SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil.

[htc***]

I just came accross an article about Motor Oil.

Here is the link

http://www.synlube.com/sae5w-20.htm

See another link

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=518

Let you decide what viscosity should use.

[Walrus]

lol I switched to 5w30 synthetic a while ago

[marvin24k]

Interesting article!

[cinder88]

That has got be be the biggest load of horse crap I have ever heard.
Where do they back up this claim
"You get about 1% better fuel economy, but you get 30% shorter engine life !

The above statement is based on real life experience and is comparison to SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil."

-----Where is evidence backing up this claim-----? what "real life experiences"?

Go to "bob is the oil guy dot com" and read through the hundreds of oil analysis on 20 weight oils..... a majority have better wear numbers than their 30 weight comparables. In fact there are many cars that have over 200,000 MILES on nothing but 5w-20 oils, in both very hot and cold climates.

That web site should be taken with a grain of salt - there is some useful info on oils/visc/and ect..... but the 20 weight scare campaign is complete BS.

for many people on this forum a 20 weight will do fine/possibly better than a 30 weight.

[cinder88]

Both of these sites rely on speculation "may" and "probably", not only oil analysis to back up their so called theories ---- what a joke...:)

[TheMAN]

That has got be be the biggest load of horse crap I have ever heard.
Where do they back up this claim
"You get about 1% better fuel economy, but you get 30% shorter engine life !

The above statement is based on real life experience and is comparison to SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil."

-----Where is evidence backing up this claim-----? what "real life experiences"?

Go to "bob is the oil guy dot com" and read through the hundreds of oil analysis on 20 weight oils..... a majority have better wear numbers than their 30 weight comparables. In fact there are many cars that have over 200,000 MILES on nothing but 5w-20 oils, in both very hot and cold climates.

That web site should be taken with a grain of salt - there is some useful info on oils/visc/and ect..... but the 20 weight scare campaign is complete BS.

for many people on this forum a 20 weight will do fine/possibly better than a 30 weight.
just like BITOG should be taken with a grain of salt also

just like the 2nd article rhetorically asks, why does the european market mazdas recommend ONLY either 5W30 or 10W40 oils when it's the same engines? europeans care more about fuel economy than we do too since motor oil and gas prices are crazy expensive there

I tell you what though... when I got the 3, it burned up half a quart of that 5W20 factory fill in 5000km... I see this in other 3s and 6s also... they all use 5W20... they're properly maintained and run good too... my 3 doesn't burn oil anymore using 0W30 german castrol with 16000km changes

so believe whatever you want to believe... I rather anyone not put their foot down about any particulars such as being skeptical since motor oil debate is as much controversy as religion

in otherwords, arguing about oil is pretty silly

[LovemyMazda]

I've done lots of research. I use Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 with a premium Wix Filter. I have done 3 used oil analysis on 7000 km oil change intervals. They Keep getting better. This oil works Great in my Mazda3 2.0Litre.

[TheMAN]

I never used this oil but I read great things about it on BITOG... so you can't go wrong!

[Gen1GT]

The only problem I have with the first article is that he doesn't emphasize viscosity index enough. If you had a 5w20 with a high VI, it can be better than a 5w30 with a lower VI.

Mobil 1 5W20
Viscosoty Index:163
Centistokes at 100 C: 8.8
Pour point: -47 C

Pennzoil 5W30
Viscosity Index:158
Centistokes at 100 C: 10.5
Pour point:-39

So non-synthetic 5W30 has a marginal increase in high temperature viscosity, but the Mobil 1 is way better at lower temperatures. I'd love to know the pour point of Mobil 1 0W40, but they don't publish it. Could be the best all around oil on the planet, however.

[TheMAN]

is this pennzoil platinum you are talking about?
there's other oils that have crazy low temperature pour points, like redline and amsoil

realistically, I'd have better things to worry about when it hits -40... low temperature flow is important, but high temperature protection is even more important

[Mazda3X2]

+1

Pour point kind of loses importance when you get into the range that most any 5 weight synthetic oil can meet.


