New Brakes = PROBLEM

[PearlM3]

Hey all,

Tonight my friends dad switch all my brakes for me. I switched from OEM to the Magnum Cross drilled rotors, and hawk pads(got them from peter). Anyways, after switching them out they seem REALLY soft, like i need to put the pedal down quite a ways. Ive checked the fluid and it is fine. My question is: is it normal for aftermarket brakes to be so soft??

Chris

[S.F.W.]

Hey all,

Tonight my friends dad switch all my brakes for me. I switched from OEM to the Magnum Cross drilled rotors, and hawk pads(got them from peter). Anyways, after switching them out they seem REALLY soft, like i need to put the pedal down quite a ways. Ive checked the fluid and it is fine. My question is: is it normal for aftermarket brakes to be so soft??

Chris

I had the same issue with my Hawk pads for a few days. After bedding them properly, and waiting a few days, they started behaving as I expected.

[hit26k]

i went with aftermarket brakes and rotors on my old 3 and it was like that at the beginning. I found myself pushing the brake pedal all the way down but after a few days it was fine and went back to normal. I guess this is normal with aftemarket brakes. Does the same happen with OEM ones as well?

[Donutz]

You have to pump the brakes to build up pressure before you drive off after changing them. Then you need to bed them.

[PearlM3]

Did both!

[xxSlidewaysxx]

Did you bleed them too? Did you clean them before installation?

[taz4432]

There should be no need to bleed them just from changing pads & rotors. That being said, bedding is critical to getting proper performance although you said you did that. When I bed my brakes in there is smoke coming from all 4 wheel wells.

If you haven't changed your brake fluid this year, it might be a good excuse to swap the fluid and bleed the brakes at the same time to get a nice, firm braking feel.

As for cleaning the (braking surface of the) rotors, it's not really necessary - bedding them in will make quick work of anything on there.

[hastiej]

My dad always taught me to bleed any new break job a few times, drive, if there soft, bleed again. may not be "law" but, couldn't hurt.

[Tokic_o]

what exactly does "bed"ing your brakes mean? lol

[hastiej]

what exactly does "bed"ing your brakes mean? lol

I think he ment Bled lol.. i mean.. you could bed your breaks.. if you get them drunk enough...

[S.F.W.]

I think he ment Bled lol.. i mean.. you could bed your breaks.. if you get them drunk enough...

no, bed-ing brakes is the correct term.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml
"What is brake pad “bed-in” anyway?

Simply stated, bed-in is the process of depositing an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer, on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc. That's it. End of discussion. Ok, not really, but although bed-in is quite basic in definition, achieving this condition in practice can be quite a challenge, and the ramifications of improper or incomplete bed-in can be quite a-a-n-n-o-o-y-y-i-i-n-n-g-g."

[hastiej]

no, bed-ing brakes is the correct term.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml
"What is brake pad “bed-in” anyway?

Simply stated, bed-in is the process of depositing an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer, on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc. That's it. End of discussion. Ok, not really, but although bed-in is quite basic in definition, achieving this condition in practice can be quite a challenge, and the ramifications of improper or incomplete bed-in can be quite a-a-n-n-o-o-y-y-i-i-n-n-g-g."

well what do you know... "remove foot from mouth"

[Tokic_o]

no, bed-ing brakes is the correct term.
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_bedintheory.shtml
"What is brake pad “bed-in” anyway?

Simply stated, bed-in is the process of depositing an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer, on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc. That's it. End of discussion. Ok, not really, but although bed-in is quite basic in definition, achieving this condition in practice can be quite a challenge, and the ramifications of improper or incomplete bed-in can be quite a-a-n-n-o-o-y-y-i-i-n-n-g-g."

ahhh thanks ami !

[taz4432]

What Ami said. That's why it feels like there's no stopping power with new brakes and most places will tell you to 'take it easy' when they do brakes for you. They don't bed the brakes for you and most people have no idea what it even means to bed brakes. Although they will bed naturally through everyday use, bedding them 'properly' when new will definitely allow for the best performance and it will perform as soon as possible.

Bedding generally involves speeding up to a relatively high level of speed (I usually do somewhere between 80-100) and then braking really hard but not completely stopping and repeating quite a few times. They may also recommend one or two higher speed procedures like this (find an empty country road if you plan on doing anything like that or a big deserted parking lot) and then to finish, stop hard (from 80-100) and come to a complete stop. Park the car (ideally on level ground) and make sure to leave the parking brake disengaged. You are supposed to let the car sit until the rotors/brakes are 'cool to the touch' although on a summer day, that's going to take ages so just use common sense. The biggest worry is warped rotors (parking brake on hot rotors = warped rotors). Mind you, this is just a general outline of 'bedding' - each company recommends slightly different ways of doing it and each person will do it their own way.

Seeing smoking brakes/wheel wells is pretty awesome, especially when you pull up to a light and there's visible smoke from all 4 corners and other people are like @.@!!!

[dragons4life]

The thing about bedding is people do it right away when they have new brakes install, not knowing you should really wait couple of weeks to break in your rotors first. After your rotors are broking in with 300kms so on them then you should start with bedding the pads, but then again its up to you.

[taz4432]

The thing about bedding is people do it right away when they have new brakes install, not knowing you should really wait couple of weeks to break in your rotors first. After your rotors are broking in with 300kms so on them then you should start with bedding the pads, but then again its up to you.

What's the reasoning behind this? I've never read/heard this anywhere and any brake products you buy tell you once installed to bed them. I've yet to read one that says to drive ____kms first.

