The Pilot's Thread

[stevenma188]

So I should start this off, a thread for all the pilots and aviation fanatics to come together and discuss flying.

I am a private pilot currently working towards my commercial/multi/IFR.

Right now I've got ~140hrs total time.

I started my training on the Diamond DA-20 C1, but have now moved up to the Diamond DA-40 XLS. What a beaut that thing is.
Starting next year, I will begin my multi-IFR on the Diamond DA-42 Twin Star.

Based out of CYXU.

I also have my Glider license.

[slam525i]

Let's see. I got my recreational in 1997, private in 1998 at CYHM flying club. Got just over 80 hours on the books in 152s and 172s... and then between 2001 and 2009 I accumulated a total of ZERO hours. Yup, I ran out of money.

I started again late last year, doing the mandatory flight review in some tail draggers (Good Lord those things are fun). I'm planning on getting and keeping current, renting 152s and 172s. I want to get my night and instrument rating next.

Anyone know where to rent for cheap? Or recommendations on where to get my night and IFR (for cheap)? The Hamilton Flying Club doesn't exist physically anymore.

Steve, you're planning on going into the airlines?

[stevenma188]

Glad to see you're getting back into it. Taildraggers are AWESOME. Through my gliding experience I've gotten rides in Scouts and Citabrias and they are soo much fun to fly. What are you flying? Super Cub?

To rent for cheap, I've heard Brampton is really cheap, although its also sketchy, but I have no personal experience there. My renting experience pretty much consists of Empire Aviation/Maylan/Diamond Flight Centre, which is essentially the same operation. I have gone up for flights with friends at KW Flight Centre, Guelph Airpark, as well as Aero Academy in London. I consider Empire/Maylan/DFC the same category, with super strict rules, but very nice (sometimes brand new) airplanes. KW seems to be pretty strict to from my experience, and their planes are well maintained. Guelph is fairly relaxed once they get to know you, and their planes are decent (as far as 172s/152s go). Aero is very relaxed, but their planes are not well maintained, and they seem to constantly get CADORed.

Hopefully, after I graduate from school, I will go flight bush, instruct, or if I'm lucky, get into some airline in asia or something flying right seat. We'll see where available jobs lead me when I'm there. Ultimately, I would like to work for a major carrier first as a pilot, then later on move into management/HR/training.

[STeeLy]

I have always wanted to be a pilot. But I think I'm going to slowly work towards that after I'm done University. At the very least get up to a Private License with Multi Engine and IFR

[stevenma188]

^It almost feels like thats the way to go. I really love flying, but am not looking forward to the job prospects when I graduate. That plus having ridiculous amount of debt from flight training, and then having to make ends meet working a job that pays less than minimum wage.

[slam525i]

Steve, the costs outside the GTA are so much lower, but driving to and from downtown costs almost as much as the difference in rental price. :-(

Steely, you should do it. It's relatively cheap to get your recreational (write the private exam though, it applies for both). There's a reason they say it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on and people watching. I wouldn't go for a multi-engine rating though. Multies cost at least 50% more to run and a high performance single will give you comparable performance for almost half the maintenance and fuel costs. (It's my goal in life to buy a Mooney one day.)

[stevenma188]

Ya, unless you are flying as a career, there is not really too much point to having a multi rating. However, it is a relatively easy to obtain rating, and multis are just soo much cooler.

[slam525i]

Steve, mind if I ask how old you are? (i.e. where in life are you?) Problem with airline jobs is you really need to build seniority. I should have done it eons ago when I first got my license. Now it's too late; I'm almost 30 and knee deep in a PhD, earning less than minimum wage by far, hence the inability to rent airplanes. :-(

[STeeLy]

Steely, you should do it. It's relatively cheap to get your recreational (write the private exam though, it applies for both). There's a reason they say it's the most fun you can have with your clothes on and people watching. I wouldn't go for a multi-engine rating though. Multies cost at least 50% more to run and a high performance single will give you comparable performance for almost half the maintenance and fuel costs. (It's my goal in life to buy a Mooney one day.)

