any with oil frothing?

[lnatcbass]

I have a 2006 m3 2 litre 5 speed.

I've had what I believe is an ongoing problem since about 40k. I now have approx 73k.
If I check the oil shortly after shutting the engine off, I find a large number of bubbles on the dipstick.
I initially thought the dealer had overfilled the engine, (it appeared so) so I informed them and had the oil changed a little early. The problem, persisted and I asked them to check for possible head gasket leaks, even though the oil doesn't show any other evidence of contamination, and the cooling system appears full. Apparently, that was not an issue. The original dealership has maintained that it is not a problem and is consistent with other mazda 3's of that age. Mazda Canada basically said that if the dealership said that, then that must be the case, and were not willing to look into the problem further without me incurring the expense. It still appeared that they were overfilling the engine with oil so I went to a different dearlership. They agreed that the oil looked overfull, and it now seems to be at the correct level, however the oil is still frothing.

I've searched the internet and haven't found any other complaints from m3 owners, and from what I understand, you do not want your oil bubbling during operation, and in fact, oil contains additives to prevent that.

To be more specific, the frothing becomes more prominant as the oil ages, and persists even after very long drives (I was told by the first dealer it could be condensation in the engine and is common on short trips). If the engine is idling or shut off the bubbles dissappear within a few minutes. I would typically drive between 2500 to 3500 rpm.

My powertrain warranty will be up in about a year and I'd like to know whether or not I need to worry about this, and if this problem is going to reduce the life of the engine.

I was wondering if others have noticed this or have any ideas, and if so if they could reply. I'm wondering if perhaps I'm just completely out to lunch on this and worrying about nothing as the dearler implies.

thanks

[lnatcbass]

Actually, any input from anyone with an mazda 3 would be greatly appreciated. It may actually be helpful to me to hear from people with NO bubbles on the dipstick. That would help me to counter mazda's claim that it is completely normal.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

I have only had bubbles in my previous car... but it ended with a blown head gasket...

is the oil milky at all?

[lnatcbass]

thanks for the reply Jeff.
I don't see any evidence of contamination, no milky streaks. I did own an old aerostar that showed evidence of a head gasket leak, so I think I know what to look for. The dealership said that they also looked at the oil and it seemed fine. When the car has been shut off for a few minutes the oil looks perfect. They also checked the computer for fault codes, and none showed up. The dealership said that meant everything is good and not to worry about it, but I don't buy that. They didn't even drop the oil pan to look around, they said that'd be too expensive!

[m_bisson]

I'm not a doctor, but it sounds like rabies to me.

[RBoy8]

The seal for the dipstick is probably just bad.

[sarujo]

You could always do an engine oil analysis. Higher levels of coolant components would definitely show up or be higher than normal if the head gasket was spotty. This would be good evidence to show the dealer/Mazda.

Keep us posted.



thanks for the reply Jeff.
I don't see any evidence of contamination, no milky streaks. I did own an old aerostar that showed evidence of a head gasket leak, so I think I know what to look for. The dealership said that they also looked at the oil and it seemed fine. When the car has been shut off for a few minutes the oil looks perfect. They also checked the computer for fault codes, and none showed up. The dealership said that meant everything is good and not to worry about it, but I don't buy that. They didn't even drop the oil pan to look around, they said that'd be too expensive!

[lnatcbass]

I think I may know what my problem is. Sorry I haven’t posted lately but I forgot my password.

I thought I’d take some pictures to show Erin Mills Mazda before my next oil change.(Erin Mills Mazda is the other dealership I went to when I was getting nowhere with Oakville (now QEW) Mazda). As I said earlier, I had Erin Mills confirm the oil seemed overfull last time, and after the oil change I verified that Erin Mills filled the oil to the proper level. Even so the bubbles were still there. There goes the idea of the crankshaft churning things up.

It’s now been about 8k, so I’m bringing it back for another oil change. In hindsight, I probably should have brought it in sooner, but I kept getting told there is nothing wrong with the car, and I didn’t think of this before.

I'd like to show the photos but for some reason it says I can't show attachments. I have photos of the oil after 2 separate 25 min drives. I think it’s obvious from the from bubbles in the pictures that something isn’t right.

Another photo shows the oil level obviously way overfull, after sitting all night (yes I wiped the dipstick first). Remember that the oil level was fine after the last oil change, and I’ve added nothing.


