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openuser
03-16-2009, 12:22 AM
Hi guys, As you may know I just purchased HKS SSQV with CP-e Flange from Pat.

The vacuum source I used is the smaller hose from the Stock BPV, and I used also the Stock Return Hose (the bigger hose).
The smaller hose is connected to the vacuum filter that came with the SSQV and the filter is connected to 4mm vacuum hose, which is connected to the SSQV.
Now, I had two tries on this install, I tried really short hose that connects the vacuum filter to the SSQV (4mm one). That gave me flutter like sound with jerk forward when I left the throttle under moderate boost.
I thought the vacuum line was getting pinched between the hood and the vacuum nipple on the Valve as the engine moves about during acceleration..
So I rotated the Valve about 10~20 degrees so it is closer to horizontal orientation than before, and cut the Stock Return hose about half an inch to stop the return hose from kinking.

I still have the flutter link sound and jerk.. This is when I release throttle without intention of shifting.. So lift throttle after moderate boost at around 3000 RPM, NOT followed by depressing clutch.
The jerk is not there (obviously) when I depress clutch right after I lift the throttle.

Furthermore, after Hard acceleration I do not feel the jerk even if I lift the throttle without depressing the clutch. I am thinking this may have been due to the velocity at which the car travels after Hard acceleration. The faster the car travels, more momentum it has, and less profound the jerk would be even if it is there.

Likely, under mild acceleration, I do not hear flutter like sound, but very muffled single release noise. I do not feel jerk either.

So, I did some more research into this matter and found the following vids.
One from UOU, and the other from some dude in the States.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB1wnKdIT10
In UOU's video, I hear Two and Only Two distinct release sound. Which is predictable as SSQV has two release valves, one small valve (primary) and one big valve (secondary). So Primary one quickly opens making the first release noise, and then secondary follows making the second release noise.

What I really hear when I lift the throttle after moderate acceleration is the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjDxKkRU1F0
http://www.joejimenez.com/rkm/rkm.wmv (just like this one)
More than 3~4 release-like sound after I lift the throttle.

But it does not sound anything as bad as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfsD-6_Dp58&feature=related

Does anyone who has SSQV installed hear only two distinct release noises?
Or is flutter like sound normal?

Thank you so much in advance!

Edit: Looks like it is a general things to have more jerky and flutter with SSQV?
In this thread, http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=117715.120, even RKM SSQV has been giving MS3s jerky car and flutter sound... But they have been able to cover up that problem by adjusting spring rate with the bolt at the back of the SSQV.. The problem here is that HKS ones do not have the bold to adjust the rate...

openuser
03-19-2009, 07:12 PM
It's been couple days after the installation.. And I have to say, I love it!
The hesitation after releasing throttle has been subsided to a level that I can live with, and the flutter happens only at much lighter boost than before.
It sounds exactly like UOU's vid now and I love it :)

Plus, I feel that stock BPV may have been leaking as I feel the car's acceleration much more urgent now.
The weather may have been a factor, though, keep in mind that the car feels like crap when ambient temperature is below zero. And that it's only last week that weather had warmed up to 10+ degrees.

So far, I am very satisfied with my new SSQV.

Although the installation was Pain in the Butt (Snap ring, trimming IC cover, cutting recirc hose, extending vacuum line), I can say with confidence that it was worth it :)

The only problem remains is that SSQV touches the intercooler air channel on the hood, and scratches the foam on it.. I see little sprinkles of foam on the valve every time I pop the hood..
I may rotate the valve to be more horizontal than current state..

Pictures to come :)

andyh921
03-19-2009, 09:14 PM
i found this: http://forums.turbosmartonline.com/viewtopic.php?id=6

"What’s a “Flutter” and is it bad for my car?
The “flutter” noise reported by many excited enthusiasts may sound good but is actually very unhealthy for the turbo. The “flutter” occurs when upon shutting the throttle, air caught between the turbo and the shut throttle. The consequent back pressure forces the air back through the turbine blades. This process, more commonly called “cavitation” places enormous loads on the turbo and can lead to premature wear of the turbo bearings and other load-bearing components. The cavitation or “flutter” can be fixed by either fitting a blow-off valve onto a system that hasn’t got one, or making sure the blow-off valve is matched to the output of the turbo and is not working outside its flow capacity and ensuring the blow-off valve is set up correctly."

openuser
03-19-2009, 10:11 PM
What they are talking about is Compressor Surge.. Well, one type of the Compressor Surge.
Which sounds like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfsD-6_Dp58&feature=related

SSQV Flutter, I am thinking, is caused by repeated opening and closing of Secondary Valve (the big one) under light boost release circumstances as the vacuum created in intake manifold alternatively increases and deceases due to intake cycles of the pistons.
As a piston suck air from manifold, more vacuum is generated, opening the secondary valve, and when an intake cycle ends, intake manifold sees less vacuum and closes the secondary valve. I think it is more pronounced in our cars as our I4 engine has intake cycle at every 180 degrees of crank rotation, which works out to having one of the four pistons having intake cycle when one of them just finished having intake cycle. So consecutively generating more vacuum - less vacuum - more vacuum - less vacuum pattern. This is not the case for 6 cylinders or higher engines as power strokes happen in less than 180 degrees of crank rotation, meaning that at all times at least one piston is having intake cycle or power stroke..
Note that the primary valve stays open while the secondary valve closes and opens alternatively..

