Scaaaaaaryyy!

[mazdilla]

This is not good.

When it rains and the car sits for a while (like at work), the first time I go to use the brakes it feels like they are not there or working at 50% braking.

It seems that I have to heat the rotors up and 'scrape' them clean of water with the pads before they work properly. This usually only takes one braking sequence, but I don't think that should be the case at all.

The rotors are ordinary flat stock and I have no idea what the pads are.

Dry weather is all good.

What to do?? Looks like i need cross-drilled or slotted rotors and some decent pads.


I can do the work. Where is the best deal?

[slam525i]

It's "normal".

If it worries you a lot, per-clean the brakes after the car has been sitting by dragging the car against them a little. It can also happen on the highway in which case you can left-foot brake a little to clean them off.

[Burner]

Cross drilled rotors wont change a thing. Performance pads will only make the problem worse since they need a certain amount of heat in them to work properly.

Just think of your brakes the same as you do your engine. You don't start it up cold and floor it out of the driveway. You warm it up a bit first. Same with the brakes. Be easy on them for the first couple of stops and they'll clean off and work fine.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Cross drilled rotors wont change a thing. Performance pads will only make the problem worse since they need a certain amount of heat in them to work properly.

Just think of your brakes the same as you do your engine. You don't start it up cold and floor it out of the driveway. You warm it up a bit first. Same with the brakes. Be easy on them for the first couple of stops and they'll clean off and work fine.

Regular non-cast Cross-drilled rotors will certainly change things. They will decrease your braking performance on a regular 3. :)

[Burner]

Heh, right you are!

[mazdilla]

It's "normal".

If it worries you a lot, per-clean the brakes after the car has been sitting by dragging the car against them a little. It can also happen on the highway in which case you can left-foot brake a little to clean them off.

This is not 'normal'. This is downright dangerous and unacceptable.

I have never, ever had to 'pre-clean' brakes on any vehicle I have owned. And I've owned well over 50 vehicles that have had either drum/drum, disc/drum, and disc/disc configurations from front to rear.

There is obviously a pad/rotor isuue going on here. Its not right.

The crossdrilled rotor has been covered. What about slotted rotors?

[MAZDA Kitten]

wow you've owned over 50 cars?

[Noisy Crow]

This is not 'normal'. This is downright dangerous and unacceptable.

A few minutes with Google will show you that it is normal, for many vehicles. Wet rotors get a light film of oxide on them that needs to be scrubbed off before they can work 100%.

Keep in mind: on cars with steelies and hubcaps the rotors are offered some protection from rain, while the alloy wheels we tend to use leave the rotors more exposed to it.

[kramr]

Funny, I notice mine grab a little more when wet with dew or rain. Either or, rotors are not different than anything else that gets wet, something gets wet and it reduces friction on until that surface is dry. When a road gets wet it gets a little slick. When a wrench gets wet it is harder to hold on to. I can go on and on but brakes are really no different. I haven't a clue why mine seem to grab on the first application but they do.
I've driven many types and sizes of vehicles and it seems standard, when the brakes get wet it is harder to stop, from drum/drum city buses to disc/drum tractor trailers to disc/disc cars.

[mazdilla]

wow you've owned over 50 cars?

Yup. I'm an old fart. Wrecked a few; have the scars to prove it.

50 is a conservative estimate for those that were actually plated and driven. There are more that were merely assembled from scrap parts and then pounded into submission driving across/through fields, on bush roads, and other places to sinister to mention.

But this Mazda is simply too much fun. There should be a freakin' law somewhere ... NO! There should be a song...


*** fade to black ...

And now back to the original thread...

One of you mentioned that it is normal for 'some' cars to have this brake fade 'feature' with exposed rotors because of the alloy wheels. I am inferring that you mean that there is not a complete shield in front of the rotor.
Hmmmmmmmmmm...

Then tell me why my '70 Cougar xR7 351 Cobra Jet / 4 spd, that has vintage 5spoke Magnum wheels on it (and an 8 track) with a grand total of 26,546 original miles, has never, ever, experienced any such adverse braking response, even though it still has its original rotors and pads?!!! Inagoddadavida, baby! My '85 Olds 442 (4 track stereo cassette) that has 42,000 km and SSII wheels, has never experienced that either. Again - original parts.

I completely disagree with the 'sheltered/protected theory', simply because the rotor is exposed at all times, no matter what wheel you have in front of it. We're not talking about sitting under an umbrella at the beach or in a rainstorm. The rotor/pad combo is not 'sheltered' from the elements by the wheel. If you think I'm wrong, think about an umbrella in a hurricane ... it provides no shelter whatsoever.

I am assuming that I have either crappy pads, crappy mild steel china rotors, or a combination of crappy parts. I need a fix.

Some feedback from the slotted rotor crowd perhaps?

