How long before you got completely comfortable?

[gotak]

Being a new manual driver I am feeling kind of disappointed that I still can't feel completely comfortable driving this car. I mean, yes I can get from point A to B usually without problems but after the accident where someone plowed into me because I wasn't accelerating fast enough up a hill (was trying to launch without clutch burn and bogged a bit). I feel pretty annoyed and honestly a bit upset I am still having trouble after 2 months.

So am I just needing more practice or is this car just going to be difficult for me to get the hang of? I hope I get used to it quickly cause it's would be nice to just enjoy driving.

[stevenma188]

I think you just need more practice to truely get the feel of the car. As well, from my understanding, the MS3 is not the easiest car to drive. Just be patient and keep at'er.

[gotak]

I think you just need more practice to truely get the feel of the car. As well, from my understanding, the MS3 is not the easiest car to drive. Just be patient and keep at'er.

I have to don't I lol. Not like I can return the car. Just a bit disappointed that's all how long it's taking.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

You picked a really difficult car to learn manual in. The clutch in the MS3 is akin to a racing spec clutch in terms of feel and engagement points and is literally almost on or off. By that, I mean, the engagement points and the fact that there is very little play in the clutch. Drive a regular MZ3 (an easy and very forgiving clutch set-up) and you will instance feel the difference and understand what I mean. There is just a lot more play in the clutch for engagement and release.

I've driven manual cars almost exclusively for just under 25 years. It still took me a good 3 months to get really and truly comfortable with the MS3 clutch. Now that I have, I adore it, as it reminds me of some of the rally sprint cars I used to drive recreationally back in the day.

It will take time, but you will get used to it. However, once you do, many other cars will feel very mushy in the clutch by comparison.

[optiklenz13]

^I agree. I learned driving on a manual car and have been driving for 15 years prior to getting my MS3 and when I drove it home, I felt like a noob.. LOL. It's definitely going to take a while.

[Clyde 2.0]

I found my 3 incredibly easy to drive right from the first shift in the test drive but before driving my 3 I had a Chevy Cavalier that had a HORRIBLE clutch so I had a bit of an advantage. I would say I'm quite comfortable driving my car and only have "stupid" stalls like when I go to idle in my driveway and I let the clutch out in gear but when I looked into buying a 2010 speed3 a month or so back I did find the clutch took a bit to get used to (especially 1st to 2nd). So don't feel bad if you haven't quite got the feel of the car yet, especially if this is your first standard car. I think the most important thing to do is not to panic and overthink what you are doing.

[gotak]

You picked a really difficult car to learn manual in. The clutch in the MS3 is akin to a racing spec clutch in terms of feel and engagement points and is literally almost on or off. By that, I mean, the engagement points and the fact that there is very little play in the clutch. Drive a regular MZ3 (an easy and very forgiving clutch set-up) and you will instance feel the difference and understand what I mean. There is just a lot more play in the clutch for engagement and release.

I've driven manual cars almost exclusively for just under 25 years. It still took me a good 3 months to get really and truly comfortable with the MS3 clutch. Now that I have, I adore it, as it reminds me of some of the rally sprint cars I used to drive recreationally back in the day.

It will take time, but you will get used to it. However, once you do, many other cars will feel very mushy in the clutch by comparison.

Sure hope so. I guess maybe I'll take twice as long.. :P oh well have to get used to it at some point.

[JStroke]

[QUOTE=Zoom Zoom Boy;691356]You picked a really difficult car to learn manual in. The clutch in the MS3 is akin to a racing spec clutch in terms of feel and engagement points and is literally almost on or off. By that, I mean, the engagement points and the fact that there is very little play in the clutch. Drive a regular MZ3 (an easy and very forgiving clutch set-up) and you will instance feel the difference and understand what I mean. There is just a lot more play in the clutch for engagement and release.


I agree with that, if feels like it is either on or off. Very crisp. Takes some getting used to, tough to make a smooth ride at first, but nice when you can get used to it.

[blackspeed3]

Thats strange to hear...I find my speed3 exceptionally easy to drive manual in. I love the way it engages and is very abrupt. But yes...other clutches do feel mushy compared to it...