By the time I do the multi after private license, I'd probably had saved up enough to afford it (considering I should be getting a job after I get out from unviersity).

I'll see everything when the time gets closer, I still have quite a ways to go.

[slam525i]

Steely, same question as to Steve, how old are you? You're in undergrad? Which uni? I've always been disappointed that UofT doesn't have a flying club. You'd figure with so many students, we would be able to scratch up enough interest to start one, at least to buy some bulk block time.

[stevenma188]

I'm 20, currently in 3rd yr of university at Western in their Commercial Aviation Management program. Our program integrates the flying with school.

[condor888000]

I did my GPL and PPL through cadets. Did the glider course in 2004 out in Debert NS, and power in 2005 at Gatineau. Haven't logged any PIC time since then, though I did log some dual time with my buddy in some 172's. First it was a money thing, and then when things finally started to turn around, I got into autocross and lapping. I've since decided that I find that far more enjoyable than flying, so thats where my priorities lie. Still was an awesome experience, and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

[stevenma188]

Ya I did the cadet thing too. Glider at CRGS 06, Power in 07 at Empire Aviation.

[slam525i]

You glider pilots get my respect. The idea of flying something with no source of thrust ON PURPOSE scares the crap out of me. In terms of insanity, it's just 1 step short of jumping out of a perfectly good airplane with a bag of cloth strapped to your back.

Steve, I'm so jealous. I wish I could have made a career of flying. I had the chance 12 years ago and I missed it. I'm sure if I were flying right seat in regional turbo props for minimum wage I wouldn't think the same thing, the grass being greener on the other side and all that.

[condor888000]

It's actually not that bad, especially with air cadets. They boil it down to the bare minimum, basically circuits, air tows, and landings. Then again, they have to, considering they're teaching a bunch of 16 year olds what to do. I never got out to a proper soaring club, so I'm not sure what civvie gliding was like. Too bad, but such is life.

[stevenma188]

I have gone out a couple of times with friends to civvie gliding clubs. I am proud to say that my longest flight was 2hrs in a Schweizer 2-33A, which flies as well as a barn door.

[STeeLy]

Steely, same question as to Steve, how old are you? You're in undergrad? Which uni? I've always been disappointed that UofT doesn't have a flying club. You'd figure with so many students, we would be able to scratch up enough interest to start one, at least to buy some bulk block time.

21 at Carleton doing my undergrad.

I've skimmed through the list of clubs but I don't recall seeing a flying one.

[rktsci]

I'm not a pilot but I do work in the aviation industry as an engineer with a company at Pearson that does special mission modifications predominantly using Dash 8's. Ive also served as a Flight Test Engineer on a number test flights which is a lot of fun and allows me to fly jump seat with the flight crew. I've taken one of those Introductory Pilot's Lesson out at Buttonville which was a lot of fun but I've never really been able to come up the cash to complete the PPL.

[SL3VIN]

Hey this thread just caught my attention and it was always my childhood dream to become a commercial pilot.

So I have a few questions... what are the steps in becoming a commercial pilot, how long does it take until you can work for an airline, around how much does all this training cost?

I was thinking of maybe doing this as a hobby, I was always fascinated with aviation.

[stevenma188]

Well the road to a commercial pilot is long and tough.

First step is getting the license, which involves at least 200 hours of flight time. That is the bare minimums, and a lot of people take more time due to delays etc. Then you are now a pilot that give you the ability to fly airplanes for money, but you are at this point still limited to flying single engine small Cessnas etc. A lot of people take the time within that 200 hrs to also get their multi-engine license and Instrument Flight Rule (IFR) license, allowing you to fly airplanes with more than 1 engine, and to fly solely based on the instruments. All of this training will cost ~$70K or so (That is what I'm paying for my program).

