The "Nightmare" Story

[FoXy]

I believe that the story needs to be shared, that is why I am posting this. I brought my car to Scarboro Mazda about a month ago to have the tranny looked at because the tranny was sticking and grinding into second. So i leave it there all day and when I come back to pick it up they tell me they see nothing wrong and that I can take the car back.

So unsatisfied with that answer I take my car to Agincourt because I had heard good reviews about their service department. I had 2 shop techs and then the shop forman drive my car to see what I was talking about. They finally agreed to do the synchros and 2nd gear. So I wait for the parts to come in and then bring my car back there this past Wednesday. I leave the car there around 11 and Karen calls me around 3 or 4 to tell me that there is a problem. She tells me that "someone" has effed up my axles on both sides on the front of the car. She tells me then that it was man made damage and that she will try and put it thru under warranty but doubts it will be approved.

At this point I have NO IDEA how this could have happened to my car considering it is an 08 with 37000 kms on it. Also my car is almost stock, engine and suspension wise. So when I can finally get a ride there the next day I go in with my friend Adam to take a look at the parts. When i get there I see that indeed the axles are badly damaged and need to be replaced. Someone had hammered out the axle and mushroomed the ends and then ground the ends down to get the nut back on the end of the axle, in turn stripping the threads completely on the drivers side and leaving 2 threads on the passenger side.

Karen then starts asking me where I have taken my car to have it serviced. I have NEVER had my car worked on in that area by anyone other than Agincourt... and Dan, who installed my Eibach Prokit springs. So of course I ask Dan if he dropped the axle to install the springs and he tells me that he did not and that he installed them a different way. Which is ENTIRELY possible. I asked Jimmy (Street Performance) and he confirms that yes you can drop the axle, but you do not HAVE to in order to do the springs. So at this point there are only 2 ppl who have touched my car there. Dan and the shop forman at agincourt and his lackie apprentice. Now I don't know WHO effed it up but no one wants to admit to it.

That being said, Karen admits that her techs HAMMERED out the axle to get it apart. The ends were mushroomed when I got there because adam tried to put the nut on both axles and it would only fit onto the one side. Karens reason for that is that the nuts are different on either side, which I know is not true, I confirmed that. Then she said that the nut on the end was not an OEM and then when we asked to see the nut to see where it possibly came from, she changed the story and then said it WAS an OEM nut. Now I really don't know how I could have been driving around for 4 months with stripped axles without the nut coming loose at all. Especially considering there were NO threads left on the drivers side. And I know that when the nut is loose you will a clicking noise, followed by a clunking noise followed by your wheel collapsing. But still... No one will take responsibility.

Karen gets VERY defensive, which I can understand because my friend and I were not exactly the most understanding ppl about the situation. But I mean honestly, at this point I am just flamingly pissed off because my car is screwed and I did not break it YET and am being told that I have to pay out of my own pocket to pay for it.

After becoming angry with my friend and myself because she didn’t like being accused, she then BANS my friend from the dealership and tells me she isn’t going to help me and that the parts will not be covered under warranty. Dan offers to help my by getting used axles from a wrecker to replace the old ones because he feels bad that Karen is blaming this on him saying that he effed up the axles. At this point it is Friday and I want my car back.

Karen DID offer to install the supplied axles at no charge, although I don’t know why she would charge me anyways considering they had to take out the axles to get at the tranny and in the end a pair of axles would have had to go back in ANYWAYS. So Dan brings them and watches the shop foreman to install them to make sure everything is legit and the car is done. But because my friend went in the and argued with them and just wanted answers and the dealership wasn’t willing to admit to any wrong doing she then gets vengeful and tells me that shes will NOT put them in for free and is going to put the car back together with the stripped axles. When Dan got there she changed her mind and ended up putting them in anyways and put my old ones in the trunk.

IF I had to leave the dealership with the faulty axles I would have had to tow the car to Jimmy to have him install them.
So basically there was a whole lot of arguing, a whole lot of hurt feelings, and a whole lot of denying when someone knows they did it. I didn’t care who did it, all i cared about was that I personally did not have to pay to fix something that I didn’t even know was effed up in the first place.

I arrive yesterday afternoon to pick up the car and speak to Karen about this issue. She at this point is fed up with me and just doesn’t want to see me or my car back there again. I speak with her and tell her that I have no personal disrespect against her but this is BS. She needs to understand where I am coming from as the victim with the broken vehicle. She tells me that she WOULD have tried to help me more had my friend not offended her and pissed her off. She then states “Do you not think that I could have pulled something, that I couldn’t have put the axles thru on the warranty on a used car on this lot?” And I am thinking to myself... “well then why didn’t you suggest that all along instead of going to mazda Canada with pics of my axles telling them that it was manmade damage?”

Make a long story short, I have my axles replaced (although not new ones), and Agincourt would not even admit that there could be a possibility that one of their techs (or apprentices) could have messed it up accidentally while taking it apart. I have nothing to go by other than ppls words but SOMEONE is f**king lying here, and it SURE AS HELL isn’t me.

I appreciate that Agincourt did my tranny and did a good job on it, HOWEVER i will not ever be bringing my car back to Agincourt because they are shady, too easy to be defensive and probably cus I am banned from there now anyways.

I believe that they had some part in the damage of the axles, whether it be all fault, or partial fault, meaning they screwed them up even more while taking them off. Who here believes that I could be driving around with axles stripped that long and hear NOTHING coming from the wheel wells.

I am sorry if Karen/Agincourt is offended but personally I don’t care that much because I’m the one with the broken car, all they want to do is blame Dan for it and take it out on me, even tho Dan gives me his word that he did not do it. ALL I WANTED ALL ALONG was for my car to get fixed at no charge to me... because whoever did it (and I don’t care who) needed to own up and pay for the damages... that is all that I wanted.

/rant

[DumpInfo]

That is clearly ****ed up! Shit like that freaks me out. Girl you gotta go to MoT I'm telling you...who cares about the drive it's worth it in the long run. TRUST ME!

[stormin84]

hold on Karen admits that they wrecked the axles...then they won't replace it...DID I GET THAT RIGHT?

[optiklenz13]

oh snap, that is really terrible Katherine..

[S.F.W.]

hold on Karen admits that they wrecked the axles...then they won't replace it...DID I GET THAT RIGHT?

no. Agincourt/Karen said they were unsure how the axles were damaged. Simply said if they had screwed them up, they would have made it right.

[Malcolm991]

That is too bad that you got such bad service! I guess it's hard to find good qualified people to do work these days!

[cwp_sedan]

:pop

[joghia]

Wow that sucks...really...seriously, go to MOT or even DWM from now on. It really is worth the drive.

[S.F.W.]

Wow that sucks...really...seriously, go to MOT or even DWM from now on. It really is worth the drive.
I've had my share of challenges with MoT service. Cracked oil filter housing, 24 hours after an oil change. Rust repairs not completed properly.

[joghia]

Well, I've only *heard* good things from MOT. I personally make the trek to DWM because I've never had problems with them.

[stormin84]

When i get there I see that indeed the axles are badly damaged and need to be replaced. Someone had hammered out the axle and mushroomed the ends and then ground the ends down to get the nut back on the end of the axle, in turn stripping the threads completely on the drivers side and leaving 2 threads on the passenger side.