[stillmatic]

The MS3 was my first manual car as well....it was a horrible experience for the first month and a half, but got progressively better. I now have the car for about 5 months and I feel very comfortable with it. However, I still make mistakes from time to time. I found the easiest way to deal with mistakes is not to make a big deal about it, and in turn I made less mistakes.....if that makes sense?

[gotak]

The MS3 was my first manual car as well....it was a horrible experience for the first month and a half, but got progressively better. I now have the car for about 5 months and I feel very comfortable with it. However, I still make mistakes from time to time. I found the easiest way to deal with mistakes is not to make a big deal about it, and in turn I made less mistakes.....if that makes sense?

Totally, like yoda said "there's no try" LOL.

[Kinn]

You picked a really difficult car to learn manual in. The clutch in the MS3 is akin to a racing spec clutch in terms of feel and engagement points and is literally almost on or off. By that, I mean, the engagement points and the fact that there is very little play in the clutch. Drive a regular MZ3 (an easy and very forgiving clutch set-up) and you will instance feel the difference and understand what I mean. There is just a lot more play in the clutch for engagement and release.

I've driven manual cars almost exclusively for just under 25 years. It still took me a good 3 months to get really and truly comfortable with the MS3 clutch. Now that I have, I adore it, as it reminds me of some of the rally sprint cars I used to drive recreationally back in the day.

It will take time, but you will get used to it. However, once you do, many other cars will feel very mushy in the clutch by comparison.

+1 - Like Zoom Zoom, I'm 20+ years on a manual. I find the speed a little tricky with the friction point being so abrupt. I still have an issue getting it moving in 1st completely smoothly…after that it's fine. It's much less forgiving then say… a civic clutch which is like butter, but when you get on it you'll appreciate the speeds firm clutch. It's more an issue for any passengers you have more then anything.

[SomeGuy]

I came from driving a regular 3 in manual for three and a half years to driving my speed 3 now and it's been only a few weeks and I feel pretty damn comfortable with it. The difference between the regular 3 and the speed aren't *that* much...the clutch is definitely heavier and has a bit shorter engagement in the speed, but it's not bad...either way I haven't had issues with the speed 3 clutch, it just takes practice!

[Fuyuzora]

You picked a really difficult car to learn manual in. The clutch in the MS3 is akin to a racing spec clutch in terms of feel and engagement points and is literally almost on or off. By that, I mean, the engagement points and the fact that there is very little play in the clutch. Drive a regular MZ3 (an easy and very forgiving clutch set-up) and you will instance feel the difference and understand what I mean. There is just a lot more play in the clutch for engagement and release.

This.

There's a good article on insideline (http://blogs.insideline.com/roadtests/2010/03/2010-mazdaspeed-3-trigger-pull.html) describing the MS3's clutch.

Admittedly, I have not had a chance to drive a MS3 (yet), but like yourself my Mazda is my first car with a manual transmission... The known "character" of the MS3 clutch was part of what influenced me to pick up a MZ3 to start.

After 1.5 months, I'm almost completely comfortable with the car now... Still a long ways to go in terms of achieving silky-smooth shifts, increasing the speed at which I climb through gears, and working on hill starts, but those aside the MZ3 was very quick to learn on.

I think in your case... Just keep it at, and don't be discouraged. You're learning on a tricky car, and mastering it without prior experience will be a testament to your efforts.

That and, as noted, once you can drive a MS3 you shouldn't have problems with anything else. :thumbsup

[Shawn]

Don't be afraid to give it some gas.
Your lucky you didn't have to learning on a 428 CobraJet. Very heavy clutch, and enough power to burn thru the clutch in one sitting, Or the tires, your choice. :huge smile

[Fack_Dude]

Dude, just step on it and go!!!! :thumbsup You will get use to it..

[Mr. Scruples]

after the accident where someone plowed into me because I wasn't accelerating fast enough up a hill (was trying to launch without clutch burn and bogged a bit).

That's not why they plowed into you.

They plowed into you because they were too @#+&$#* close and didn't leave themselves enough room to stop!!

Not your fault, dude :) Just keep at it and you'll get the hang of it eventually.



