Progressive. With a coalition, there would be 3 main parties to vote for Progressive, Coalition, and Green Party instead of 5. With less choice, maybe one party will end up with a majority. If people knew a coalition was going to be formed after the elections, maybe people would of voted differently. It's not right what they are trying to do.

[She_Prime]

I don't think the issue lies with a coalition being formed. It's that the voters don't have a say of whether they want this coalition in power. Form the coalition and have another election. Let the voters decide who they want in power. There's a possibility that people who voted for NDP, Liberal or Bloc before don't agree with the ideals of the new coalition and decide to vote Progressive. With a coalition, there would be 3 main parties to vote for Progressive, Coalition, and Green Party instead of 5. With less choice, maybe one party will end up with a majority. If people knew a coalition was going to be formed after the elections, maybe people would of voted differently. It's not right what they are trying to do.

Well as I said, it will be a cuthroat decision like in America with the Republicans and Democrats. This is not necessarily a bad thing.

I know in my area (of Hamilton) we vote in our NDP candidate because he's been around forever and he's done good things for the community. He even ran for (and lost) the mayor seat once before.

I know many Canadians who just base their decision on who is there now stays there when voting. I personally don't think this is right.

With the new Coalition people will start researching them and actually see what their values are. It will make people informed at least. Who cares if they are using shock/care tactics?

Look at our last election too. We had a deplorable turn out of 58%. The LOWEST it's ever been in the history of Canada. Will the formation of the Coalition help this number? Probably not, but at least people will be a little more informed. It's a step in the right direction.

And, we are one of the few countries in the world who have so much "choice" when it comes to our elected parties. Five is a hell of a lot to deal with. Five platforms to research, five candidates to research... people just don't have the time for this.

And I'm a nurse too. I have a lot of political issues I would like to see addressed. Will Harper do it for me? Probably not. The NDP would, and if they are in the slightest chance close to obtaining the leadership as babies of the Liberals then so be it. McGuinty (I know he's Liberal) cut 9000 full time RN positions that he was to implement early in 2009. Why though? Lack of funding. Our economy needs to brighten, and fast.

Can and will the Harper government do it? I doubt it. I am instilling a bit of faith into the Coalition.

[Cardinal Fang]

If people knew a coalition was going to be formed after the elections, maybe people would of voted differently. It's not right what they are trying to do.

Canadians gave the Conservatives a minority mandate. That means we wanted him to work with the opposition to pass laws and govern Canada. That in and of itself is a type of coalition. For him to govern he needs to come to a consensus with the other parties. He can't govern as if he has a majority. So if 3 of the 4 political parties have decided to work together why shouldn't they be allowed to form the government? We gave them that power.

We've had two elections with the same result. Canadians are not willing to give any one party all the power right at this moment. If we are not prepared to give one party the power then we'd better be prepared for the outcome. All possible outcomes. This is what it is. I'm actually intrigued by all this.

The Global economic crisis is enough to trump any type of government that will be elected. The sky is not falling with these three people at the helm. We are going to go into deficit. We would have anyways if the Tories would have brought down their budget. Our dollar will fall because of the economy regardless of who is in power.




The NDP would, and if they are in the slightest chance close to obtaining the leadership as babies of the Liberals then so be it. McGuinty (I know he's Liberal) cut 9000 full time RN positions that he was to implement early in 2009. Why though? Lack of funding. Our economy needs to brighten, and fast.


It is very easy to sit in opposition and condemn the ruling party for their inaction. It is a different matter altogether when you get to actually govern and realize the ideological position of your policies cannot be attained. Bob Rae and the NDP found out the hard way when they governed Ontario. Remember, pumping money into our economy will not simply make it be better. We need our neighbors to the south to get better. That will pick us up. Our economy is too small to have an self sustaining affect.

I'm giving this Coalition 6 months before it falls and I'm willing to bet it will be Layton to pull the plug.

[diuqil]

I agree with Cardinal Fang.

Harper has gone to the extreme, leaving no room for the other parties to survive. It's very short sighted of him. Now he's getting what he deserves.

[JMAK74]

I'm not big on this coalition at this time, especially with Dion at the helm (reason - lame duck as the media puts it).