That being said, Karen admits that her techs HAMMERED out the axle to get it apart. The ends were mushroomed when I got there because adam tried to put the nut on both axles and it would only fit onto the one side. Karens reason for that is that the nuts are different on either side, which I know is not true, I confirmed that. Then she said that the nut on the end was not an OEM and then when we asked to see the nut to see where it possibly came from, she changed the story and then said it WAS an OEM nut. Now I really don't know how I could have been driving around for 4 months with stripped axles without the nut coming loose at all. Especially considering there were NO threads left on the drivers side. And I know that when the nut is loose you will a clicking noise, followed by a clunking noise followed by your wheel collapsing. But still... No one will take responsibility.




no. Agincourt/Karen said they were unsure how the axles were damaged. Simply said if they had screwed them up, they would have made it right.

Well the bold section states that Karen told FOXY that someone hammered the axles and mushrooms the ends. Then Karen admits that they hammered the axles to get them apart.
So does that mean Agincourt hammered the axles and caused the damaged, or did Agincourt hammered the axles when they were already damaged to it (did they cause even more damage).

Did Agincourt take pictures of the damage before they hammered the axle, if not it seems like Agincourt did the damage.

[MPS]

i had my fare share of MOT BS also
and i got banned from there (for a reason lol)
but Agincourt i had no clue i was banned till last night
and for no good reason
what ever all dealers have there problems but banning ppl out of the blue cus you cant deal with the problem is not cool Karen

[fatsock]

Wow that's insane, sorry to hear that your dealership sucks!

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Not to rain on anyone's parade over here, but how is it beyond impossible that maybe Dan accidentally or unknowingly ruined the axles ? I don't have anything against Dan as he is such a nice guy and I actually got to meet and talk with him a few times quite recently. Just trying to get some clarification on this. I'm just wondering why Dan would supply the axles if he really admits to not screwing up your axles ? I don't think I get that part. Were you there when Dan was installing your prokits to check out how he installed it in a "different way" ?

most people will not remove the driveshaft/CV joint bolt to change the front struts/springs as they are one time use only stretch bolts

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

yes, you are right, this thread has absolutely nothing to do with you but you had jumped in with your ethical criticism (still can't get over this one! lol), plus untill very recently you didn't seem to be overly concerned about being private about anything... but good to see you learn from experiences - privacy of certain matters could be very important.

now back on topic.

Actually, this thread has nothing to do with any of you, (apart from Foxy, Karen and Dan), yet despite that, several of you have been very quick to jump in with criticism towards Karen and Agincourt Mazda. Some of it subtle, some of it not so subtle. It works both ways Tamara.

Foxy, I really feel for you. What transpired is indeed a nightmare and I can't blame you for being royally upset. If something like this happened with my MS3, I would have a hard time not going completely apeshit too. All this said, I wasn't there, I don't know what transpired and what didn't, and as you have said yourself, there are some 'unknowns' as to what truly might have happened as to cause of damage. Unfortunately, you may never get the real answers you deserve regarding that...

I have my own personal feelings as to what most likely happened, but that would simply be speculation and really wouldn't help you get any further here.

I wish you the best in any case.

Tim

[STeeLy]

There is definitely something that's not being said here. I won't speculate, nor would I take sides. It appears that both sides may be to blame for the verbal altercation since it would appear that temper got the best of all of those involved.

What I don't understand is that why blame was trying to be placed on Agincourt Mazda. I don't know what caused your axle to be screwed up, it also appeared that neither Foxy, Agincourt, or Dan know what caused it. It coulda been any of those 3. Hell, it coulda been Scarboro Mazda even. I have never been to that dealership, so I don't know what their service department is like, but the car was there the whole day.

I really hope that this issue is clarified and resolved so that a positive outcome can come out for all parties involved

[Noisy Crow]

I have NEVER had my car worked on in that area by anyone other than Agincourt... and Dan, who installed my Eibach Prokit springs.

This is all very strange.

In regards to your statement about not having any work done on that part of the car: No brake work? No replaced bearings? Either of those could have require detaching the hub from the axle. Bearings fail and rotors get stuck. But both sides on? On an '08? With 37K?

And it seems very weird that both axles have the problem. I could see (in theory, not blaming) Dan screwing up and damaging on axle. But both? No way.

On the gripping hand... as asked before... did Scarborough Mazda take anything apart?

[FoXy]

For everyones information... Scarboro claims that they didnt touch the car for the 9 hours it was there other then driving it. And yes, in theory they could have effed it up and then claimed they never touched it to cover it up. That would work.

As for the "punk ass kid"... Hes not a punk ass kid and he wasnt as rude as you all may think, he just simply asked some valid questions that Karen could not/would not give an answer for.

And no... no brake work or bearings... otherwise I would have mentioned that.

I have no reason to lie here, i just wanted to get some work done, and if it was good work then I would be MORE THAN happy to praise the shop/dealer for it.

As for the women here with all the catty comments... I think you should all mind your own business and stop perpetuating the bullshyt. I dont give a shyt about Kristina and her personal life, nor do I care for Mazdabetty commenting on her 2 cents for what was said between speedbaby and mzkaye. Thats NOT what this thread is about so please keep the high skewl bs out of this.

Muchly appreciated.

I just would like to know what ppl think about my situation. Because it has been running thru my head since this started and I have no concrete answers as to why or how this happened(not that I really think I am going to get any, but its nice to get feedback).

Thank you.

Kat,

[jonjon72]

Foxy much like any other member on the forum has the right to post up if they felt that they were mistreated by a sponsor or dealership.

I'm not even going to pretend that I know what happened. Car repairs aren't cheap and unplanned ones would upset me as well.

Agincourt Mazda may not win everyone over but then again, not every dealership does. My dealings with Karen have been great. Perhaps you caught her on a bad day and when two people have a bad day meet up, watch out.

Its totally up to you on how you want to handle the situation with Karen, but I would suggest a one on one meeting to see if the air could be cleared up. Good luck and hope things get resolved one way or another!

[Pimpin_29y]

I am sure this is a stressful situation for all parties involved. Thread cleaned, keep this on topic.

[MPS]

ummm WTF my first post was relevant and i want it back

[kevcol74]

I don't mean to be the devils advocate here, as obviously this situation could have been handled better ....
But what about the first 37K that was on the car before Foxy bought it? Is there a complete history on the car? When the information about the axles was brought to your attention Foxy, did you contact the place you bought the car from? I'm just asking,as its information that could be very relevant. It may very well have been butchered prior to you getting the car. Yes, from your account of things, Karen could have handled it MUCH better.
I stopped going to Guelph City Mazda when they didn't take care of "free service"for me right. By "free service", I mean a warranty issue. Sometimes they look at it like the customer is trying to get something for free. Thats BS, the car was purchased for alot of money, including a warranty. Its not "free", its part of that car. That was one of the biggest reasons I bought mine, still had warranty! From a business standpoint, you try and make the customer happy the first time. If you do, they will keep coming back!

I wish you the best on this Foxy, but would love to know more on the questions above!

[wikdslo]

I just would like to know what ppl think about my situation.




I work at a shop where I have to take apart car interiors.

Before I take one apart I look for anything that is previously damaged, note it on the work order and take pictures of it BEFORE I take it apart (so you can see it's all together still).

Sometimes it happens that pieces are previously broken and I find it as I go along, same process. Document and photograph.

If it was me, I would be skeptical of how Karen handled this as well. If her tech saw that they were previously damaged from hammering on them, then continued to hammer them out anyway without any prior notification to the customer, or any visual proof (pictures) then it's pretty hard to convince a customer that they were previously damaged from hammering. So they went ahead and hammered them out some more, damaging them further? But it's not their fault?

