ECU Flashed / Dyno Results / Feedback [Archive]

Donutz

05-30-2009, 11:50 AM

So, after a marathon day yesterday, I'm happy to report that I have had my ecu flashed, ran the dyno, and have done some testing.

My car and the mods I have that affect the experiment:
- 2005 2.3L Sport GT
- Mazdaspeed accessory intake
- Vibrant header
- 2.25 custom cbe made from a mazdaspeed accessory exhaust with vibrant ultra quiet resonator and magnaflow 9x16x4 straight through muffler
- Medieval rear mm
- 91 octane

The experiment:
- filled up with 91 octane
- my car was strapped to the dyno
- we did 3 pulls before the flash
- pulled the ecu from the car, but left the car strapped to the dyno
- flashed the ecu
- ran the car on the dyno
- finished up with 7 dyno pulls

My dyno results (4th gear):

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t32/sagexp/DynoRun.jpg

While this sheet shows that I hit 158 whp / 148 wtq with the flash, my last run we put down 159.7 whp, and over 150 wtq. The gains on the dyno sheet above (8 whp / 8 wtq) are decent for NA imo. Here is the kicker; after the flash, my ecu was still learning; in the last 3 pulls I was consistently putting down another 2 hp/tq with each pull. By the time we hit the 7th pull, I was no longer comfortable with continuing the session as we had whipped my car pretty good through out the day; I think the guys sensed this so we ended the dyno session. That said, I am happy to know that I put down a decent number and that my car still didn't max out in power. While I would like to have proven what the max power is for this flash, I am satisfied to know what I know, and I think the guys feel the same way.

My feedback:
You can see from the dyno sheet that the power is consistent through out the entire rpm range. This is very usable power everywhere, in every gear. 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd shifts are awesome now. I've also found that I have to be careful with 1st gear because it breaks loose fairly easily if I get on it. Taking off from the line in traffic is excellent now. The car leaves the line with no hesitation at 850 rpm. So far I have to say that I am pleased with my experience and the results.

The guys:
The guys are in the process of taking care of the odds and ends to become sponsors on this forum. When they take care of that I will post my detailed feedback about my experience with them in their section. I can say that they are really decent to work with, and Michael, the tuner, is very knowledgeable. I had a great time and will recommend them to anyone that is interested.

casperwonder

05-30-2009, 02:21 PM

Nice run. Thanks for trying it out for us. Greatly appreciated!

Sean80

05-30-2009, 04:56 PM

Excellent!

WingZero_

05-30-2009, 05:12 PM

Sweet numbers. On a mustang dyno too!

bbell1984

05-30-2009, 05:49 PM

why did u run 91 octane, why didn't you just keep it at the regular octane? or does the ecu flash require the 91?

are you going to do any other dyno runs at a later point?

Donutz

05-30-2009, 09:50 PM

The flash requires at least 91. I'm not sure if I'll dyno again this year.

whiteomega

05-31-2009, 08:50 AM

Awesome results; I didn't think it was possible to flash the stock ECU though. Guess I was wrong about that.

Caesu

05-31-2009, 11:54 AM

So 5500 RPM is the point of diminishing returns on the Mazda 3, under this spec at least

No point to really rev it past this range for the percentage decreasing, staring on engine

chinsterr

05-31-2009, 12:42 PM

How much was the flash ?

What happens if you pull a terminal on the battery , will you loose it?

wolverineottawa

05-31-2009, 01:53 PM

We will be taking care of the sponsor issues this week and at that point we will release the price and the details.

jsbola

05-31-2009, 06:14 PM

Are there any important downsides to flashing? Im assuming it burns more gas with the flash that was used but anything else?

Donutz

05-31-2009, 08:45 PM

I did not see much difference in gas. I used about 3/4 of a tank of 87 octane to get to Ottawa before the flash. On the way back I used the same amount of 91 octane after the flash. It is possible that there is a small difference, but I didn't notice any.

PSI Tuning

05-31-2009, 09:17 PM

Hi guys,

You don't lose the flash if you disconnect the battery. Fuel economy is proportional to what your right foot is doing. I don't expect it to get any worse fuel economy than stock. If you're flogging the car it will actually get better economy. The engine still makes a useable amount of torque above 5500 rpm but we still opted to keep the stock rev limiter where it was.