That being said, the Conservatives under Harper seem to be a bit to smug for my liking - Harper seems (to me at least) to give off the attitude that he's better than any Canadian out there. Add to that their suck and blow at the same time (it's physically impossible) attitude:
- In 2004 as the media has reported, Harper planned to do what is happening to him now - you mean it's okay then, but not now?
- When the Liberals reported surplus, Harper complains that it's "bad managment of taxpayers money", yet when his governement reports a surplus, it's good managment of taxpayers money
It's like listening to teenager talk....


Harper HAS done some good things for us too. We must remember this. Hey, if you bought your car during the 13% tax rather than 15% tax you just saved yourself a couple thousand. Remember that.

I don't like paying taxes like the next person, however:
$25,000 car @ 15% GST = $28,750
$25,000 car @ 13% GST = $28,250
So really you've only had your cost of aquisition reduced by $500 because it only equals 2% and not the couple thousand you mention - and it's these sorts of things the Conservatives offer to the public that for some reason (myself included at times) seem to forget math and think this is great. Really when you work it out - the sorts of tax cuts they offer placate the "not rich" and benefit many times over the rich. And the thing is, personally, we all like to think we're the not "not rich" if you get what i mean. Sure in the case you've described, if i was buying a $50,000 car, I'd save $1,000, but tell me - we're posting on a Mazda3 forum - i'd say odds are most of use can't within reason afford a $50,000 car just yet (and no offense, I mean those of us that don't live at home).

Other case in point - Harper was offering/is offering the $750 credit for first time home buyers, which I gather was to stimulate and get people to buy a house - with all due respect - IF $750 IS YOUR MAKE OR BREAK ON BUYING YOUR FIRST HOUSE - YOU SHOULDN'T BE BUYING A HOUSE

Ultimately, I vote with my wallet - perahps someday when I'm filthy rich I'll then better understand Conservative ideals.

Just my thoughts in a coalation world...

JMAK

[Fobio]

we, the people of Canada do not elect "the government". we elect representatives, who form a government, at the pleasure of the Queen/Governor General...please correct me if I'm wrong cuz I tend to forget these things that were once committed to memory...

I also remember, we can technically vote ourselves into slavery, so goes this thing we call a democracy...

[Xerox]

Harper has gone too far. Considering the current situation, I support the LIB/NDP/BLOC coalition. I want the parliament to work together. If any group of parties that make a majority in parliament want to work together then I will support them.

If you support the coalition, contact the Governor General. If you don't, then just keep quiet.....haha, j/k........no seriously....keep quiet.... ;)

Governor General email address:
info@gg.ca

Governor General website:
http://www.gg.ca/contactus/index_e.asp

Governor General Blog Site:
http://www.ecoutedescitoyens.gg.ca/en/blogs/rideau_hall/194

[Ogata]

Harper has gone too far. Considering the current situation, I support the LIB/NDP/BLOC coalition. I want the parliament to work together. If any group of parties that make a majority in parliament want to work together then I will support them.

If you support the coalition, contact the Governor General. If you don't, then just keep quiet.....haha, j/k........no seriously....keep quiet.... ;)

Governor General email address:
info@gg.ca

Governor General website:
http://www.gg.ca/contactus/index_e.asp

Governor General Blog Site:
http://www.ecoutedescitoyens.gg.ca/en/blogs/rideau_hall/194


Too bad now....Harper got permission from GG to prolouge Parliament...gay..and he doesn't even say sorry to the other parties..

[bhrm]

http://mklasing.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/motivaional_communism.jpeg

[cereal83]

Wow, people supporting the LIEberals. I think hell has frozen over. Only in Ontario is there this much support for a group of thieves!

[ovenking]

That pic is actually from a t-shirt design available on Threadless...but back on topic...

This is the kind of action that will make many Canadians sitting on the fence question whether Harpo is fit for leading this country. Faced with a revolt, rather than accept the consequences, resign so that the CPC can salvage their minority government, or modify the budget to face the new realities of our Canadian economy, he elected to prorogue Parliament. Where's the democracy in THAT?

[condor888000]

Bullshit, this gives him time to prepare the package so it will do the most good. Where's the democracy in 3 leaders compromising the ideals voters elected them on in order to put themselves in power?


Too bad now....Harper got permission from GG to prolouge Parliament...gay..and he doesn't even say sorry to the other parties..