[Donutz]

Yep. I'd like to hear more about waiting x kms. I bed my brakes as soon as I leave the shop.

[taz4432]

I know with clutches you're supposed to take it easy for AT LEAST the first 500km:

"T: Why is clutch break-in so important?
S: We recommend 200 to 300 miles of mellow usage for our street discs. The purpose of breaking in a clutch is to engage the disc in a controlled, consistent manner to ensure the disc, pressure plate and flywheel all make full surface contact. It's also a chance for the friction material to experience normal heat cycles."

My thinking is that maybe someone sees it as similar to the clutch in that there's a friction surface (= rotor or flywheel) and a friction material (= clutch or brake pad) but with a brake you KNOW there will be (even) contact all around as long as you are pressing the brakes and not pulsing/pumping them. Other than that though, I can't think of much possible reasoning off the top of my head why one would wait to properly bed them.

[PearlM3]

Had the brakes bled today, turns out the guy doing my brakes had a brain fart at one point and opened the bleeder valve on one caliper. Anyways, after bleeding the brakes are better, still not as grippy as the oem, but great nontheless! Thanks for all the info guys.

[Donutz]

Grippiness will improve. Do a few good bedding sessions, or drive normally for a few weeks. After bedding you rotors should have a blue hue, should smell, and as taz pointed out, could be smoking. That is how you know it has been done correctly.

[dragons4life]

What's the reasoning behind this? I've never read/heard this anywhere and any brake products you buy tell you once installed to bed them. I've yet to read one that says to drive ____kms first.

For EBC brakes they do.

"Best procedure is to drive gently avoiding harsh braking unless in an emergency for first 100 miles. In the second 100 miles (up to 200) you can use gently increasing brake pressures when using the brakes.
Only after 200 miles urban driving (not 200 miles on a freeway where brakes are almost unused) should you attempt to apply heavy load and heat to the brakes. To do this final bedding on a QUIET ROAD in safe traffic apply the brakes and slow from 60 to 10 MPH five times in a row. Then drive slowly for a few minutes if safe to do so to allow the brakes to cool. Try to avoid coming to a rest whilst the brakes are heated.
A smell may be noticed from the warm brakes, this is normal. Repeat this procedure a second time after the brakes have TOTALLY cooled down. EBC pads get better with miles. Even after this bed in procedure it can take up to 1500 miles before the pads are at their best. In the meantime the pads will be good and safe but true potential not realised. EBC makes performance pads that last, they do not bed in within 5 minutes driving. Noises will be more likely during the first 1000-1500 miles use whilst this chemical bedding takes place."

[Donutz]

Hawk HPS

"After installing new brake pads, make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 30-35 mph applying moderate pressure.
Make an additional 2 to 3 hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph.
DO NOT DRAG BRAKES!
Allow 15 minutes for brake system to cool down.
After step 4 your new pads are ready for use."

[dragons4life]

Hawk HPS

"After installing new brake pads, make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 30-35 mph applying moderate pressure.
Make an additional 2 to 3 hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph.
DO NOT DRAG BRAKES!
Allow 15 minutes for brake system to cool down.
After step 4 your new pads are ready for use."

I know those instructions cause i have Hawk HPS as well with my EBC slotted rotors. For me i gotta first take it easy for a couple of 100kms on the rotors, and then after i can do a final Bedding of the pads with those instructions, cause i can put more pressure on the rotors as EBC says.

[dave2010GT]

This is a really helpful thread

[taz4432]

I have PowerSlot front Rotors, DBA4000 rear rotors, Hawk HPS front pads and Hawk HP+ rear pads and I bedded them as soon as I dropped the car of the jack/axle stands. But like I mentioned before, each company is different so yes, it's entirely possible (and true, seemingly) that EBC recommends taking it easy. I felt like I was gonna go through my windshield my car stopped so well when I had finished bedding them =P


This is a really helpful thread
Nothing makes me happier than to hear someone learned something new/gained some insight from this. So, glad to help!

[dragons4life]

I have PowerSlot front Rotors, DBA4000 rear rotors, Hawk HPS front pads and Hawk HP+ rear pads and I bedded them as soon as I dropped the car of the jack/axle stands. But like I mentioned before, each company is different so yes, it's entirely possible (and true, seemingly) that EBC recommends taking it easy. I felt like I was gonna go through my windshield my car stopped so well when I had finished bedding them =P


Nothing makes me happier than to hear someone learned something new/gained some insight from this. So, glad to help!


yeah its good to hear people learned things from this thread..also Taz shouldn't the more expensive DBAs be at the front lol.

[taz4432]

yeah its good to hear people learned things from this thread..also Taz shouldn't the more expensive DBAs be at the front lol.

Well, I didn't do them at the same time. I did my front at the beginning of summer and did my rears a few weeks ago. Different times, different budgets, different experiences to make my decision with. I had a lot more track time under my belt at the end of the summer and, I got a sweet deal on the DBAs so I went with them. Besides, I'd rather have the rears lock up first if it 's going to be one or the other.

[laksman91]

taz, why are you running HPS front and HP+ rear. Isn't that gonna screw up your braking bias? If anything it should be HP+ front, HPS rear, no?

[SomeGuy]

I have the same Magnum + HPS setup...and they absolutely sucked for the first few months of use, even after several attempts at bedding them in. However now they are superb...I think the magnum rotors could use a better job on machining from the factory, they are far too shiny and have all of those grooves on the surface (see pic). Now though they are dull and smooth (like OEM rotors) and my braking performance has improved 10 fold since when they were first installed.

http://someforum.net/2009/brakes.jpg