I'd love to know the pour point of Mobil 1 0W40, but they don't publish it. Could be the best all around oil on the planet, however.

What do you have to back this claim? I do see that it meets some pretty demanding requirements such as MB's 229.5 & AECA's A3.

I'm not a big Mobil 1 fan nor will I call myself an oil expert, more of an enthusiast. I haven't used Mobile one for quite some time now. Most of their formulations changed years ago becoming North America's Grp III synthetic and I'm not sure anymore which, if any are a true Grp IV. I picked up valve train noise with Mobil 1 in my Mustang GT years ago and never went back.

PP has gotten some amazing UOA's and has quite a following. Probably one, if not the best bang for your buck out there in a 5W20.

[Gen1GT]

+1

Pour point kind of loses importance when you get into the range that most any 5 weight synthetic oil can meet.



What do you have to back this claim? I do see that it meets some pretty demanding requirements such as MB's 229.5 & AECA's A3.

I'm not a big Mobil 1 fan nor will I call myself an oil expert, more of an enthusiast. I haven't used Mobile one for quite some time now. Most of their formulations changed years ago becoming North America's Grp III synthetic and I'm not sure anymore which, if any are a true Grp IV. I picked up valve train noise with Mobil 1 in my Mustang GT years ago and never went back.

PP has gotten some amazing UOA's and has quite a following. Probably one, if not the best bang for your buck out there in a 5W20.

First I'll address Edwin: it's not just being able to start a car when it's -40 C out. The lower the oil's pour point, the lower the low temperature viscosity, and the better the engine will run before it's up to operating temperature. Even if it's just 15 C out, not only will it warm up more quickly (because higher viscosity oil takes longer to warm up), the travel done before full operating temps will be more reliable and efficient.

Regarding Mobil 1 0W40: It's viscosity at 100 C is 14 centistokes. Flashpoint is 230 C (higher flash point oil doesn't burn off the combustion chamber walls as easily). Viscosity Index is 186, and based on their 5W30 synthetic, I'm sure its pour point is better than -50 C.

What do you want me to compare it to? Amsoil?

Amsoil 5W40 is the closest grade. It's viscosity at 100 C is 13.7 centistokes. Flashpoint is also 230 C. Viscosity index is 177. Pour point is -42 C

Amsoil is overrated. The only motor oil better than Mobil 1 is the super expensive ones, like Royal Purple or Redline.

[Mazda3X2]

You actually didn't address anything about Mobile 1 other than quoting from it's product data sheet.

I use German Castrol 0W30 in my MS3. It meets the same requirements and is a true Grp IV synthetic. It's grade is probably close to that of the Mobile 0W40 alothough I haven't researched this.

You're obviously a big believer in your oil which is great, as am I. Oils have been discussed to death on these and other forums. You just came off sounding like a salesman.

[TheMAN]

to be fair, PP is also a group III oil
amsoil maybe overrated, but it sure as hell is better than that "secret" mobil1 crap.... amsoil is basically group IV anyway

GC is bang for the buck as far as a good and cheap group IV goes
I'll stick to redline for my protege and GC for other new cars... maxlife blend for my old cars!

[ShortBus]

mobil 1 is a group 3 also, only group 4 in the "regular" grades is the extended performance line.

if you are looking for cheap 0w30 look for xd-3.

i'm switching my 3 over to 5w30 for summer and 0w30 in the winter soon.

[Gen1GT]

My point by backing Mobil, is that a synthetic created from dino oil (group 3) can be just as good as a full synthetic. Mobil has spent billions of dollars producing the best oils on the planet. I just trust products from companies that large. Being a hydraulic specialist, I know more than my fair share about oil. So when I'm posting up viscosity index figures, I actually know what it means, and why a larger number is more important.

