Rant: Tires23 + Gorilla lock nuts

[SilentJay]

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So I decided to switch over to my winters today. I sucked it up and went to crappy tire, picked up a $30 air compressor and a torque wrench. When I went to take off the lugnut, it seemed to take a lot of effort to get it off...

Great, here we go...

I pulled out the torque wrench and tried to gauge how tight the lugnuts were in. Set it to 70ft. lbs... click. 80... click. 90... click. 100... click. 110... click.

So it seems that when Tires23 mounted my new rims, they just impacted them in until they wouldn't budge. Faaaaantasic.

I put the key into a different locknut (+ wrench only, no impact tools for me), and this time, it budged! Woo! Wait... Hmm... the key is spinning, but the nut isn't. Ffffuuuuu....

The key was totally stripped, chipped, and falling appart. What kind of garbage did they use to make this key? Rotten bananas?! I kinda panicked, and was even messaging Phil about it - Tires23 was of course closed today. I paced around the garage cursing for a while, but ended up remembering that the locknuts all looked kind of hex-like. I rushed over to crappy tire again and bought a T60 and T55 hex socket, and lo-and-behold, they were opening. :flaming:flaming:flaming:flaming



Coles notes:
=========
- Tires23 impacted the sh*t out these locknuts when I bought the rims/tires
- Gorilla locknut keys suck azz
- Gorilla locknuts also mean jack-squat, security-wise, as I opened them with hex bits that can be purchased for $7
- Thank god my rims aren't affected, just going to throw out these POS locknuts

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[S.F.W.]

You should at the very least email T23 to let them know about your concerns, and unhappiness.

[SilentJay]

Sent, hoping for a reply.

[aris]

Sucks man..hopefully everything works out for you

[Chester_Lampwick]

It's great that your doing your own changeovers. Well, I'm a little uneasy with anyone doing tire my tire rotations or having to take a wheel off for any reason. I mean these monkeys with their impact guns, geez. An impact gun should never be used to put wheel nuts on. There have been all kinds of TSBs from many manufacturers on this. This little habit has a tendency to warp brake rotors!

I personally use the impact gun to take off the nuts, all but the locking one that is. Then I coast the nuts on with the impact, and follow with the torque wrench in a star pattern. I hate having to tell the service advisor that I don't want the "burp gun" used. I doubt they ever would listen...

[chinsterr]

Never had a problem with tires23. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

[SilentJay]

^^^ I've never either, that's why it's kind of distressing

[Tokic_o]

yeah wen i went to tires23 they gave me the same lug nuts and key. the lug nuts were done in a year. like a lot of members probably will say, get the other style lug nuts where the key goes around the outside of the lug instead of inside

[Hives]

Sorry to hear about your troubles man. Many shops do that. I won't be surprised if they do it at the dealer.

[SilentJay]

Yeah, i'm sure most places do - just compounding problem upon problem on top of a problem.

[blankets3]

ya i hate my gorillaz they have no lock what so ever, i can pull mine off the the stupid lil tire iron thing we get in our car, getting new ones this spring.

[Thrizzl3]

ya i hate my gorillaz they have no lock what so ever, i can pull mine off the the stupid lil tire iron thing we get in our car, getting new ones this spring.

gorilla "nuts" FTL lol








sorry im bored lol..

[SilentJay]

lol - Yeah, dependant on what direction I wanna go in, I'll need a new set of lock nuts too. Ones that's not built like a bendy-straw...

[mleblond]

Yea really, I always do hand tight then torque, and quickly learned that locknut's are the worst invention ever. if someone wants to steal ur rims, they will find a way...or when you need to torch the locknut because it got stripped and doesn't want come off you'll think differently about them.

[Tires23]

Hi Jason,

The impact gun we use is an Ingersoll Rand that has a rating of 780 ft-lbs. If we had gunned it on, it would snap the studs. We always use torque sticks when installing wheels. After the car is lowered onto the floor, we re-torque with Snap On torque wrenches to the vehicles specs. If you want to resolve this issue, call us during our business hours. If you like, you can leave us your number and we will contact you.

Monday to Friday: 10am to 7pm
Saturday: 10am to 5pm

(905) 602-8881

Thank you
Eddie

[Noisy Crow]

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/1113880-post7.html


One thing most people don't realize, including a lot of techs, is that they are designed for a limited amount of torque input.
Meaning, if you use too large of an impact gun with too high of a setting then they will still overtorque the wheels and potentially cause damage.
http://www.torquestick.com/cart/catalog/80_ft_lb_110_Nm_TORQUE_STICK_EXTENSION_BAR_Yellow-p-33.html


1/2" drive 80 ft/lb Torque Extension Bar - Prevent overtightening of lug nuts! 7" length. (1/2" drive female-(gun end), 1/2" drive male (lug nut socket end)

Torque Stick is accurate to within +/- 4% when used with a 1/2" Drive Impact Gun that delivers a maximum torque of 375-400ft/lb


The impact gun we use is an Ingersoll Rand that has a rating of 780 ft-lbs.



After the car is lowered onto the floor, we re-torque with Snap On torque wrenches to the vehicles specs.

Do you loosen and re-tighten them? Unless you do that then the hand torque wrench will only only tell you if they are under-torqued.

