by hand or with a buffer?

[m_bisson]

what method do you use and why? Also mention the product you apply, and maybe remark about how it performs.

[Donutz]

I have only waxed / polished by hand. Waxing by hand is fine, but polishing sucks. I'm in the market for the PC 7424xp now because my wifes car has bad swirls in it.

[SonicBoy]

By Hand for those ackward places like the front and rear bumper. PC for the large panels.

Find your supplies from e-shine.ca. Research at autogeek.net.

So many products and everyone has their own favourite. You can ask Chris at e-shine for some advice.

[hatthi]

Some great info here:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/index.php

[loganm3]

Ive burned through paint on my old car with a buffer because I was inexperienced. I now always hand buff.....you save the environment, build muscles and never burn through paint hand buffing!

[mazdilla]

When I bought my car, the paint was perfect. The dealer told me it was going to be prepped by 'one of the best.' He didn't tell me it was 'one of the best' chimps he could find at the time and my car was a cluster-f*ck of swirls when I went to pick it up. It looked like it was buffed with a grinder and sand. I freaked.

Cure...

All Mothers products, The Mothers 3 step system and Mothers Scratch Remover, all by hand -

Step one:
Strip the car with Mother's Wax Remover and Cleaner (Step 1 on Bottle)

Step Two:
Do the whole car with Mothers Scratch Remover - $14

Step Three:
Back to Step one again, as you have to remove all the wax deposited by the scratch remover (Mothers Step 1 Wax Remover and Cleaner) - $13

Step Four:
Apply Mothers Glaze and Swirl Remover/Filler (Step 2 on bottle) - $14

Step five:
Apply Mothers Liquid Carnuba Wax (Step 3 on bottle) - $28

You can go about 6 weeks using Mothers Quick Detailer and then have to do Mothers Step 2 & 3 again come mid-summer. Then Mothers Steps 1, 2, and 3 in the fall.

The car pops!

Then come mid-winter your car will look like sh*t and you'll want to sell it in the spring, or find some poor clueless chimp and kick him in the ass.

[m_bisson]

In the past i've done turtle wax (paste not liquid) both by hand and with a machine... I got decent results either way, but it seemed like the machine took longer. Probably because I didn't know what I was doing. I've never done anything other than wax though. Should I be concerned with polishes and stuff too?

[mazdilla]

In the past i've done turtle wax (paste not liquid) both by hand and with a machine... I got decent results either way, but it seemed like the machine took longer. Probably because I didn't know what I was doing. I've never done anything other than wax though. Should I be concerned with polishes and stuff too?

I was sitting in the Legion one day at the BS table talking shop (school teacher stuff), when a little old lady, who happened to be a retired school teacher, piped up out the blue and intervened in the converstaion by saying, "You can't polish sh*t." After we picked ourselves up off the floor, we bought her a beer.

So, in answer to your question: Yes, you should be concerned with the base point of your project, which in this case is your paint and clear. If you start with sh*t, you are simply wasting your time, money, and effort, and you'll still end end up with sh*t, albiet a little bit shinier with beautifully highlighted swirls. To achieve best results, I've found that you absolutely need to remove all of the old wax and start over. I have found that the Mothers three step system is by far the best out there. It is a bit expensive, but is worth every penny. It really does work.

Oh ya, and buy a California Duster too ($25) at CT. The big one, not the little crappy one that's on sale this week.

[ericssonfan]

I've waxed both by random orbital buffer and by hand. I find the buffer is more time consuming and tedious as you can't reach the nooks and crannies. So I find myself alternating between buffer and hand waxing. I think it also depends on the type of wax too. Paste will require more elbowgrease. The first few times I used the machine, I got too close to the plastic parts and now have white waxy areas I can't get rid of near the side mirror and underneath the rear bumper.

What do you guys think of Nu Finish car polish? Don't they have the commercial of the car paint being lit up with a match to show it's protective powers?