In high boost release situations, such vacuum differences would not be so significant.. Which stops the flutter from happening..

That's my guess here.. Anyone with any other theories?

RX9
03-21-2009, 08:29 PM
hey openuser,is your BPV sounds as like BOV type? i mean the hi-pitch sound...

Unoriginalusername
03-21-2009, 09:51 PM
i love the sound

royroy
03-22-2009, 05:52 AM
hey openuser,is your BPV sounds as like BOV type? i mean the hi-pitch sound...

no.. the sound depends on which filling u use.. for HKS there r 4 types..
Gold = highest pitch
Silver = medium pitch
Purple = lower PSH pitch
and recir = which sounds like the one in the video =)

i have tried all the differen type before.. i think Gold is fun in an annoying way.. but the purple have a nice sound.. and recirc with better performance =)

RX9
03-22-2009, 08:53 PM
no.. the sound depends on which filling u use.. for HKS there r 4 types..
Gold = highest pitch
Silver = medium pitch
Purple = lower PSH pitch
and recir = which sounds like the one in the video =)

i have tried all the differen type before.. i think Gold is fun in an annoying way.. but the purple have a nice sound.. and recirc with better performance =)

did the kit come with all these fillings?

openuser
03-22-2009, 10:26 PM
did the kit come with all these fillings?

It only came with Silver (chrome) insert.. I took it out, of course, to insert the recirc fitting :)

RX9
03-22-2009, 11:21 PM
thx openuser and roys input. if i am using turboXs BPV, should i change it? the BPV didnt product loud sounds like before after i installed the turbo inlet. i want some booosh...booooooosh:bang is there anything i can adjust to make it louder???

royroy
03-23-2009, 04:15 AM
u need to purchase each filling seperately =)
i m not familiar with the TurboXs BPV so i dunno how to adjust..
but i m pretty sure u can still hear the boosh with the SSQV =)
if u dun want a ricy sound.. u can go with the purple filling =)

cosic
03-23-2009, 05:09 PM
UOU's sounded perfect.
I'm pretty upset that I saw this thread now because of the one link you posted with the Gold rimmed CWP MS3.. I was planning on shipping my rims off in a matter of days to get a standard gold done, but now I'm curious as to how many people have had that done!

openuser
03-23-2009, 09:44 PM
thx openuser and roys input. if i am using turboXs BPV, should i change it? the BPV didnt product loud sounds like before after i installed the turbo inlet. i want some booosh...booooooosh:bang is there anything i can adjust to make it louder???

As far as SSQV is concerned, it is not very much louder than stock. But it does increase the range of boost level that BPV makes noise.. So at lower level of boost, SSQV makes flutter noise where as stock BPV makes faint psss noice..
Strictly speaking, though, SSQV IS noisier than stock valve, but I am not sure if it is louder than your TurboXS BPV. However, the valve has a very distinct noise in recirc that you don't get in other valves. You can hear exactly how it sound in UOU's vid I posted in the first post.

Keep in mind that I have SSQV in recirc mode. It would be really loud in VTA with fin inserts. But then again, your BOV would sound really loud in VTA as well.

As far as increasing BPV noise.. I don't think there is anything that can be done..



Oh, So here is the kinds of sound I found SSQV make

Under light load: shuu
Under light-medium load: tsu tsu tsu tsu http://www.joejimenez.com/rkm/rkm.wmv
Under Moderate load: tsu choooooooo (As heard in UOU's vid) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB1wnKdIT10
Under Heavy load: CHOOOOOOOO (However masked by loud exhaust sound)

Stock valve: Psssssssstt

You can sort of see loudness from font size :chuckle

RX9
03-24-2009, 07:59 PM
rofl....the font size indicator is easy to understand. lol
after i took off two washers from the BPV, it start making nice sound now,lol... mine doesnt make any sound under light load, but under mid to heavy load, its loud and hi-pitch. i thought i might stay with it and get a FMIC this summer.

stormin84
03-24-2009, 08:58 PM
Under light load: shuu
Under light-medium load: tsu tsu tsu tsu http://www.joejimenez.com/rkm/rkm.wmv
Under Moderate load: tsu choooooooo (As heard in UOU's vid) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB1wnKdIT10
Under Heavy load: CHOOOOOOOO (However masked by loud exhaust sound)

Stock valve: Psssssssstt

You can sort of see loudness from font size :chuckle

geez you got a train in your car :chuckle

tsu tsu tsu tsu tsu tsu tsu tsu choooooooochoooooooo

openuser
03-25-2009, 07:39 PM
Well, I like the train under my hood :chuckle