I don't know what process Karen uses for issues like this, but apparently it's not a very good one, or else this post would not have been made.

[She_Prime]

Kev, she bought the car brand new. Those 37,000kms were put on by her over her ownership.

[kevcol74]

:blush

My bad, misread it I guess.... Now, that being the case, Foxy should REALLY be pissed....

[Dave_The_BMXER]

It sucks that the automotive industry is one that admitting your mistakes is rare and often never done. I have been in similar situations and hope it all works out for you Foxy

[Flagrum_3]

For everyones information... Scarboro claims that they didnt touch the car for the 9 hours it was there other then driving it. And yes, in theory they could have effed it up and then claimed they never touched it to cover it up. That would work.

As for the "punk ass kid"... Hes not a punk ass kid and he wasnt as rude as you all may think, he just simply asked some valid questions that Karen could not/would not give an answer for.

And no... no brake work or bearings... otherwise I would have mentioned that.

I have no reason to lie here, i just wanted to get some work done, and if it was good work then I would be MORE THAN happy to praise the shop/dealer for it.

As for the women here with all the catty comments... I think you should all mind your own business and stop perpetuating the bullshyt. I dont give a shyt about Kristina and her personal life, nor do I care for Mazdabetty commenting on her 2 cents for what was said between speedbaby and mzkaye. Thats NOT what this thread is about so please keep the high skewl bs out of this.

Muchly appreciated.

I just would like to know what ppl think about my situation. Because it has been running thru my head since this started and I have no concrete answers as to why or how this happened(not that I really think I am going to get any, but its nice to get feedback).
Thank you.

Kat,

As you say you probably will never get to the end of it....unfortunately!.Soooo you have your new (used axles) in and she's running fine...don't loose anymore sleep over it. :)

Only question now is who do you trust in the future to work on your car?


I for one have known Dan for quite awhile and trust his 'word' and 'work' 100%...no question.


In karen's defense she may not know exactly what happen either, as I'm sure she didn't actually do the work herself and it is quite possible she has been lied to also-and I don't mean by you Foxy! It's normal for people to get defensive when being accused.Plus there is another party involved although they say they did nothing.


_3

[TokyoKiller]

Wow Foxy, I am so sorry to hear about this ordeal.

You know, I really do not understand why no one seems to listen and just try out Oakville Mazda for once, I know some of you like MoT and Agincourt, or whatever dealership you are near...but Oakville Mazda will never leave you unsatisfied, if your car leaves their dealership in any way different then when you left it with them, they will remedy the problem and make sure you compensated for the unnecessary hassle.

On a side note, I find it really funny that they can just "BAN" you from the dealership, what is this? Kindergarten? Like honestly, you are running a business not a playground to just BAN people when things get heated.

A straight message to Agincourt Mazda, get your shit together and stop "BANNING" people because you could not deliver the expectations of a car enthusiast, we are not are your average customer that just walks in does the listed services and leaves, we know our cars by heart and if you are trying to pull our legs, we KNOW our cars, and what damage we potentially could have put on it.

I am saying this because I notice this isn't the first time someone is banned from this dealership, which may raise a few eyebrows...

[mazdabetty]

So seeing as my post was deleted yesterday, even though I had some valid points, I'll have to restate some of them in Karen's defense, as my experience with Agincourt was a great one.

As originally written, when a tech tells her that he didn't mess up, she needs to give that tech the benefit of the doubt and try to come up with a happy medium for the both of you. After connecting with Karen on a few different occasions, I know she's the type of person who would try to work something out for you, considering the great reputation she has built for herself here. But when your friend jumped in and began mouthing off to her, even though this had nothing to do with him, she did what ANYONE in the same situation would do when feeling threatened, she kicked you out. Whether or not you say your friend was acting inappropriately, it sure sounds like he was, as I'm pretty sure Karen wouldn't just ban someone at random for "asking a few questions".

There's a huge part of the story missing here. (There's two sides to every story right?) Before people jump in here and offer sympathies, maybe we need to hear the other side. 10 pages of great reviews don't lie, Agincourt may have had a terrible reputation prior to Karen taking over, but they have reinvented themselves and have been saving a LOT of people here a lot of grief with various warranty issues. And as I also stated before, mistakes happen, businesses are prepared to cover mistakes that their employees make. I feel that they would have no reason to deny that they made an error.

As per flagrum's post, I completely agree. I don't see an issue here or the need for more "feedback", you got exactly what you wanted.

Dan paid for your parts out of his own pocket, even though he didn't have to, and Karen installed them at no charge. I'm just curious as to the point of this thread? To ruin her reputation? It sounds like you wanted Agincourt to take full blame, even though that's not possible when she was told by her tech that the parts were previously damaged. You did the same thing with your cop thread. You were angry and jumped the gun and posted a picture of the cop car that ticketed you. This is not an adult way of handling these particular issues, and this outcome is the result of you, or your friends, attitude. If this was anyone else, or if you had spoken to her in an orderly fashion, things may have been different.

All that being said, I feel for you having to go through that, you are rightfully upset. But someone said before "don't point fingers until your hands are clean".

Just sayin.

[McGuyver_3]

I didn't want to get involved in this thread but now I think I have to when I lowered that car I DID NOT remove the axles. Karen and I spoke about it and she claims it is easier to lower a car by simply removing them but I lowered my 05 and my 10 as well as Katherine’s 3 without removing the axles because I didn't see a need to. As most of you know I do work at a dealership which I prefer stay unnamed and if I screw something up at work I either a try to fix it if it can be fixed or go to my manager and state the problem at hand and work out a solution. Working on cars you hold the safety of another person’s life in your hand and I would rather admit to my screw up then to cover it up. I did get a chance to see these axles that were removed from the car and to say the least they were more then unsafe and had I caused this damage the car would have not made it this far. I AM NOT STATING that Karen has anything to do with this as I quite frankly do not know and I am not going to push the blame on anyone I want to remain neutral. At work when and if I remove axles I use an air hammer with a punch I NEVER use a hammer exactly for this reason of mushrooming the ends. When I used to work at another dealer which I also want to have remained silent that is all we did hammered them out with a hammer. BUT we left the axle nut on the end and hammered them preventing the mushrooming. I payed and supplied these axles for the only reason being the dealer did not want to cover the axles and they wanted to re-install the old ones on the car. I can understand the dealer had no authorization to install new ones so they really had no other choice. I don't know what transpired between Katherine’s friend and Karen but that almost cost me my time spent leaving early from work going to the wreckers picking up the axles and having them installed. Karen was offended by what was said. Now I don't know what was said but it almost hindered from putting the new axles in.

[kevcol74]

My opinion from what I've heard...
Karen and her mechanics have full responsibility on this UNLESS they took pictures of the axles PRIOR to removing them themslves. If they did not, or did not contact Kat and report it to her and ask for her authorization to proceed, which should have been documented, then they have full responsibility. Obviously someone took the axles apart wrong, having mushroomed the ends and griding them down to re-install.. or, they were mushroomed TRYING to remove them, realized they couldn't, and ground them just get them out! If MCGuyver saw the axles, it should be more than obvious if the grinding was recent or not. They would have been covered in rust if it was not recent, fresh ground metal if it was.
Kat, I'd go over Karen's head on this, and go to Mazda of Canada iff you haven't already. Make damn sure you still have warranty on anything related to those axles. Being used axles, they may give you grief if you don't get something in writing saying your full warranty is still intact. Also, go through your receipt of any work you've had done. See what visit the car was in the shop long enough for anyone to access your axles.. (ie ball joint or tie rod replacement? Or just look at times of "in" and "out", min of 2 hours likely)
Karen could tell her side all she wants, but dealing with upset customers is ALWAYS going to be part of her job. That being the case, she ALWAYS needs to keep it together, and not let it get personal. Banning someone from the shop, thats personal. (unless they feel their well being, or a customer's is being threatened. Arguing a point is not threatening, even if "choice words" are used.)
She may have been defending her mechanics, which is admirable, but also not in the best interest of customer service, which IS her job.
I'm also not talking out my @$$, I was a service writer for a shop for years, I've seen my share. If you can't handle upset customers, you'd better find a new job.

