Can DRL Flicker Be Fixed With Just a Capacitor?

[Meaty G]

Hello All,

I have read all the posts about installing HID into 2004-2006 Mazda 3. I have a 2005 Mazda 3 GT. I recently installed an HID kit by LiTech. It didn't come with a relay wiring harness . Just the bulbs and ballasts. I keep seeing people installing a 4700uF capacitor near the stock headlight socket. My question is, is it necessary to install a relay or can I just install the capacitor on its own to resolve the DRL flicker problem? I don't want to do the indy fog mod or highbeam DRL mod or disabling DRL. I just want to be able to use the DRL as intended and have the functionality of the "Auto" feature. I usually leave my lights on Auto (before the HID upgrade anyway).

Thanks.

[gabbygenier]

using only capacitors will work as long as you have one on each side. i have both a capacitor and a relay harness for precautions but not needed. i was thinking of getting rid of the relay harness. everything works fine for me (04 GT) they work just as the stock bulbs do. no issues what so ever. they have them on ebay for pretty cheap. both the relay and the capacitors do the same thing. i would trust a capacitor more then a relay since you get different relays with harnesses and if you get one that dosent have the right specs it wont do anything at all. also the capacitors are way more clean then the relay harness. less wires.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/2-X-HID-Xenon-Error-Warning-Canceller-Capacitor-Decoder-/250755901203?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a62376713

[Meaty G]

Thanks for the quick response. I have made a couple "capacitor harnesses" myself using the 4700uF 35v capacitors, one for each side. I haven't plugged them in to try as yet. The capacitors are soldered to pieces of wire, being mindful of polarity on the caps. I have put spade connectors on the ends, male one end and female the other. This way, I can plug them directly into the factory harness and the other ends into the ballast wiring. I will post some pics soon.

[Meaty G]

OK, here is a picture of what I am talking about.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb407/Meaty_G/CapacitorHarnessLarge.jpg

[dj_adamix]

if you have 35 W HID's then 4700uF will work just fine with it. BUT if you have 55W HID's you want something bigger, maybe something around 6700uF capacitor., My buddy has 55W and after we installed 4700Uf on his it did work but still flickered until balast/bulb warms up. I have 35W and it works great no flickering even in cold.

Oh and u dont need a relay or aything. Capacitor connected to + and - on your original bulb harness is all u need. from there it goes to the ballast.

[Meaty G]

Thanks for the replies. I have the 35W system. Just wondering how hot the caps get?

[dj_adamix]

Not that hot, theyre rated for 35V right ? then youre fine.
You could hot glue everything tape didnt cover, just to make sure its sealed. and just hide it somewhere kind of away from the engine and moving parts, and away from coolant. It might flicker just a bit when its really cold out but then it quickly stops.

[Meaty G]

OK, so I installed them last night and the passenger side works great on "Auto" but the driver's side is still flickering. I tried another cap just to make sure and it still flickers. I took the passenger one out and tried it in the driver's side and that flickers too. Everything works great in the "On" position, just not the "Auto" position. Not sure what else to try at this point. Any ideas??

Thanks.

[McGuyver_3]

hook up a relay.
86+87-power 20 amp fused from battery
30 to the hid positive wire
85- run a wire from the headlight switch to the relay

In the steering coloum right at the headlight switch disconect it from the switch. Look for the black/green wire. Their will be 2 of them use the one in the corner as the other one will not work as the lights will not shut off

[dj_adamix]

It even flickers when it warms up ? that is weird.. just shows you the quality of you ballast...

[Meaty G]

Yeah they were cheap. $100 for an HID kit. I was looking at a kit from Philips. Apparently it has the caps built into the ballasts.

[dj_adamix]

Well, i have even cheaper set ($60) and it works great. no flickering.
Try maybe bigger cap, or add two in parallel and then to + and -.

[Meaty G]

Its odd that one side is ok and the other flickers. I will have to try something else.

[dj_adamix]

good luck man, i sitll think its a faulty ballast

[Meaty G]

If it were a faulty ballast it should flicker all the time I would think. They are fine when they are on but flicker when they are on auto.

