Cylinder 3 - Potential issues

[Ex-Rolla]

Hello Everyone, wondering if someone can offer some advice...

For a little while now my engine has been hesitating. I touched up on it in [this thread (http://torontomazda3.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23120)]. I had changed the MAF sensor, cleaned my filter again but the problem still persisted.

Yesterday i decided to change my spark plugs. To my surprise, after changing the plugs, the car runs great (for now). BUT, after pulling the plugs out i notice something very alarming. The plug from Cylinder 3 was completely black and in addition to that, the tip of the plug was missing as shown in the picture.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/3800979032_4db3fba141_o.jpg

Now this has me really worried. My hope is that the piece of metal has disintegrated in the combustion chamber or somehow ended up in the oil pan. If not, that piece of metal is dancing around in the combustion chamber somewhere, waiting to do some serious damage.

So as it stands now, i'm driving around in a ticking time bomb (not literally) and i feel my car can fail at anytime. I'm sure you can all understand that this isn't a good feeling to have.

So I'd like to know if you guys have any recommendations? I'm seriously considering just trading my car in for something else before anything really bad happens, but if there are additional precautions i can take, it can save me another 4 years of payments.

I changed the ignition coil and even if that piece of metal is magically no longer there, i may still have a compression problem which will eventually lead to failure. I'm going to pull the plugs out in a couple of weeks to see what condition they are in.

Any help/recommendations would be great!

Thanks in advance.

[WhiteSpeed3]

take it do a dealer and get them to take the head off and check if its in there and while your at it might as well change the gaskets and prob do an induction service if its still not running good, if u havent cleaned your injectors yet

[notoriousb]

I can see those are iridiums... I heard it was the Bosch platinums for this car that where the tips went really loose and could fall off -- I had them in there once and one of the tips were so flimsy I pushed it abit and it crack off.. thank god it didn't fall into the combustion chamber :P

But in all reality it looks like it did disintegrate and thats prolly why u have all that black stuff on the plug... Why didn't you take a flash light when you took the plug out and look in the chamber? Sometimes you would be able to see shit in there. I think you should look to sell it soon.

[Flagrum_3]

Don't wait 2 weeks first of all! If you have a problem with the cylinder, it'll show very quickly on the plugs.Do a compression test ASAP as it's a very simple procedure and will tell volumes!....Hopefully the compression test comes back positive then you would be looking at possibly a premature plug or coil failure, which could have caused the problem in the first place.


_3

[chinsterr]

I can see those are iridiums... I heard it was the Bosch platinums for this car that where the tips went really loose and could fall off -- I had them in there once and one of the tips were so flimsy I pushed it abit and it crack off.. thank god it didn't fall into the combustion chamber :P

But in all reality it looks like it did disintegrate and thats prolly why u have all that black stuff on the plug... Why didn't you take a flash light when you took the plug out and look in the chamber? Sometimes you would be able to see shit in there. I think you should look to sell it soon.

lol!

[Ex-Rolla]

I'll pull the plugs out tonight and take a look at them. Also, i'll see if i can get a compression test done after work today at my buddies shop. I think he is equipment for it.

Thanks for the advice everyone, and if all else fails, i will consider selling the car. Driving to Florida (stopping in NYC first) in September for 3 weeks, so I need to make sure the car is reliable.

[Chester_Lampwick]

You could put a magnetic pick up tool through the plug hole and fish up debris.

It seems to me these aren't the factory plugs, seeing as you've changed the ignition coil. Now, I'm not sure how many miles you've put on, but you probably shouldn't need to do any ignition service until at least 160,000 kms. It's likely a DIYer trying to save a few bucks bent the top of the electrode rather than the side while gapping them. This makes them weak and prone to break. Mechanics should know better.

You'd throw a "Check Engine" light as soon as you started having issues. #2 plug looks bad too. If the car is running good now, try not to worry about it.

[Ex-Rolla]

You could put a magnetic pick up tool through the plug hole and fish up debris.

It seems to me these aren't the factory plugs, seeing as you've changed the ignition coil. Now, I'm not sure how many miles you've put on, but you probably shouldn't need to do any ignition service until at least 160,000 kms. It's likely a DIYer trying to save a few bucks bent the top of the electrode rather than the side while gapping them. This makes them weak and prone to break. Mechanics should know better.

You'd throw a "Check Engine" light as soon as you started having issues. #2 plug looks bad too. If the car is running good now, try not to worry about it.


lol... that DIYer was me... The plugs are Iridium plugs, no gapping, no modifications, torqued to oem spec when i installed them. I've done it before on my old car. I had changed them at 50,000 km and my car now has 160,000 km.

I changed the coil as to eliminate a potential cause of the problem. I figured if i'm changing the plugs i may as well change the coil the problem plug was connected to... just as a precaution really.

Here's a pic of the coil.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3552/3800769859_64722aefde_o.jpg

[Ex-Rolla]

Still haven't had the time to get the test done... Hopefully sometime between Monday and Wednesday. Will post the results once done.

[Harbour Rat]

I'd guess the plugs in cylinders 2 and 3 were loose. Number 3 was worse, as indicated by how badly the outside of the shell and insulator crusted it is with what appears to be combustion deposits, but number 2 shows signs of leakage too. The coils boots for both those cylinders are also show similar deposits and/or heat damage.

As for the missing ground electrode, it probably went out the exhaust. Probably, maybe not. As someone else said, you could pull the head to get a look. Another option, possibly less expensive, definitely less work, would be a fibre-optic camera down the spark plug hole. I have no idea where you would buy or rent such a thing but you may find someone somewhere who can help with this.

[hondaciviceg]

No need to worry, the tip of the plug that has come off has entered the cylinder on top of the piston and the piston has pushed it out from the exhaust valve. so that little piece is probably stock at the start of your catalytic convertor, which will not cause any problems anymore, and the reason why the plug with the broken tip is black is because gas was sprayed in the chamber but no ignition to light it up so it’s nothing, you should be fine now.

[Flagrum_3]

I'd guess the plugs in cylinders 2 and 3 were loose. Number 3 was worse, as indicated by how badly the outside of the shell and insulator crusted it is with what appears to be combustion deposits, but number 2 shows signs of leakage too. The coils boots for both those cylinders are also show similar deposits and/or heat damage.
As for the missing ground electrode, it probably went out the exhaust. Probably, maybe not. As someone else said, you could pull the head to get a look. Another option, possibly less expensive, definitely less work, would be a fibre-optic camera down the spark plug hole. I have no idea where you would buy or rent such a thing but you may find someone somewhere who can help with this.

You may be right HR, didn't notice that at first with my lousy monitor, but makes sense!

Ex-Rolla let us know....:)


_3

[Ex-Rolla]

Hey guys, since replacing the plugs on Friday, the car has felt much better.

I still feel uncomfortable driving the car, but it seems to be fine. I pulled the plugs out last night and they all seem to be ok. I still haven't had the compression test done due to working late/lack of time, but so far so good.

I may just trade the car in anyway ;)

edit: Forgot to say thanks a bunch for the help/advice... this site rocks!

[Harbour Rat]

If the engine is running OK, not using abnormal amounts of oil and not making rude noises I'd say you are probably OK.