[FoXy]

Kev,

Karen did call me at around 3 or 4 to tell me they were damaged. There was no mention of taking pics or anything like that. Since they close at 6 and I had no way to get there cus I was stranded at home with no car and I am outside of their shuttle "area" I had to go in the next morning.

When I got a ride the next morning and I got there the axles were laying on the floor and the car was up on the hoist. There were no pictures taken before the axles were taken out. All pics were taken after they had been removed.

As well, no rust is on the ends of the shafts. Now I am not sure whether there would be or not because I don't think they are exposed to the elements, but I'm not entirely sure.

I also agree that just cus someone interrogates you and wants answers doesn't mean that you need to get defensive and ban them. And that is what my friend did, he interrogated her and her GM with some tough questions/accusations about the car, there was no threats where she should have felt any danger. If there was nothing going on she or whoever should have been able to have VALID answers to the questions... not vague ones that make no sense (ie different sized nuts, and nuts expanding and thats why they don't fit on etc etc.)

I'm aware that Agincourt has lots of good reviews of oil changes, car washes, and warranty work that there is no reason why there should be a problem anyways, however, I did not have the same experience.

[wikdslo]

I mentioned before about the fact that pics should have been taken before the work was done as proof to provide to customers in this situation.

Also, having had to hammer these out and the main issue is signs of mushrooming from hammering seems a bit.. well.. coincidental.

What I'm wondering now is, if the end was too mangled to get the nut to go back on the axle, how did he get the nut to come OFF the axle without issue when it was already mushroomed so badly that it was useless?

I know Karen frequents these boards and obviously a lot has been talked about without her coming in to state her case.

If and/or when she does, I would be interested to know if these issues were addressed? If they were, I don't think that foxy would have had much ground to stand on at the dealership, and the whole altercation would likely not have taken place.

[kevcol74]

Kev,

Karen did call me at around 3 or 4 to tell me they were damaged. There was no mention of taking pics or anything like that. Since they close at 6 and I had no way to get there cus I was stranded at home with no car and I am outside of their shuttle "area" I had to go in the next morning.

When I got a ride the next morning and I got there the axles were laying on the floor and the car was up on the hoist. There were no pictures taken before the axles were taken out. All pics were taken after they had been removed.

As well, no rust is on the ends of the shafts. Now I am not sure whether there would be or not because I don't think they are exposed to the elements, but I'm not entirely sure.

I also agree that just cus someone interrogates you and wants answers doesn't mean that you need to get defensive and ban them. And that is what my friend did, he interrogated her and her GM with some tough questions/accusations about the car, there was no threats where she should have felt any danger. If there was nothing going on she or whoever should have been able to have VALID answers to the questions... not vague ones that make no sense (ie different sized nuts, and nuts expanding and thats why they don't fit on etc etc.)

I'm aware that Agincourt has lots of good reviews of oil changes, car washes, and warranty work that there is no reason why there should be a problem anyways, however, I did not have the same experience.

I guess my question is did they ask you if they can proceed? Or did they just inform you, and then proceeded without your approval?
One tidbit of knowledge for you. From what I understand, they told you the axle was stripped and ground down. The way axles are made, the threads will NOT strip by the nut. In other words, you can put 500 ft/lbs of torque on that nut, and you will NOT strip the axle, you will strip the nut. How is that you ask? The axles are ALWAYS made of a harder material than the nut. Simple reason, to avoid stripping the axle threads. If they cross thread or over tighten (nearly impossible due to torque tubes used) in the factory, its a hell of alot cheaper to replace a nut than an axle! You can strip a dozen axle nuts off an axle before you damage the threads.
Also, its common knowledge to anyone doing axles that you thread the nut back on the end of the axle to prevent mushrooming if you need to hammer out the axles.
And FTR, moisture has a way to find bare metal, no matter where it is! The axles would have had some sort of rust on them. But I believe you said they admitted to hammering you axles out, and likely mushroomed them, and ground them... leaving no trace of the "original damage" they claim.
I'm really curious who did it, since no one wants to own up to it. Some :AH that thought he knew more than he did.
Good luck Kat, i hope you can get it all figured out, and for those that gave you the short end of the stick... Karma is a bitch!!

[aris]

Good luck Kat, i hope you can get it all figured out, and for those that gave you the short end of the stick... Karma is a bitch!!

+1


Sucks that this happened to you..

[mzkaye729]

I know Karen frequents these boards and obviously a lot has been talked about without her coming in to state her case.

If and/or when she does, I would be interested to know if these issues were addressed? If they were, I don't think that foxy would have had much ground to stand on at the dealership, and the whole altercation would likely not have taken place.

Karen had posted she will not be responding to the "nightmare story" in this post (it was located in another thread):

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=504072&postcount=25 (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=504072&postcount=25)

[kevcol74]

^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story". We are not all a "judge and jury" out here, but rather some of us would like to help everyone find the answers to questions that are causing the problem. If she cares about her customers and her reputation, she'd still try and help resolve this, and not just "ban" everyone so as to not have to deal with it.
IMO, I will never touch Agincourt at this point, saving a few bucks and covering their asses is more important than customer satisfaction. I have no doubt Mat over at Forbes Mazda in Waterloo would do whatever it took to make the customer walk out happy. Thats why I'm taking my Ford Escape to a Mazda dealer for work. Mat has impressed me so much, that he has my Ford business now!

[S.F.W.]

Thats why I'm taking my Ford Escape to a Mazda dealer for work. Mat has impressed me so much, that he has my Ford business now!
And Karen has impressed me to the extent, she is getting my Mazda, Toyota, and Ford business.
As for weak in not posting a response. I disagree, it's her/Agicnourt's choice not to get into a way of words, as nothing is likely to get accomplished.

[kevcol74]

^ Its a tough call, some of us would like all the details to help resolve things for both parties, but some members will just use it as fuel to attack Karen... so its unfortunate, but I understand if she doesn't respond....
Its like playing Clue right now... I just want to solve the mystery! lol

[DumpInfo]

I knew this thread would definitely get out of hand. I'm surprised it's not locked yet.

[FLIPDADY]

Thats why I'm taking my Ford Escape to a Mazda dealer for work. Mat has impressed me so much, that he has my Ford business now!
Escape/Tribute = same thing:chuckle

I think the Escape is better equipped though.

[aris]

[QUOTE=kevcol74;505113]^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story". We are not all a "judge and jury" out here, but rather some of us would like to help everyone find the answers to questions that are causing the problem. If she cares about her customers and her reputation, she'd still try and help resolve this, and not just "ban" everyone so as to not have to deal with it.
IMO, I will never touch Agincourt at this point, saving a few bucks and covering their asses is more important than customer satisfaction. I have no doubt Mat over at Forbes Mazda in Waterloo would do whatever it took to make the customer walk out happy.QUOTE]


Well said kev

[MattC]

Shitty deal man,

But its yet another reason why you never let a stealership touch your car.

