Is 30 seconds of idling in winter enough?

[sip]

Natural Resources Canada recommends a maximum of 30 seconds of idling in winter. Is 30 seconds enough to get fluids moving when temperature drops to say -25C?

[Donutz]

No, probably not. However, if you search you will find a number of threads about this topic. There is some really good info on the forum about viscosity, oil pressure, and what people recommend for starting your car in the winter.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Yes, 30 seconds is enough. If super cold, maybe idle for a minute if it makes you feel better.

Fluids will start moving and warming much better once the car is in actual motion. The key is not to rev the engine very high until it is fully warmed up. You would be surprised at the length of time it takes, even in hot weather, to have the oil pressure start running in optimal ranges. I have an oil pressure gauge in my MS3 and I don't go into full boost until the oil pressure is in the optimum range.

In any case, warm it up for 30 seconds to a minute, drive away slowly and granny shift the car if you have a 5spd. If an auto, don't be agressive with throttle input. Try not to get the revs above 3K until the car is fully warmed up.

P.S.- and this is also where a really good synthetic oil will help your vehicle. An oil like the 0W-30 German Castrol is ideal for the Mazda3 in extreme winter weather, because of increased pumpability in cold starts.

[sip]

Thanks.

[Default User]

I remember somebody saying you should do a warm idle for as long as it would take to roll down your window and back up again.....I guess that's about 30 sexonds

[aris]

Me personaly i would let mine warm up a bit more...i usaly leave mine for about 5 mins or so

[dentinger]

1) start car
2a) scrap ice/frost off car
OR
2b) put defroster on max, come back a few minutes later.
3) drive away.

[cwp_sedan]

Me personaly i would let mine warm up a bit more...i usaly leave mine for about 5 mins or so

+1. I'm not quite this long usually but if it's REALLY cold I give it a good 3-5 depending on the temp. If it's just around 0 degrees (give or take a few) then about a minute is usually more than sufficient.

[Nextmod]

Usually 30-60 seconds is enough for all the newer cars

[crono06]

Stupid 2010 doesn't even have an engine temp gauge =[

[mazda lover]

Me personaly i would let mine warm up a bit more...i usaly leave mine for about 5 mins or so

5 minutes, so you are the cause of global warmimg...
you are hurting your engine..

[blankets3]

ya, u only need like 30 seconds...

[aris]

5 minutes, so you are the cause of global warmimg...
you are hurting your engine..

Running my car for 5 mins will not hurt my engine..and don't even bother trying to argue with me about it..my bro is a diesel mechanic..and yes i guess i am the casue of global warming

[DumpInfo]

Running my car for 5 mins will not hurt my engine..and don't even bother trying to argue with me about it..my bro is a diesel mechanic..and yes i guess i am the casue of global warming

Don't feel bad dude, I warm my car up to 15 minutes in the cold (-20c+) weather...does it bother me? Nope, I just like the fact of a sitting in a comfy warm car. :)

[aris]

Don't feel bad dude, I warm my car up to 15 minutes in the cold (-20c+) weather...does it bother me? Nope, I just like the fact of a sitting in a comfy warm car. :)

+1..haha

[Flagrum_3]

Don't feel bad dude, I warm my car up to 15 minutes in the cold (-20c+) weather...does it bother me? Nope, I just like the fact of a sitting in a comfy warm car. :)

Why don't you just go buy a heated seat cover, it'll save you tons of fuel and they have 7 massage levels too :chuckle

Actually I'll probably be buying one today as they have the Obusform on sale at Crappy tire (reg $99.95 now $59.95) :)



_3

[DumpInfo]

Why don't you just go buy a heated seat cover, it'll save you tons of fuel and they have 7 massage levels too :chuckle

Actually I'll probably be buying one today as they have the Obusform on sale at Crappy tire (reg $99.95 now $59.95) :)

_3

Really? Hmm, my gf was telling me about that. I might just have to go ahead and do it. I just don't want to fall asleep at the wheel cause I'm enjoying it too much!

[blankets3]

Really? Hmm, my gf was telling me about that. I might just have to go ahead and do it. I just don't want to fall asleep at the wheel cause I'm enjoying it too much!

id be to embarrassed to have those in my car :\

[Flagrum_3]

Really? Hmm, my gf was telling me about that. I might just have to go ahead and do it. I just don't want to fall asleep at the wheel cause I'm enjoying it too much!