I got a 1 MPG increase in fuel economy from switching from 5w20 regular oil to 5w30 Mobil 1.

[ShortBus]

but mobil 1 0w40 is not a group 3 oil.

[TheMAN]

My point by backing Mobil, is that a synthetic created from dino oil (group 3) can be just as good as a full synthetic. Mobil has spent billions of dollars producing the best oils on the planet. I just trust products from companies that large.:blah

[Gen1GT]

but mobil 1 0w40 is not a group 3 oil.

How do you know this? Mobil 1 used to be Group 4, but dropped the PAO for cost reasons. They don't publish anything about their base stock content, so how do you know they're group 2? It doesn't matter anyway, because what's important is performance. It could be made from ear wax and Jim Bean for all I care, as long as it performs. There is no non- "true" synthetic that performs better than Mobil 1. Period.

Unless you can prove otherwise, there isn't much of an arguement.

[Mazda3X2]

Unless you can prove otherwise, there isn't much of an arguement.

There's no argument with someone with your stance on this subject anyways.

Mobil 1 has more fanbois out there than any other company I swear.

[ShortBus]

How do you know this? Mobil 1 used to be Group 4, but dropped the PAO for cost reasons. They don't publish anything about their base stock content, so how do you know they're group 2? It doesn't matter anyway, because what's important is performance. It could be made from ear wax and Jim Bean for all I care, as long as it performs. There is no non- "true" synthetic that performs better than Mobil 1. Period.

Unless you can prove otherwise, there isn't much of an arguement.

never said they were a group 2, i just said they were not a group 3 relating to you last post below and you previously posted data on mobil 1 0w-40. any oil with an 0w-** cannot be a group 3 or lower, they are a grouop 4 or 5.


My point by backing Mobil, is that a synthetic created from dino oil (group 3) can be just as good as a full synthetic. Mobil has spent billions of dollars producing the best oils on the planet. I just trust products from companies that large. Being a hydraulic specialist, I know more than my fair share about oil. So when I'm posting up viscosity index figures, I actually know what it means, and why a larger number is more important.

I got a 1 MPG increase in fuel economy from switching from 5w20 regular oil to 5w30 Mobil 1.

[Flagrum_3]

Nvm









_3

[TheMAN]

There's no argument with someone with your stance on this subject anyways.

Mobil 1 has more fanbois out there than any other company I swear.
yeah.... and the more a big "trustworthy" company like mobil withholds vital information, the more skeptical people get

there's no reason to continue this thread... he likes mobil1, that's f'ing fine to me... his money, his choice... just don't say "it's the best" even though it's pretty good stuff
"best" is a subjective term!

[philipfreire]

No matter what oil you use, they all suck. Your engine will eventually break down. Its normal for wear and tear.

Its actually the engines manufactors fault. They can build engines that will run and last well over millions of KM, but it comes down to one thing: $

Oil is going to help protect, but never stop the inevitable. I think your all going way over board on this hole subject. Just use any synthetic or non synthetic oil, do your regular oil changes and all will be fine.

No need to bicker over which is better. Unless you fully understand the process of refining oil, manufacturing, testing in engine wear and whatnot, no one can truely say one oil is better than another.

Every company out there wants to succeed, so of course their going to be biased towards marketing their own product. And with that, companies will mislead consumers into buying their product.

[Gen1GT]

No matter what oil you use, they all suck. Your engine will eventually break down. Its normal for wear and tear.

Its actually the engines manufactors fault. They can build engines that will run and last well over millions of KM, but it comes down to one thing: $

Oil is going to help protect, but never stop the inevitable. I think your all going way over board on this hole subject. Just use any synthetic or non synthetic oil, do your regular oil changes and all will be fine.

No need to bicker over which is better. Unless you fully understand the process of refining oil, manufacturing, testing in engine wear and whatnot, no one can truely say one oil is better than another.
Every company out there wants to succeed, so of course their going to be biased towards marketing their own product. And with that, companies will mislead consumers into buying their product.