Obviously only knowing your perspective on the story it seems like this employee conducted herself in a extremely unprofessional manor. My question would be, If she and her techs were innocent, why give such an emotional response and get so agitated?

If in fact they were completely in the clear, she would only need to keep stating the facts, and apologize for the fact there is nothing they can do.

+1 to Dan, he is a stand up guy and definitely deserves a beer for his effort on this one.

[Silv3r]

Wow what a nightmare indeed. Sorry for your bad "luck" Foxy. I always feel like I have problems with car repairs but I don't think I have had anything like this happen (came close but your takes the cake). I'm kinda disappointed I didn't jump into the thread sooner before it got cleaned up! Who needs t.v ? :)

Jokes asides, shame there will probably be no reply from Karen but its understandable as to why a written response on here will not be forthcoming.

If I were you and truly felt I have been wronged (and you seem to be...) I would go above Karen/Agincourt and as someone already mentioned and file a written complaint/request to investigate this further with Mazda. I would pursue it on a regular basis just to see what comes from it, just for shits and giggles.

I am curious as to what would take for someone to get banned from a dealership (does it take three fbombs? maybe 4? or one "I'll see you when you get off, you better have someone walk you to your car tonight")

On a side note, I have not been to Agincourt or met Karen but I have noticed the positive feedback (on the most part) which made me consider taking my car there for my next service and some other concerns. I don't think this tale of misfortune will completely sway me from still doing just that but it does give me something to think about, to not simply hand over the keys without worrying when I am there and maybe a possible conversation topic if I bump into Karen.

[mazdabetty]

+1 to Dan, he is a stand up guy and definitely deserves a beer for his effort on this one.

Yeah... that and maybe a "thanks Dan"... :whoa

[wikdslo]

^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story".

Yup, I would have to agree with that. If she has a valid reason for her actions (referring to not warrantying the axles, etc.) Otherwise, the emotional outburst aside (which was a factor of already stating she would not warranty them) I would make my own judgement that the dealership did not handle this situation correctly and don't want to foot any bill.

[MattC]

I doubt the accused will post a response, since its not just fun and games to them, they have a job and paycheck to worry about. Frankly I wouldn't blame them, I wouldn't post one either.

[mzkaye729]

^ Wow, thats weak! If she believes their shop had no wrong doing, then she should post "her side of the story". We are not all a "judge and jury" out here, but rather some of us would like to help everyone find the answers to questions that are causing the problem.

I am probably the only one on here that thinks Karen does not owe ANYBODY any type of explanation unless they are directly involved with the situation. That would be Kat and Kat alone.

I hope this all gets "resolved" in a timely manner as I can tell how stressful it is for Kat to not be able to find out exactly what is happening and why it happened.

[Karen Lee-McNair]

ok, so i'm sorry, i lied, i am going to post on the "nightmare story",

but only to some relevant points as I think they have been slightly construed in this story...

1. I want to make it VERY CLEAR to everyone here, that I NEVER said that it was because of DAN!! i repeatedly said to Kat, Dan and Adam that I would prefer to leave Dan out of this. It is impossible for me to blame ANYONE as I was not there, and would respectfully not like to continuously bring up someone's name on this forum, as well as who is in the same trade with me, and share professional courtesy

2. Kat was contacted within 30 minutes of the car being in the shop, and 2 hours within drop off, pictures were taken as well, Kat and Adam chose to arrive after 24 hours, and AFTER pics were taken. I also offered these pics to Kat on Friday and notified her that they were time stamped before removing them from my camera.

3. I have NEVER banned anyone from the dealer personally!! I think it is funny that every feels they are "banned", excluding one person here who really is banned. Adam is not a Mazda owner,but has been asked not to return, it's not as though I would not answer him - his questions and statements did not make technical sense. We notified him of this. Both Adam and Kat admitted to him storming into the dealer and behaving a certain way without Kat being aware,she also apologized for his behaviour on Friday. Kat, i never said you were banned either, I'm not quite sure where this is coming from. I did however state I was not comfortable installed the scrap yard parts without your presence, which is why I had asked Dan to stay.

4. In reference to the "i could have taken them off another car" - this was very construed!! I was trying to say, if we had damaged the vehicle, it would
have been very easy for me to cover it up, if that was the way I handled things

5. Just to clarify, I did not have the opportunity to relay options to Kat, we spoke about this further on Friday (and you seemed to have a very different perspective, which is why this post somewhat surprises me)
I was struck down immediately by her male friends, and accused rather than having a chance to discuss. I informed Kat that I was willing to put the parts on at cost and charge no labour - I did not want to make money from her, simply to assist her.

6. axle shafts are 99.9% released when replace shocks/springs.
Yes, anything can be done differently, but it would be a hell of a lot harder and more time consuming to remove springs without releasing the shaft.
The whole install story is very confusing.

Thanks for hearing me out...

Karen

[Iceman_F1]

Not knowing this dealership or any parties involved (Other than Dan), I'll just say one thing...


As for weak in not posting a response. I disagree, it's her/Agicnourt's choice not to get into a way of words, as nothing is likely to get accomplished.

I completely agree with this point. Yes, Foxy had a reason to post her displeasure about the situation. But in no way does Karen/Againcourt have to come on here and explain themselves while the situation is currently happening/not resolved. To me, this is a private dispute between the parties involved and it would be best for them to work it out on their own. Whether that's Foxy escalating the issue to a higher position in Mazda or such or trying to get together with Againcourt to try and work things out, it's really between them.

As stated, there will always be 2 sides to every story. So far, we've heard one side. Would it be nice to hear the other, yes. But it isn't for us to demand anything from anyone in this situation as we are not directly involved in it.

There's been quite a few "horror stories" dealing with the dealerships. Most of the cases I've read seems to be the customer posting pretty fast after the situation without waiting to try and contact the dealership to see if anything can be resolved. IMO, if things can be resolved first, that would go a long way. If not, then a post saying the situation and then what they are next going to plan might be a good way to post. I think most places would rather try to deal with the situation first before things get said that can make things worse. More often than not they can be fix or resolved. When not, trying to keep things as neutral as possible is best. State only the facts without trying to assume anything.

Just my :.02

EDIT: Karen posted above me...so some of this is wrong...but still my opinion at the time

[Karen Lee-McNair]

i'm sorry, i forgot to mention the most important fact...

2 weeks prior - on Sept 16th, I was asked to inspect for a noise heard from the front wheel area on Kat's car
At that time, I had brought Kat into the shop to show her both excessive inner tire wear, and to point out that there seems to be a noise coming from the left front drive shaft. I had ordered the shaft and transmission parts, she had left, and the vehicle returned for repair last week.

A noise from the axle shaft was found on her very first visit to Agincourt Mazda, prior to any of this!

P.S. the F bomb actually doesn't bother me that much, and it won't get your banned...I NEVER swear to my customers, but am really not that offended if someone swears to me, what can get a person banned from a dealer is one of 2 things, agressive physical behaviour or attempted theft/fraud to a dealer

[RedRaptor]

This is a private issue and why the OP decided to "air" her dirty laundry is beyond me. What good can come out from a thread like this other than mud slinging and "she said, she said".

Enough of this drama. There is a lot of hate from members who haven't even dealt with Karen or Agincourt.

[mazdabetty]

This is a private issue and why the OP decided to "air" her dirty laundry is beyond me. What good can come out from a thread like this other than mud slinging and "she said, she said".