Hope that answers some of the questions.

-Michael

Tokic_o

05-31-2009, 10:55 PM

so how much will this cost? What would happen if you just kept with bronze fuel? lol

Olestra

06-01-2009, 01:33 AM

so how much will this cost? What would happen if you just kept with bronze fuel? lol

Uh why mod your car, get a tune and then run lower octane fuel. That's counterproductive and not logical. You're saving 5-10 bucks per fill up but you're not making full use of your mods...

PSI Tuning

06-01-2009, 08:29 AM

I would need a test car here to be able to tell you that we can do a decent flash for regular. Since we added some timing to the map I am not comfortable blindly selling a reflash without testing it properly. I would like to see that the knock system isn't pulling any timing first. 90% chance it's OK but I would need to go the last 10% first.

Brent and I have talked about offering discounts to the forum members so contact him for that. Since we're in Quebec any ECUs mailed to us from Ontario are not subject to provincial tax.

-Michael

Tokic_o

06-01-2009, 10:15 AM

Uh why mod your car, get a tune and then run lower octane fuel. That's counterproductive and not logical. You're saving 5-10 bucks per fill up but you're not making full use of your mods...

What do you mean lower octane fuel? Mazda3s are supposed to run bronze fuel if you've read the manual. :loco

Noisy Crow

06-01-2009, 10:48 AM

What do you mean lower octane fuel? Mazda3s are supposed to run bronze fuel if you've read the manual. :loco

Mazda3s are also supposed to not have engine mods done to them! They are tuned for 87 octane pump gas... and if you change the tuning to optimize power and torque, rather being optimized to run okay on 87 octane gas, you have to account for that in your gasoline selection.

wolverineottawa

06-01-2009, 08:24 PM

stormin84

06-01-2009, 09:03 PM

GROUP BUY/FLASH.....

With the results of a very satisfied customer and one of your own we offering a group buy/flash.

Cost of the group buy/flash is $550.00 Taxes included.....send us the ecu we flash and send back. Send the ecu to :

PSI Tuning IncAddress:‎
649 Rue Auguste-Mondoux
Gatineau, QC
(819) 778-7047
www.psituned.com (http://www.psituned.com)

Any questions please do not hesitate to pm me or PSI Tuning.....

hate to say this, but i don't think alot of people are going to send off the ecu to you, and be out of a car for a couple of days, just so that you can flash their ecu.

wolverineottawa

06-01-2009, 11:15 PM

If there are enough then we can go there.....

Olestra

06-02-2009, 12:32 AM

hate to say this, but i don't think alot of people are going to send off the ecu to you, and be out of a car for a couple of days, just so that you can flash their ecu.

I would consider it if I could find an ECU at a junk yard.

wolverineottawa

06-02-2009, 08:10 AM

If all goes well it could be back to you in 2 days....

lets say we get it on a Monday we flash it and we overnight it that day.

SilentJay

06-02-2009, 08:14 AM

Could be an interesting idea if we can drum up enough support locally... ECU from junk yard presents all sorts of issues you'll probably want to avoid.

PSI Tuning

06-02-2009, 09:30 AM

stormin84 (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=2737), it's not uncommon for people to take their car to a shop for a couple of days so their latest performance mod, let's say cams, clutch, i/h/e can be installed. An ecu reflash is just another choice for those who want a little more power.

I'm not sure if a JY ECU would work because of the immobilizer codes. I may consider picking up an ECU and removing the immobilizer function so it can be offered as an exchange but I don't know how I feel about removing an anti-theft feature - first for a potential thief using a modified ECU to steal cars and second for those who might want to steal your baby. I've never looked at removing the immo functions on this ECU either so I don't know how difficult it would be.

-Michael

Donutz

06-03-2009, 04:01 PM

I received some questions about the gains with this flash. Michael can confirm, however, to my knowledge the above dyno sheet shows my mid pre-flash run benchmarked against the mid of my best 3 runs after the flash. That is why my 159.7 whp run does not appear.

Michael could have shown my lowest run from my pre-flash session againt the highest run, post-flash. The results of these numbers would be close to 16 whp / 13 wtq in gains. While my ego would feel good about this, I have to give Michael props for wanting to show a more realistic picture of the average gains from his tune.