So, unless we're chemical engineers and tribologists we're not allowed to discuss which oils are better? I think you're right to a certain extent, that the engine the oil is in makes as much a difference as the oil itself, but oil is still the single most important thing.

In hydraulics, the number one cause of machine failure is poor hydraulic oil. Manufacturers have rigid standards for the quality of oil that gets used in their pumps, valves and motors. And since machines with hydraulic equipment can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars or more, maintaining oil quality is paramount. There are hydraulic filters than can filter 2 microns to 99.99% efficiency, and can cost $30,000. If keeping your oil in good condition is that important, you can't say that oil choice doesn't matter either.

When it comes to oil, there's nothing misleading. I can have our oil lab in Welland analyze any oil to tell you what its quality is as far as viscosity, viscosity index, TAN and TBN, pour point, flash point etc. When you see a data sheet for any particular oil, they're not going to mislead you on its quality.

[Gen1GT]

yeah.... and the more a big "trustworthy" company like mobil withholds vital information, the more skeptical people get

there's no reason to continue this thread... he likes mobil1, that's f'ing fine to me... his money, his choice... just don't say "it's the best" even though it's pretty good stuff
"best" is a subjective term!

I said, "best all-around oil." Part of that conclusion is also based on price. I'm not biased towards Mobil any more than I'm biased towards Ferrari. I just recognize that they have good product. Prove me differently.

[TheMAN]

there's plenty of other "best all around oils"
this is not BITOG
bring your mobil1 fanaticism there

[Reaper]

I learned a lot. Thanks OP and other Tm3 members.

[Gen1GT]

there's plenty of other "best all around oils"
this is not BITOG
bring your mobil1 fanaticism there

I share the same Fanaticism with the best engine makers on the planet. Do you think maybe there's something they know, that we do not, about engines and oil and why they choose Mobil 1 more than anything else?

[WLS ZMZM]

I'm with you guys on this one... really only try to buy Mobil 1 5w-20 I've experimented with a few different oils and hands down the car runs better with it... my only issue is why we have to pay nearly 50 bucks for 4l of the "good stuff" when its $25 for 4.75L in the US!!! even with the conversion rate its like getting a quart for free and paying almost half price lol

[condor888000]

Watch the sales. In fact M1 is on sale at CT starting tomorrow.

[ShortBus]

I share the same Fanaticism with the best engine makers on the planet. Do you think maybe there's something they know, that we do not, about engines and oil and why they choose Mobil 1 more than anything else?

depends on what you think is "the best" because if it's ferrari, they factory fill with shell (aka pennzoil/qs) not mobil 1.

[ThucP]

is ENEOS oil group 3 , 4 , or 5

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

I share the same Fanaticism with the best engine makers on the planet. Do you think maybe there's something they know, that we do not, about engines and oil and why they choose Mobil 1 more than anything else?

It's called economics of scale and good marketing.

[Mazda3X2]

Just because a company spends the most $$ pushing their product and on advertising doesn't make it "the best" product. There are many examples of this, GM for example advertises and pushes their vehicles more than just about any other manufacturer. Need I say more?

[Flagrum_3]

You guys can go arguing about this for ages and it'll never be settled lol.

Anyways point is; Will the oil, whichever oil you choose, work and protect sufficiently? I have used the Mobil1 5w-20 product for approx 80k of my present 116k mileaged engine...Never had a problem, lost not a drop of oil the whole time and most times when changing out the oil, it was still clean!! So I'd have to say it works well enough....remember we don't have race engines here lol.

I presently run GC 0w-30 only because I wanted the 0W added protection and low temp flow and if the mobil1 would start selling cheaper then I can get the GC, I'd probably still use it. :)


_3

[Mazda3X2]

I'm trying to say that Mobil is a crap oil.

Just that it's awfull hard to take someone coming on stating it is the "best all around oil".