Wait, so the bill they objected to being removed from consideration doesn't count? :loco

[Fuman]

Bullshit, this gives him time to prepare the package so it will do the most good. Where's the democracy in 3 leaders compromising the ideals voters elected them on in order to put themselves in power?



Wait, so the bill they objected to being removed from consideration doesn't count? :loco
the coalition has a stimulus package worked out (or so they say). Another SEVEN weeks of NO action when we need action now. Good job Harper!
Harper, The Bush of Canada

[Brammer]

Cardinal Fang
+1

How many times do we have to hear Harper say he is going to work with other political parties and then turn around and try to kneecap them. It becomes tiring.

My solution? All house members should take a spin in a Mazda 3. Hard to be beligerent when you are grinning ear to ear.

[Ogata]

the coalition has a stimulus package worked out (or so they say). Another SEVEN weeks of NO action when we need action now. Good job Harper!
Harper, The Bush of Canada

+1 Is anyone in favour of this suspension though? I'd like to hear your thoughts since really, from his point it was to dodge the bullet and to "calm" everyone down when really noone is calm and leaving the leaders for a timeout won't make them calm in this crisis.

[condor888000]

LMFAO!

How long do you think it'll take the coalition to get up and running? Took us 6 weeks to get this far, and that's with the same party in power! And Christmas is coming. If the coalition had gone into power we would have seen absolutely nothing until late January. They would not work over the holiday and it would take them a couple weeks to get up and running when they came back.

[Fuman]

LMFAO!

How long do you think it'll take the coalition to get up and running? Took us 6 weeks to get this far, and that's with the same party in power! And Christmas is coming. If the coalition had gone into power we would have seen absolutely nothing until late January. They would not work over the holiday and it would take them a couple weeks to get up and running when they came back.

Took us SIX weeks to get this far with the Harper's party. We get some bullshit stimulus package.
China who lends money to the states, has a stimulus package, now look at Harper's package.

I highly doubt the coalition government will need six weeks to do anything. My guess is two weeks max. Keep in mind, Liberals (if the coalition government took place) have a point to prove. I believe the Coalition government will work over the holidays.

Harper better get voted out when parliament resumes.
We don't need to experience a Canadian Bush

[Walrus]

I think the separatists should be tried for treason..

[queens49]

the coalition has a stimulus package worked out (or so they say). Another SEVEN weeks of NO action when we need action now. Good job Harper!
Harper, The Bush of Canada

Honestly, why does Canada need a stimulus package? Reports before all this coalition stuff came out was that Canada would have the strongest economy of all the G7 nations. Now, that automotive related sectors are laying off workers, there's this big huge push to help the economy. I for one, do not want a single penny of my tax dollar going to bail out the auto sector. (A new poll shows that 61% of americans don't want a bailout either) If there is to be a stimulus package, the only fair thing would be to either reduce taxes for EVERYBODY, or give a rebate to all taxpayers proportional to what they paid in taxes. For all those people who are screaming for a bailout package, you can use that money to buy things, and stimulate the economy. I've been financially responsible, and this recession hasn't affected me one bit. I haven't had to change my spending habits at all. I may be in the minority, but I'm w/ the Conservative about not needing to do anything. This situation would be a perfect lesson for people to learn to be financially responsible, and take responsibility for one's actions.

[Fuman]

Honestly, why does Canada need a stimulus package? Reports before all this coalition stuff came out was that Canada would have the strongest economy of all the G7 nations. Now, that automotive related sectors are laying off workers, there's this big huge push to help the economy. I for one, do not want a single penny of my tax dollar going to bail out the auto sector. (A new poll shows that 61% of americans don't want a bailout either) If there is to be a stimulus package, the only fair thing would be to either reduce taxes for EVERYBODY, or give a rebate to all taxpayers proportional to what they paid in taxes. For all those people who are screaming for a bailout package, you can use that money to buy things, and stimulate the economy. I've been financially responsible, and this recession hasn't affected me one bit. I haven't had to change my spending habits at all. I may be in the minority, but I'm w/ the Conservative about not needing to do anything. This situation would be a perfect lesson for people to learn to be financially responsible, and take responsibility for one's actions.

strongest of the G7 means what? does it mean our economy is growing?

Yet Statistics Canada released figures at the same time showing the Canadian economy has yet to fall into recession. Our economy actually grew by 0.3% in the third quarter of this year, profits are up and so is personal income. from http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2008/12/02/7603086-sun.html
So while we are strongest of the G7, doesn't mean our economy is healthy.