[hatthi]

I would stick with a better class of products such as Optimum, Klasse, Poorboys, Pinnacle, Wolfgang & Meguiars professional produtcs. These products are much better than the stuff you'll find at Canadian Tire or Walmart. It does cost more but is worth it.
Basic steps: Wash car, claybar, polish or pre wax cleaner, wax and/or sealant application.
Taping off plastic trim with blue painters tape will save you some work when using a polisher.

Here's some examples:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-details-before-after/111802-make-shine-5-coats-opti-seal-cwp-mazdaspeed3-wet.html

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-details-before-after/126488-mis-true-red-mazdaspeed3.html

[mazdilla]

I've waxed both by random orbital buffer and by hand. 1) I find the buffer is more time consuming and tedious as you can't reach the nooks and crannies. So I find myself alternating between buffer and hand waxing. I think it also depends on the type of wax too. Paste will require more elbowgrease. The first few times I used the machine, I got too close to the plastic parts and now have white waxy areas I can't get rid of near the side mirror and underneath the rear bumper.

2) What do you guys think of Nu Finish car polish? Don't they have the commercial of the car paint being lit up with a match to show it's protective powers?


1) You are absolutely correct. There is no replacement for the opposing digit on this primate (thumb).... and the frontal lobe.

2) Circus act.

[hatthi]

It's more important to use a machine during the polishing/cleaning stage. This is where the advantage is when compared to using elbow grease. Wax doesn't need to be rubbed on with a machine.

[mazdilla]

You're right in a sense, hatthi..., but if one uses a buffer to polish the wax, one simply removes the wax that was so arduously applied by hand in the first place... Do not apply the wax with a machine. The final stage should always be done by hand.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the cleaning/polishing stage.

The cleaning stage is step 1, and the polishing stage is 'what'?

As for the other comments on product choice, my take on that is that after 40 years of car modding/building/restoring/racing/smashing/(healing)/showing/collecting, Mothers is #1.

Period.

[ShortBus]

You're right in a sense, hatthi..., but if one uses a buffer to polish the wax, one simply removes the wax that was so arduously applied by hand in the first place... Do not apply the wax with a machine. The final stage should always be done by hand.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the cleaning/polishing stage.

The cleaning stage is step 1, and the polishing stage is 'what'?

As for the other comments on product choice, my take on that is that after 40 years of car modding/building/restoring/racing/smashing/(healing)/showing/collecting, Mothers is #1.

Period.

can you really be an expert if you don't know what polishing is or that you don't clay your car atleast twice a year?

[mazdilla]

can you really be an expert if you don't know what polishing is or that you don't clay your car atleast twice a year?

There's always a completely rude asshat who jumps in and puts his half-cent opinion about a post or the poster. WTF did I do to deserve your sh*thead off-topic comment?

I never claimed to be an expert.

I simply asked a question about what he meant by polishing in his procedure.

I'm simply an old fart, who knows well enough to ASK questions, provide answers when capable, and NOT give opinions; preferences maybe, but not opinions.

If I want your fackin opinion about me, I'll give it to you.

Fack off, you insulting fackin asshat.

__________________________________________________ ___

To the OP, I apologize for this rebuttal, but I'm not putting up with this sh*t from some snot-nosed disrespectful little brat hiding behind a keyboard.

I apologize to the Mods and threaders as well, so I ask that you please delete this post and his and we'll be done with it.

Thank you.

[ShortBus]

There's always a completely rude asshat who jumps in and puts his half-cent opinion about a post or the poster. WTF did I do to deserve your sh*thead off-topic comment?

I never claimed to be an expert.

I simply asked a question about what he meant by polishing in his procedure.

I'm simply an old fart, who knows well enough to ASK questions, provide answers when capable, and NOT give opinions; preferences maybe, but not opinions.

If I want your fackin opinion about me, I'll give it to you.

Fack off, you insulting fackin asshat.