So now let's say you got all those licenses, you can now work for a small operator flying bush up north, instructing here,all for extremely low wages. After you get ~1000 to 1500 hrs, you can start applying towards major airlines. Even if you are lucky enough to get on, you still start at the bottom of the rung, making not very much money. Finally, after working for a while you will move onto bigger airplanes, first starting out in the right seat (co-pilot) and eventually becoming a captain.



As for flying as a hobby, you definitely should look into it. A Private Pilot's License requires only 45hrs of flight time, and will cost ~$10k. However, you can look into getting a Recreational Permit, which is much cheaper and easier to obtain, but only allows you to carry 1 passenger. You can also look into gliding. It will cost around $6K-8K, and I find it one of the most rewarding type of flying I've done.It's flying down to the most basic and simple form. Plus, there is nothing compared to coming back down from a long flight, all without the help of an engine. You should really go in and check out the local flying clubs or gliding clubs (York Soaring and SOSA are the main ones in this area).

[fini]

fly bush. that's where the big bucks are at!

[stevenma188]

^Relatively big bucks lol.

The problem is it's seasonal. I guess if I do fly bush, I'll be on EI during the winter.

[fini]

^Relatively big bucks lol.

The problem is it's seasonal. I guess if I do fly bush, I'll be on EI during the winter.

but you build seniority much quicker flying bush since attrition is so high.
and if you aren't an idiot. which i'm assuming you are not :) then your employer will like you, and want to keep you probably 10 months or more of the year.

salary wise it's the fastest way to jump.

and if you REALLY wanna make the big bucks. fly a helicopter in the bush. lol

[stevenma188]

Except a helicopter license is like 4x more expensive.

Who knows, I'm still hoping to get a job over-seas after graduation. Seems like the asian market is still booming.

[slam525i]

Bush flying is dangerous enough. Helicopter bush flying seems just plain nuts to me.

[fini]

Bush flying is dangerous enough. Helicopter bush flying seems just plain nuts to me.

haha.... well of course you got to have the chops for flying too. It's nothing like flying regular air liners that's for sure. Some people can't handle it. and some have died from it.


Except a helicopter license is like 4x more expensive.

Who knows, I'm still hoping to get a job over-seas after graduation. Seems like the asian market is still booming.

if you've got languages and other stuff up your sleeve, you might be taken right after grad!

[STeeLy]

if you've got languages and other stuff up your sleeve, you might be taken right after grad!

Cathay Pacific FTW!

[tucci]

Im an engineer with a company in the hammer.. 727,737 and dc10 type aircraft..

[Dreamliner]

Im an engineer with a company in the hammer.. 727,737 and dc10 type aircraft..

I know which one :chuckle:chuckle

[gabbygenier]

planes are fun for a bit but i think it gets boring really. helicopters is where its at guys haha.

[slam525i]

tucci, Are you the guys that left an engineless 727 outside the flying club for years? (It was a long time ago, when the flying club still existed)

Steely, you must be Asian. You should check out PPRUNE. So many of the CX guys there are unhappy with CX management.

[Fobio]

I would give up racing to learn flying...hopefully, I don't have to, and can responsibly afford both.

I want to get into ultra-lights...there's a niche industry doing aerial photography...and I think it might be a good way to retire into some sort of tourism gig here or overseas.

Air cadets would've been the most affordable way for the teens to start...I never had the chance, esp with my Coke-bottle bottom prescription...lol...

any info on ultra-lights?

[STeeLy]

tucci, Are you the guys that left an engineless 727 outside the flying club for years? (It was a long time ago, when the flying club still existed)

Steely, you must be Asian. You should check out PPRUNE. So many of the CX guys there are unhappy with CX management.

Wow, that I didn't know... I'll check that out and see what they say

and yes, I'm a HKer through and through

[condor888000]

I would give up racing to learn flying...hopefully, I don't have to, and can responsibly afford both.