[gabbygenier]

just swap the bubls from side to side and see if it goes with the bulb or stays with the ballast. then youll know whats faulty

[blackmica10]

well i have this mod running in my car right now. it worked great for about a month, then drivers side would do this thing where it would turn on, warm up, and then shut off, only to be fixed by turning off the car and turn it back on. it got progressivley worse until the passengers side starting flickering, and nowww they both flicker in auto mode.

[McGuyver_3]

Just use a relay and do the indy mod.

[Meaty G]

Just use a relay and do the indy mod.

I still have warranty for another year and a half so I don't want to start modding the factory wiring and then have the dealer blame me should something go wrong not related to what I did. They tried to blame a faulty injector module on my cold air intake. They replaced the defective injector module and everything has been fine since. That was almost 5 years ago. I guess it wasn't my Cold air intake afterall eh St. Catharines Mazda? :chuckle

[McGuyver_3]

I still have warranty for another year and a half so I don't want to start modding the factory wiring and then have the dealer blame me should something go wrong not related to what I did. They tried to blame a faulty injector module on my cold air intake. They replaced the defective injector module and everything has been fine since. That was almost 5 years ago. I guess it wasn't my Cold air intake afterall eh St. Catharines Mazda? :chuckle

technically speaking you have already tampered with something. you have installed other lights that are not oem so the dealer may try to "blame" the Hids for a problem aswell.
The reason why the dealer was hesitant to help you was because the intake is part of the engine diag system. Of course they open the hood see it and try to push all problems on to it. Not because they dont want to help but because most dealers hate modified cars and in many cases that is the cause of the problem. I had the same problems with all my cars but i continue to mod them because I don't care. After all the dealership is obligated to prove that what they are blaming you for is actually that which is causing the problem. In your case it was not. But generally intakes can throw fuel trim faults I have seen it before.

[Souls]

... both the relay and the capacitors do the same thing.
FAIL!


... i would trust a capacitor more then a relay since you get different relays with harnesses and if you get one that dosent have the right specs it wont do anything at all. also the capacitors are way more clean then the relay harness. less wires.

groan... FAIL x2 The capacitors work by holding the charge - to level out the DRL pulsed signal - period. The relay adds to this this setup by providing power directly to the HID ballasts from the battery, instead of drawing power from the OEM wiring; which is insufficient to fire the ballasts (which the OP mentioned still has flicker issues).


just swap the bubls from side to side and see if it goes with the bulb or stays with the ballast. then youll know whats faulty

This I'll agree with, but to the OP, just spend the $15-$25 and buy the relay harness and add the cap procedure to it. forget eBay, ask a sponsor, I ended up getting mine via Kijiji, and have not had any issues.

[gabbygenier]

i guess ill be more technical then next time. they do the same thing in diefferent ways. they will both avoid the flicker by making sure the ballast gets a high enough voltage. you dont need both. some ppl use one, some the other and some both(like me)

not everyone on this board is as inteligent as you and even cares how they work really. as long as they do the job.

[Meaty G]

Well, I have gathered the necessary materials / parts to create a relay wiring harness. Once complete, I will let you know how it went.

[standsideways]

Contact lumenia..... Very professional guys there and they made me a custom
Tailored mazda 3 kit... Each ballast has an ignitor and us mz3 people need both the anti flicker module and the high/low voltage mOdule.... My kit works as my oem lights do...including DRL's....also the quality of the kit is that of an OEM kit... There stuff comes with a year warranty also

[McGuyver_3]

Contact lumenia..... Very professional guys there and they made me a custom
Tailored mazda 3 kit... Each ballast has an ignitor and us mz3 people need both the anti flicker module and the high/low voltage mOdule.... My kit works as my oem lights do...including DRL's....also the quality of the kit is that of an OEM kit... There stuff comes with a year warranty also

OP has a kit in his car already and the capaciters are not working properly or not at all from my understanding.
What exactly is a high low voltage module? The high beams and low beams are controlled independantly on our cars except for the 2010 and up bixenon capable vehicles.GT-E and speed models.
You can hook up the relay without needing the antiflicker module. All depends on what you want.

[Meaty G]

OP has a kit in his car already and the capaciters are not working properly or not at all from my understanding.

The Caps are intermittently working, mostly not working though.


You can hook up the relay without needing the antiflicker module.

I was under the impression that the "anti flicker module" was a combination of the relay and the caps?



All depends on what you want.