(full disclosure: I've never driven a Speed3, but I did find the clutch on the Speed 6 I tested to be very tricky indeed)

[alhope34]

I found this car easy to drive. Took me a couple days to get used to and to be able to take off smoothly. Just have to get a feel for it. Some people get it quickly and some don't. everyone is different. I find my buddy's 95 Tercel hard to drive at times, because the engagement is so far out on the pedal throw I think its out so I let go of the clutch and it goes all jerky and crap. Too used to the MS3, I guess.

[bettycrocker]

Ya.. clutch aint easy on the ms3.. I get a lot of bog-down shudder and wheel hop going into 2nd often.. just takes more practice compared to a more forgiving clutch

[alhope34]

How the heck do you guys drive this car? It really isn't that hard. Wheel hop into 2nd? For normal shifts I ease rpm up to 3000. Hard shifts usually 4-5000 rpm when the tires start breaking loose and 2nd may squeal but I never get wheel hop into 2nd. My engine never bogs when I take off normally in 1st, I just rev to 1200-1500 and let out the clutch. Works perfect and smooth every time.

[Fuyuzora]

How the heck do you guys drive this car? It really isn't that hard.


Being a new manual driver


The MS3 was my first manual car as well....it was a horrible experience for the first month and a half

Dunno about everyone else though.
:gone

[alhope34]

The only other manual I have driven before the MS3 was about 7000 kms in a 94 Probe GT with a worn out clutch. I could just drop it at 3000 rpm in first and it would just slip down to 1500 or so. Never spin the tires, never stall. Hard shifts first to 2nd and the revs would slowly drop into 2nd gear. And I mean slowly. I didn't dare shift hard into other gears for fear I would completely destroy it. The MS3 was my first working manual car, and I still found it easy. I've clocked almost 115,000 kms in my MS3 now and have never had a problem and have never been in a situation that made me doubt my ability or that made me nervous. If you're going up a hill, give it a tiny bit more gas and hold the clutch at the friction point a bit longer. It isn't rocket science.

[Unoriginalusername]

In the late 90's I had a hyundai accent.... sub 100hp and tq. is way more difficult to drive than the ms3. Same with my matrix xrs, more weight and only 120 ft of tq. I used to start of in second half the time in my ms3 and still do in my csx type s (also no tq. compared to the ms3) depending on the conditions/grade/passengers in the car etc. without riding the clutch. I'm at about 250,000 km's in manual cars thus far, it just takes some time and patience to learn the car. Learning the limits of the chassis and power train often takes 10,000 km's to the point where i find you stop noticing yourself thinking about it all the time.

The car does NOT need gas or the clutch to be ridden to get going, once you're on board with that gas is simply required to get going faster and or if you have a full car of people up a steep hill with the ac on. Let the clutch out 60% of the way and continue to 70% the revs will start to drop towards the sub 1k mark when you then ease off the release and either hold at 70% for a millisecond or even go back to 65% for a millisecond... this has just got the wheels moving slightly making the remainder of the start easy peasy since the car is moving slightly. let the clutch out the rest of the way offsetting with the application of the accelerator (clutch 80%-100% gas 0% - 20%) etc. Sounds like alot but its really just a fraction of a second with no clutch ridding/slipping and a nice smooth fuel efficient start off

Drive some more cars before you guys start making it sound like if you can master the ms3 you can master anything as i find the opposite to be true. The ms3 is about the easiest to drive stick shift this side of a TDI Golf which with its massive tq. and light weight may be even easier. go drive a 1.6l accent with passengers up a hill or a 1.8l matrix for a few days (or any other small displacement 4) and the ms3 will feel like a breeze. You have to move to a mustang or a vette to find something even easier

[gotak]

In the late 90's I had a hyundai accent.... sub 100hp and tq. is way more difficult to drive than the ms3. Same with my matrix xrs, more weight and only 120 ft of tq. I used to start of in second half the time in my ms3 and still do in my csx type s (also no tq. compared to the ms3) depending on the conditions/grade/passengers in the car etc. without riding the clutch. I'm at about 250,000 km's in manual cars thus far, it just takes some time and patience to learn the car. Learning the limits of the chassis and power train often takes 10,000 km's to the point where i find you stop noticing yourself thinking about it all the time.