Having done both...I'll take racing every day. Flying is fun, but there is not any real challenge once you get the basics. If there is a challenge, you just pray you get it down soft. Performance driving, even just autocross or lapping is much more challenging. You can do it well easily, but to win or beat previous times you need skill and concentration.

[tucci]

I know which one :chuckle:chuckle

haha I knew someone would know..


tucci, Are you the guys that left an engineless 727 outside the flying club for years? (It was a long time ago, when the flying club still existed)

Steely, you must be Asian. You should check out PPRUNE. So many of the CX guys there are unhappy with CX management.

[tucci]

Hey slam525i..

yea that was us, it was 727-100, pretty old bird that was cut up..

[slam525i]

planes are fun for a bit but i think it gets boring really. helicopters is where its at guys haha.

Helicopters only fly because they're so fscking ugly that the Earth repels them. Single engine helicopters scare the crap out of me.

[STeeLy]

Oh... Helicopters are a blast to ride in... Took a helicopter tour when I was in Guam.

I'd want to try in one of those full glass cockpit helicopters where you can see underneath you, now that would be awesome

[slam525i]

If you put me in a helicopter with a clear view below, you'd see a yellow puddle sloshing around my feet...

[kramr]

ahhhhh, helicopters are awesome. Been in both military and non military helicopters and loved every minute of it!! I love flying regardless of what I'm in though!!

[gabbygenier]

haha your just complaining casue ur stuck in an airplane and not a helicopter

helicopters are the best. can do alot more with them.

[STeeLy]

haha your just complaining casue ur stuck in an airplane and not a helicopter

helicopters are the best. can do alot more with them.

Just can't chase a fighter Jet...

[stevenma188]

WOOOOO! Had my first night solo last night! All I have left after getting my night rating is to do a VFR Nav prog, then CPL Flight Test!

[slam525i]

I did my first night flight a few weeks ago too. Really pretty, but in terms of skill, not much required. If anything, it's easier than during the day; the runway is more obvious and there's no convective turbulence. I already have 9 instrument hours so I just need 1 more, and then a build up night hours. Then onto VFR Over-the-top and IFR!

Steve, where are you flying out of? And how much is it? I'm flying out of Durham Flight Center but they don't have IFR single engine, so I'll need to shop around once I'm done my night and VFR OTT.

[stevenma188]

I'm flying out of Diamond Flight Centre at CYXU. I'm with the UWO aviation program. In terms of IFR, I know Brampton does it for cheap (I think its Multi-IFR, but I'm sure you can do single-IFR). I know Kingston has the 1 weekend Multi rating thing going on too.

[slam525i]

Ugh. Everywhere is expensive, and anywhere cheap is so far out of the GTA it wouldn't cover the gas anyway. Damn it.

I don't think I'll ever get an multi-rating. I could never afford to run an multi-engine airplane.

[stevenma188]

Would it be even worth it for you to get an IFR rating? I thought those expired like every year (or is that only Multi-IFR), and if you are just bombing around taking people up for rides etc, you would want to do it on nice days anyways.

[slam525i]

Well, one day, eventually, I hope to get rich enough to buy a high performance single and use it as transport, in which case getting an IFR makes it a much more practical tool. IFR expires every 24 months but only requires a flight test to be renewed and can be done within 24 months of expiry, so, we'll see. It's a ways to go yet for me.

[stevenma188]

Ah fair enough. Cirrus SR-22? *drooollllll*

[slam525i]

I don't know... The Cirrus is attractive, but a Mooney is a Mooney, and old M20s can be had relatively cheap. Something about retractable gears just make the airplane faster and more serious in my mind, even if not in reality. It's like an old school Porsche 911 in my mind.

[stevenma188]

But Mooneys are BRUTTTALLLLL for maintanence, hence their relatively cheap selling price. Not gonna lie though, the Mooney is friggin slick.