Jan 29: Christian @ Cobb coming to Buffalo area [Archive]

Fobio

01-17-2011, 10:39 PM

Anyone else interested?

MSF.org members,

I will be in the Buffalo, NY/Toronto, Canada vicinity in a few weeks training one of our tuner facilities how to properly calibrate MS vehicle. I was curious to know if any AP users would be interested in getting their vehicles tuned by me while I am there.

We should be able to complete custom calibrations on any 2006-2010 MS3/MS6 that is in proper mechanical working order with the correct supporting modifications. I do not know the tuning rates that the shop normally charges, but I can find out if enough people are interested.

Please post up here if you are interested in this opportunity for Saturday, January 29th.

Take care,
Christian.

MPS

01-17-2011, 10:51 PM

2010 MS3 ?

S.F.W.

01-17-2011, 11:00 PM

2010 MS3 ?

you picking up another one?

horto

01-17-2011, 11:01 PM

Anyone else interested?

sort of. depends on cost. assume I will need a HPFP before going any further. and that's money I don't have right now.

MPS

01-18-2011, 12:30 AM

i would never drive Mazda again
im just asking cus in the post he says 2006 to 2010 MS3 MS6
but i know COBB is doing nothing for 2010 MS3 :loco

you picking up another one?

Christian.

01-18-2011, 12:54 AM

i would never drive Mazda again
im just asking cus in the post he says 2006 to 2010 MS3 MS6
but i know COBB is doing nothing for 2010 MS3 :locoI can fully calibrate all 2010 MS3 as well. ;)

Christian.

01-18-2011, 12:55 AM

sort of. depends on cost. assume I will need a HPFP before going any further. and that's money I don't have right now.I will get Mike to post up his rates some time tomorrow.

MajesticBlueNTO

01-18-2011, 01:12 AM

I will get Mike to post up his rates some time tomorrow.

subbed!

-cj-

01-18-2011, 01:26 AM

Big time interest, just the timing is all wrong for me. All my parts are sitting in a box in my garage. :(

Snotrocket

01-18-2011, 01:28 AM

if i have my AP by then maybe he can install the gen 2 maps on it and tune me up ;)

hey can anyone answer this question??

Mike,

These cars tend to get into a turbo overrun condition (boost spikes and over boost) when you run them catless. Even with 0% WGDC, these turbos will spike to 20+ psi which is not safe on most fuels. An EMS must have control over the turbo in order for it to operate properly. For this and other reasons, we will not be generating calibrations for catless exhaust systems for this platform.

Take care,
COBB Calibration Team.

Sorry i thought i had everything figured out then i came across this. Will a minimum of one cat be required on the gen 2 to operate safely? If so is it the down pipe that must be catted or can it be the TP that i replace with a catted one?

my mods are as follows,

2010 MS3 Black - Cork Sport SRI/TIP, Ultimate Racing Cat-less Turbo Back Exhaust, 235/40/18 Pirelli P Zero Nero tires, PLX KIWI WIFI with Rev2 Software on Iphone, Cobb Accessport/kmd internals this spring.

Christian.

01-18-2011, 05:48 AM

if i have my AP by then maybe he can install the gen 2 maps on it and tune me up ;)

hey can anyone answer this question??

Sorry i thought i had everything figured out then i came across this. Will a minimum of one cat be required on the gen 2 to operate safely? If so is it the down pipe that must be catted or can it be the TP that i replace with a catted one?

my mods are as follows,

2010 MS3 Black - Cork Sport SRI/TIP, Ultimate Racing Cat-less Turbo Back Exhaust, 235/40/18 Pirelli P Zero Nero tires, PLX KIWI WIFI with Rev2 Software on Iphone, Cobb Accessport/kmd internals this spring.With a Gen2 MS3, you must run at least one high flow catalyst in the exhaust stream. Without doing so, the turbo can go into an overrun condition very easily creating severe boost spikes.

Any increase in exhaust flow increases the VE of the engine to the point where the CDFP will also need to be upgraded in order to support fueling for reasonbly high boost levels.

We can always run less boost for all S2+ stock CDFP combinations...but that would be no fun.

Due to the new ECU logic on these vehicles, you will need to run an upgraded CDFP in order to take full advantage of the tune, but we will have some lower boost Stage1 tunes that can be run with the stock CDFP.

Every Stage2 car (a car with any catalyst removed or running at least one high-flow catalytic converter) will need an upgraded CDFP to run any AP calibraiton. The new ECU logic forces this in order for the calibration to operate safely.

To reitterate - Stage1 tunes are only for cars with all stock catalysts in tact. A CBE is fine, but any increase in exhaust flow from the installation of a high-flow catalyst or by running just one catalyst warrants a Stage2 tune.

Christian.

Snotrocket

01-18-2011, 06:40 AM

Crud..... Am I getting those unsafe spikes currently on the stock tune with no cats?

Innovative Tuning

01-18-2011, 11:39 AM

The initial custom tune via the AccessPORT at our shop will normally be $399 flat rate for MazdaSpeed cars and that will include tuning AND dyno time on our 2WD/AWD variable load Mustang dyno, which is the same dyno Cobb uses.