The car does NOT need gas or the clutch to be ridden to get going, once you're on board with that gas is simply required to get going faster and or if you have a full car of people up a steep hill with the ac on. Let the clutch out 60% of the way and continue to 70% the revs will start to drop towards the sub 1k mark when you then ease off the release and either hold at 70% for a millisecond or even go back to 65% for a millisecond... this has just got the wheels moving slightly making the remainder of the start easy peasy since the car is moving slightly. let the clutch out the rest of the way offsetting with the application of the accelerator (clutch 80%-100% gas 0% - 20%) etc. Sounds like alot but its really just a fraction of a second with no clutch ridding/slipping and a nice smooth fuel efficient start off

Drive some more cars before you guys start making it sound like if you can master the ms3 you can master anything as i find the opposite to be true. The ms3 is about the easiest to drive stick shift this side of a TDI Golf which with its massive tq. and light weight may be even easier. go drive a 1.6l accent with passengers up a hill or a 1.8l matrix for a few days (or any other small displacement 4) and the ms3 will feel like a breeze. You have to move to a mustang or a vette to find something even easier

Well if I let out the clutch slower yes I can get it to go just like you say. The problem is trying to hurry up the start that's when I bog, stall or end up about 2k rpm launch which worries me that I might be wearing the clutch. That's the problem I am having. I find my launching to be quite a bit slower than most people. Mind you I know most auto drivers just drop their foot like a lead weight as soon as it goes green but right now I can't get my car going that fast at all.

[alhope34]

I do 2k rpm starts when I have to get going fast. Higher the rpm the shorter the duration you need to slip the clutch. When I really want to get going fast the odd time (maybe once a week?) I'll slip it at 2500 rpm. Have to be careful though, really easy to squeal out the tires with that rpm if you aren't careful with the clutch. Use however much rpm you need or want...2k rpm won't hurt this clutch.

Another example, with smaller bikes if you stick to 2-3k launches like normal bikes you'll go nowhere. On my buddy's 250 often times both him and I will launch at 10,000 rpm and slip the clutch slowly so it stays around 10k with full throttle (red line is 13k). You can do this on most bikes because they have a wet clutch - it is immersed in the engine/gearbox oil to keep it from overheating and burning. Peak tq on that bike is at 9500 rpm and peak hp at 10,500. There's only 16.5 lb-ft and 32 hp so keeping the rpm at 10k when launching on it means a much faster launch then at the 4-5 hp it may get at 2-3k rpm. This same method can be applied to cars, just not so high of an rpm and not as long of a duration of clutch slipping since cars use a dry clutch it will overheat and burn much easier. Just have to be more careful. You really shouldn't worry about this clutch. I have over 100k kms on mine and I can still dump the clutch in 2nd at 6k rolling at 10-15km/h and lock up the rear wheels with the hand brake and make a nice smoke show with the tires.

[gotak]

I do 2k rpm starts when I have to get going fast. Higher the rpm the shorter the duration you need to slip the clutch. When I really want to get going fast the odd time (maybe once a week?) I'll slip it at 2500 rpm. Have to be careful though, really easy to squeal out the tires with that rpm if you aren't careful with the clutch. Use however much rpm you need or want...2k rpm won't hurt this clutch.

Another example, with smaller bikes if you stick to 2-3k launches like normal bikes you'll go nowhere. On my buddy's 250 often times both him and I will launch at 10,000 rpm and slip the clutch slowly so it stays around 10k with full throttle (red line is 13k). You can do this on most bikes because they have a wet clutch - it is immersed in the engine/gearbox oil to keep it from overheating and burning. Peak tq on that bike is at 9500 rpm and peak hp at 10,500. There's only 16.5 lb-ft and 32 hp so keeping the rpm at 10k when launching on it means a much faster launch then at the 4-5 hp it may get at 2-3k rpm. This same method can be applied to cars, just not so high of an rpm and not as long of a duration of clutch slipping since cars use a dry clutch it will overheat and burn much easier. Just have to be more careful. You really shouldn't worry about this clutch. I have over 100k kms on mine and I can still dump the clutch in 2nd at 6k rolling at 10-15km/h and lock up the rear wheels with the hand brake and make a nice smoke show with the tires.

Maybe that's what I need to do. stop worrying...