Haha never thought of that :) But apparently you can control whether massage is on/off, heat on/off and the lumbar/back/shoulders all controlled by remote lol.

Did I sell you yet?




Blankets3...Why would you be embarrassed?



_3

[Fuman]

why not just warm the car until your revs drop past your preference?
for me its 1500 rpm.
"30 seconds" in winter is very subjective, since winter encompasses a large temperature range.

[CFX]

why not just warm the car until your revs drop past your preference?

+1.

[Hives]

I let it run for 1-3 min usually. It depends if I am in a hurry or not.

[mazda lover]

Why don't you just go buy a heated seat cover, it'll save you tons of fuel and they have 7 massage levels too :chuckle

Actually I'll probably be buying one today as they have the Obusform on sale at Crappy tire (reg $99.95 now $59.95) :)



_3

watch they don't blow a fuse, if you plug into the cigarette lighter it just might as the fuse might not be strong enough?

[mazda lover]

Running my car for 5 mins will not hurt my engine..and don't even bother trying to argue with me about it..my bro is a diesel mechanic..and yes i guess i am the casue of global warming

only having a little fun, don't take everything so seriously, argue, why would I, but if I did argue with you whats the big deal about your bro being a diesel mechanic?

[sip]

I guess diesel engines take longer to warm-up.

[Gen1GT]

Running my car for 5 mins will not hurt my engine..and don't even bother trying to argue with me about it..my bro is a diesel mechanic..and yes i guess i am the casue of global warming

Diesels are quite a bit different from spark ignition engines. Their oil is much thicker, and they require a lot more heat to get to operating temps. Regardless, I'm on your side...I don't give a rat's ass about global warming (I'm not even convinced it's happening). My only problem with idling longer, is fuel usage.

[Burner]

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread about warming up engines.

You want your engine to spend the least amount of time being cold possible. The longer it stays cold, the more wear you put on it. So idling it for 5 minutes is probably the worse practice.

Back in my racing days, when we pulled the cars out in the morning, we'd rev them to 4k and hold them there until all the temps an pressures were within the normal ranges.

[aris]

only having a little fun, don't take everything so seriously, argue, why would I, but if I did argue with you whats the big deal about your bro being a diesel mechanic?

it's not a big deal..just stating cause some people think that i'm killing my engine by leaving it running for 5 mins...i would understand if i was leaving my car running for hours but 5 mins and people ramble on that it's killing the engine is false.

[Flagrum_3]

watch they don't blow a fuse, if you plug into the cigarette lighter it just might as the fuse might not be strong enough?

Yeah I was wondering about that myself.Going to have to check it out a little bit more before I purchase.


_3

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

There's a lot of misinformation in this thread about warming up engines.

You want your engine to spend the least amount of time being cold possible. The longer it stays cold, the more wear you put on it. So idling it for 5 minutes is probably the worse practice.

Back in my racing days, when we pulled the cars out in the morning, we'd rev them to 4k and hold them there until all the temps an pressures were within the normal ranges.

Agreed on the wanting your engine to spend the least amout of time being cold as possible.

However, equating the practice of revving racing engines to 4K and holding them there to warm them up for race prep, as opposed to what one should do on a non-race car in -20 temperatures is simply silly. These are not comparable environments, nor practical applications. Revving your engine to 4K and holding it there at idle when the car is in extreme cold temperatures is simply a bad, bad idea.

[Flagrum_3]

it's not a big deal..just stating cause some people think that i'm killing my engine by leaving it running for 5 mins...i would understand if i was leaving my car running for hours but 5 mins and people ramble on that it's killing the engine is false.

Now this is what I mean by people misunderstanding other's!! In the other thread you argued your not doing harm to your engine by letting it run for 5 or ten minutes, and that may be true but only in your instance!! As you also state that you get onto the highway almost immediately and run on the highway for a time...this is the difference.The highway run at higher constant revs brings your car to operating temperature much quicker and for a longer period thus cleaning out whatever crap was left from idling so long.Most people are not in the same circumstance, they drive fewer klicks, maybe thru high congestion (stop and go), never really getting thier engines to proper OT long enough, to clean out.So it still stands in 'most cases' idling your engine for too long on cold mornings would still be a detriment to your engine's condition....This has been common knowledge for years....I'm not making it up! :)

Diesel's are completely different, I know because I deal with them everyday and leave them out in -20C overnight and they don't even start, without help!!, but once they do they won't warm up in idle...leave a diesel running in idle and she'll never warm up.That's a fact jack!