All I want is for my DRL to work properly and have the auto function work as intended without tapping into wiring under my dash or in my steering column. I appreciate everyone's help thus far.

[McGuyver_3]

are you sure you have the caps installed correctly? have a look in here this may help you out.
http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=120616.0

The relay can do both and does NOT need the anti flicker device(caps).
way 1
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?11629-How-To-Prolumen-HID-Install-With-Relay-Harness

way 2 if you want plug n play same tutorial BUT signal wire and ground will go to stock connector with a cap instead if signal going to parking lights
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?11629-How-To-Prolumen-HID-Install-With-Relay-Harness

[Meaty G]

This is how I currently have my capacitors installed. One on each light. One end is plugged into the factory bulb socket to provide power and the other end is plugged into the ballast wiring harness. Hopefully you can see from the picture how it's installed.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb407/Meaty_G/IMG_0037.jpg

[McGuyver_3]

i should have clarified with correct installation. The Caps have a plus and a minus side if hooked up backwards that could be your problem.
read this
http://library.thinkquest.org/C0111209/parse.php?f=3%2Fcapacitor
near the bottom it tells you what is minus and plus

If you have a short and long legged cap read here
http://www.burnyourbonus.com/aus.electronics/thread217.html
check the answer their you will find the answer

[Meaty G]

Polarity is correct.

[McGuyver_3]

Then I suggest a relay

[Souls]

Well, I have gathered the necessary materials / parts to create a relay wiring harness. Once complete, I will let you know how it went.

look forward to it :thumbsup

[standsideways]

I will have my parts dept guy give me a full exPlanation on what/why i needed both the anti flicker module and the high/low voltage module, i am not very educated about electrical but he had this kit made for me directly by lumenia and it works flawlessly, where as my nextmod kit with relay had all kinds of problems before he told me to toss it and hed get me a proper kit... Also we sell these tp customers with projector headlight vehicles and have never had a return..... One thing i noticed different ia each ballast has its own ignitor beside the ballast wich my nextmod kit didnt....

Lumenia also said for us mazda 3 people DONT turn yOur lights on unless the vehicle is on....not sure why but tuesday ill have itmallmexplained ... Sry iphone typing :(

[McGuyver_3]

I will have my parts dept guy give me a full exPlanation on what/why i needed both the anti flicker module and the high/low voltage module, i am not very educated about electrical but he had this kit made for me directly by lumenia and it works flawlessly, where as my nextmod kit with relay had all kinds of problems before he told me to toss it and hed get me a proper kit... Also we sell these tp customers with projector headlight vehicles and have never had a return..... One thing i noticed different ia each ballast has its own ignitor beside the ballast wich my nextmod kit didnt....

Lumenia also said for us mazda 3 people DONT turn yOur lights on unless the vehicle is on....not sure why but tuesday ill have itmallmexplained ... Sry iphone typing :(


I still dont know what a high low module is. The antiflicker device is just a more sophisticated looking capaciter and thats all you need if you have a relay kit. I have seen these antiflicker devices before as i have installed them before. They used to sell them on kijiji but are now rather hard to find. The relay that you had from next mod I guarantee that their was nothing wrong with it. I am pretty sure the installer was not all to familiar with what they were doing. This is not an attack on someones work I am just saying. I have installed many simple relays like i posted links to above and never had any issues with them. As for this whole business with external ignitors I dont think that has to do with anything. I have ballasts with built in igniters. They have been running strong for over 1 year and no problems. Also what does having projector headlights have to do with anything? Your posts are very confusing. Its like you work for a shop and are trying to sell their product in disguise

[standsideways]

I still dont know what a high low module is. The antiflicker device is just a more sophisticated looking capaciter and thats all you need if you have a relay kit. I have seen these antiflicker devices before as i have installed them before. They used to sell them on kijiji but are now rather hard to find. The relay that you had from next mod I guarantee that their was nothing wrong with it. I am pretty sure the installer was not all to familiar with what they were doing. This is not an attack on someones work I am just saying. I have installed many simple relays like i posted links to above and never had any issues with them. As for this whole business with external ignitors I dont think that has to do with anything. I have ballasts with built in igniters. They have been running strong for over 1 year and no problems. Also what does having projector headlights have to do with anything? Your posts are very confusing. Its like you work for a shop and are trying to sell their product in disguise

i work for a dealership but i have nothing to do with sales lol.

