Getting into 1st gear in the Mazdaspeed without any jerking

[Jon2000]

Hey there! I'm new to TM3 but have been a member on toprotege.com for several years.

I recently picked up a 2007 CWP Mazdaspeed3 and have been having a lot of fun with it but I'm finding it a little difficult to get the car rolling in 1st gear at a decent speed 100% smooth. It may be me just being a perfectionist but I'd prefer to not look like a noob. LOL I should mention that this is my first manual car - I had a 2000 Mazda Protege automatic for the last 8 years and an automatic Grand Prix before that.

For regular starts do you guys creep the clutch out to the friction point then feed it bit of gas while easing the clutch out the rest of the way as smooth as possible? ...or do you give a bit of gas, say around 1500rpm then ease the clutch out slow and smooth while increasing throttle? I've tried all kinds of different things - the first method seems to be the smoothest but it can be tricky for me to quickly get the clutch out to the friction point so I can start feeding gas. I don't want to fuss around slowly with the clutch when the light turns green and traffic is itching to move.

Thanks for the help!

Jon

[MajesticBlueNTO]

usually this:


creep the clutch out to the friction point then feed it bit of gas while easing the clutch out the rest of the way as smooth as possible

i heard it gets better/easier with a Cobb AP and then applying the throttle smoothing fixings in this thread (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?33629-MS3-ATR-The-Fixings-(May-14-2009))

[-cj-]

You just need to slip the clutch more. The clutch is super aggressive, so it clamps really early on. You have to 'wait' for that clamping point before releasing even more while applying more throttle. If you do either one (throttle or clutch) too aggressively at that point, you get engine bog or you burn the clutch a bit... It takes practice. A year after I bought the speed I still don't get perfect shifts/stop starts unless I'm concentrating on it 100%.

[silvermist99]

use 2nd anything above 2km/h

[Jon2000]

You just need to slip the clutch more. The clutch is super aggressive, so it clamps really early on. You have to 'wait' for that clamping point before releasing even more while applying more throttle. If you do either one (throttle or clutch) too aggressively at that point, you get engine bog or you burn the clutch a bit... It takes practice. A year after I bought the speed I still don't get perfect shifts/stop starts unless I'm concentrating on it 100%.

Thanks for the input guys. So do you give a little throttle while easing the clutch out to the clamping point or do you ease the clutch out without throttle until it clamps then add throttle? I've tried both ways ....adding a little throttle before clamping allows me to take off quicker but I have to slip the clutch more and I seem to almost bog a little. If I add gas after it starts to clamp I take off very smooth but I have to be very careful and slow getting the clutch to clamp or I end up blowing past the friction point and jerking. My drive to work is so short (maybe 7 starts/stops) that I have to make time to drive around and practice.

[SpeedBaby]

when i got my first MS3 it took me quite a bit of time to get used to the clutch. the friction point is indeed very short and the gear ratio is a lot less forgiving compared to other cars. just as cj explained the trick is to essentially get used to where the exact point is and hold it for a little longer before fully releasing while balancing off with throttle. in reality, however, theory does very little to help you in this case and it will all come with practice once you will get used to the feel of it (might take a few months though, so don't stress yourself if it doesn't happen right away). for the first couple of months i actually avoided using first gear all together for the most part: it's pretty short and for winter city driving isn't necessary at all.

[Jon2000]

I've been using less throttle until the clutch starts to grab and have had much better results. The take off is much more smooth without a big drop in rpm's. If I really ease the clutch out then add gas I can take off from idle very smooth but it's a little slower. I just need to practice the timing of everything so I'm not sitting there revving high before the clutch grabs. I find if I am revved a little higher as the clutch is grabbing, I just need to hold it a little longer to keep things smooth.

[LBV]

I just postd up a response on the other forum but I'll paste it here for the benefit of anyone else:

I felt the same way you guys do although I've got an MS6. What made it a ton better was adjusting the APP (accelerator pedal position) tables in the Cobb ATR software and then uploading the map to the ECU via the AP.

The stock APP tables are not a direct 1:1 relationship between the rate of pedal application and the rate of throttle valve opening. Here are the first few examples of the tables where the 1st # is the pedal value and the 2nd the throttle value:
0:0, 2:.25, 4:.65, 6:1.68 ... it doesn't get even until 28:28.

I changed all of my APP tables (incl. neutral) to a direct 1:1 relationship so 2:2, 4:4, etc. just to get the direct feel I missed on my cable-driven throttle cars and not only did I love the snappier throttle that came with it but an unexpected side benefit was the car was much easier to get going in 1st with little to none of the jerkiness when stock.

You obviously need to already have a Cobb AP and the free ATR software to do this but if anyone does do it, don't forget to change the "0Neutral" table as well because if you don't you're still gonna get the jerkiness.

[Fobio]

if you have an AP, this will help:

MS3/ATR Smooth Throttle Fixes (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?33921-MS3-ATR-Smooth-Throttle-Fixes-(May-23-2009))

[blackspeed3]

use 2nd anything above 2km/h

are you joking?

[m_bisson]

I've been using less throttle until the clutch starts to grab and have had much better results. The take off is much more smooth without a big drop in rpm's. If I really ease the clutch out then add gas I can take off from idle very smooth but it's a little slower. I just need to practice the timing of everything so I'm not sitting there revving high before the clutch grabs. I find if I am revved a little higher as the clutch is grabbing, I just need to hold it a little longer to keep things smooth.