[Chester_Lampwick]

The impact gun we use is an Ingersoll Rand that has a rating of 780 ft-lbs. If we had gunned it on, it would snap the studs.


Not that I blame the tire guys, but that sounds like some BS to me. I don't think an impact gun in the 1/2" size that tire guys produces 780 ft-lbs. Maybe half that, and even if it does nobody sets these things at max. There is an adjustment.

I don't know why you'd use a torque stick then a torque wrench. You can't properly torque a nut that has been torqued due to starting friction. So unless you use a 40 ft-lb stick then torque to 80 with the wrench.

[SilentJay]

Alrighty, i'm going to give you guys a call @ 10 on the dot this morning!

[bubba1983]

Not that I blame the tire guys, but that sounds like some BS to me. I don't think an impact gun in the 1/2" size that tire guys produces 780 ft-lbs. Maybe half that, and even if it does nobody sets these things at max. There is an adjustment.



on the contrary, the 1/2 inch gun which i use at work, has an 1150lbs breakaway force in reverse, and it can tighten well over 600+lbs

dont underestimate a good 1/2" gun, they are very powerfull

[Chester_Lampwick]

on the contrary, the 1/2 inch gun which i use at work, has an 1150lbs breakaway force in reverse, and it can tighten well over 600+lbs

dont underestimate a good 1/2" gun, they are very powerfull


Yeah, but they are designed to be more powerful in reverse. Also, you'd have to hold the trigger an exceedingly long time to tighten a nut to that kind of torque.

From Eddie's description Tires23 are definitely using their tools wrong. The impact gun is for removing lug nuts, not installing them.

[bubba1983]

im more than aware how impact guns work

[azn_outlaw]

Damn had to read this twice but

Wow All this over ONE and I mean one damn lock nut

common ONE, frig one NUT

and what on your winters

this OVER ONE NUT....common really....

want some over torqued NUTS to complain about dude, have you ever checked the how much OVER TORQUED THE 5 NUTS

thats right 5 NOT 1 nuts are on your car when you bought your car and drove it off the lot..

I will tell you now it is more then double then the manufactured specs

COMMON ONE DAMN NUT...

ONE ahahahahahaha ONE ahahahahahaha ONE ahahahaha

[SilentJay]

Damn had to read this twice but
Wow All this over ONE and I mean one damn lock nut
common ONE, frig one NUT
and what on your winters
this OVER ONE NUT....common really....
want some over torqued NUTS to complain about dude, have you ever checked the how much OVER TORQUED THE 5 NUTS
thats right 5 NOT 1 nuts are on your car when you bought your car and drove it off the lot..
I will tell you now it is more then double then the manufactured specs
COMMON ONE DAMN NUT...
ONE ahahahahahaha ONE ahahahahahaha ONE ahahahaha

Wow, is it really that funny? Perhaps before you comment though, you'd like to make sure that it was indeed "ONE NUT". It wasn't ONE nut, I stopped trying after 4 on various wheels. Besides, the complaint is also about the inferior quality of the key.

[Ogata]

so what was the end result? Did it get resolved?

[SilentJay]

I emailed, was asked to call. Called, nobody apparently heard of my problem. Was asked to call back. Called back, again nobody took any ownership/onus, was asked to call back again.

Forget it - I don't really have enough time to toy around with calling/arguing, so i'll call it a lesson learnt. I do still need a new set of lock nuts, and will probably end up paying out-of-pocket. The prices at tires23 are decent, and i've gone there for everything for my 3 cars, but the lack of responsibility and "pride in customer service" will have me hesitating the next time I need something.

[kevcol74]

I've only ever used McGuard locks, and never had a problem with them (hence why I have never strayed really) Bought a cheap set from Princess Auto once, and they didn't even make it off the car once, stripped the nut by hand.
McGuard makes them all, tuners and regulars.... Never heard of Gorilla until recent years, and have no desire to try them.
My opinion for a replacement set....

For Tire23, did you ask directly for Eddie? He is the one that responded here....

[SilentJay]

Honestly, I don't remember who I asked for/spoke to, it was quite a while ago. Again, I don't think it's worth the time/trouble anymore - A quick resolution where i'd be contacted as opposed to having to flush them out would've been a bit more "customer friendly", if anyone at Tires23 decides to read this.

I always thought Gorilla made ok stuff, but this particular model was shockingly easy to take off without a key if you had the right hex bits.

[kevcol74]

You can hammer on an undersized socket onto most locks and get them off. Its not theft prevention, its a theft deterent. If the theives really want your rims, they will get them.
I know the style of tuners you have, and yes, the hex tool is easy to get. Its not considered a lock, its a tuner lug. The lock will have a unique (to a degree) pattern that an over the counter tool won't work on.

Here is a good page for a comparison:
http://www.mcgard.com/Home/AutomotiveProducts/LugNuts/SplineDriveLugNuts

I'd suggest spline drive lugs for replacements, and locks to match. The spline drives come with their own thin wall socket.

[SonicBoy]

Spline drives look nice. Even the locks are weight matched which is great.

I normally put my OEM lock nut opposite the valve stem just to ballance the weight out. (LOL).