ANTI FLICKER MODULE:This module is used on vehicles that have inconsistent power going to the headlight socket (usually because of DRLs).


Low Voltage Digital Relay Harness
This harness is used on vehicles that have low voltage issues at the headlight socket or reverse polarity issues (usually involves DRLs).
-------------

sorry the box witht the sticker says "high/low voltage module" when its called "low voltage digital relay harness".
MCGUYVER, does this make sense? your clearly educated with electrical more than i am.
now im not sure i have both, i will check tomorrow when i pick up my car from our body shop.

[McGuyver_3]

i work for a dealership but i have nothing to do with sales lol.

ANTI FLICKER MODULE:This module is used on vehicles that have inconsistent power going to the headlight socket (usually because of DRLs).


Low Voltage Digital Relay Harness
This harness is used on vehicles that have low voltage issues at the headlight socket or reverse polarity issues (usually involves DRLs).
-------------

sorry the box witht the sticker says "high/low voltage module" when its called "low voltage digital relay harness".
MCGUYVER, does this make sense? your clearly educated with electrical more than i am.
now im not sure i have both, i will check tomorrow when i pick up my car from our body shop.

so a high low voltage module is a low voltage digital relay harness? and you have a anti flicker module? I have never heard of a low voltage digital relay harness before and something seems strange to me if they are selling you a harness that sounds like its meant to work with the low voltage signal. Then they are selling you an anti flicker module to work with the harness. Sounds to me like a normal harness and they are putting a cap in there to stabilize voltage to make the lights always on. The harness you had before would have done the same job if they just added the cap aka anti flicker

according to this thread here
http://www.intelliscentcorp.com/hid.htm
the digital low voltage harness looks like it has the anti flicker module built in to it. Wondering why they are trying to sell you both though

[Meaty G]

OK. I have my relay. I just want to make sure I understand where everything is going before I start putting it together.

87a - Not used
87 - (labelled 12V in) - This pin connected to battery + (Fused)
30 - (Labelled 12V out) - This pin goes to positive side of Ballast
85 - (Labelled Ground) - Goes to ground (negative side of Ballast connection and negative side of factory light socket also bridged onto this ground)
86 - (Labelled on/off switch 12V) - Goes to positive side of factory light socket

Now the capacitor will be going across pin 85 and 86 (polarity of cap taken into consideration) Only one Cap required.

The other factory bulb socket is not used.

Do I have all of this correct? Thanks for the help.

[McGuyver_3]

Made some changes

87a - Not used
87 - (labelled 12Vout) - This pin goes to positive side of Ballast
30 - (Labelled 12VIn) - This pin connected to battery + (Fused)
85 - (Labelled Ground) - Goes to ground of stock light socket
86 - (Labelled on/off switch 12V) - Goes to positive side of factory light socket
the cap will go between 86 and 85
the ballast grounds, just ground them anywhere

[Meaty G]

Made some changes

87a - Not used
87 - (labelled 12Vout) - This pin goes to positive side of Ballast
30 - (Labelled 12VIn) - This pin connected to battery + (Fused)


What is the reason for reversing pins 87 and 30? I didn't think you could do that on a relay.

[McGuyver_3]

Some relays have resistor or diode in them to catch voltage spikes from the switch closing. But you need not worry about this. If they were to be switched on such a relay the resistor or diode would get destroyed over time. Terminal 30 is also the switch side which is according to standard relays always the power side.

[Meaty G]

Here is a picture of the relay schematic I have.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb407/Meaty_G/RelaySchematicLarge.jpg

Is this like the one you are describing? What size fuse should I use, 30A?

Thanks.

[McGuyver_3]

Yup it's your standard relay. Fuse I suggest you use a 30. You can get away with as low as a 15. But according to oem specks they use a single 15 for each headlight.

[Meaty G]

Ok. I will wire it up as you have indicated. Thanks.

[Meaty G]

Everything is all wired up and so far it's working perfectly. I now am able to use my auto function as intended. Thank you to all those that offered advice and thanks to McGuyver for all your electrical expertise!