__________________________________________________ ___

To the OP, I apologize for this rebuttal, but I'm not putting up with this sh*t from some snot-nosed disrespectful little brat hiding behind a keyboard.

I apologize to the Mods and threaders as well, so I ask that you please delete this post and his and we'll be done with it.

Thank you.

only difference between my post and yours, is mine isn't sugar coated with stories.

i have not seen one question in any of your posts in this thread and if you were not trying to construed some sort of expertise in your post you wouldn't bring up your 40 years of experience.

[m_bisson]

go away. i'm kicking both of you out of my thread.

Has anyone used Liquid Glass? This guy I work with wants to do my car with it for $50, which is a ridiculously cheap price considering the time involved...

[mazdilla]

go away. i'm kicking both of you out of my thread.

Has anyone used Liquid Glass? This guy I work with wants to do my car with it for $50, which is a ridiculously cheap price considering the time involved...

Thank you. I'm gone!

I'm with stupid.

:gone

BTW, before I leave and unsubscribe from this thread, you may want to check out some of $50 man's previous work.

Cheers!

[m_bisson]

$50 man has a sweet ride. It's good work.
If the liquid glass is a polish should I wax my car once he's done with it?

[hatthi]

go away. i'm kicking both of you out of my thread.

Has anyone used Liquid Glass? This guy I work with wants to do my car with it for $50, which is a ridiculously cheap price considering the time involved...

If you want a professional job done I'd consider contacting Keval from Make it Shine. He used to be a sponsor here. As far as liquid glass goes I wouldn't touch it. Just my opinion.

Currently I'm using Riccardo clay bars, Optimum Polish, Meguiars synthetic sealant, & Optimum Opti-Seal.

[ericssonfan]

1) You are absolutely correct. There is no replacement for the opposing digit on this primate (thumb).... and the frontal lobe.

2) Circus act.

Yeah I always thought that if you had to try to hard to convince your product is good like lighting your paint on fire to show it works, then it's a sham.

I really don't have much experiences with polish.. I always thought waxing was the last stage..

So wash, clay, wash, wax(machine or hand), polish? And what about sealant? Are there polishers out there that are also sealants?

Blue painters tape!!! Why didn't I think of that.. I still have nasty white marks on my plastic trim from fumbling with the buffer. haha

[hatthi]

Detailing is like a science these days. There are some many specialized products you can do anything you want. Machines are good at the paint cleaning/repairing phase. Depending on the condition of your paint and how many swirl marks and scratches you may have. You can easily just throw a coat of wax on a car and it'll look great. Unitl you wash it and then you'll see swirl marks again. This is why the polishing and cleaning stage is so important. Once you've gotten rid of the imperfections you can protect the smooth finish with a sealant and/or wax.
You are correct about using machines for the waxing stage. It's not needed. You're only protecting the paint, not cleaning it. So strength isn't needed.
Sealant is great for giving paint an extra protective barrier. Many like to layer waxes on top of sealant to give extra gloss also.
The last time I detailed my car I did the following: Riccardo clay bar, then Optimum polish (for swirl marks), Meguiars synthetic sealant, Optimum Opti-Seal.
Again, this is just my opinion. I'm by no means an expert, I've just done lots of reading. I'd check out the forums on Autopia.org. The more reading you do, the more knowledge you'll gain on the process.

[BMWWW]

I CAN speak from being a semi-expert/hobbiest, and the following guy, hatthi, know what's going on.

As with all things, its always best to educate yourself before embarking on something unknown, and absolutely critical before running your mouth and giving advice. I got to where I got to now with tedious reading on Autopia, and before I answer any questions, I always point them there.

1. No point AT ALL to polish a car without first changing how the swirls got there in the first place: Proper washing--you could bring the car into the chap in U.K that charges thousands for a detail, but if you don't wash the car properly, you're back to square one, 2 weeks later.