PSI Tuning

06-03-2009, 04:30 PM

You are correct about not exaggerating numbers. I would be happier selling a 12hp reflash and find clients dynoing a 16hp gain than selling a 20hp reflash and having disappointed clients who only made 15.

-Michael

SSmoked

06-03-2009, 05:15 PM

the increase in power is good and all but the only thing that bugs me is that jason's car has basic bolt ons(header,intake,echaust) that likly complement the ecu flash. if u guys over at psi tuning could take a stock mazda3 and flash it and do before and after runs we could be more realistic about the power gains.

Tokic_o

06-03-2009, 05:21 PM

PSI Tuning

06-03-2009, 06:38 PM

The differences are very consistent, mods or not. This is why we did a baseline test before the reflash and after. Take a bone stock car and you'll see similar gains - I've been tuning for a decade now and I've got enough experience to stand behind that.

The sum and short of it - it's a legit performance mod, we've invested all we can ($80k+) in developing the product and we've put money into dynoing the results. For anyone who has called the shop late at night in the last 6 months they know how many nights I've worked past midnight on this reflash.

It does work - one of your own has the reflash done and can back it up with a dyno sheet. Every person so far who has had a reflash has been really happy with it. If you get one and you're not satisfied, then just send it back and back to stock she goes. You just lose the shipping cost.

When you buy a $489 exhaust system it's exceptional if you ever see any dyno results to back up their claim of horsepower gained.

-Michael

bbell1984

06-16-2009, 03:04 PM

so 500 bucks for the flash and how long does it take to install?

Also, do you guys have a website? if so post it up on ur sponser page

bbell1984

06-16-2009, 03:05 PM

k just found answers to both questions,.........im a dummy

theurgy

06-20-2009, 07:46 PM

I've had my Speed3 flashed by Mike and I can tell you his attention to detail with tuning is amazing.
Nothing but good things to say about this shop.

The gains on the Speed3 are phenomenal as well.

wolverineottawa

06-20-2009, 08:35 PM

I've had my Speed3 flashed by Mike and I can tell you his attention to detail with tuning is amazing.
Nothing but good things to say about this shop.

The gains on the Speed3 are phenomenal as well.

I am not feeling any love here.....LOL.....good to know that you are still happy with the results.

biped

06-24-2009, 05:09 PM

yo

this is biped from mazda3forums.com, i'm over to the right in NB

i (we) have a couple questions that maybe i should address with psi themselves, but perhaps they can be answered here too. if not i'll just contact them.

with the release of the cp-e standback for the NA cars, this looks like a better option (to me) in terms of general headache relief and the fact that i don't have to street tune my nuts off, splice wires etc. but:

1. how does this fare in terms of general afr and fuel trims? i assume timing was modified conservatively in the reflash, so i'm just wondering if there would be any chance of negative affects given a short ram vs a cai or larger diameter exhaust etc? basically, is this general tune going to deliver the same results for everyone?

2. any choking or hesitation at all through the powerband? doesn't look like it from the graph but i thought i'd check.

3. possibility of speed limiter removal? they mentioned changing the redline, so a governor delete must be possible.

4. how many people are currently running this reflash with great results?

thanks, first post ftw

Donutz

06-24-2009, 07:19 PM

Welcome to TM3!

1 - PSI will have to answer.
2 - None that I have experienced.
3 - PSI will have to answer, but to my knowledge the speed limiter and governor were not eliminated and the redline remains untouched with this flash. I'd be interested in knowing if another version of the tune will be available at any point.
4 - To my knowledge, on TM3 there are 2 of us (myself and theUrgy); on OMC there is another guy running the tune as well. That said, there may be more people in the Ottawa / Gatineau area running the tune since I had my ECU reflashed.

I went with this flash instead of the CPE sb for the same reasons you are stating; simply put, it is less of a headache and less costly.

PSI Tuning

06-25-2009, 07:34 AM

1) It fares very well. Timing was changed but very slightly and the fuel was changed slightly as well as the throttle angle table. The tune should result in safe gains for everyone. I have met and spoken with the OEM tuners for a number of carmakers and they say that output is seldom high on their list. They are told by the marketing department and the powertrain department how much power they must extract and most of their testing and tuning falls into the how to make it last with the lowest octane fuel with no oil changes, dirty air filter, and all the other stuff enthusiasts don't do. There is lots of extra space in your tune for performance.

