Sub not pounding :(

[thanu31]

so i got my sub installed yest,
12" Type R, with a Alpine Mono Amp M500
Its connected to my stock deck with a basic Stinger LOC.

The system does not impress me at all, its boring, what could be going on?

i used to have TypeS and the box im using is for the TypeS, i changed to typeR cuz the S blew, and when i had typeS it was in my protege5, and it was LOUD, i was expecting more with the type R

The guy who installed it said im better off with a TypeS, because the amp will push it better, as the Type R is a power hungry sub. Do you guys have any other ideas?

The installer was a BestBuy guy, i wouldnt take it there but a friend who works their said this guy is reccomended unlike the other BB installers, and he hooked me up with a good price, so yea...


would i get better pound with a TypeS, or is the LOC shitty, or is the stock deck not doing the job, errrr :bang

any input appreciated! Thanks

[Thrizzl3]

Get an aftermarket deck

[aris]

Get an aftermarket deck

My 10" pounds pretty good off my stock deck

[thanu31]

^ yea i read that most ppl are getting nice results

Could there be a wiring problem? or is the amp not enough for the type R

[Islandless]

That sub is a dual voice coil right? Maybe it is set up at 4 ohms rather than 2 ohms...

[thanu31]

im not good with this stuff, but i know its wired., ummm the parallel way? if that makes sense lol.. is that 4 ohm or 2 ohm...

this is the amp http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=MRP-M500&lang=en&tab=F

[Islandless]

If it's a dual 4 ohm voice coil then that would be a 2 ohm set up.. which is what you would want. I'm no expert so I'm not sure what else it could be except maybe the gain on your amp is set really low or something.

[Gizzmo_jr]

sub out of phase?

[thanu31]

^ meaning? lol


If it's a dual 4 ohm voice coil then that would be a 2 ohm set up.. which is what you would want. I'm no expert so I'm not sure what else it could be except maybe the gain on your amp is set really low or something.


installer said the amp settings are optimized

[cwp_sedan]

Is this your sub, dual 4ohm? http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=SWR-1242D (there is also a dual 2ohm sub, so this is why I ask)


If so then your amp should be fine and so should the LOC.

Where is the LOC tapped into? Front or rear speakers?

Have you checked the amp settings yourself?

How is the sub wired up to the amp?

[Islandless]

Doesn't that amp have speaker level inputs? In which case you wouldn't even need a LOC since the amp has one built into it...

[Islandless]

Is this your sub, dual 4ohm? http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=SWR-1242D (there is also a dual 2ohm sub, so this is why I ask)


I was going to ask the same question but I hope it's not dual 2 ohm wired in parallel or the it would be running at 1 ohm! hehe

[cwp_sedan]

I was going to ask the same question but I hope it's not dual 2 ohm wired in parallel or the it would be running at 1 ohm! hehe

Yeah that would toast the amp for sure.

Look here though - http://support.alpine-usa.com/products/documents/OM_SWR-1242D.PDF

They actually give an option for a dual 2 ohm sub to be wired up as 4 ohm, so that could be his problem also. We'll have to wait and see how it is wired up.

[mdass52]

see which speaker its tapped into to, then check the fader on the deck. Other then that whether you get a type-s or type-r the sub will get the same power from the amp. With either sub you should be getting pretty decent bass.

[thanu31]

its a dual 4ohm wired parralel,

im not sure if its tapped into rear speakers or front, all i know is he tapped it through the deck.
Fader is set at neutral
Bass is +5
Treble +5

I didn use the built in one because we couldnt find the plug that came with the amp

Im getting some bass, but not as much as i had in my old car, and the clearity is not there, its really not that pure pound im looking for

[cwp_sedan]

its a dual 4ohm

And how is it wired? The sub specifically. Look on the link above I provided and see if any of the ways they have wired it are the same as yours.

[thanu31]

im not 100% but from my knowledge, it looks like diagram 2



btw.thanks for all the help

[cwp_sedan]

im not 100% but from my knowledge, it looks like diagram 2



btw.thanks for all the help

If this is the case (diagram #2 on page #2), then the sub is wired correctly. When you fade your speakers on the stock deck does the sub volume lower when turned all the way to the front or the rear?

[thanu31]

yeaaa i just went to my car and played with Fader settings, sooo much better now:D
I left it at R3 now, and im getting nice bass! i could go higher but R3-R4 seems to be the best sound overall, so that answers a question, its wired to the rear speakers.
lol thanks mdass52 when i read your post i ran to my car

A little better quality would be nice, but i think thats the best im going to get unless i change my speakers rite

Thanks for all the help cwp and islandless!

[cwp_sedan]

yeaaa i just went to my car and played with Fader settings, sooo much better now:D
I left it at R3 now, and im getting nice bass! i could go higher but R3-R4 seems to be the best sound overall, so that answers a question, its wired to the rear speakers.
lol thanks mdass52 when i read your post i ran to my car

A little better quality would be nice, but i think thats the best im going to get unless i change my speakers rite

Thanks for all the help cwp and islandless!