Detailing is like a science these days. There are some many specialized products you can do anything you want. Machines are good at the paint cleaning/repairing phase. Depending on the condition of your paint and how many swirl marks and scratches you may have. You can easily just throw a coat of wax on a car and it'll look great. Unitl you wash it and then you'll see swirl marks again. This is why the polishing and cleaning stage is so important. Once you've gotten rid of the imperfections you can protect the smooth finish with a sealant and/or wax.
You are correct about using machines for the waxing stage. It's not needed. You're only protecting the paint, not cleaning it. So strength isn't needed.
Sealant is great for giving paint an extra protective barrier. Many like to layer waxes on top of sealant to give extra gloss also.
The last time I detailed my car I did the following: Riccardo clay bar, then Optimum polish (for swirl marks), Meguiars synthetic sealant, Optimum Opti-Seal.
Again, this is just my opinion. I'm by no means an expert, I've just done lots of reading. I'd check out the forums on Autopia.org. The more reading you do, the more knowledge you'll gain on the process.


-cut-

So, in answer to your question: Yes, you should be concerned with the base point of your project, which in this case is your paint and clear. If you start with sh*t, you are simply wasting your time, money, and effort, and you'll still end end up with sh*t, albiet a little bit shinier with beautifully highlighted swirls. To achieve best results, I've found that you absolutely need to remove all of the old wax and start over. I have found that the Mothers three step system is by far the best out there. It is a bit expensive, but is worth every penny. It really does work.

Oh ya, and buy a California Duster too ($25) at CT. The big one, not the little crappy one that's on sale this week.

Can't agree that the Mother's is 'the best'. 'The best' is done with the right products, via machine. I don't advocate doing any polishing by hand, as its tedious, and you're better off just sealing it with a quality sealant/wax, and calling it a day.


I would stick with a better class of products such as Optimum, Klasse, Poorboys, Pinnacle, Wolfgang & Meguiars professional produtcs. These products are much better than the stuff you'll find at Canadian Tire or Walmart. It does cost more but is worth it.
Basic steps: Wash car, claybar, polish or pre wax cleaner, wax and/or sealant application.
Taping off plastic trim with blue painters tape will save you some work when using a polisher.

Here's some examples:

http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-details-before-after/111802-make-shine-5-coats-opti-seal-cwp-mazdaspeed3-wet.html

Yup. Nail on the head. At the end of the day, the more expensive stuff is CHEAPER. Reason being that you'll use less, use it less often, and save you time. And when you're talking about a $10-20 premium to begin with, the extra 4-5 months of durability is more than enough justification to reduce an hour's worth of waxing every month with the lesser-quality stuff.
http://www.autopia.org/forum/pro-details-before-after/126488-mis-true-red-mazdaspeed3.html


1) You are absolutely correct. There is no replacement for the opposing digit on this primate (thumb).... and the frontal lobe.

2) Circus act.
Applying liquid sealant (Collinite 845 is my preference) is very quick. You'll waste a lot more product, but it can be very quick when employing the apply to panel-keep machine one method. Not worth the hassle though, I hand wax/seal myself.


can you really be an expert if you don't know what polishing is or that you don't clay your car atleast twice a year?
Claying your car isn't really necessary twice a year. FWIW, I clayed my 2007 Mazda 6 once when I got it, and once this spring, because I always had some layer of Collinite 845, and never had gritty paint to begin with. Its silver to, so that works in my advantage with swirls. So long as its clean and got Zaino/Collinite on it, you can't even see thw swirls in sunlight. :thumbsup


go away. i'm kicking both of you out of my thread.

Has anyone used Liquid Glass? This guy I work with wants to do my car with it for $50, which is a ridiculously cheap price considering the time involved...
Expensive. I can wash, dry, spray wax a car in 40 minutes with 2 people. That product is really 'sub-par'.


$50 man has a sweet ride. It's good work.
If the liquid glass is a polish should I wax my car once he's done with it?