2) Absolutely not, if there were then I wouldn't consider a vehicle tuned. I'm pretty anal about hiccups.

3) Rev limiter was maintained. I think the speed limiter was removed. I suppose the client's we've done so far have been responsible enough drivers so they have not seen this.

4) In all we've done 7 including the early beta testers, the only complaint I've seen so far was 1 speeding ticket.

biped

06-25-2009, 10:05 AM

AWESOME

thank you very much for your prompt reply, psi.

what is the standard out the door cost if i were to send my ecu to you from NB? i checked the website but there's not much on it.

sorry for all the questions, but does the crank position sensor's (advanced timing mod) position affect anything at all?

one last question as well, since the ecu continues to learn, is it realistic to expect that you won't see the full gains until at least a full day of driving?

here's our thread on it: http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=148659.0

thanks again. i ask about the limiter removal because, well, some of us live dangerously and i realize the position of the vendor is to maintain legal speed limits. but, you could pm me if you know the answer as some of us do visit the track and those speeds on occasion and are curious.

PSI Tuning

06-25-2009, 10:17 AM

Unfortunately we've been so busy that there has been no time to update the website. I hired someone who apparently had a history of doing web design but unfortunately his HTML skills were running only a few cylinders.

I'm not a member of the other mazda forum but they probably don't realize the $550 is taxes in Canadian. If you ship an ECU from outside of Quebec then you don't pay the TPS tax so it comes in at somewhere around $520 CAD.

I'm going out tuning in Europe from the 1st to the 15th so if you're planning to send it in please send it around the 15th so I will have a pile to do when I get over my jetlag.

For your timing mod, I highly recommend against it. Some parts of the timing map are already advanced to MBT so if you add 3-4 degrees of base timing to the system you may cause problems. In one case if it's in the knock window the factory ECU will pull timing for you but outside the window it will happily damage your engine.

-Michael

biped

06-25-2009, 10:42 AM

cool

i won't be sending the ecu quite yet, but thanks for the info.

good to know, as long as i move the sensor back i should be golden.

lancesir

06-25-2009, 12:22 PM

Anyone tested this flash with regular 87 octane? It would be really good to be able to run either 87 or 91 as I like without knocking or other problems.

PSI Tuning

06-25-2009, 02:00 PM

I don't recommend running a 91 octane flash with 87. It's really hard to blow up an NA engine but when I say it needs 91 that's because the timing is profiled for 91 octane with a reasonable margin for error. The factory knock system can probably deal with the difference and pull timing but I feel strongly against using a knock control system as a reactive measure on an ongoing basis. I can also do a map for 87 octane but you probably won't see as significant a gain.

-Michael

lancesir

06-25-2009, 04:17 PM

OK thanks Michael. I only ask because running 91 adds to the running cost of the flash versus 87 w/o flash. Without a programmer myself I wouldn't be able to switch between different flashes. Obviously there's a cost for performance so I'm just speaking for myself.

PSI Tuning

06-25-2009, 08:07 PM

A mail-in reflash doesn't give you the same flexibility of a handheld programmer but we're also selling it for far below what a kit with a handheld is sold for. I've been doing a lot of research on how I might approach building a programmer too but these things take time.

-Michael

Donutz

06-25-2009, 11:22 PM

I've been doing a lot of research on how I might approach building a programmer too but these things take time.

:pop

alakazoo22

06-26-2009, 06:21 AM

It's work for 2006 + model ?

Donutz

06-26-2009, 08:25 AM

Yes.

biped

06-26-2009, 09:54 AM

here's a question regarding the crank position sensor. you said i'd need to move it back to the original position otherwise risk the engine pulling timing or, worse, going beyond the parameters used in the maps and blowing the engine.

how would you account for the cars that come from the factory with this sensor advanced already?

PSI Tuning

06-26-2009, 10:31 AM

If you've modified the crank sensor to give the car extra timing it should not have then you need to set it back. If Mazda shipped the car with the sensor in a location then presumably this has given it a normal amount of timing so no change would be necessary.