_3

[Flagrum_3]

Agreed on the wanting your engine to spend the least amout of time being cold as possible.

However, equating the practice of revving racing engines to 4K and holding them there to warm them up for race prep, as opposed to what one should do on a non-race car in -20 temperatures is simply silly. These are not comparable environments, nor practical applications. Revving your engine to 4K and holding it there at idle when the car is in extreme cold temperatures is simply a bad, bad idea.

+1. Completely different situation.


_3

[Burner]

Agreed on the wanting your engine to spend the least amout of time being cold as possible.

However, equating the practice of revving racing engines to 4K and holding them there to warm them up for race prep, as opposed to what one should do on a non-race car in -20 temperatures is simply silly. These are not comparable environments, nor practical applications. Revving your engine to 4K and holding it there at idle when the car is in extreme cold temperatures is simply a bad, bad idea.

I'm not suggesting that practice for street vehicles on cold starts. I was merely using it as an example. Starting up a car in -20 and scraping the windows clean is more than enough idle warm up time.

[aris]

I'm never responding on a thread about idling..lol


could we get back on topic and please keep me out of it:)

[Flagrum_3]

I'm never responding on a thread about idling..lol


could we get back on topic and please keep me out of it:)

No way man, we'll keep hounding you till you let that poor sheep loose! :chuckle


:pervert sign :chuckle


Sorry back on topic.


_3

[aris]

Now this is what I mean by people misunderstanding other's!! In the other thread you argued your not doing harm to your engine by letting it run for 5 or ten minutes, and that may be true but only in your instance!! As you also state that you get onto the highway almost immediately and run on the highway for a time...this is the difference.The highway run at higher constant revs brings your car to operating temperature much quicker and for a longer period thus cleaning out whatever crap was left from idling so long.Most people are not in the same circumstance, they drive fewer klicks, maybe thru high congestion (stop and go), never really getting thier engines to proper OT long enough, to clean out.So it still stands in 'most cases' idling your engine for too long on cold mornings would still be a detriment to your engine's condition....This has been common knowledge for years....I'm not making it up! :)


_3

And you are right i forgot to mention that i pull straight out on the highway and the highway is 80km


No way man, we'll keep hounding you till you let that poor sheep loose! :chuckle


:pervert sign :chuckle


Sorry back on topic.


_3

:whoa

:chuckle

[Chester_Lampwick]

watch they don't blow a fuse, if you plug into the cigarette lighter it just might as the fuse might not be strong enough?

Yeah I was wondering about that myself.Going to have to check it out a little bit more before I purchase.


_3

Well, think about this for a second. If it's marketed for automotive use and has the cigar lighter plug, then it's meant to plug into a cigar lighter/power outlet. It's quite likely that the Mazda's power port has enough amperage, it'd be atypical if it didn't. Now if it came with 200amp clamps that you were going to cut off and attach a cigar lighter plug, then I'd foresee a problem

[r4BBiT]

1) start car
2a) scrap ice/frost off car
OR
2b) put defroster on max, come back a few minutes later.
3) drive away.

I do 2A technique, since I don't have garage, and it works out pretty well ;]

btw. I miss my temp gauge in too :(

[Flagrum_3]

Well, think about this for a second. If it's marketed for automotive use and has the cigar lighter plug, then it's meant to plug into a cigar lighter/power outlet. It's quite likely that the Mazda's power port has enough amperage, it'd be atypical if it didn't. Now if it came with 200amp clamps that you were going to cut off and attach a cigar lighter plug, then I'd foresee a problem

I was thinking that too :chuckle ...I'm not even sure how the thing gets power! Assuming though it just plugs into the lighter outlet and also assuming it is auto designed, so it should be fine.Can't see any problems, they'd have to pass standards and am sure they don't want any court actions against them lol.

_3

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

No way man, we'll keep hounding you till you let that poor sheep loose! :chuckle


:pervert sign :chuckle


Sorry back on topic.