[aris]

wow you've owned over 50 cars?

he is older..



my car does it when it rains...once i drive a bit it's fine after

[ShortBus]

i find our mazda 3's brakes way too touchy when cold, a simple light tap would feel like i slammed on the brakes.

it's been 6 years and mazda still hasn't gotten the brakes right on the 3.

[mazdilla]

he is older...

LOL... Gee, thanks Aris!

Older than what?

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

I am assuming that I have either crappy pads, crappy mild steel china rotors, or a combination of crappy parts. I need a fix.

Some feedback from the slotted rotor crowd perhaps?
Nope, just crappy pedal feedback on those old cars... The Mazda3's are very sensitive with pedal feedback, as they are with steering and suspension input. Part of the reason that makes them so much fun to drive. All cars with open brake systems, have less brake power/feel/ability in wet weather, but not all cars are created equal in the amount of feedback and pedal 'feel' you will receive back...


LOL... Gee, thanks Aris!

Older than what?

Older than Aristotle, perhaps?? Just to stick with the theme... :)

[mazdilla]

Quote from Zoom Zoom: Nope, just crappy pedal feedback on those old cars...

Holy-kashmolly!!!!! Do you mean to say that a 2006 model is an old car?

This is not an old car with old technology.

I agree, it handles like a scalded cat (ever try and hold onto a p*ssed-off cat?). It corners on a dime, but you have to drive it through the corner. It accelerates all over the place, as it's always a mystery as to which way it will decide to launch, sorta like cheap dime-store fireworks, but a helluva lot more fun as you're along for the ride.

This can all be cured through the addition of an ETD, strut bar, lowering springs. etc.

The brakes are the issue here. Has anyone here installed slotted rotors... and did they make a difference? or... Who here has a pad/rotor comb0 (mfg. specific please) that does not experience brake fade?

[aris]

LOL... Gee, thanks Aris!


lol...

Don't worrie i'm not getting any younger..lol

[mazdilla]

lol...

Don't worrie i'm not getting any younger..lol

I wouldn't 'worry' ...

I intend to live forever... so far, so good!

No one has made a liar outta me yet.

[Chester_Lampwick]

Did you just recently but this car? Is it possible that the pads were replaced with a set with extremely hard compound? Something advertised as long life, or lifetime warranty? If so, I think this would suck in the rain before the brakes got any heat in them.

[mazdilla]

Yeah, I just bought the car two months ago. I have no idea of the make or brand of the brake components. The front calipers/rotors/pads looked new when I bought the car.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Quote from Zoom Zoom: Nope, just crappy pedal feedback on those old cars...

Holy-kashmolly!!!!! Do you mean to say that a 2006 model is an old car?

This is not an old car with old technology.

I agree, it handles like a scalded cat (ever try and hold onto a p*ssed-off cat?). It corners on a dime, but you have to drive it through the corner. It accelerates all over the place, as it's always a mystery as to which way it will decide to launch, sorta like cheap dime-store fireworks, but a helluva lot more fun as you're along for the ride.

This can all be cured through the addition of an ETD, strut bar, lowering springs. etc.

The brakes are the issue here. Has anyone here installed slotted rotors... and did they make a difference? or... Who here has a pad/rotor comb0 (mfg. specific please) that does not experience brake fade?

Sorry, I wasn't very clear as I did not quote your entire post. I was referring to your '70 Cougar and '84 Olds, regarding pedal feel and feedback, when compared against your 3. What I'm saying is that you will feel brake fade and other things in your Mazda3, that you might not normally have noticed in an older car which tended to be a lot more numb when it comes to pedal and steering feedback.

It is a good thing that you can feel the difference in braking when the car is wet. Feedback is a good thing and all cars have reduced braking when the components are not up to temp and when they are wet. However, if you really feel there is a safety issue and the brakes are not performing as they should, then I recommend you get them looked at for peace of mind. Since you bought the car used, who knows what kind of brakes you actually have installed on it...

As for OEM comparison against after-market brakes in performance terms, definitely stay away from cheaper cross-drilled rotors. OEM blank rotors are more than good enough, but you can move up to slotted rotors if you want, but they're like twice the price and really not necessary for normal driving. Hawk HPS pads however, are an improvement over the stock OEM pads in terms of stopping performance and reduced brake dust, but they tend not to last as long. Braided brake lines can also be of benefit over the stock rubber ones, but are probably overkill for street use and can be expensive also.

[sube]

Sorry, I wasn't very clear as I did not quote your entire post. I was referring to your '70 Cougar and '84 Olds, regarding pedal feel and feedback, when compared against your 3. What I'm saying is that you will feel brake fade and other things in your Mazda3, that you might not normally have noticed in an older car which tended to be a lot more numb when it comes to pedal and steering feedback.