My concern was only if you'd artificially advanced the timing because it advances the entire map. There are places where from the factory the engine is at the limit of pinging so blindly adding timing everywhere isn't a very good idea. When we do a reflash we only advance the timing only in certain places.

-Michael

Donutz

08-09-2009, 10:00 PM

Just a quick update now that I have about 6000 km on this reflash. There has been no change in power characteristics; as is the case with most of us, flash or not, on cooler mornings with low humidity I can really see a difference but with the flash my car really seems to haul @ss now. I love second gear with this flash! Fuel mileage remains largely unchanged comparing pre-flash to post-flash; I'm still getting 450-500 kms in the city, and high 500's+ on the highway. Also, I don't hear any pinging.

chinsterr

08-09-2009, 10:07 PM

Thanks for the update !

This is soooo tempting

Donutz

08-09-2009, 10:39 PM

It's easy for me to say, but it's totally worth it! Add on a couple of quick revving mods (a la BSD), and the car feels completely different.

bbell1984

08-10-2009, 08:25 AM

Hey,

This question is to the sponser and to Jason, and i'm sorry if it sounds dumb....hopefully it doesn't...

Anyway if i drive down there with 87 octane, get the flash completed, which needs 91 octane....what happens with the rest of the 87 octane....
Do you A) pull a Trailer Park Boys move and suck the rest of the 87 octane out then go fill up with 91,
or
B) just not worry about the rest of the 87 octane in the tank and go filler up with 91??

thanks
brian

Donutz

08-10-2009, 08:36 AM

I like the trailer park boys option!

What I did was fill up with 91 on my way to Ottawa, then when I got there I filled up again with 91. I assume that should have watered down most of the remaining 87 in my tank before the dyno runs. On my way back home I topped up with more 91. I think option B is fine.

PSI Tuning

08-10-2009, 02:32 PM

bbell1984

08-10-2009, 08:22 PM

Next time you fill up put in 91 octane. Drive up and fill it with 91 on your drive up. Should also be fine. Alternatively and far cheaper, just send the ECU up here. If you're out of province then you only get charged 1 tax.

-Michael

i Don't know how to remove the ECU.... is there a sticky? is it quick and easy or hard and tiresome?

p.s. this flash is still 500?

Just another question to PSI...If i were down in the area visiting a friend, how long would you need to flash the ECU and have me drive away?

thanks
b

stormin84

08-10-2009, 08:38 PM

i Don't know how to remove the ECU.... is there a sticky? is it quick and easy or hard and tiresome?

p.s. this flash is still 500?

Just another question to PSI...If i were down in the area visiting a friend, how long would you need to flash the ECU and have me drive away?

thanks
b

the ecu is the black box that is attached to the battery...disconnect the battery then,
you'll need a flathead screwdriver to take the plugs out then unbolt it from the battery box. The hardest part of the is the plugs there is a little tab that you'll have to make sure you don't brake.
if you do send the ecu to him be prepared to park your car and not be able to drive it. (it will probably be 3 days first day off car and send it off, 2nd day flash and sent back to you, 3rd day receive it).

Donutz

08-10-2009, 09:17 PM

^^ Delivery times sound about right. The ECU isn't too hard to remove. If you're in the GTA I can give you a hand if you need it.

JohnyGT

08-10-2009, 09:29 PM

It's easy for me to say, but it's totally worth it! Add on a couple of quick revving mods (a la BSD), and the car feels completely different.

Whats a la BSD mod, Jason?

stormin84

08-10-2009, 09:44 PM

^ balance shaft delete

JohnyGT

08-10-2009, 09:56 PM

^ balance shaft delete

Oh, oh. But doesnt that cause more vibration while driving and no positive

effects tho? (sorry for my dumb question:bang)

stormin84

08-10-2009, 10:00 PM

Oh, oh. But doesnt that cause more vibration while driving and no positive

effects tho? (sorry for my dumb question:bang)

i haven't done this mod.....so i'm not positive, but i do believe that it does cause more vibrations that why some MS3 owners have upped the rpms at idle to reduce the vibrations

Donutz

08-10-2009, 10:30 PM

Yes, there is definitely more vibration. Unfortunately for us, I think Fobio's review of the BSD was removed when Darkstar departed TM3. Essentially the engine rev's quicker, starts easier, leaves the line easier, and upshifts and downshifts are so smooth now. I just had the BSD done on Saturday and I'm loving it. While you do see a small increase in power, the advantages are really in the way the engine revs, moreso than power gains. If I have time I'll write up another review so we have some reference on our forum.