_3

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/crazy4aussies38/hit_it_sheep.jpg


I was thinking that too :chuckle ...I'm not even sure how the thing gets power! Assuming though it just plugs into the lighter outlet and also assuming it is auto designed, so it should be fine.Can't see any problems, they'd have to pass standards and am sure they don't want any court actions against them lol.

_3

You'll be fine Ron. My wife has been using one of these heated seat covers in her car, the '05, for 2 years now without issue.

[Junior]

30 seconds normally.

1 minute on the really cold days (or as long as it takes me to clean off snow)

[TheMAN]

I'm never responding on a thread about idling..lol


could we get back on topic and please keep me out of it:)
exactly why I'm not saying anything in this thread
I said my piece in another thread and I will stand by my opinion that a 5 min warm up (at least until the temperature gauge starts moving) is minimum

[MRT_MS3]

When it gets below -20C, I leave my car idling for at least 5mins. Until you can show solid proof that its bad for the engine, I will idle til the car is warm. It shifts so much better and the car runs much smoother.

[Manpreet]

i let mine idle for 2- 3 mins oe until i see the temperature guage start moving

[mazda lover]

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n81/crazy4aussies38/hit_it_sheep.jpg



You'll be fine Ron. My wife has been using one of these heated seat covers in her car, the '05, for 2 years now without issue.

the only reason I brought it up is a friend tried one in her 1999 Sunfire and just kept blowing the same fuse

[Fuman]

you guys do know the engine idle rev at startup depends on the temperature right?
as the engine warms, the revs drop.

[towelsnap]

you guys do know the engine idle rev at startup depends on the temperature right?
as the engine warms, the revs drop.

bingo!! I never drive my car unless its under 1000rpms.... even when it's zero or 1 I let it idle for more than 5mins..... when it's -15 I'm 8-10 + mins....

Call me lame or I hate the environment but I'm not gonna drive my car if it's not warmed up enough

[Chester_Lampwick]

the only reason I brought it up is a friend tried one in her 1999 Sunfire and just kept blowing the same fuse

Fair enough. Perhaps a bad unit that draws more than it should?

I've also had a circuit that constantly blew fuses. It blew a 5A fuse, so I replaced it. Then again. Then I read the manual. It was supposed to be a 7.5A. I guess somebody replaced it but didn't have the correct size, 7.5A aren't as common, I guess. Replace with 7.5 and had no more issues.

You can check amperage of your outlet too. Mazda stamps this on the cover. I'm not sure what the maximum an accessory can draw. My 300W inverter has the cigar lighter cord, but my math tells me I'd blow a fuse before I ever produced 300W. It has clamps too, I guess I'd need them for anything over 100W or so...

[candal82]

For me, the colder the temperature, the longer I'll leave it. I'll let it warm up until the temp gauge starts to move. It's not only the fluids that you have to be concerned with, but also the pistons. They will rock and slap until they've expanded... You can actually hear and feel it. Start your car when it's really cold, and give it a small blip right away.

[TheMAN]

I said that in another thread, but thanks for saying the same thing

[ricohman]

When its -42 like today I let it warm for a few minutes.
The oil will still be thick like syrup so I drive easy for the first few miles.

[ricohman]

Do eastern cars have block heaters installed as a rule?

[STeeLy]

No... the only place I know of in Canada that have Mandatory Block heater is Alberta but there's probably more... Ontario isn't mandatory to have block heaters installed.

I never move my car after I start until it drops to around 1500 RPM, winter or summer.

[grex]

I let it warm up until the cabin of the car is warm lol = probably a little longer then needed...but its alot nicer gettin in!

[pacmann33]

30 seconds to a minute is usually PLENTY. Like stated earlier in this thread, driving the car with light load is optimal for quick warm up to operating temps. in the coldest days I'd let it idle for 2 minutes at most, or until I get the thing scraped free of ice and snow LOL. The engine idling is not going to warm your car up very fast at all. Cars are designed different now than they were 30 years ago.

[TheMAN]

and it still has a crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, camshaft, and valves... and it still burns gas and air.... just like the last past 100 years

what you said doesn't mean much to me

[pacmann33]

It doesn't have to...you have your own very polarized opinions that may or may not always be right. Just because you are a mechanic does not mean you're THE MAN.