Enough of this drama. There is a lot of hate from members who haven't even dealt with Karen or Agincourt.


Yeah seriously....

[SpeedBaby]

I'm glad to see that Karen has voiced her side of the story, considering that so far most of the comments were coming from ppl who haven't witnessed the story unfold yet are very quick to judge and/or defend the parties involved.

I personally was not going to comment on the issue due to my personal lack if technical knowledge that would allow me with a level of certainty to conclude that to cause of the problem was the spring install or the subsequent work performed at the dealership. I was waiting to hear an opinion of an independent certified mechanic prior to jump to any conclusion.

Here are a few objective observations:

1) I have seen the damaged axles and the damage on them is visibly recent.

2) From my experience, if the bolt is not fully tightened, the axle would make a clicking sound. I recall having axles replaced numerous times on my 04 mazda before a TSB came out. Based on that I would speculate that if the bolts were stripped prior to Kat's visit to Agincourt, the clicking would've been noticed then.

3)


4. In reference to the "i could have taken them off another car" - this was very construed!! I was trying to say, if we had damaged the vehicle, it would
have been very easy for me to cover it up, if that was the way I handled things

Personally, the moment i hear this kind of statement from the service manager of a dealership it raises red flags. Not sure why would Karen even say that, but the fact that she did would deter me from taking my car there for any kind of work.

4)

5. Just to clarify, I did not have the opportunity to relay options to Kat, we spoke about this further on Friday (and you seemed to have a very different perspective, which is why this post somewhat surprises me)

I find it difficult to believe that during the 3 times that Kat has visited your dealership, spending significant amount of time there, you did not find the 'opportunity to relay options' to her. I am pretty sure that this is somewhere along the lines of the job description. If you found it challenging for any reason, i'm sure with the aide of other employees it could've been done despite the difference in perspective. This is where the customer service skills usually come in, but then again, historically Agincourt has been failing to demonstrate those, so it would be surprising to expect that the addition of 1 person to the dealership team would change anything about the way things are handled there.

[Karen Lee-McNair]

Hello Speedbaby,

first off, you are very well spoken, this is beside the point, but I always like to read posts by people who are very well spoken or written in this case..

sorry, that was off topic,

you make some very good points:

1. as per my previous post the noise was detected on Kat's vehicle prior to having the transmission repair performed and physically seeing the damage.
I had walked both Kat and her friend into the shop and pointed to where the noise was evident. This once again confirms the issue was there prior to entering Agincourt Mazda's shop

2. I did speak to Kat personally and $$ amounts were not stated, but I had stated numerous times that I was not wanting to turn a profit, instead to assist. I can completely appreciate Kat's point when she states she does not want to pay ANYTHING, therefore she was against that idea and i later spoke to her friend.

I believe as a service provider that there is a cost of doing business! I have in the past lost money to assist in customer concerns, as a dealer I think this is only fair!
I have been able to work some "magic" to accomplish some repairs so that the customer does not take the hit - remember one thing everyone - I TOO AM A CONSUMER, and I do try to give ALL TM3 members that special WOW factor, as they are part of a MAZDA enthusiast group. At the same time, I will not allow my dealership to be put in a place where we are told we MUST do something or else it will be posted as negative feedback on TM3. This is unfair to myself, and all members of TM3.

I am here to assist all TM3 members and ensure they are taken care of, as all mazda owners should be.

[kevcol74]

My biggest concren for Kat is this:
She bought the car new, has 37K on the car, and has only had one modification done to the car anywhere near the problem area. The area worked on was done by a professional thats also a trusted member on this board.
Why on earth should Kat be out of pocket for someone else's screw up? Instead of accusations, why would a solution not have been presented right away?
Also, Kat, I think you may not have had the "right people" with you, but you can't blame yourself there. You'll just know for the future.
Quick question for Karen: Were the pics of the damage taken before the axles were pulled? (ie on the car) If not, they are pretty useless. You needed to document damage done before you proceeded.
I do believe we are missing details here, and cannot make a 100% educated assessment of the whole situation. But it comes down to my first question... Why should Kat be expected to pay for anything out of this?

[SpeedBaby]

Quick question for Karen: Were the pics of the damage taken before the axles were pulled? (ie on the car) If not, they are pretty useless. You needed to document damage done before you proceeded.


technically either way the were not 'useless' - they served for the purpose of submitting a warranty claim which consequently has been denied, potentially flagging Kat's warranty on suspension parts.

Depending on when those pictures were taken indicates how accurate they were portraying the damage PRIOR to Agincourt's work, but at this point it won't matter since mazda canada has already made a judgement on the claim and from my experience they aren't eager to reverse those, regardless of the objectivity.

[Karen Lee-McNair]

Initially stopped repair on work to contact Kat, pics were taken while on the vehicle prior to continuing the repair.

I completely agree with you Kevcol! Kat should not be held responsible for someone else's damage.

The install parts were supplied by Dan, the install was done by my shop.

I did say to Kat on friday, that I would still honour the parts at dealer cost, and no labour. She was very interested in trying to get an answer as to who damaged the vehicle.

I don't blame her, but at the same point, I don't know how she is going to get that answer.

Kat, in trying to be fair in the situation and put a rest to this, you may contact me directly to further review options, but I will not post any options further on this thread. I will try to assist you as best as possible with your current dilemma, but i will also not be"strong held" with threats of negative feedback by certain members. I was under the impression that was not how this forum conducted itself.

[kevcol74]

In the interest of the thread and forum, thanks for voicing your side Karen.
In my mind, there is still the unanswered question of who did it. But, until someone will admit to their mistakes and learn from them, Kat is the only one that really ends up being the victim.
Kudos to Dan for stepping up and providing the axles for Kat. But, it may come off as showing a bit of guilt....
As for "doing Kat a favour" and installing the axles at no charge, thats a BS statement. The axles had to come out anyways, and back in. I used to be a service writer, there is no extra charge for this regardless of resuing the old ones, or installing "new" customer supplied parts. Its like saying "I'm replacing your brake shoes, but I'm also charging you for putting on those new drums you provided." Warranty, thats a different story.
Karen, as far as rep, I think those that have something against Agincourt, already had it, and those that give you a good name, will continue to do so. And the rest, like myself, will probably remain indifferent on it. I likely won't use Agincourt, simply its not convenient for me.
Hopefully people can learn from this thread.... know your car, keep your receipts, and take your time at service! Ask questions, thats the only way you will know. "What exactly did you do/service on my car?"
And if you bring someone in to speak on your behalf, make sure they have patience and are not hot headed!
Good luck Kat, let us know if you ever do figure out who did it!

[Default User]

I don't know anything about anything.
I am, however, paranoid by nature. And would quickly assume that The last person to see the vehicle for what ever reason should have either (a) noticed and advised me of the problem, or (b) is the person that F'd it up

so if between the lowering and the incident at Agincourt, something happened - my blame would be to that person...Scarborough Mazda

My paranoia says that they F'd it up thinking the owner would bring it there for the repair. Something like that is unfortunate but not unheard of.

To the OP - Im sorry that you have to go through all this BS
to the folks at Agincourt - there is a thread on here dedicated to the performance of your facility which cannot be ignored.

Either way - shit happens to the best of us. And sometimes we just have to bight our lip and move on.