Again, the oil doesn’t have the appearance of a head gasket leak, and the coolant level is fine. It’s obviously being contaminated with something that mixes easily with oil. Finally I thought perhaps gas, and from looking on line it seems likely from a leaky fuel injector. Today I decided to smell the dipstick oil and get some others to do the same .. everyone agreed it smells like gas.

There are no obvious driveability problems, fuel economy may be a little less than it used to be. It appears to me from the level that there could be ¾ of a litre of gas or so in the oil pan. Over the span of 4 months I think that would amount to a fairly small leak, perhaps not enough to trigger any fault codes.

What worries me is the long term damage done to the rings and cylinder wall from the affected cylinder, not to mention the rest of the engine being lubricated with gas thinned bubbly oil. Remember, I first noticed this problem prior to 40k and have been bringing it up at every oil change since with Oakville (QEW) Mazda. I now have 80k on the car.

I’m taking the car into Erin Mills Mazda for another try, I let you know the outcome.

If anyone has any thoughts about this I’d appreciate hearing from you. Also I'd like to know how to post my pictures, it may be useful for someone else with a similar problem

[TheMAN]

if you/anyone changing the oil fills it up with the 4.4l, then start up the engine, shut it off, then check it again, it will looks "low" and will proceed to top off another half a litre to make the dipstick level correct... this is a big NO... it will cause overfilling! I think mazda even issued a memo about this

the only thing anyone should do is fill the motor up with the specified amount, check to make sure there's really oil there, start it up and check for leaks... NOTHING ELSE!

[lnatcbass]

I was afraid that the dealership was overfilling, cause aeration, thats why I when to the other dealer. When I checked the oil after the last oil change it was after the car had been sitting for the night. The level looked good. Now the level is almost to the top of the bead (2006 dipstick). I've just read on this forum that m3's do get fuel in the oil, but it seems to me like the amount in mine can't be normal.

[TheMAN]

you'd have serious problems with the engine if you had that much fuel leaking to make it noticable in the dipstick
your engine is OVERFILLED WITH OIL... more than likely whoever changed your oil did exactly what I described... start engine up after fill, then check... the WRONG thing to do with at least this engine!

do yourself a favor... get the oil changed yourself or have a fellow member help you.... just put something cheap in like castrol gtx... don't have to bother with the filter if you changed the oil not long ago... fill it with EXACTLY 4.4l (4.5 quarts) and leave it alone... then check what happens

[lnatcbass]

I had the oil changed at the dealership and managed to collect a sample for a used oil analysis at Wearcheck. Wear metals seemed ok but they listed contamination by fuel dilution as MARGINAL. The fuel dilution was 2%, obviously not enough to account for the overfilling, just as TheMAN said. Interestingly enough, when I checked the oil level after the change this time I'd estimate it to be about a half litre overfull (again just as TheMan predicted). The level is at the top of the bevelled portion of the dipstick. (it has the beaded dipstick, not the standard blade style).
The used oil level seemed to be about 3/4 of a litre overfull (oil I took the sample from), so if the correct amount of oil was in the oil pan the fuel dilution would have been higher at 2.34%. This oil was used under ideal driving conditions as far as minimizing fuel dilution goes 1) no cold weather driving, it was used late April to September, 2) no idling, 3) very few short trips, its a half hour highway drive to work each way and almost always no traffic to contend with.
When looking at the first 4 pages of UOA's on Bob is the oil guy, it seems like the only fuel dilution higher than <0.5 was I believe 1.3 and 1.5 and these were both older vehicles with over 200,000 MILES as opposed to my 80,000 km. I believe that come winter that fuel dilution is going to increase above 2.34%.
The dealership said their mechanic said that the bubbles on the dipstick from the pictures I gave them is normal. The service advisor didn't have much to say about the 2% fuel dilution, I'm that doesn't sound like much to them.

PS I guess its the direct injection mazda speed 3 engines that supposedly have fuel dilution issues not my 2.0 litre

[TheMAN]

It's "normal" to THEM only because they are used to overfilling using the method as I explained before. If you jack up the car now, drain a bit out, then top off as necessary without ever starting the motor, it should correct the level and no more bubbles should occur. You should try it and I'm willing to bet money that will fix your problem. Doing this with the engine cold (at least sitting for a few hours) will ensure most of the oil is in the pan and not elsewhere.