REPORT: Ford and Mazda may develop vehicles separately going forward

[blankets3]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/04/report-ford-and-mazda-may-develop-vehicles-separately-going-for/



my fav comment

"
MachinaDC5 5:39PM (12/04/2009)

No rotary-powered F150 in the pipeline?! Damn. "

[thanu31]

:headbang

[Hives]

Thats a good thing. Mazda would be far better off. No more shitty engine mounts breaking thanks to Ford.

[laksman91]

one more reason for the rebirth of the rx7 =D

[TheMAN]

Thats a good thing. Mazda would be far better off. No more shitty engine mounts breaking thanks to Ford.
no more shitty engines, electronics, and suspension parts you mean?

big difference in quality between a REAL mazda and a forazda (I have both)

[McGuyver_3]

My 05 3 was driven to the extreme on a daily basis and did not have a single engine problem except for the maf codes because of my intake nor electrical problem and got super crazy amazing mileage was lowered pretty much all its life and had stiffinig bars and sway bars and anything you could think of and never had any problems. So are you saying my car was "lucky"

[OhAxela]

My car turned out to be a lemon at first but warranty fixed all that,

[crono06]

First time Mazda owner in the family. No problems so far, and hopefully will never have any =D

[Nova 3 GT]

[...]
big difference in quality between a REAL mazda and a forazda (I have both)

I prefer Mazord :chuckle

[crono06]

I prefer Mazord :chuckle

Does that have anything to do with the fact that it sounds similar to Megazord?!

[TheMAN]

I prefer Mazord :chuckle
if major components are greater mazda than ford, then it's a mazord, if it's more ford than mazda, then it's a forazda :chuckle

[r4BBiT]

it must japan thing with quality ;] today I changed rear speakers in my fiancee's new car (2000 civic ex) with 90 accord exr (they were made in japan, vs mexico) and they exactly the same except quality of materials used, accord have excellent bass, she loves it :P

[philipfreire]

I hear the major differences Mazda and Ford had are the directions Ford wants to take with their EcoBoost motors while Mazda wants no part in it and wants to remain on course with their rotary engines and SKY program.

It's a shame because I'm liking the idea of the EcoBoost a lot more now a days. A V4 engine that preforms like a V6 and is better in fuel economy than most v4's.

Ford's doing a lot of things right now a days and this motor is just that good. But i'm sure a lot of you guys on here would frond upon a ford motor in a Mazda.

[McGuyver_3]

isnt the old 2.0L a focus motor?

[kevcol74]

I hear the major differences Mazda and Ford had are the directions Ford wants to take with their EcoBoost motors while Mazda wants no part in it and wants to remain on course with their rotary engines and SKY program.

It's a shame because I'm liking the idea of the EcoBoost a lot more now a days. A V4 engine that preforms like a V6 and is better in fuel economy than most v4's.

Ford's doing a lot of things right now a days and this motor is just that good. But i'm sure a lot of you guys on here would frond upon a ford motor in a Mazda.

What is a V4? :whoa

[McGuyver_3]

Was thinking thd same thing but the way I understand it is they are going to develope a v4 engine that is more efficient and more power then a v6 or am I way off here

[kevcol74]

Maybe an I4 or a H4, but I have yet to see a production V4.... Or hear of it.... According to what I have found its a I4 (inline 4).

[philipfreire]

yeah sorry guys not a v4. I think it's an inline 4. I hear this from Brian Cooley's podcast report this week. Their partnership was mainly on transmission technology and they shared platforms as we all know.

[kevcol74]

Personally I hope they don't seperate, as the both bring goodness to the designs. Ford as of late has REALLY turned things around. Besides, I had a Mazda3, and 3 Proteges, all had their problems.... My Escape has yet to have one. 83K later I have done front brakes, thats it... and thats only because i pull a trailer with it! Not even a recall on my Escape. So don't tell me Mazda is all that and a bag of chips and Ford suck donkey balls... it just isn't that way! :chuckle

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Personally I hope they don't seperate, as the both bring goodness to the designs. Ford as of late has REALLY turned things around. Besides, I had a Mazda3, and 3 Proteges, all had their problems.... My Escape has yet to have one. 83K later I have done front brakes, thats it... and thats only because i pull a trailer with it! Not even a recall on my Escape. So don't tell me Mazda is all that and a bag of chips and Ford suck donkey balls... it just isn't that way! :chuckle

Kev, the Ford Escape is a rebadged Mazda Tribute with a slight suspension tweak to make it, errrrr, more Ford like in handling. The rest of the vehicle is essentially Mazda with some shared Forzda components.