On the 29th for this one day event it will only be $299 for tuning and dyno time together. Anyone that pre-orders a Mazdaspeed AccessPORT from us to pick it up that day gets an extra $50 off the initial tune, making it $249 for tuning and dyno time together. In the future when you change an engine related part and a retune is required, that will be billed by the hour. Our current hourly rate for dyno tuning is 175/hour. If you choose to have the tune tweaked at a later date on the road instead, road retuning is 95/hour. Retunes generally take 1-4 hours (most often 1-2) depending on what's being changed.

We can only tune a limited number of cars on the 29th, so if you're interested please contact us to hold a spot. Innovative Tuning is located 5 minutes from the Peace Bridge to Canada in Buffalo so we're an easy drive down the QEW. We have many customers from the GTA so lots of the border agents know our shop by name and some of them are customers here. Just let them know you're coming to Innovative Tuning to have your car tuned.

Crud..... Am I getting those unsafe spikes currently on the stock tune with no cats?
Christian mentioned that with 0% wastegate duty cycle (stock boost control solenoid turned off) the car can still overboost if you have no cats. On the stock tune the stock boost control solenoid wouldn't be off, making this even worse.

Cars that are borderline in terms of avoiding boost spiking are also more likely to spike when it's cold out so keep an eye on your boost gauge and be careful.

MPS

01-18-2011, 11:58 AM

i dont see 2010 MS3 on ur site
AP-MAZ-002 Mazda MAZDASPEED3 2007-09 ; USDM Only

Christian.

01-18-2011, 12:14 PM

i dont see 2010 MS3 on ur site
AP-MAZ-002 Mazda MAZDASPEED3 2007-09 ; USDM OnlyI will have special 2010 MS3 firmware with me. I can also get you instructions to remotely updated any AP that you pick up prior to the tuning session. We can take car of the MAF Calibration and some other aspects of the tune prior to getting on the chassis dyno.

MPS

01-18-2011, 12:20 PM

when will the 2010 stuff be more public ?

mleblond

01-18-2011, 01:00 PM

when will the 2010 stuff be more public ?

I was under the impression that 2010 MS3 OTS maps were in beta already...

Either way this is a great news to have a close tuner get trained, may not be done by Christian but still bufallo isnt that far! Do these guys have a website? Curious to see what they have tuned in the past?

MajesticBlueNTO

01-18-2011, 01:03 PM

I was under the impression that 2010 MS3 OTS maps were in beta already...

Either way this is a great news to have a close tuner get trained, may not be done by Christian but still bufallo isnt that far! Do these guys have a website? Curious to see what they have tuned in the past?

Innovative Tuning (http://www.innovativetuning.com/)...mike's tuned a number of people on Toronto Subaru Club

Fack_Dude

01-18-2011, 01:19 PM

Just booked my spot for this special day:headbang:headbang:headbang

Innovative Tuning

01-18-2011, 01:31 PM

We have a few customer projects on our site which MajesticBlueNTO posted. Our shop specializes in Japanese cars and I've tuned a wide range of them from basic bolt on street cars to race cars. In terms of cars from and competing in Ontario I tuned the current quickest/fastest Subaru in Canada, the 2009 Ontario Pro Rally overall season champion (2nd this year due to turbo failure), a Titan V8 powered Nissan 350Z which is slated to compete in DMCC pro drift competition this year, and countless fast street cars. I've been tuning Subaru, Mitsubishi, and Honda vehicles with Cobb's pro tuner software and look forward to adding Mazdaspeed cars to that list.

Fobio

01-18-2011, 01:57 PM

I think myself and MajesticBlueNTO will take 2 spots for Jan 29.

Snotrocket

01-18-2011, 02:40 PM

My car is in storage till spring... will an offer like this be available again when the road salt goes away?

swales

01-18-2011, 02:46 PM

Ohhhh I'm so interested in this but which it was after winter.

Innovative Tuning

01-18-2011, 02:49 PM

I think myself and MajesticBlueNTO will take 2 spots for Jan 29.
Think it over and when you're sure you can make it please let us know. We only have a few available slots so we want to make sure that the people who grab the slots can make it.

swales

01-18-2011, 02:51 PM

How many spots do you have Mike?

Innovative Tuning

01-18-2011, 03:00 PM

Because I already tune multiple platforms with Cobb's software, Christian will just be here the one day to bring me up to speed on what's different in the Mazdaspeed ECUs. I'd be happy to offer a group tuning day for you guys in the spring or summer.

Innovative Tuning

01-18-2011, 03:02 PM

How many spots do you have Mike?
There are only 2 spots left. Because there are only 2 left I'm going to take a deposit towards the cost of the tuning to hold these two. I don't want to see someone take a slot and not show up, causing another member who could have made it to miss out.

Christian.