Practice makes perfect. I've been driving stick for a long time and I still goof up occasionally. It will get easier with time, and eventually you'll be able to jump into any car and drive it regardless of how whacky the clutch feels at first.

[silvermist99]

are you joking?

a little but not really.
from a slow roll 2-15km/h. If the car is not standing still at less than 2-3km/h I use 2nd.

a real quick clutch slip at 2-15km/h near idle rpm can be done real quick and smooth, requires far less precision than putting it bak in notchy 1st.

[Fobio]

no.
i mean from a slow roll 2-15km/h. If the car is not standing still at less than 2km/h I use 2nd.

sure, with the stock mapping, I try to get out of 1st and 2nd as soon as I can...with a remapped throttle, I can ride 2nd all day long down the DVP on the commute and my head wouldn't snap into my steering wheel if I let off...

[silvermist99]

sure, with the stock mapping, I try to get out of 1st and 2nd as soon as I can...with a remapped throttle, I can ride 2nd all day long down the DVP on the commute and my head wouldn't snap into my steering wheel if I let off...

sometimes i miss those neck snapping massages :D

[Jon2000]

Things have improved a lot over the last couple weeks. I find I have to be really smooth and easy when coming off the gas and when pushing the clutch in to avoid jerkiness. Adding a touch more throttle, again very smooth,then releasing the throttle smooth as the clutch is pushed in seems to slow down the rpm drop while changing gears. I'm at the point now where I'm clutching out and adding a bit of throttle in first gear to get the car moving then keep clutching out slowly while gradually adding throttle to even things out. I'm punching the gas less on hills now too as I'm getting used to the touchy throttle. I installed my Cobb SRI yesterday which has really stepped up the fun factor. Next to install: Ford Motocraft full synthetic tranny fluid and a JBarone shift plate and shifter bushings.

[horto]

Things have improved a lot over the last couple weeks. I find I have to be really smooth and easy when coming off the gas and when pushing the clutch in to avoid jerkiness. Adding a touch more throttle, again very smooth,then releasing the throttle smooth as the clutch is pushed in seems to slow down the rpm drop while changing gears. I'm at the point now where I'm clutching out and adding a bit of throttle in first gear to get the car moving then keep clutching out slowly while gradually adding throttle to even things out. I'm punching the gas less on hills now too as I'm getting used to the touchy throttle. I installed my Cobb SRI yesterday which has really stepped up the fun factor. Next to install: Ford Motocraft full synthetic tranny fluid and a JBarone shift plate and shifter bushings.

do the rear motor mount next, it will help a lot... i was pretty happy when i did it and switched to synthetic tranny fluid at the same time.

[jaws]

Practice makes perfect. I've been driving stick for a long time and I still goof up occasionally. It will get easier with time, and eventually you'll be able to jump into any car and drive it regardless of how whacky the clutch feels at first.

You don't need an AP or anything else to smooth out the throttle, just some practice. You should be able to fully let out the clutch without more than 1000rpm of throttle "feathering", it really is just a balancing act between your two feet. As you let out the clutch more give some gas to compensate for the engine trying to bog. Giving advice on how to do this right is like trying to write down how to balance while doing a wheelie on a bike. You will learn and you will get better as long as you focus on getting better. Then sooner or later you won't even being paying attention to what your feet are doing as it will happen automatically.

Good luck and have lots of patience

[spd frk]

I am lost. The car will start from a stop in 2nd gear. So why do you need first unless you are leaving a stop. You should be able to let out hte clutch in 2nd without any slipping from very low road speed (like 5km/h) and get going anyways.

[Jon2000]

I only use 1st from a stop. I notice that the clutch is much easier to manipulate when it's warmer out like today (2degC). When it's colder the clutch seems to grab hard then let go as I'm trying to give gas and ease it out ...doesn't seem to want to ease out smooth - seems very abrupt then the rpm's drop. I hope there's nothing wrong with my clutch. This morning was rough and jerky then I drove it at lunch and it was more smooth.

[Fobio]

I tell you...and it's hard to explain until you drive one, but the Balance Shaft Delete (BSD) kit takes care of some...well, for me , most, of what you're talking about.

the balance shaft assembly is there to counter the second order vibrations inherent in I4-engines...someone with a mech eng degree will be able to better explain it than I, but it's basically for comfort as customers will hear/feel this vibration and think the engine is shaking itself apart...and yes, with the balance shaft deleted, you can feel this vibration...

the assembly kind of acts like a "brake" for the engine...so when you let off, this assembly will pull the revs down unnaturally fast...compared to the 2.5L Duratec V6 I had driven, which hung its rpms (another unnatural feeling), this seemed to be an improvement, but puttering around the streets with the BS assembly pulling your revs down too quickly, it makes slow driving jerky...

The BSD is not reversible...you can't really remove it and put it back in...it is really unnecessary for performance and only there for comfort in my opinion...there are also other benefits to it (increased oiling capacity, adding a baffle to keep oil in the pan and lines fed, etc.) but I STRESS, it is not really reversible, so do at your own risk...

you can find out a lot about balance shaft delete on mazdaspeedforums.org...

[m_bisson]

I have a 2006 GX and when the car was new the RPMs came down very fast once the clutch was pressed, but now i'm at about 65000k and the RPMs will hover at whatever they are when I press the clutch, and then slowly come down. Is there some sort of maintenance that needs to be done? or is that normal?

ps. sorry for hijacking the thread :P