Sorry dude, but you often come across in a kind of negative way towards others.

I know ALOT of mechanics who don't know anything, but think they know everything, like anything in life. Not saying that is the case with you, but in general it happens more often than we would all like to admit.

Of course it still has valves, crankshaft etc. That has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

Cars have much better control over fuel delivery and combustion to begin with. On top of that manufacturing tolerances are better, improved materials and manufacturing processes allow for much more consistent expansion and contraction rates. In addition, oil delivery method also play a huge role here, due to attempts at reducing pumping and windage losses, making cooler oil less of an issue during cold starts. There are many many factors here, but I would even argue that idling for a long period of time does more harm than good, but the harm it does is still negligible, but you are wasting time and gas.

[aris]

and it still has a crankshaft, connecting rods, pistons, camshaft, and valves... and it still burns gas and air.... just like the last past 100 years

what you said doesn't mean much to me

+1

[CFX]

:blah :chuckle


why not just warm the car until your revs drop past your preference?
for me its 1500 rpm.
"30 seconds" in winter is very subjective, since winter encompasses a large temperature range.

Best answer, enough said.

[ricohman]

No... the only place I know of in Canada that have Mandatory Block heater is Alberta but there's probably more... Ontario isn't mandatory to have block heaters installed.

I never move my car after I start until it drops to around 1500 RPM, winter or summer.

Where I live (Sakatchewan) its manditory.
It was -38 this AM.

[ricohman]

Where I live (Sakatchewan) its manditory.
It was -38 this AM.

30 seconds isn't enough for my liking. I usually warm for at least a few minutes at this temp.

[cwp_sedan]

Where I live (Sakatchewan) its manditory.
It was -38 this AM.

ewwwwwwww. Now that's cold!

[riceRocket]

I think warming up your car for more than 5 minutes usually gives you the false sense of security. 30 second is enough as long as you go really easy for the first 5 minute of driving. I usualy start my car, wait for 1 minute. Then drive under 1500rpm for the first minute or so. When I am finally out of my condo, i'll start driving under 2000rpm for 5 minutes or more until i see the temp gauge start moving.

[alho]

I park my car in an underground garage and I wait around 30 sec before I start moving the car after I start. The highway is close by and I am usually on it in less than 5 min... My revs are around 1800rpm cruising at around 90kph and I keep it this way for a good 5 min.

Is this ok for a cold engine.. or am I still putting too much load on it and should wait a bit longer for it to warm up before going on the hwy?

[Cosmo77]

My hand is hardly off the key before the clutch is coming out! But I'm always late for work!

[BMWWW]

So much concern about the engine, what about your transmission?

A minute or so is good enough (more when clearing snow), but as always, baby it for the first 5 minutes or so, and let your tranny fluid warm up as well.

Profit.

[TheMAN]

My hand is hardly off the key before the clutch is coming out! But I'm always late for work!
so don't sleep in

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

This thread.

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/beatdeadhorse.gif

[FlashEngineer]

My car isn't a Mazda but, the STI I drive has this air pump thing that turns on at startup for like 20-45sec, usually after it turns off I go. What I do is just clutch out and don't touch the gas and drive like that for 1min or 2 then slowly drive it below 3000rpm.

[ricohman]

It is -38 today. With the wind its -52.
I would dare anyone to cold start a car for 30 seconds and drive away.
Probably push the seals out of the trans.

[philipfreire]

Honestly I think its best to wait 5 minutes and then drive slowly (or under 1500-2000 rpms) until the temp gauge goes up at least a quarter.

[OhAxela]

I warm up my car for at least 3 minuites before I drive it (temp between +5 and -5)

anything more than -15 I let it warm up for 5 minuites

[Fuman]

This thread.

http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/beatdeadhorse.gif

better gif =p
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/im-on-to-you/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

better gif =p
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg103/im-on-to-you/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

Thank-you...:)

[mazda lover]

Some false and truths about car myths, setting the record straight.

http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/1647/mechanics-set-the-record-straight

[casperwonder]

good read.

