HVAC Ducts

[-cj-]

Anyone know anything about duct work? Im doing some work in the basement that involves relocating the furnace. I was quoted a crazy rate to redesign pretty much the entire basement duct system. I'm wondering if anyone knows anyone who does this and can give me a quote. Trying to see if my initial quote is crazy or what's expected...

[mazda lover]

Anyone know anything about duct work? Im doing some work in the basement that involves relocating the furnace. I was quoted a crazy rate to redesign pretty much the entire basement duct system. I'm wondering if anyone knows anyone who does this and can give me a quote. Trying to see if my initial quote is crazy or what's expected...

How much was the quote? why do you want to move the furnace?
Moving it would be like a new installation, cold air return moved, wiring for power and thermostat, gas pipe reworked, new duck work so probably the quote would be high...

[PCLoadLetter]

I would also like to know more about this. My parents are slowly finishing the basement and need to move a few ducts.

[-cj-]

That's why we're moving ours... We're starting to finish the basement and the furnace and waterheater are occupying prime real-estate. We're essentially moving it from one side of the staircase, over to the otherside where the laundry room is. As a result, ALL of the basement ducts are being remade... I got the contractor down to $3800... Some dude wanted $5000-5200 and others wouldn't even touch the job. Apparently sheet metal makes up a significant portion of the cost. (Funny thing is, even though it's expensive, apparently the current ducts have no salvage value??)

Oh, and that cost doesn't count actual relocation charges... That's just for the duct design, fabrication and installation. The sucky thing is, there's absolutely no gratification with this until we start actually finishing the basement.. (In which case we gain about 10x10 feet of usable space)

[Noisy Crow]

Apparently sheet metal makes up a significant portion of the cost. (Funny thing is, even though it's expensive, apparently the current ducts have no salvage value??)

Much like used carpet... once cut to fit your room its value drops significantly, as what are the odds of someone else having the exact same shaped room? And how could you be sure anyway... so every install is custom fit to the space, and used materials are worth the effort to mess with them.

[-cj-]

That's one angle... I just figured if sheet metal is so expensive, you should be able to sell it to a scrap yard. My buddy is an electrician and he told me he cleared out his garage of old copper cable and had like over a grand returned to him...

I know that sheet metal doesn't equal copper (thank God, don't think I could afford it lol), but I'm surprised it's worth next to nothing.

[seelsy]

My family owns an HVAC Company, and duct is basically worthless onces installed simply because wrecking yards pay squat for scrap metal, since thats what it is. And moslty what youre paying for in duct work cost is the labour when installing, yes the duct is expensive, but so is the installation since you need a licensed duct design guy to properply measure heat loss and gain and to make a design workable with the house plan. Its weird though that they couldnt use existing duct lines and just run new returns for the new positioning of the furnace.

[SpeedBaby]

on a somewhat related note, has anyone ever have any experience with the necessity to install a 'chimney liner'?
how complicated is it? what kind of materials are normally used and how much does it cost? we need to replace our water heater and i was told that by some new regulations they can't do it unless there's a liner installed. I was given a quote, but i'd like to shop around before i agree to it...

[mazdaskit]

on a somewhat related note, has anyone ever have any experience with the necessity to install a 'chimney liner'?
how complicated is it? what kind of materials are normally used and how much does it cost? we need to replace our water heater and i was told that by some new regulations they can't do it unless there's a liner installed. I was given a quote, but i'd like to shop around before i agree to it...

im a gas tech& YES it is by code a liner is needed for the proper BTU's of the flues going into the chimney and a liner is easy if your chimney is OK lol and the liner goes down easily we install it (the company im with $500 5" 6" $600 etc installed. but by laws & codes we cant install anything if its not in code conditions. If you need any other info just pm me:)

[seelsy]

in certain situations you can install a direct vent water heater if youre replacing your water heater with gas which vents straight out the wall instead of dropping a liner, or if replacing electric to electric you can install a power vented waterheater which also vents straight out the wall but uses an electric blower to vent combustion gases outside where was direct vents use outside air for combustion then the chimney is just capped off.

[SpeedBaby]

in certain situations you can install a direct vent water heater if youre replacing your water heater with gas which vents straight out the wall instead of dropping a liner, or if replacing electric to electric you can install a power vented waterheater which also vents straight out the wall but uses an electric blower to vent combustion gases outside where was direct vents use outside air for combustion then the chimney is just capped off.

yeah, turns out there's more regulations there too - something about having to have at least 3 feet between the in/out lines going through the wall :loco
and between the AC, furnace vent, sprinklers line, gas line and the chimney itself i got no more room to put it :bang

[seelsy]

yeah, turns out there's more regulations there too - something about having to have at least 3 feet between the in/out lines going through the wall :loco
and between the AC, furnace vent, sprinklers line, gas line and the chimney itself i got no more room to put it :bang

well yes you cant have the intake close to the vent due to gases causes by combustion, and you need space from doors and windows for the same reason, have you had a new company come in to quote on a direct vented water heater?

[kevcol74]

The reason your furnace is placed where it is, its the most efficient place to have it. If you start to move it, increasing the length of the duct runs, then you are changing the entire flow rates for the house. Is your furnace under capacity, so you can do this? Or are you risking air flow to the furthest reaches of your house being compromised? (I used to design HVAC, haven't for years now though)
Trust me, I feel your pain. When I finish my basement, I will have a crappy low bulkhead due to the main trunk of the furnace, and I could gain more space if the furnace was in a different place. But the builder would not deviate from the original plans, no matter how much I insisted. If we weren't at the end of the phases in the neighbourhood, I may have had more pull. But since people were lined up for our lot, I didn't have much I could do. Relocateing my main probably wouldn't be too bad, as it would just have to go from one side of my main steel I-beam to the other, and the branches flipped. The main off the furnace would have to change though. But for the 10x6 space I might gain, just not worth the cost for me.

And for the water heater, get a tankless, you'll save even more real estate, they are more efficient and you won't run out of hot water! You can get gas or electric on those. I know our Utlilties is offereing incentives to switch over!

[-cj-]

I ended up getting the entire system redesigned. Furnace was relocated into my laundry room and all the main trunk was redesigned with a bunch of new runs to each runner. It wasn't cheap but I gained a GREAT deal of space in the basement. I had to play around with some diffusers in the basement, but after a few weeks of trial and error we have even heat throughout the house again. We even stayed with the water heater we already had... It was new and high efficient and we had this nice nook behind the furnace that it fit nicely in to... Now the whole laundry room is contained in one section of the basement, leaving the whole basement wide open... Definitely worth it!

Speedbaby: Not sure if you already took care of it or not, but they can usually exit the property almost anywhere. They just need to run a sloped PVC tube around your basement... Which can be a pain since your basement is already finished. In my previous house and my current house the basement wasn't finished when I replaced my heater, so it wasn't a big deal... Alternatively you can look at a tank less water heater and put it close to your exit point. The problem then becomes getting the natural gas hookup run to the new location and tying into the existing water pipes in your house. They may need to upgrade your gas line though, since these tankless systems run higher BTUs... (But that might be as simple as just upgrading the line off the meter, not the line before the meter...) --- I'm just stringing together bits and pieces I learned during my upgrade experience. I'm in no way an expert........ and I may be mixing up facts.

[mohsinkhalid]

as long as you are balancing the load to the remainer of the structure. You can always restrict the air movement from the ducts by the louvers in front.