[TheMAN]

you mean the mazda tribute is a REBADGED ford escape

the whole damn thing is a ford! the early ones were nothing but problems
don't lie to yourself... it cracks me up everytime mazda fanboys like to claim something as their own (such as the MZR engine) when it's not!

[MikeyGT]

you mean the mazda tribute is a REBADGED ford escape

the whole damn thing is a ford! the early ones were nothing but problems
don't lie to yourself... it cracks me up everytime mazda fanboys like to claim something as their own (such as the MZR engine) when it's not!

Not to be a jerk and all but I was just browsing through the web and no where does it say the MZR engine was developed by ford. If anything, it was assisted by them.

And wasn't the MZR/Durantec engine first originated by Mazda and than Ford came along and said, I like your style, lets work together on the engine and make it look awesome.

[kevcol74]

you mean the mazda tribute is a REBADGED ford escape

the whole damn thing is a ford! the early ones were nothing but problems
don't lie to yourself... it cracks me up everytime mazda fanboys like to claim something as their own (such as the MZR engine) when it's not!

Thanks...lol Zoom Zoom Boy was out to lunch on that one! Open the hood of a Tribute and I'll point out the MANY MANY MANY Ford labelled parts! lol

Also, have a look into the ratings of Ford and reliability and quality.... You may find they are at the top with Honda and Toyota now...... In fact, the Fusion rates better than the Camry and Accord.....

But hey, all you Ford haters just keep hating, its your loss.

"Ford was the only domestic automaker with ratings on par with those of other global automakers. Ninety percent of Ford, Mercury and Lincoln products earned average or better reliability scores, besting even longtime reliability leaders like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry."
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/1614/most-expensive-cars-to-repair

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

you mean the mazda tribute is a REBADGED ford escape

the whole damn thing is a ford! the early ones were nothing but problems
don't lie to yourself... it cracks me up everytime mazda fanboys like to claim something as their own (such as the MZR engine) when it's not!

The whole damn thing is not a Ford. The Tribute/Escape was jointly developed and yes, there are a whackload of Ford parts because it was essentially made for the North American SUV crazed market and built in Flat Rock Michigan in the co-op auto-alliance plant. The whole damn thing was designed off of the Mazda 626 platform. The 626 is not a Ford design, although again, they created Ford deriviatives from it and they too were all built in Michigan. The suspension tuning on the Tribute and Escape are also vastly different in case you've ever actually driven both of them.

I do agree that both vehicles are frankly POS, as was the old gen Mazda 626 they are based off.



Thanks...lol Zoom Zoom Boy was out to lunch on that one! Open the hood of a Tribute and I'll point out the MANY MANY MANY Ford labelled parts! lol

Also, have a look into the ratings of Ford and reliability and quality.... You may find they are at the top with Honda and Toyota now...... In fact, the Fusion rates better than the Camry and Accord.....

But hey, all you Ford haters just keep hating, its your loss.

"Ford was the only domestic automaker with ratings on par with those of other global automakers. Ninety percent of Ford, Mercury and Lincoln products earned average or better reliability scores, besting even longtime reliability leaders like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry."
http://ca.autos.yahoo.com/p/1614/most-expensive-cars-to-repair

Not out to lunch, but thanks.

Yes, there are a ton of Ford parts in it, so what? There are a lot of Mazda and Volvo parts in a lot of Fords too, just as the same is true the other way around. Using your logic here, that would mean the Ford Probe and Ford Escort were really Ford's then too... All this proves is that they share platforms and efficiencies.

As I said earlier, the Tribute and Escape was designed originally in the height of the SUV craze and meant to compete in the North American SUV market segment. The point being is that the platform was designed off of a Mazda 626 and developed mutually from there. Ford has more of a heritage in building SUV's, so it is natural to leverage that experience. If it was designed off a Mustang, then by all means, say it is a Ford design. That is not the case here however.

And again, where did I hate on Ford? Sure, I'm the first to admit that I don't like domestic cars for the most part and that I dislike the domestic car manuafacturer mentality even more towards their consumers, but nowhere was that part of anything I said in this thread, simply because it wasn't relevant.

I will say though that if someone put a gun to my head and said I needed to buy a domestic, then yes, it would most definitely be a Ford and assuming I had the money, it would probably be a Roush Mustang. In the interim, I'll continue to hope people don't put guns to my head, but if they do, you're my first suspect Kev. You insecure Ford fanboy you. :)

[mleblond]

FOMOCO is the name and it's all over engine parts, so this means no more fomoco parts on the mazda.