The more you touch your car, the more swirls you'll have. That's why you choose a long lasting wax/sealant, and never touch the car unless with a quick detailer, or washing your car. I suggest people to NOT buy a california duster, and live with a light dusting. Or buy Finish Kare's 425 which has anti-static properties, and can also be used on LCD tv's, laptop screens, ect ect.



-G

[hatthi]

Nice write up BMWWW! The right wash process is very important to keep your paint looking clean. That way all your hard work on correcting the paint won't be lost. I typically spray the car down with a special dispensor that I fill with wash soap. After a spray down with this solution I then hose everything off and begin washing with a wool mit. The less grime and grit you have on your vehicle prior to a hand wash the better. I also try to use the 2 bucket method. One for soap and one for rinse. I also use a separate wash mit for the wheels. This will greatly reduce swirls. Again, do you research and see what the professionals/detailers use.

[m_bisson]

So if my car was picked up in march, should I skip the polish and go straight for a wax? It's still "like new" and has only been washed properly once (lack of access to a hose so I've been using coin-op). Or would it be worth polishing before waxing?

[Turok]

I've waxed both by random orbital buffer and by hand. I find the buffer is more time consuming and tedious as you can't reach the nooks and crannies. So I find myself alternating between buffer and hand waxing. I think it also depends on the type of wax too. Paste will require more elbowgrease. The first few times I used the machine, I got too close to the plastic parts and now have white waxy areas I can't get rid of near the side mirror and underneath the rear bumper.

What do you guys think of Nu Finish car polish? Don't they have the commercial of the car paint being lit up with a match to show it's protective powers?

I used Mother's back to black on black area of my mirrors and back lower bumper and it works fine. It also removes any white waxy residue.

I've used Nu Finish on my friends car, she had bought some when it was on sale last year. It makes the car shine but it it NOT a once a year wax by any means. Two weeks after I waxed her car with it, there was barely any water bedding when it rained. IMHO it's crap. Your better off using a cheap synthetic wax, then that crap.

[hatthi]

So if my car was picked up in march, should I skip the polish and go straight for a wax? It's still "like new" and has only been washed properly once (lack of access to a hose so I've been using coin-op). Or would it be worth polishing before waxing?

IMHO, I would start from scratch and do a complete detail. Very few dealers will clay,clean,seal and wax a new vehicle.

[SuDD3N5HiFT]

Nice write up BMWWW! The right wash process is very important to keep your paint looking clean. That way all your hard work on correcting the paint won't be lost. I typically spray the car down with a special dispensor that I fill with wash soap. After a spray down with this solution I then hose everything off and begin washing with a wool mit. The less grime and grit you have on your vehicle prior to a hand wash the better. I also try to use the 2 bucket method. One for soap and one for rinse. I also use a separate wash mit for the wheels. This will greatly reduce swirls. Again, do you research and see what the professionals/detailers use.

how do you guys dry your car after the hand wash? I personally use the absorber towel and blot, then finish off with a microfiber cloth.

[m_bisson]

chamois, but not near black stuff, just on paint. It seems to stain the chamois.

[hatthi]

After rinsing the car try taking the nozzle off your hose and pouring water over the whole car. This creates a sheeting action. Less water to wipe up. I'll then use a blower in all the cracks, crevices and wheels. Whatever's left I wipe up. Currently I'm using a Meguiars mocrofibre drying cloth.

[RBoy8]

To get water out of cracks and crevices, I always drive my car around the block. Also helps to dry off the brakes and get rid of any rust that's built up on the rotors. I use two chamois, one to dry the exterior body panels, and then another to dry all the door/trunk jambs.