While I do not support the bailout of the Big 3 automakers, I do believe we need to help the auto-sector. A lot of jobs are at risk, from people that make cars to parts providers.
An option is to talk to Toyota and Honda, and give them incentive in buying the American car plants.

[Xerox]

Honestly, why does Canada need a stimulus package? Reports before all this coalition stuff came out was that Canada would have the strongest economy of all the G7 nations. Now, that automotive related sectors are laying off workers, there's this big huge push to help the economy. I for one, do not want a single penny of my tax dollar going to bail out the auto sector. (A new poll shows that 61% of americans don't want a bailout either) If there is to be a stimulus package, the only fair thing would be to either reduce taxes for EVERYBODY, or give a rebate to all taxpayers proportional to what they paid in taxes. For all those people who are screaming for a bailout package, you can use that money to buy things, and stimulate the economy. I've been financially responsible, and this recession hasn't affected me one bit. I haven't had to change my spending habits at all. I may be in the minority, but I'm w/ the Conservative about not needing to do anything. This situation would be a perfect lesson for people to learn to be financially responsible, and take responsibility for one's actions.

I'm not a financial expert but when the TSX tanks isn't that a sign of trouble with the economy? Are you sure you haven't been affected? Have you checked your savings? Interest rates?
I know people who are financially responsible but have gotten laid off because their company has been affected.
What I'm trying to say is that it's not just those who are financially irresponsible or the blue collar who work for or in association with the auto sector that are affected, anyone who has a hand in the economy is affected in one way or another.

As for the bail-out, I say get the f'in oil companies to bail them out.

[bhrm]

I'm not a financial expert but when the TSX tanks isn't that a sign of trouble in the economy? Are you sure you haven't been affected? Have you checked your savings? Interest rates?
I know people who are financially responsible but have gotten laid off because their company has been affected.
What I'm trying to say is that it's not just those who are financially irresponsible or the blue collar who work for or in association with the auto sector that are affected, anyone who has a hand in the economy is affected in one way or another.

As for the bail-out, I say get the f'in oil companies to bail them out.

AFAIK the only folks who aren't affected directly from recession would be public sector workers.

Either way it should affect and touch everyone's lives. Friends, families, relatives. Many can't retire yet or coming back out of retirement to look for work because their investments tanked.

Recent grads can't find jobs because no one is hiring.

Crime will increase as people get desperate.

These are bad times and will be for a while.

Unless someone in Parliament has a Genie in a bottle and willing to make 3 wishes for Canada.

[diuqil]

I agree with Fuman on his note.

Whilst we enter an economic crisis, forgoing 7 weeks of action is a horrendous idea.

[condor888000]

I highly doubt the coalition government will need six weeks to do anything. My guess is two weeks max. Keep in mind, Liberals (if the coalition government took place) have a point to prove. I believe the Coalition government will work over the holidays.

What does Dion have to prove? That idiots gone in 6 months no matter what he does. Nothing substantial will get done before then. They might have a point to prove, but Dion is not the one to prove it. As such, they'll be sitting around doing nothing. Remember, this not only has to be approved by the Liberals, but the NDP and Bloc as well.

The NDP will force any motion too far to the left for it to do any good, and the Bloc will just demand more and more money for Quebec.

How is that a positive thing at all?

[Fuman]

What does Dion have to prove? That idiots gone in 6 months no matter what he does. Nothing substantial will get done before then. They might have a point to prove, but Dion is not the one to prove it. As such, they'll be sitting around doing nothing. Remember, this not only has to be approved by the Liberals, but the NDP and Bloc as well.

The NDP will force any motion too far to the left for it to do any good, and the Bloc will just demand more and more money for Quebec.

How is that a positive thing at all?
Liberal as a party has a point to prove. Furthermore, if Dion pulls off being a good leader, it could turn his political career around.

While I agree each party has their views, I doubt it is as extreme as you are putting it.
We shouldn't be applying stereotypical views at NDP and BQ at such an economic state.
I think these 3 parties can come up with a proper stimulus package.
Harper has already failed at writing a stimulus package, why not give the coalition government a chance.

Furthermore, the coalition government will have majority and so things will get done quicker. (Of course, I am assuming/believe the parties can/will set aside their difference and work on the task at hand.)