Where is the LOC tapped into? Front or rear speakers?

lol...He obviously tapped the rear speakers for the sub which is not really what you want to do. This way though you'll be able to tone the sub down a little. Though in most cases you'll probably want to listen to the speakers faded at 0 or more in the front with the sub turned up for better clarity.

This is obviously your issue if the sub started to hit harder with it faded more towards the rear.


Glad you know what the problem was.

:)

[thanu31]

thers no alternatives rite? i mean this setup is okay rite?

unless i change deck or get those expensive LOC

[cwp_sedan]

thers no alternatives rite? i mean this setup is okay rite?

unless i change deck or get those expensive LOC

This is exactly how mine is set up. I only payed $15 for my LOC and I don't even know who makes it. I have absolutely no complaints. I have mine tapped of the front speakers though as I listen to my speakers more in the front than in the rear.

What I did ad was a volume control between the LOC and the RCAs so that I am able to turn down the volume that goes to the amp. This way it's almost like I have a fully adjustable sub control.

Your setup is perfectly fine though.

[thanu31]

thanks alot !

Volume control seems handy, but im fine for now

[S.F.W.]

thers no alternatives rite? i mean this setup is okay rite?

unless i change deck or get those expensive LOC
you don't need a super expensive LOC. Some of the best ones out there are the Navone LOC's. They range from $25-$40 Us.

[thanu31]

My gain is set at 0.5

Bass - 8db

100 Eq

would it be risky setting it a bit higher ?

[Islandless]

Your amp runs at 500 watts doesn't it? I think with a Type R you would be safe no matter what your amp is outputting so you could, in theory, run it at full power, though not usually recommended. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.. but I was using a PDX 1.600 on the Type R with no problems at all.. Gain at about 75% - 80%

[thanu31]

thats what i thought, but the guy said on the long run it might kill the amp, ...

[Islandless]

thats what i thought, but the guy said on the long run it might kill the amp, ...

From what I've read, under-powering your sub isn't the best thing to do either. If I were in your position, I would probably turn the gain up to at least 75% but in saying this I am accepting no responsibility for anything should you do so. :chuckle

[thanu31]

lol can anyone give me assurance on island man's comment?

[mdass52]

under powering your sub will damage the voice coil in the long run. You will raise the gain to get the bass you want, but your end result will be more distortion. You should always overdrive your speakers (more rms watts from the amp then the sub can handle) Keep in mind Im not telling you to put a 1500 watt rms amp to a 350 rms sub. You will get much cleaner sound from a more powerful amp

[S.F.W.]

lol can anyone give me assurance on island man's comment?
do not turn up the gain on the amp to compensate. As mdass52 says, you need your amp to be able to drive more power than the sub.

[thanu31]

so i should leave it as it is right?

[-RJ3-]

If you take a trip to Lapaloma, ask DARK3 to give it a whirl.. He is a whiz with tweaking or troubleshooting a system.

[gabbygenier]

k one thing i dont get here is by makinng the fader go more to the rear he has more bass.

that makes no sense. when you bring the fader to the raer all that does is lower the front volume, not bring the back up.

so how is his amp pushing more bass by fading to the rear.

unless he means he has the same amount of bass but can hear it a bit more since its not drowned out by the music but with the amp and sub he has he should have no problem hearing the bass

[Aitch]

^^ I think you've got it. When you set the fader to the rear, the front speakers are lowered, which means you have to turn up the volume of the whole system to get the fronts to play as they were before. This feeds more signal to the rear speakers and thus the sub, leading to more bass.

Assuming that the sub is wired up correctly, my guess would be that the amp gains are set too low. I'm not advocating turning them up close to maximum, but just because the installer said the settings were optimized does not mean that the gains were set correctly. They could be but its worth a check.

[gabbygenier]

^^ I think you've got it. When you set the fader to the rear, the front speakers are lowered, which means you have to turn up the volume of the whole system to get the fronts to play as they were before. This feeds more signal to the rear speakers and thus the sub, leading to more bass.

Assuming that the sub is wired up correctly, my guess would be that the amp gains are set too low. I'm not advocating turning them up close to maximum, but just because the installer said the settings were optimized does not mean that the gains were set correctly. They could be but its worth a check.

ya that makes sense. i think you got what i was saying but a way to see if its hooked up properly is to just crank it with the fader in the middle. then fade it to the back, if the sub gets louder (pounds more) then something is wrong cause it should not get more bass from fading since all it does is lowers the volume for the front, the back stays the same.

[thanu31]

when i adjust the fader, its a drastic change in bass from the sub. But after R3,R4, there is no more change, and requires me to turn up the volume to get more sound. Makes sense to me.

With the setting at R3, the sub sounds 10x better, but not as good as my old setup in my pro5.

So according to what you are saying, theres a problem

might take a trip down to a lapaloma meet

thanks guys

[Aitch]

I guess its possible that the rear speakers do still increase slightly as you go to R3-4. Normally either front or rears don't increase as you set the fader towards them, just the other speakers decrease.