[alhope34]

The strongest two mechanical parts of our car are the clutch and transmission. This is the same clutch used in the AWD Mazdaspeed 6, so if it can handle an AWD ~3600 lb car I'm sure it can handle our car.

[SomeGuy]

Eww, why would you launch from 2000-2500? You don't need to do that, 1200-1400rpm tops for a quick take off...it takes a split second to get off the clutch and then you can pin it and take off if need be. I find a lot of people are soooo hard on their clutches, they ride them out way too long to get going.

[alhope34]

I don't ride my clutch long at that rpm, or any for that matter. Maybe my tires get more grip and can handle higher rpm than yours? Either way, I've tried 1500 quick launches and I can for sure do them (they aren't hard compared to proper modulation at a slightly higher rpm), they just aren't as fast as 2000-2500. Still not going to hurt the clutch.

[McGuyver_3]

i find my speed clutch you cannot ride at all. its either on or off like stated earlier. But i do drive alot of cars at work with heavy duty clutches and am used to it. Its hard for me to go from my speed to a regular clutch because I am looking for the aggresive harsh in your face attitude clutch i am used to. getting used to my speed was about 3 or 4 shifts

[J_Logik]

You picked a really difficult car to learn manual in. The clutch in the MS3 is akin to a racing spec clutch in terms of feel and engagement points and is literally almost on or off. By that, I mean, the engagement points and the fact that there is very little play in the clutch. Drive a regular MZ3 (an easy and very forgiving clutch set-up) and you will instance feel the difference and understand what I mean. There is just a lot more play in the clutch for engagement and release.

I've driven manual cars almost exclusively for just under 25 years. It still took me a good 3 months to get really and truly comfortable with the MS3 clutch. Now that I have, I adore it, as it reminds me of some of the rally sprint cars I used to drive recreationally back in the day.

It will take time, but you will get used to it. However, once you do, many other cars will feel very mushy in the clutch by comparison.

This is a perfect description. Especially about the clutches in other cars feeling mushy, I drove my my other car about three days after getting the MS3 and the clutch went straight to the floor, I thought it was completely gone!! LOL:whoa

Just take your time, it will come.

[Fobio]

The hardest way to drive this car is granny shifting...or in stop and go traffic...

Run through the gears with some gusto, and it'll be easy...

This is not just a "faster MZ3" with a heavier clutch...

If you find stop and go traffic to be choppy, you can re-map the throttle on your Gen1 MS3...but that's a different conversation.

[PR3Y11]

i'm actually picking up my new ms3 this coming tuesday, i test drove it last week and found it fairly easy to drive, much easier to drive compared to the civic i traded in which i am going to miss a little bit, anyhow, i think it really depends on how comfortable you are with driving a manual car... i do agree with someone on the first couple of posts saying this is a hard car to learn manual on, but as soon as you get used to it, you should be able to have a lot of fun with it without worrying about anything, i sure did have a lot of fun on that test drive, thus me buying the car =]

[Unoriginalusername]

I do 2k rpm starts when I have to get going fast. Higher the rpm the shorter the duration you need to slip the clutch. When I really want to get going fast the odd time (maybe once a week?) I'll slip it at 2500 rpm. Have to be careful though, really easy to squeal out the tires with that rpm if you aren't careful with the clutch. Use however much rpm you need or want...2k rpm won't hurt this clutch.

Another example, with smaller bikes if you stick to 2-3k launches like normal bikes you'll go nowhere. On my buddy's 250 often times both him and I will launch at 10,000 rpm and slip the clutch slowly so it stays around 10k with full throttle (red line is 13k). You can do this on most bikes because they have a wet clutch - it is immersed in the engine/gearbox oil to keep it from overheating and burning. Peak tq on that bike is at 9500 rpm and peak hp at 10,500. There's only 16.5 lb-ft and 32 hp so keeping the rpm at 10k when launching on it means a much faster launch then at the 4-5 hp it may get at 2-3k rpm. This same method can be applied to cars, just not so high of an rpm and not as long of a duration of clutch slipping since cars use a dry clutch it will overheat and burn much easier. Just have to be more careful. You really shouldn't worry about this clutch. I have over 100k kms on mine and I can still dump the clutch in 2nd at 6k rolling at 10-15km/h and lock up the rear wheels with the hand brake and make a nice smoke show with the tires.