JohnyGT

08-10-2009, 10:38 PM

Donutz

08-10-2009, 10:44 PM

For sure. I sometimes come out to the AA meets.

JohnyGT

08-10-2009, 10:48 PM

For sure. I sometimes come out to the AA meets.

Then we shall meet @ AAs, i do sometimes go to AA as well :) Thanks jason

Gen1GT

08-21-2009, 03:15 PM

So 5500 RPM is the point of diminishing returns on the Mazda 3, under this spec at least

No point to really rev it past this range for the percentage decreasing, staring on engine

I don't understand; power was increasing all the way until redline. Where are the diminishing returns?

PSI Tuning

08-21-2009, 04:25 PM

p.s. this flash is still 500?

Just another question to PSI...If i were down in the area visiting a friend, how long would you need to flash the ECU and have me drive away?

thanks
b

Hi,

Yes I am still offering the flashes for $489+tx to club members. Last month I spent some time in Italy tuning. While I was there I met up and signed a deal with a well known company there. This involves transfer of technology in order to further the development of Mazda reflashes. The exact details will be made public shortly via a press release.

The above impacts slightly my ability to deliver an on-the-spot reflash but if a client shows up early in the morning then yes it can be done while you wait. The rom patching is now done by a group of workers in Italy. Some of the further work involves the ability to automatically patch rom files so it takes the manual part out of it. There are so many versions of the factory ROM it wasn't a lot of fun anyway! Once that is completed I will be able to do them nearly instantly.

As for the tune, the one you see in this thread was the first collaborative effort so the present results may be slightly better but nothing significant. The car pulls and gains power all the way to redline. Some engines can tolerate a few more RPM, I didn't feel it was safe to crank on a pile of extra RPM on this engine. That is why you find the tuning the way it is.

Presently I am heavily involved in product development so I apologise if it takes me some time to respond to posts here. At worse I can be reached via email hackish@gmail.com.

Watch for some exciting new announcements soon!

-Michael

bbell1984

08-21-2009, 06:07 PM

sounds good im excited for more announcements.

what if we get an early tune and then you come out with a much better tune, do we get that one for free? or at a really good discount?

Donutz

08-21-2009, 06:41 PM

Watch for some exciting new announcements soon!

:pop

theurgy

08-21-2009, 07:12 PM

HEHE Well if you guys noticed at MOM2009.. I was there and handed out some PSI Tuning cards.
Anyhow.. Michael and Brent have been doing some pretty cool things and from what I've heard through the grapevine... it's good news!

Donutz

08-21-2009, 10:10 PM

Default User

10-05-2009, 08:53 PM

I soooo want this done.....aaarggghhhhhhh effing mortgage payments!!!!!

PSI Tuning

10-05-2009, 09:16 PM

Maybe you could get in the group flash that is being organized. That'll be a 1/2 mortgage payment :) Seriously though if we can get 20 together the prices will be significantly better.

-Michael

Effin Itai

01-19-2010, 01:51 PM

This would have been good 3 years ago, when I had half the kms and wasn't spending money on maintainence like I am now. I've got 135ks on the car and I would be afraid of her going 'bang'!

I know i won't do this but for those who want to do it, if there was something to go wrong with the reflash and the engine did got 'bang', do you guys cover the repairs? lol. I know it may be silly to ask this but I'm just curious.

Thanks
Your local,
Effin Itai

PSI Tuning

01-19-2010, 02:24 PM

Mazda engineered your engine to produce X number of horsepower from the factory and even with their careful engineering some engines do not make it past the warrantee period. The reflash pushes the engine a little beyond it's design parameters to produce a little more power.

There is obviously a very healthy design factor used by the Mazda engineers, but you have to understand that everything you do to your car including turning the key has a certain amount of risk.

In short, no guarantee but I've been doing this sort of thing for a lot of years and it is very very rare that any problems come from it.

-Michael