[kevcol74]

The whole damn thing is not a Ford. The Tribute/Escape was jointly developed and yes, there are a whackload of Ford parts because it was essentially made for the North American SUV crazed market and built in Flat Rock Michigan in the co-op auto-alliance plant. The whole damn thing was designed off of the Mazda 626 platform. The 626 is not a Ford design, although again, they created Ford deriviatives from it and they too were all built in Michigan. The suspension tuning on the Tribute and Escape are also vastly different in case you've ever actually driven both of them.

I do agree that both vehicles are frankly POS, as was the old gen Mazda 626 they are based off.




Not out to lunch, but thanks.

Yes, there are a ton of Ford parts in it, so what? There are a lot of Mazda and Volvo parts in a lot of Fords too, just as the same is true the other way around. Using your logic here, that would mean the Ford Probe and Ford Escort were really Ford's then too... All this proves is that they share platforms and efficiencies.

As I said earlier, the Tribute and Escape was designed originally in the height of the SUV craze and meant to compete in the North American SUV maket segment. The point being is that the platform was designed off of a Mazda 626 and developed mutually from there. Ford has more of a heritage in building SUV's, so it is natural to leverage that experience. If it was designed off a Mustang, then by all means, say it is a Ford design. That is not the case here however.

And again, where did I hate on Ford? Sure, I'm the first to admit that I don't like domestic cars for the most part and that I dislike the domestic car manuafacturer mentality even moe towards their consumers, but nowhere was that part of anything I said in this thread, simply because it wasn't relevant.

I will say though that if someone put a gun to my head and said I needed to buy a domestic, then yes, it would most definitely be a Ford and assuming I had the money, it would probably be a Roush Mustang. In the interim, I'll continue to hope people don't put guns to my head, but if they do, you're my first suspect Kev. You insecure Ford fanboy you. :)

Wow.... you are very mis-informed.... Flat Rock Michigan builds the Mustang along side the Mazda6, NOT THE ESCAPE/TRIBUTE!!!! Built on the Ford CD2 Platform, which was DEVELOPED from the GF Platform, not built on it.
They are built in Kansas City! Wow, glad I got the quote here!
There are differences in the Tribute and Escape, They ride the same (I know, I have the Escape, my brother has the Tribute) but the Tribute has a bit more pep due to Mazda's top end on the duratec V6. Same HP and torque, just different delivery.


And the ford haters comment wasn't directed at you, its directed at all the Ford hater out here. This thread was started to take a stab at Ford, claiming they have brought Mazda down.... They aren't what they used to be, and an educated person would know that. (educated in cars that is)

Now I'll leave it to TheMAN to take this in more depth about just how wrong you are! lol

(remember, its the internet, don't take it too personal!)

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Wow.... you are very mis-informed.... Flat Rock Michigan builds the Mustang along side the Mazda6, NOT THE ESCAPE/TRIBUTE!!!! Built on the Ford CD2 Platform, which was DEVELOPED from the GF Platform, not built on it.
They are built in Kansas City! Wow, glad I got the quote here!
There are differences in the Tribute and Escape, They ride the same (I know, I have the Escape, my brother has the Tribute) but the Tribute has a bit more pep due to Mazda's top end on the duratec V6. Same HP and torque, just different delivery.


And the ford haters comment wasn't directed at you, its directed at all the Ford hater out here. This thread was started to take a stab at Ford, claiming they have brought Mazda down.... They aren't what they used to be, and an educated person would know that. (educated in cars that is)

Now I'll leave it to TheMAN to take this in more depth about just how wrong you are! lol

(remember, its the internet, don't take it too personal!)

Yes Kev, you're correct, they are built in Kansas City. I was referring to the 626 being built in Flat Rock and lumped the Tribute and Escape into the same category. My error. However, the Tribute was based on the 626 platform and from reading I did at the time when the Tribute was released, the small SUV CD2 platform was largely credited to also be based on the 626, but I do not know enough about the CD2 platform to have any way of knowing this for sure.

Keep in mind, I am commenting on when the Tribute and Escape were originally released and developed. I am not commenting on any of the changes they may have undergone since as I don't follow these vehicles and Mazda doesn't even make the Tribute anymore to the best of my knowledge and replaced it with the CX7. It was never a successful platform for Mazda and rightfully didn't deserve to be.

I also drove each of the Tribute and Escape when they first came out as I was considering buying a Tribute at the time as I wanted a small SUV for going up to the boat. They drove remarkably different. The Escape drove like a bouncy Ford truck, like my dad's Explorer at the time and the Tribute drove like a car with a much tighter and firmer suspension tune. The driving experience was night and day. Whether they changed this in later years, I have no idea, but when they were released, they were tuned very differently.