[TheMAN]

Some false and truths about car myths, setting the record straight.

http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/1647/mechanics-set-the-record-straight
again, that doesn't prove anything

none of you "start up and go" guys have ever shown anything where idling the car for even 5 minutes is OMFG teh engine is going to blowz!!!1111!!
so while I agree that engine tech and oil tech has improved over the years, they have always "worked immediately" ever since the late 80s with the advent of EFI and hand me down knowledge passed down from synthetic oil tech applied to dino oils

you guys are also right that none of us warm up freaks have ever proven anything to you guys that warming up does better/won't harm a thing either... but my own ears don't lie to me when I say I can hear piston slap and a noisier valvetrain as soon as I start up an engine and going when the weather is cold... just waiting even 5 minutes makes a big difference and makes that basically go away... both of those noises are indicative of one thing... there is excessive clearance and/or lack of proper lubrication and thus causing wear

I've torn down several GAS engines before as well as seen others... I have seen how clearances makes a big difference in how an engine works... and it's no brainer that this changes with temperature... no matter what technology, you CANNOT argue with physics, and it seems like all these "idling is bad" articles are trying to do that

till then, please don't waste my time with "articles" like those from so-called "experts"... there's millions of these out there and they're all the same.... find me an article that isn't baseless and tells me WHY (with actual technical explanations, whether in layman terms or actual technical terms) idling is bad and why you can just start up and go

for those who don't know what piston slap is:
http://www.pistonslap.com/whatisit.htm
granted, it's a page on an apparent major GM issue and that issue really applies to no other maker, but piston slap is piston slap
with all the advances in engine tech, such as piston skirt changes, hypereutetic pistons, offset wrist pins, etc, these have REDUCED not eliminated piston slap... that "rough" noise you hear when the engine is cold is probably piston slap you're hearing... though a minor variation of it because it isn't rattling like hell

and like I said, every maker's engines experience this to some degree... in order to show it's not a GM only thing
http://www.fixya.com/cars/t593300-piston_slap_problem_98_forester_need
http://au.toyotaownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19986
those are obviously rare cases where the piston slap is extreme, but all cars still exhibit this and it's so minor that you can hardly notice it

[aris]

again, that doesn't prove anything

none of you "start up and go" guys have ever shown anything where idling the car for even 5 minutes is OMFG teh engine is going to blowz!!!1111!!
so while I agree that engine tech and oil tech has improved over the years, they have always "worked immediately" ever since the late 80s with the advent of EFI and hand me down knowledge passed down from synthetic oil tech applied to dino oils

you guys are also right that none of us warm up freaks have ever proven anything to you guys that warming up does better/won't harm a thing either... but my own ears don't lie to me when I say I can hear piston slap and a noisier valvetrain as soon as I start up an engine and going when the weather is cold... just waiting even 5 minutes makes a big difference and makes that basically go away... both of those noises are indicative of one thing... there is excessive clearance and/or lack of proper lubrication and thus causing wear

I've torn down several GAS engines before as well as seen others... I have seen how clearances makes a big difference in how an engine works... and it's no brainer that this changes with temperature... no matter what technology, you CANNOT argue with physics, and it seems like all these "idling is bad" articles are trying to do that

+1:winner

[blake_peanut]

This can be beaten to deat but I'm a firm believer in letting my engine warm up substantially before driving. Bottom line is your car, your money, treat is as you wish.

[iGOzoom]

Usually warm it up for 3-5 minutes, sometimes longer especially if it hasn't been started in a few days.

[SomeGuy]

Warm the car up until I can see out the damn window (even after scraping). I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, but if your windows are frosted up (or will frost with your breathe) then it's a whole heck of a lot more dangerous to your car to be driving when you can't see then with a cold engine!

[aris]

Warm the car up until I can see out the damn window (even after scraping). I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, but if your windows are frosted up (or will frost with your breathe) then it's a whole heck of a lot more dangerous to your car to be driving when you can't see then with a cold engine!

I have mentioned this on another thread a while ago and people thought i was crazy when i mentioned it..telling me i need to turn on the a/c..but i know and you know that it doesn't clear off that quick

[Flunk]

I'm quite surprised that everyone hasn't said that. I just start it up, knock off the snow and ice and go but it takes a hell of a lot longer than 60 seconds. Even with no snow it takes a minute or so at least to make sure the windows aren't going to frost up.

The manual for my '10 Mazda 3 Sport claims that the condenser for the AC runs when you use the rear window defroster and while I can't verify this it would basically kill any reason to run the AC in the winter.