dude thats nuts. Thats your experience with the probe and the dead clutch coming out :) I agree its a strong clutch, but theres absolutely no need

Gotak - here is a video I did using the same technique i described, but quicker. You can see the RPM's aren't above 1,000 while I am letting the clutch out but I get away just fine. And by staying in the gas as I did here you'll leave every other car on the road in your dust. this gets you off the line with no drivetrain snap, clutch burn or delay maximizing the life of your power-train components


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlIRCIRe-CQ

[Shawn]

+1 :thumbsup
Though seemed like closer to 1500 for final release. :drool

[SomeGuy]

Gotak - here is a video I did using the same technique i described, but quicker. You can see the RPM's aren't above 1,000 while I am letting the clutch out but I get away just fine. And by staying in the gas as I did here you'll leave every other car on the road in your dust. this gets you off the line with no drivetrain snap, clutch burn or delay maximizing the life of your power-train components



Yup that's how it's done, exactly how I do it too, I'm out off the clutch at low rpm's and then foot to the floor, it's plenty fast. Seriously though if you have trouble pulling ahead of traffic in this car, you have a huge problem or are driving on a race track filled with porsche's and ferrari's lol

[gotak]

Yup that's how it's done, exactly how I do it too, I'm out off the clutch at low rpm's and then foot to the floor, it's plenty fast. Seriously though if you have trouble pulling ahead of traffic in this car, you have a huge problem or are driving on a race track filled with porsche's and ferrari's lol

Well i can do that just fine unless something startle me like when some idiot decide that a stop sign it's not for them.

Markham has some pretty lead footed driver and I don't floor it after I get the car going. So maybe that's the real reason. However, on the start I am slower than an auto with a driver that just floors it at the green. Seems to happen a lot on hwy 7. But I am being a bit hard on the car. The truth is I am just not thrashing it off the line.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

The hardest way to drive this car is granny shifting...or in stop and go traffic...

Run through the gears with some gusto, and it'll be easy...

This is not just a "faster MZ3" with a heavier clutch...

If you find stop and go traffic to be choppy, you can re-map the throttle on your Gen1 MS3...but that's a different conversation.

+1.

[taz4432]

There's a lot that's been said here, some that I'd want to chime in on but I really have to get back to studying so I'll just throw my own experience(s) out there quickly.

Picked up my MZ3 pretty much exactly 1 year ago (first few days of December '09). My first car and first time driving standard. Got the keys, hopped in and off I went. I've pretty much never stalled, even from day one although it did take me some time to really get everything smooth and like clockwork.

Over this summer I spent a reasonable amount of seat time in MS3's (enough to get a feel for the clutch and tranny, anyways) and honestly, it was incredibly easy to drive coming from my MZ3. I never had any of the difficulty that most seem to think there is. I was ready for the worst the first time I got in the car because I had read about how 'hard' it was to drive smoothly for a first-timer but really, it was a piece of cake. Before I left the parking lot I just let my leg get used to feeling where the engagement point is and I was golden. Relative to the MZ3 I did not find the need for any significant amount of extra force to depress the clutch pedal.

[Elusivellama]

i'm actually picking up my new ms3 this coming tuesday, i test drove it last week and found it fairly easy to drive, much easier to drive compared to the civic i traded in which i am going to miss a little bit, anyhow, i think it really depends on how comfortable you are with driving a manual car... i do agree with someone on the first couple of posts saying this is a hard car to learn manual on, but as soon as you get used to it, you should be able to have a lot of fun with it without worrying about anything, i sure did have a lot of fun on that test drive, thus me buying the car =]

which civic did you trade in? The 8th generation, 2005 - 2010 model year? Because the clutch take-up on that thing is very touchy, I occasionally drive my brother's civic and I am always surprised at how short the take-up is.

[PR3Y11]

to answer your question....
http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb398/PR3Y11/IMAG0050.jpg

[Speedy2008]

I never became comfortable with the MS3 clutch. It's rough and abrupt. I guess that's why I don't have it anymore. Throughout the 2 solid years driving it, it continually found a way to remind me that my shifting was not as good as I thought it was. Now that my MS3 is gone, I'm able appreciate what it means to operate a smooth and easy clutch in my Miata.