Trust me, I don't take anything on here personally. :)

[kevcol74]

Mazda does still make the Tribute,more mis-information there. And they are built of the exact same platform, the Escape and Tribute. Basically saying they are a 626 is like saying the 94 Mustang (SN95) was built off the fox body mustang Chasis. Absolutely nothing alike, but the floor pan was about the only thing that remotely resembled the fox body. Everything was else was new,suspension mainly.
My bro's 02 Tribute has 200K on it, and have had no major issues. My escape, I've done front brakes only after 83K, and i likely could have stretched them to 100K if I wanted.
How can you say anything bad about a trouble free car/SUV?

[thekid]

^ Actually, now that Ford and Mazda have further separated (Ford's ownership down to 10% now), Mazda has to order X number of Tributes and B-Series pickups from Ford each year at a price set by Ford. The reason Zoom Zoom Boy probably thought the Tribute was gone was because up until August 09, Mazda hadn't 100% decided if they'd be continuing to carry the tribute in 2010. They did keep it on the roster for now, but don't expect that to be long lived.

If anyone cares, the new the CX-9 is built off of the Ford CD3 platform (aka Mazda GG chassis), which also happens to be the platform that Mazda revised and called the GH chassis for the new Mazda 6.

[kevcol74]

^ This is just getting too complicated....lol

So how is the CX9 Brian? Or have you taken possession yet?

I am a Ford boy at heart, but i do love the Mazdas as well... Ford has really trned it around in the last few years, and have really nice new designs to show for it (Fusion, Taurus, Euro Focus, Mustang) Some of their designs don't tickle my fancy (Flex, NA Focus) But overall, they are a great contender now. Mazda, just have sexy vehicles! lol The CX7 and CX9 are beautiful, too bad I'm limited to a CX9 if I wanted to go Mazda SUV (CX7 can't pull more than 2000lbs), and its a little out of budget right now. And the cars are beautiful, I really do miss my 3 most of all the cars I've bought and sold (even over the Impreza!)
Personally, I think its a bit of a loss for both going forward if they seperate. They both brings strengths to the table, and it would be nice to see them keep going together...
But , c'est la vie!

[TheMAN]

calling the tribute/escape/mariner a "mazda" simply because of its floorpan is soooo misinformed when the rest of the whole car is FORD... ford engine, ford wiring, ford transmission, ford ecu, ford suspension, ford exhaust, ford TPMS sensors, ford interior... just because it has some tweaks to it to make it "different" doesn't mean it was really designed/engineered by mazda

the only things that you can really say are mazda is the floor pan, radio, turn signal/wiper switches, manual transmission, and rest of little silly things that aren't worth mentioning

bottom line is, more than 90% of the car is FORD... deal with it

and I stand by what I say about major issues with the early tributes... I fixed plenty of broken ECU wires and weird misfire issues myself... squeeking door seals, squeeking steering column, interior that falls apart, etc



and calling the MZR a mazda engine is also wrong... so they jointly developed it, so what? ford already HAD the engine around, and they asked mazda to help improve it AFTERWARDS (like adding the S-VT system to the heads)... the result is the bastard child we have today that says FOMOCO all over it, have issues S-VT actuators going out, timing chain bolts loosening and causing engine to loose time thus grenading it because they were too cheap to put in woodruf keys into the pulley system, etc

I don't really like ford either, but I'm not going to lie to myself and lay claims to any of this stuff a mazda!
it's not a real mazda if it says FOMOCO on it, it's that simple

[kevcol74]

No wonder my lights/wipers and turn signal work so well! :chuckle

[sjd]

and calling the MZR a mazda engine is also wrong... so they jointly developed it, so what? ford already HAD the engine around, and they asked mazda to help improve it AFTERWARDS (like adding the S-VT system to the heads)... the result is the bastard child we have today that says FOMOCO all over it, have issues S-VT actuators going out, timing chain bolts loosening and causing engine to loose time thus grenading it because they were too cheap to put in woodruf keys into the pulley system, etc

I don't really like ford either, but I'm not going to lie to myself and lay claims to any of this stuff a mazda!
it's not a real mazda if it says FOMOCO on it, it's that simple

This is incorrect. Mazda was the lead engineering company on the MZR.

As for the Escape/Tribute, the first generation was jointly developed while the current wasn't.

[emcdonnell]

In general terms Fords current reliability and overall level of quality is largely to do with Mazda's input on there designs. Most significantly since 1997 both companies have worked together to develop the current line ups (with some help from Volvo and Jaguar)
personally I think that Ford has benifitted more from this relationship than Mazda. Though without Ford, Mazda did not have the resources for the reseach and development required to produce the quality of products we are all enjoying.
Yeah to Ford and Mazda for remembering that driving can and should be fun!!