It is a good thing that you can feel the difference in braking when the car is wet. Feedback is a good thing and all cars have reduced braking when the components are not up to temp and when they are wet. However, if you really feel there is a safety issue and the brakes are not performing as they should, then I recommend you get them looked at for peace of mind. Since you bought the car used, who knows what kind of brakes you actually have installed on it...

As for OEM comparison against after-market brakes in performance terms, definitely stay away from cheaper cross-drilled rotors. OEM blank rotors are more than good enough, but you can move up to slotted rotors if you want, but they're like twice the price and really not necessary for normal driving. Hawk HPS pads however, are an improvement over the stock OEM pads in terms of stopping performance and reduced brake dust, but they tend not to last as long. Braided brake lines can also be of benefit over the stock rubber ones, but are probably overkill for street use and can be expensive also.

This is not my experience with Hawk pads, for a start they were the worst dusting pads I ever had on a car and I did not find them any better than OEM pads, if anything slightly worse as it took longer to warm the pads up for full braking.

Pat.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

This is not my experience with Hawk pads, for a start they were the worst dusting pads I ever had on a car and I did not find them any better than OEM pads, if anything slightly worse as it took longer to warm the pads up for full braking.

Pat.

HPS Pads? Or different Hawk pads? Which ones?

[sube]

HPS Pads? Or different Hawk pads? Which ones?

Hawk HPS, first set ruined a set of rotors as the pad material transferred to the Rotor, I am a slow learner and tried a second set, lesson learned no more hawk pads. KVR ceramic for me. Both of these sets of pads were on My Subaru Legacy GT.

Pat.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Hawk HPS, first set ruined a set of rotors as the pad material transferred to the Rotor, I am a slow learner and tried a second set, lesson learned no more hawk pads. KVR ceramic for me. Both of these sets of pads were on My Subaru Legacy GT.

Pat.

Fair enough. Can't speak to your experience and I don't know much about the Legacy and its braking system. However, on the 3's, a lot of people run Hawk HPS pads and have a definable increase in stopping power and reduced brake dust over the OEM pads.

[bubba1983]

if your that concerned, go to a licensed tech, and have it out with him, rather than come on here and speculate with internet know it alls!

if you don't believe the licensed tech, go to the govt, and banter to them about the apprenticeship program, about having "ill experienced techs"

if that doesn't make you happy....buy another car!

[towelsnap]

he is older..



my car does it when it rains...once i drive a bit it's fine after



lol yup same for me... for both comments :chuckle jk , could be all that sand from the beach (Picton) lol jk

[mazdilla]

if your that concerned, go to a licensed tech, and have it out with him, rather than come on here and speculate with internet know it alls!

if you don't believe the licensed tech, go to the govt, and banter to them about the apprenticeship program, about having "ill experienced techs"

if that doesn't make you happy....buy another car!

Who's the licensed tech?

Why would I want to buy another car? This is a brake issue. I do not believe that a new Mazda coming off the lot would experience this 'engineering' deficiency. I was merely asking for info on a good pad/rotor combo that would eliminate this problem.



lol yup same for me... for both comments :chuckle jk , could be all that sand from the beach (Picton) lol jk

LOL - At least the sand would make them grind, if anything!

[Flagrum_3]

Who's the licensed tech?

Why would I want to buy another car? This is a brake issue. I do not believe that a new Mazda coming off the lot would experience this 'engineering' deficiency. I was merely asking for info on a good pad/rotor combo that would eliminate this problem.




LOL - At least the sand would make them grind, if anything!


I had the same question when I ran the oem brakes, it just seemed odd as I never experienced the problem with any of my cars and it had nothing to do with 'feedback'...there is simply very little brake force at first!!...As I now switched my rotors and pads to aftermarket alot of the problems have dissappeared but I still experience the lack of braking force in damp and damp/cold temps (at all times), which I remedy by riding the brakes. Also using several applications when I first start travelling.(To warm them up)....I just wonder if it may have anything to do with the BFD system in our cars?


_3

[McGuyver_3]

I am currently on my second mazda 3 and have not ever had any issues with the brakes. If you are concerned i would suggest getting a proper brake bleed done. The car is 3 years old who knows when the last brake bleed took place. It is possible that there is extensive moisture in the lines or the previous owner did a diy flush and managed to get air in the lines. I speak from experience. The moral of that is dont use a pressure bleeder after having a brake line off do it manually. As for rotors and pads the front brakes outlast the rears by almost 3 times. It is the way the brakes have been setup on these cars i sure hope the 10s are a little better balanced. The cross drilled rotors had them of course they were magnums with wagner pads and i didnt notice a difference. I installed braided brake lines in my previous 3 and that made a relatively large difference

[mazdathree]

I have experienced the same issue with my brakes. They take a little longer to engage in wet weather. This is after I had my stock pads replaced with the hawk hps. With the stock pads when they were new, were very touchy in wet weather.