[McGuyver_3]

no problem at all I am glad i was able to be of help

[Conrad Kirchner]

Just to clarify, should I be installing both 'load control' and 'anti-flicker' modules in series for each low-beam light in order to restore both DRL and auto on headlites to my '06 Mazda 3 GT Sport or do I need to do something else with the wiring after installing HID kit for low-beams only? Both of the foregoing are being sold by Parts Source (Canadian Tire subsidiary) as plug and play cures for this problem.

[Meaty G]

Just to clarify, should I be installing both 'load control' and 'anti-flicker' modules in series for each low-beam light in order to restore both DRL and auto on headlites to my '06 Mazda 3 GT Sport or do I need to do something else with the wiring after installing HID kit for low-beams only? Both of the foregoing are being sold by Parts Source (Canadian Tire subsidiary) as plug and play cures for this problem.


You don't need a "load control" module. As for the "anti-flicker" module, that is a capacitor. Sometimes, it is sold with a relay harness and also referred to by "relay harness" and by "anti flicker" module. That has been my experience. That said, with the help of McGuyver and others in this forum, I ended up making my own. I just bought a simple relay(87a), some wiring, a 35V 4700uF capacitor and some .250" spade connectors, an inline fuse, and some ring connectors and soldered it all together for the finished product (didn't take a pic of it) and now it works perfectly. I have my DRL and I am able to use the "Auto" function as intended. There is only one cap required if you use the relay setup I used. You will be drawing 12V from the car battery directly to power the ballasts and only one side of the factory light socket is required. The other side can be taped up to protect against moisture.

[Meaty G]

Here is a picture of where I connected the ground, and you can see the inline fuse as well. I used the stock ground location and bolt.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb407/Meaty_G/GroundLarge.jpg


Here you can see where I connected it to the battery.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb407/Meaty_G/BatteryTerminalLarge.jpg


Here you can see that I fastened the relay to the fuse box using the existing mounting bolt.

http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb407/Meaty_G/RelayLarge.jpg

[JaYson]

I bought a capacitor similar to this one:

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Error-Warning-Canceller-Capacitor-HID-H1-H3-H4-H7-/130481888038?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e61539b26

off ebay, and i used it with a relay harness. the set i got came with 2 capacitors so myself and a friend split the cost and used 1 capacitor each for out HID setup.

I ground the relay on a bolt near the hood hinge on the driver side of the car ( i think the same spot as Meaty G)
mounted the relay switch on the front of the fuse box
mounted the capacitor inside the body panel on the driver side, so its relatively hidden, (you wouldn't see it unless you're looking for it)

i think my setup is very very clean, no wires swinging around, i've hidden all my wiring and mounted all my relays, capacitors, ballasts in inconspicuous places. (lemme know if you want photos)

always ran my HIDs with a relay harness and a capacitor and never had a flickering issue. from time to time (usually when its super cold) my passenger side HID doesn't light up, but simply turning my lights off then on again fixes that problem and the lights turn on like usual

[machx]

Is it possible to get a schematic of this? Would make everything SOOO much easier. A drawing of the HID Kit, Harness, Capacitor, Battery, FuseBox... WHATEVER is involved.

How do wire that up from start to finish would be delightful! :)

[McGuyver_3]

Is it possible to get a schematic of this? Would make everything SOOO much easier. A drawing of the HID Kit, Harness, Capacitor, Battery, FuseBox... WHATEVER is involved.

How do wire that up from start to finish would be delightful! :)

Dont mean to be rude but have you read through this thread? Their is ample information about how to do this and their are also links posted
But here is another
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?40599-How-to-install-HIDs-on-04-06-Mazda-3

[machx]

100% agree with you! There is TONS of info in this thread, this forum and other forums out there.

But there is always people contradicting each other, arguing and no one has presented a definitive answer as to what works. Not to mention, people use different words, terminology, etc... there are different harnesses/relays, kits, capacitors, etc.

A schematic would be black and white, easy to follow, everyone could agree "yup, yup, that's how you do it!" etc.

There is a wealth of knowledge on these forums, and very grateful of this! It's not that i'm lazy, if I was lazy i would have just went and did it and started plugging wires and not spend over 6 hours online researching this.

I just want to make sure I do it right, I got two harness/relays, two sets of HIDs and some capactors,. I'm doing my lowbeams and fogs. I want to make sure it's right, correct and ready so I can seal up and protect the connections properly, and solder, shrink wrap, seal etc.

Didn't mean to be a bother, just thought it would be easier!