Now if the two of you decide to kiss and make-up....can we watch? J/K

[Karen Lee-McNair]

In the interest of the thread and forum, thanks for voicing your side Karen.
In my mind, there is still the unanswered question of who did it. But, until someone will admit to their mistakes and learn from them, Kat is the only one that really ends up being the victim.
Kudos to Dan for stepping up and providing the axles for Kat. But, it may come off as showing a bit of guilt....
As for "doing Kat a favour" and installing the axles at no charge, thats a BS statement. The axles had to come out anyways, and back in. I used to be a service writer, there is no extra charge for this regardless of resuing the old ones, or installing "new" customer supplied parts. Its like saying "I'm replacing your brake shoes, but I'm also charging you for putting on those new drums you provided." Warranty, thats a different story.
Karen, as far as rep, I think those that have something against Agincourt, already had it, and those that give you a good name, will continue to do so. And the rest, like myself, will probably remain indifferent on it. I likely won't use Agincourt, simply its not convenient for me.
Hopefully people can learn from this thread.... know your car, keep your receipts, and take your time at service! Ask questions, thats the only way you will know. "What exactly did you do/service on my car?"
And if you bring someone in to speak on your behalf, make sure they have patience and are not hot headed!
Good luck Kat, let us know if you ever do figure out who did it!

Kevcol,

the reason we referred to loss of labour, is that Kat, Dan and myself were all aware that I was losing a hoist for several hours due to waiting on supplied parts. Parts started going in as instructed to me, then had to come out when I found out that Dan was going to supply the parts, and then re-installed the supplied parts.

I agree, this may all be very confusing, there a quite a lot of details and conversations that took place during these few days, that are not listed here. It is very difficult to really get the full story from a few posts. My point in posting was to just give my side, I did not want to be perceived as the whole "stealership" mentality, I tried to offer what I thought was fair. It is very difficult to speak to a customer, when there are other "reps" involved speaking on their behalf. It turns into way too many cooks in the kitchen.

As posted before, I will continue to assist Kat if she likes, but from our Friday conversation, I received another story and did not realize that she had felt it any ill-will towards the dealer, as she had told me some of her assumptions.

I obviously realized that Kat/Foxy was a popular member on the forum, and posts quite a bit, why would I try to jeopardize my relationship or feedback on this forum (btw, i mentioned this to Kat on friday too)

If I was truly under the impression that she had felt it was due to the dealer, we would have spent more time discussing this or options on Friday.

[BoostieMonster]

Kevcol,

the reason we referred to loss of labour, is that Kat, Dan and myself were all aware that I was losing a hoist for several hours due to waiting on supplied parts. Parts started going in as instructed to me, then had to come out when I found out that Dan was going to supply the parts, and then re-installed the supplied parts.

I agree, this may all be very confusing, there a quite a lot of details and conversations that took place during these few days, that are not listed here. It is very difficult to really get the full story from a few posts. My point in posting was to just give my side, I did not want to be perceived as the whole "stealership" mentality, I tried to offer what I thought was fair. It is very difficult to speak to a customer, when there are other "reps" involved speaking on their behalf. It turns into way too many cooks in the kitchen.

As posted before, I will continue to assist Kat if she likes, but from our Friday conversation, I received another story and did not realize that she had felt it any ill-will towards the dealer, as she had told me some of her assumptions.

I obviously realized that Kat/Foxy was a popular member on the forum, and posts quite a bit, why would I try to jeopardize my relationship or feedback on this forum (btw, i mentioned this to Kat on friday too)

If I was truly under the impression that she had felt it was due to the dealer, we would have spent more time discussing this or options on Friday.

I don't know the situation and it seems nobody except Karen and Kat do. However I think Karen you should just drop it, you have made your point and should just deal with Kat privately from now on. I say this because you keep saying things to defend yourself that are making it harder for people to trust you.

ie.....

I should hope as a Service Manager you would treat a person who has 5 posts on here the same as someone with 5,000. The pre-requisite for service on all Mazda cars are not directly proportionate to the number of posts on this forum.....or at least I pray its not.

Under your statement bolded above it would seem like you're succumbing to the "please the popular person on the forum to get a good review" that you were against in a previous post.

[SpeedBaby]

ok, now to move away from speculations on to the facts.

this is what my axle looks like, installed less than 2 months ago (after the side engine mount fail):

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/axela1/IMG_3644.jpg
^notice the rust layer?

these are the actual pics of Kat's axles:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/axela1/IMG_3647.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/axela1/IMG_3645.jpg
^no rust on the damaged part

Now i might be lacking some logic here, but this leads me to believe that the damage has been caused very recently and the parts haven't been exposed to the elements since. which is only possible if the damage was caused @ the time when the axles were being removed somehow.

[kevcol74]

Thats out of the car. I'd rather see the ones of them on the car, before removal. But I don't expect to see those. Unless Kat posts them, Karen has no obligation to do so.
I still have my questions about what the other Mazda dealer did when they had it....

[SpeedBaby]

Those pics were taken just now by Kat, the axles are in the trunk of her car, where they have been sitting since they were put in there.

[stormin84]

Thats out of the car. I'd rather see the ones of them on the car, before removal. But I don't expect to see those. Unless Kat posts them, Karen has no obligation to do so.
I still have my questions about what the other Mazda dealer did when they had it....


thats what i've been saying let's see the pics when they were on the car,

[FoXy]

I have never seen the pictures of the axles that Karen took, so I dont know if the axles were in or out of the car.

I agree that I have no idea what happened at Scarboro, but still i'll never know that. But 9 hours is a long time for a car to be unattended at a dealership.

As for the "noise" when I first brought it to Karen? The only noise I ever heard was road noise cus my tires are shyt and I need an alignment so my tires are worn on the inside. What Karen showed me was something unrelated to damage to to the end of the axle.

[MPS]

that would mean Karen needs to post them

[stormin84]

I have never seen the pictures of the axles that Karen took, so I dont know if the axles were in or out of the car.

I agree that I have no idea what happened at Scarboro, but still i'll never know that. But 9 hours is a long time for a car to be unattended at a dealership.

As for the "noise" when I first brought it to Karen? The only noise I ever heard was road noise cus my tires are shyt and I need an alignment so my tires are worn on the inside. What Karen showed me was something unrelated to damage to to the end of the axle.

demand to see the pics of your car...

[-cj-]

I have to admit, I was just watching the thread until I noticed how clean the axles are. My brand new 08.5 had rust on the end of the axles within 1 month of having the car on the road. They should not be that clean...

I wonder what Karen's pics look like?

[kevcol74]

9 hours at Scarboro?? Thats pleanty of time for them to f-up your axles, and put it back together. What bothers me the most is that, if Agincourt did not do it, you went sent on your way with these axles on your car. Someone else had complete disregard for your life Kat. Whatever mechanic is responsible for "sending you on your way" should lose their license, no question. If it was an apprentice, well, an apprentice is supposed to have a mechanic watching over them... and they are responsible.
Its absolutely mind boggling to me, and actually has me pretty pissed off really.
Kat, you have every right to be mad as hell about the whole situation. It would just be nice to know exactly who to direct that anger towards!!

[Flagrum_3]

ok, now to move away from speculations on to the facts.

this is what my axle looks like, installed less than 2 months ago (after the side engine mount fail):

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/axela1/IMG_3644.jpg
^notice the rust layer?

these are the actual pics of Kat's axles:

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/axela1/IMG_3647.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e88/axela1/IMG_3645.jpg
^no rust on the damaged part

Now i might be lacking some logic here, but this leads me to believe that the damage has been caused very recently and the parts haven't been exposed to the elements since. which is only possible if the damage was caused @ the time when the axles were being removed somehow.

