Engine Retard

[-cj-]

Hey guys,

When I drive my car like I want to attain 450km per tank :chuckle, I notice the knock retard on my AP increase... USUALLY it's at .3 or .7, sometimes 1.0... But I've noticed that once in a while it will go as high as 5.8 (That's the record). I know that you get knock when driving the car like a granny, but 5.8 seems excessive, no? I've seen it only twice... 90% of the time if I get knock, it's about .7. I've only seen the 5.8 twice now..

Normal?

[mleblond]

yep, been like that for ever. I changed to colder plugs (denso itv24) and the knock is way better now. But I think thats why we need custom tunes so we can get rid of KR.

[Fobio]

phantom knock around 3000rpm is normal...5.9 is the magic number, and I see it most @ hwy cruising speed. WOT knock is the one to watch out for...

[-cj-]

Beautiful... Glad it isn't out of the norm. I'm going to replace my plugs... Might as well do whatever I can to reduce it. Are the Denso's the one to aim for, or is there something better?

I don't believe I'm getting WOT knock, but I'm going to keep an eye on it. I think my mods are relatively minor... But who knows how different my car could be compared to Cobb's OTS design car....

[stormin84]

yep, been like that for ever. I changed to colder plugs (denso itv24) and the knock is way better now. But I think thats why we need custom tunes so we can get rid of KR.

are those plugs 2 step colder or 1 step...If they are 2 step colder were you still getting knock and thats why you switched to 2 step colder

[mleblond]

are those plugs 2 step colder or 1 step...If they are 2 step colder were you still getting knock and thats why you switched to 2 step colder

Yes the 22's kept knocking the 5.9 so I got the 24's (2 step colder) and I hardly get the random knocks anymore. They still happen once in a while but in the 3.8 range. But I knock 0.3-0.7 on wot

[stormin84]

Yes the 22's kept knocking the 5.9 so I got the 24's (2 step colder) and I hardly get the random knocks anymore. They still happen once in a while but in the 3.8 range. But I knock 0.3-0.7 on wot

were you getting high knocks at WOT with the 22's

[mleblond]

no the same for wot

[stormin84]

no the same for wot

nice...because i was getting pretty much the same thing...time to jump up from 1 step to 2 step

[laksman91]

What exactly is the engine knock? And what mainly causes it

[Gizzmo_jr]

What exactly is the engine knock? And what mainly causes it
Pre-detonation from the combustion temperature being to high too early, igniting the air/fuel mixture. Knock, or pinging, is a shockwave within the combustion cycle. Very bad, can destroy a engine within seconds if it's really bad. Piston is traveling up as the pre-ignition is forcing it back down. Colder plugs allows everything to ignite better. If I recall correctly.

[laksman91]

so the result of an in correct tune as well?

[CanadaGTO]

Any issue with fouling mleblond. The colder the plug the more fouling under normal driving. You are changing them more often right?

[mleblond]

Any issue with fouling mleblond. The colder the plug the more fouling under normal driving. You are changing them more often right?

Well the itv24 are more expensive (80$ tax in) and to date only had them in for 2-3k but I didn't notice anymore fouling than the 22's. I suspect I may have to change them more frequently like you said but only time will tell at this point. I got 2 other MS3 some itv24s and it seems to have the same effect for them.

I must also say that I did unplug the ground on the battery while installing the plugs. One of the guys didnt do it and found no change. once His ecu was reset he notice the change in knock.

Also do not use the out of the box gapping. I found out they were much different and gapped mine at 0.30. I noticed COBB says to gap them like 0.26 in one document somewhere for stage 2. But I am satisfied with 0.30

[CanadaGTO]

Good stuff.

I think I'll bring some in in the next few weeks. If anyone wants a set, shoot me a PM and I'll reserve you some on the order.

[EDIT]

BTW, I think that the ITV22's (which I have in stock) are probably the best bet for lightly mod'd cars, these ITV24's are best for those with a lot of bolt ons and running higher boost.

[Fobio]

Good stuff.

I think I'll bring some in in the next few weeks. If anyone wants a set, shoot me a PM and I'll reserve you some on the order.

[EDIT]

BTW, I think that the ITV22's (which I have in stock) are probably the best bet for lightly mod'd cars, these ITV24's are best for those with a lot of bolt ons and running higher boost.

what kind of pricing can you get for the ITV24's? =)

[CanadaGTO]

what kind of pricing can you get for the ITV24's? =)

Aiming for $70 to $75 taxes in.

[-cj-]

=) I'm trying to debate whether to get the 22's now or wait a bit and get the 24's... When should you consider the 24's? After the DP? Or after DP + upgraded IC? I'll be picking up a DP MAYBE later this year (I'm getting married in July so I have to keep my mods under the radar lol, already added too much this season...)

[Fobio]

Aiming for $70 to $75 taxes in.

Lemme know when, I'm interested.


=) I'm trying to debate whether to get the 22's now or wait a bit and get the 24's... When should you consider the 24's? After the DP? Or after DP + upgraded IC? I'll be picking up a DP MAYBE later this year (I'm getting married in July so I have to keep my mods under the radar lol, already added too much this season...)

After DP. Hopefully we'll see you at a dyno session in May.

[-cj-]

After DP. Hopefully we'll see you at a dyno session in May.

Nice... I'm going to hold off for a bit then and pick up the 24's with my DP.

I'm definately in for any dyno session... Just let me know. I tried to revive the old dyno mini-meet thread to see if anyone had interest. Looks like Whitespeed3 is in as well =)

[stormin84]

Aiming for $70 to $75 taxes in.

Pat I'm also interested in the 24's

[CanadaGTO]

Okay, I've got 4 sets of ITV24's coming in by Friday. The following seem interested, just confirm with me if you can:

1) ovillems3
2) stormin84
3) Fobio
4) speedbaby

I'm gonna try and get more in late next week ;)

Pricing still looks to be between $70 and $75 taxes in.

[kid_icarus]

pardon my typical cluelessness

but what would allow me to "know" if i am getting engine knock/retard?

i read the description above
but still not sure what that would translate to in terms of touch/noise/smell lol
what would i be looking for?

i'm not running AP anymore so would this be an issue at all?

[CanadaGTO]

Hmmmm. Usually if you start hearing engine knock it's too late, unless you really know what to listen for.

Best way is with a scan tool, like the Dashhawk, which is what I use to read the retard.

Obviously the less moded you are the less likely you are to have engine retard and knock.

[kid_icarus]

Hmmmm. Usually if you start hearing engine knock it's too late, unless you really know what to listen for.

Best way is with a scan tool, like the Dashhawk, which is what I use to read the retard.

Obviously the less moded you are the less likely you are to have engine retard and knock.

DAMN IT this dashhawk always manages to come up somehow hahaha.

pat u plan on running a GB on these anytime? lol
and or what would a GB price look like? hehe

[CanadaGTO]

I looked into it and I would need too many to get a really good deal.

Shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do ;)

[kid_icarus]

I looked into it and I would need too many to get a really good deal.

Shoot me a PM and I'll see what I can do ;)

will do when i get over the next few installs on things
thanks pat haha

[stormin84]

Okay, I've got 4 sets of ITV24's coming in by Friday. The following seem interested, just confirm with me if you can:

1) ovillems3
2) stormin84
3) Fobio
4) speedbaby

I'm gonna try and get more in late next week ;)

Pricing still looks to be between $70 and $75 taxes in.

That's a confirmation from me... Thanks Pat

[Fobio]

same...pls confirm my order Pat. Thanks.