I actually recently polished my car a couple of days ago with an orbital buffer with great results. I'm a just a Uni student on a budget so I settled with Turtle Wax "Scratch and Swirl Remover" polish from Canadian Tire... works good enough for me! For wax, I normally use Turtle Wax hardshall wax... still haven't done that yet lol. When I was purchasing polish, I was tempted to pick up that Nu Finish stuff because of how cheap it was.... after reading what you guys have to say about it, thank goodness I didn't get it! Was sorta weary when the bottle said "No Buffing Required" :chuckle I actually find an orbital buffer way quicker than by hand..... but then again, my car is pretty square so maybe it's easier to reach certain areas. :P

Not the best stuff out there, but it's good enough for me! :)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll172/RBoy8/Car%20Stuff/DSC00729.jpg?t=1273214049

If it's anything like the Turtle Wax Colour Cure polish I used for the last two years, then this polish should hopefully last me 4-ish months before needing another polish.

[m3zoomzoom]

To get water out of cracks and crevices, I always drive my car around the block. Also helps to dry off the brakes and get rid of any rust that's built up on the rotors. I use two chamois, one to dry the exterior body panels, and then another to dry all the door/trunk jambs.


yes, driving around the block helps dry the car a little but i would advise against doing that BEFORE you've hand dried your car because any dirt/debris you pick up along the way can get scratched into your paint when you try to dry it

[hatthi]

^^^ +1 ^^^

[craigrodrigues88]

I actually work in a detailing shop, and can say with complete confidence that if you know how to use a buffer properly the results will be much better than polishing by hand. It WILL take longer, but just like most things that are amazing, it takes more time. You definitely DO NOT use a machine for waxing as most pads will just end up cutting the clear anyways instead of sealing it. As for the products I use, I have tried a lot of different waxes from turtle wax ICE products to Meguires, to NuFinish, and my preference is Meguires. I want to try Zaino next because I hear that it is simply amazing. The trick with the wax is to let it dry on the car nice and hard to make sure that is fills all those cuts from the pad you used on the polisher.
These are the steps I usually take(for exterior);
1. Wash car top to bottom(rims last)
2. Clay bar
3.Rinse
4.Cleaner Wax
5.Cutting creme with a wool pad (machine)
6.Less abrasive polish with a light polishing pad (machine)
7.Wax by hand, and taken off by hand


The trick when applying the polish and using a buffer, is to make sure that your application pad is damp, not wet! This will ensure that you dont get dust flying around everywhere in your door jams and windows! Set aside a big chunk of your day to do it. Because like I said before, it takes a lot of time but the results are definitely worth it!

Hatthi, nice sig...my car made it in! SCORE! lol

[BMWWW]

I actually work in a detailing shop, and can say with complete confidence that if you know how to use a buffer properly the results will be much better than polishing by hand. It WILL take longer, but just like most things that are amazing, it takes more time. You definitely DO NOT use a machine for waxing as most pads will just end up cutting the clear anyways instead of sealing it. As for the products I use, I have tried a lot of different waxes from turtle wax ICE products to Meguires, to NuFinish, and my preference is Meguires. I want to try Zaino next because I hear that it is simply amazing. The trick with the wax is to let it dry on the car nice and hard to make sure that is fills all those cuts from the pad you used on the polisher.
These are the steps I usually take(for exterior);
1. Wash car top to bottom(rims last)
2. Clay bar
3.Rinse
4.Cleaner Wax
5.Cutting creme with a wool pad (machine)
6.Less abrasive polish with a light polishing pad (machine)
7.Wax by hand, and taken off by hand


The trick when applying the polish and using a buffer, is to make sure that your application pad is damp, not wet! This will ensure that you dont get dust flying around everywhere in your door jams and windows! Set aside a big chunk of your day to do it. Because like I said before, it takes a lot of time but the results are definitely worth it!

Hatthi, nice sig...my car made it in! SCORE! lol

Using a compound/polish combination that doesn't dust will solve those dusting problems. ;)

And Zaino's overhyped. It is good, but about 4 times more expensive (for the complete kit: Z2/Z5 + ZFX), for less durability when compared to Collinite 476. I DO however, like their wax-on-walk-away Z-CS.

[hatthi]

Hatthi, nice sig...my car made it in! SCORE! lol

Well then, the only proper thing to do would be to add my car into yours!!