These pictures are far from fact, as the surface rust in the first pic is just superficial it can be cleaned off easily and can stay clean for months after.I know that for a FACT.So time wise we could be looking back months.

Anyways, it's all water under the bridge now, right? I stated several posts before nothing will come of all this as the culprits will never be found...I suggest this thread be locked and as mentioned before by Default User; maybe kat and Karen can kiss and make-up and allow us to watch....j/k :)


_3

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

that would mean Karen needs to post them

Uh, no, it doesn't.
It means Karen has to show Kat if she requests to see them, which frankly, I'm surprised Kat hasn't requested yet. Karen does not need to post them up on here for any of us. We all have zero relevance to this situation.

It would also be real nice if those not actually directly involved in this situation would kindly shut the hell up, stop hanging on the possible meaning of every sentence in a response, quit all the speculation based on incomplete details/evidence, and most of all, stop using this situation to further their own anti-dealer agenda's.

Let Kat and Karen deal with each other from here.

[kevcol74]

^ look at your rotors on your car if it sits for 2 days after it rains.... guess what, rust is starting! Superficial, yes, but none-the-less, its turned orange from the metal oxidizing. Exposed metal like that pictured would show slight rust in only days, not months.

[kevcol74]

Uh, no, it doesn't.
It means Karen has to show Kat if she requests to see them, which frankly, I'm surprised Kat hasn't requested yet. Karen does not need to post them up on here for any of us. We all have zero relevance to this situation.

It would also be real nice if those not actually directly involved in this situation would kindly shut the hell up, stop hanging on the possible meaning of every sentence in a response, quit all the speculation based on incomplete details/evidence, and most of all, stop using this situation to further their own anti-dealer agenda's.

Let Kat and Karen deal with each other from here.

Some of us are trying to help Kat find some answers, and help her get to the bottom of this. If you don't want to help a fellow member with a very disturbing and scary situation, feel free NOT to post.

[Flagrum_3]

^ look at your rotors on your car if it sits for 2 days after it rains.... guess what, rust is starting! Superficial, yes, but none-the-less, its turned orange from the metal oxidizing. Exposed metal like that pictured would show slight rust in only days, not months.

Not true, rotors maybe but not the spindles.As I said I know for a fact as I've had work performed on the same area, spindles were cleaned and have stayed clean for months.There's the possiblity that grease or oil placed on them inadvertently would keep them from rusting....right?


_3

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Some of us are trying to help Kat find some answers, and help her get to the bottom of this. If you don't want to help a fellow member with a very disturbing and scary situation, feel free NOT to post.

I actually wasn't referring to your posts Kev. I know you are actually impartial here and trying to help based on your experience. Others, not so much...

All this said, how is any of this going to help Kat find any answers? We have zero conclusions to date after a whole whack load of posts and more and more speculation.

All of this is actually detrimental at this point. It achieves nothing...
Karen came on and explained her side and so has Kat. Now the two of them need to discuss further. This is particularly true since Kat hasn't seen the photos taken while the Axel's were still on her car. She should see them and discuss further with Karen.

[kevcol74]

Not true, rotors maybe but not the spindles.As I said I know for a fact as I've had worked performed on the same area, spindles were cleaned and have stayed clean for months.There's the possiblity that grease or oil placed on them inadvertently would keep them from rusting....right?


_3

Yes, if grease or oil got on them, the wouldn't show rust. I'm not sure what the timeline between Agincourt and Scarboro Mazda was, and if there was any time for rust to form. The spindles wouldn't show signs, only the end threads area of the shaft, like the pic in the hub. Thats the part exposed, thats where rust MAY form. And by the grinding that was done, there is now way all of that area was covered in oil.

[kevcol74]

I actually wasn't referring to your posts Kev. I know you are actually impartial here and trying to help based on your experience. Others, not so much...

All this said, how is any of this going to help Kat find any answers? We have zero conclusions to date after a whole whack load of posts and more and more speculation.

All of this is actually detrimental at this point. It achieves nothing...
Karen came on and explained her side and so has Kat. Now the two of them need to discuss further. This is particularly true since Kat hasn't seen the photos taken while the Axel's were still on her car. She should see them and discuss further with Karen.

I agree that Kat needs to see the pics, but she may want some experienced help to know what to look for. Be it posts or PM, just ask those of us that you trust to help you Kat. (ie Dan, TheMAN, myself, or anyone you know and trust)
Some of us that aren't here to judge, but rather to help.

[stevenma188]

I really don't want to get involved in this personal battle, but I just have a comment about the rust on the axle part.

Isn't it possible that the lack of rust on the axle is due to the fact that it has been ground down (whether that be by wear due to the damage or whatever). The brakes are a perfect example. Although there is surface rust, it doesn't take very much to make the rust go away.

[-cj-]

Not true, rotors maybe but not the spindles.As I said I know for a fact as I've had work performed on the same area, spindles were cleaned and have stayed clean for months.

Brand new car and it rusted within a month. (The car sat inside the dealership until the time I bought it, had 37 km on the odo... So it definitely happened after I picked it up) Keep in mind her axles aren't coated in anything either, since someone ground them... just bare exposed metal. They should have rusted very fast, especially with all the rain we've been getting.

[Flagrum_3]

Brand new car and it rusted within a month. (The car sat inside the dealership until the time I bought it, had 37 km on the odo... So it definitely happened after I picked it up) Keep in mind her axles aren't coated in anything either, since someone ground them... just bare exposed metal. They should have rusted very fast, especially with all the rain we've been getting.

Not if someone else had serviced them.A dab of white lithium grease or penetrating oil will keep them rust free, again my spindles 'ends' have stayed rust free for 2 months now.This would be cleaned off when removing the item.But I'll agree in the pics it looks pretty obvious they have been ground.


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[sauga_kid]

Mods lock this up, each party has said their part and as many others have mentioned before, this isn't going to get resolved here and should be hashed out between Kat and Karen.

[Flagrum_3]

mods lock this up, each party has said their part and as many others have mentioned before, this isn't going to get resolved here and should be hashed out between kat and karen.

+ 1


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[cwp_sedan]

+1. If it does get resolved (more than it already is :S) then update it.

[FoXy]

Last post.

Today I took the car to have a second opinion. I arranged with Ami to meet me at Street Performance to speak with Jimmy and show him the axles.

Based on the facts and showing them to him he assures me this:

1) This damage was done recently

2) Had this damage been done before, (and he looked at them VERY closely) there is NO WAY that I would not have known that the axles were effed. I would have heard without a doubt a clicking noise, if not clunking sounds while going around corners. And since I have heard NO abnormal noises proves to me that this was done by someone at Agincourt, and yes, he reassured me of that.

3) I took my car to car to Scarboro more than 2 months ago and Dan did the springs like 4 months ago so since then I have had no problems what so ever.

From this point forward I will be dealing with Karen about this issue now that I have what I need. I will be asking her to see the pictures. Also I will post any updates of how this will go from now on. I just want new axles in the car so that my warrenty is untouched and as if this never happened.

Thank you kindly for all ur input.

Katherine

[kevcol74]

Nice!! Smart move Kat! The second opinion form a professional is all you need, even if you have to go as far as taking them to court.
Make sure you get what you deserve, regardless of how "great" Agincourt's rep is. People screw up, we are only human. Too bad some just won't admit it.
GL Kat!

[FLIPDADY]

That's quite enough boys/girls, this thread is going to the shitter real quick. No more personal attacks or cards are getting handed. This thread will be updated if and when things get resolved.

:lock