Try something like, "I use Mobil 1 and have had really great experiences with it for years now, a great oil".

Personally I like GC 0W30. Never would I try to push it on people or say "it is the best oil out there". That's just me.

Anyways.....that's the last I'll say.

[Gen1GT]

I'm trying to say that Mobil is a crap oil.

Just that it's awfull hard to take someone coming on stating it is the "best all around oil".

Try something like, "I use Mobil 1 and have had really great experiences with it for years now, a great oil".

Personally I like GC 0W30. Never would I try to push it on people or say "it is the best oil out there". That's just me.

Anyways.....that's the last I'll say.

I agree 100% about your previous comment, and while I was reading the first sentence, I was thinking, "...reminds me of GM."

I don't have an engine dyno with 10 engines running full throttle with various oils to test which ones show the best results. I can only judge oils based on their specifications. I know enough about lubrication to make a judgement call. It's no different from judging a baseball player from their stats.

[Mazda3X2]

I just read this again and in my first sentence I meant to say

"I'm not trying to say Mobile is a crap oil."

I can't edit that post anymore, been too long I guess.

[Flagrum_3]

I just read this again and in my first sentence I meant to say

"I'm not trying to say Mobile is a crap oil."

I can't edit that post anymore, been too long I guess.

Sortof figured that, since the rest of the post would have made no sense. :chuckle


_3

[TheMAN]

I agree 100% about your previous comment, and while I was reading the first sentence, I was thinking, "...reminds me of GM."

I don't have an engine dyno with 10 engines running full throttle with various oils to test which ones show the best results. I can only judge oils based on their specifications. I know enough about lubrication to make a judgement call. It's no different from judging a baseball player from their stats.
just because you know "enough about lubrication" doesn't make you a petroleum specialist nor a chemist

fact of the matter is, there ARE better motor oils out there that have a higher flash point, better viscosity index, BETTER ADDITIVE PACKAGES (practically the most important matter), BETTER base stocks, BETTER shear strength, BETTER base numbers, etc

the question is, how much you want to spend, what your "requirements" are, and how much you are willing to go out of your way to get it

regardless, there are other brands of oils that EQUAL or BETTER mobil1 at the same price levels or cheaper... this has been talked to death on BITOG and there are facts to back that up.... the way you are presenting yourself in this thread, you're trying to pass off yourself as some sort of petroleum expert when you are not and there are far many people who know WAY more than you do on BITOG... there lies the problem people have with you in this thread.... how you are presenting yourself.... so far aside from the few numbers you posted in the last page, you are losing ground because I've seen nothing but BS from you so far

by far, mobil1 isn't crap oil compared to some other "lesser" brands of "synthetics" out there, but it damn sure isn't going to "win shows" either.... it's just good at doing what its price level is and that's it

people who aren't gullible and don't buy into marketing BS look past the brands and specs and truely look at actual oil analyses to see what the oil really is and if it uses the better base stocks... these people TRUELY try to get the bang for the buck.... why pay 10 bucks for brand A when brand B is slightly better for the same price?
so in otherwords, as I and others said already, there are better oils than mobil1... if you want to blindly use mobil1 like the rest of the sheep, that's fine... no harm done, but the truely informed will just keep on using the "lesser" brands that are truely better


just blindly following one brand is stupid..... just like a person, no one company/brand is the best at everything... each person/company makes something awesome but suck at many other things (ignoring for a minute that there's plenty that suck at everything)... so just like how toyota make a few awesomely reliable cars, doesn't make them THE cars to own... or mazda making great handling cars, doesn't make them better than toyota in the (piston) engine department

[Gen1GT]

Wow, you just hate it when someone knows more than you, don't you Edwin?

[TheMAN]

you got it wrong
I hate it when people try to make themselves appear they know MORE than me

there's plenty of people who know more than me on BITOG (even though I don't post there)... if its an issue like you say I am having, then omg... I would've had insomnia a long time ago!