01-18-2011, 03:15 PM

Just booked my spot for this special day:headbang:headbang:headbangDo you have a AccessPORT already? If not, please let me know how you will be acquiring one so I can work with you on the Alpha firmware update.

when will the 2010 stuff be more public ?Within a month is my guess. No promises, but I am working hard to get things out by then.

swales

01-18-2011, 03:24 PM

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 03:59 AM

The initial custom tune via the AccessPORT at our shop will normally be $399 flat rate for MazdaSpeed cars and that will include tuning AND dyno time on our 2WD/AWD variable load Mustang dyno, which is the same dyno Cobb uses.

On the 29th for this one day event it will only be $299 for tuning and dyno time together. Anyone that pre-orders a Mazdaspeed AccessPORT from us to pick it up that day gets an extra $50 off the initial tune, making it $249 for tuning and dyno time together. In the future when you change an engine related part and a retune is required, that will be billed by the hour. Our current hourly rate for dyno tuning is 175/hour. If you choose to have the tune tweaked at a later date on the road instead, road retuning is 95/hour. Retunes generally take 1-4 hours (most often 1-2) depending on what's being changed.

We can only tune a limited number of cars on the 29th, so if you're interested please contact us to hold a spot. Innovative Tuning is located 5 minutes from the Peace Bridge to Canada in Buffalo so we're an easy drive down the QEW. We have many customers from the GTA so lots of the border agents know our shop by name and some of them are customers here. Just let them know you're coming to Innovative Tuning to have your car tuned.

Christian mentioned that with 0% wastegate duty cycle (stock boost control solenoid turned off) the car can still overboost if you have no cats. On the stock tune the stock boost control solenoid wouldn't be off, making this even worse.

Cars that are borderline in terms of avoiding boost spiking are also more likely to spike when it's cold out so keep an eye on your boost gauge and be careful.

I'm just going back and reviewing my data logs from the fall. What would warrant the label of an unsafe boost spike on my gen 2?

Is it just high pressure or high pressure + length of spike? I have about 4 or 5 WOT boost logs.

Innovative Tuning

01-19-2011, 11:28 AM

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 02:32 PM

Brief spikes often don't show up in logs due to the sampling rate. Do you have a boost gauge? If yes, how high does it spike on the gauge?
The higher the boost goes and the longer it's too high, the greater the potential for damage. Howeve,r if the spike is severe it doesn't have to be sustained to cause damage.

Im not seeing anything spiking over 18PSI in any of my logs.. But as you mentioned im not sure how rapid the sampling rate is... Im collecting the data on my iphone using the PLX KIWI WIFI device plugged into my OBDII port... if that helps...

It seems to sample quite rapidly on the charts..

Christian.

01-19-2011, 02:37 PM

Im not seeing anything spiking over 18PSI in any of my logs.. But as you mentioned im not sure how rapid the sampling rate is... Im collecting the data on my iphone using the PLX KIWI WIFI device plugged into my OBDII port... if that helps...

It seems to sample quite rapidly on the charts..Please be sure to also log DI Fuel Pressure to see if the stock CDFP is keeping up with fueling demands and Knock Retard to see how the ECU is responding to these spikes with your local fuel quality.

Innovative Tuning

01-19-2011, 02:55 PM

Im collecting the data on my iphone using the PLX KIWI WIFI device plugged into my OBDII port
I haven't tested that setup. If it timestamps each data point, let us know how many samples it's recording per second on your car. Now you have me curious because I have an iphone... ;)

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 04:13 PM

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?46918-PLX-KIWI-Wifi&highlight=

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/uu3/snotrocket1983/upload.jpg

It samples much faster when only logging boost.

Innovative Tuning

01-19-2011, 05:11 PM

Looks like 12 Hz when sampling 3 values and 4 Hz when sampling 6 values.

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 05:12 PM

is that enough to detect these spikes?

Innovative Tuning

01-19-2011, 05:17 PM

12 HZ is fine. Trying logging RPM and boost only. That should sample at 12 Hz or better.

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 05:23 PM

thanks..

This device is alright but unfortunately it doesn't monitor things like KR... I probably would have gone with a dashhawk if i could do it again. Im sure the AP will give me the added values i require..

REV 2 software OBD Metrics:

Vehicle Speed
RPM
Fuel Consumption*
Engine Coolant Temp
Fuel Pressure
Calculated Engine Load
Throttle Position
Intake Manifold Pressure
Air Intake Temp
Timing Advance
Mass Air Flow
Fuel Level
Barometric Pressure
EVAP System Vapor Pressure
Fuel Trim
Boost**

Christian.

01-19-2011, 05:41 PM

If you want to pick up an AP-MAZ-002...I will set you up with the Alpha firmware while I am there. I likely have a base calibration that will work well for you as well.

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 05:44 PM

Innovative Tuning

01-19-2011, 05:48 PM

You're welcome to do that. You can paypal us or call in a visa/mastercard in advance.

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 05:50 PM

With a Gen2 MS3, you must run at least one high flow catalyst in the exhaust stream. Without doing so, the turbo can go into an overrun condition very easily creating severe boost spikes.

Any increase in exhaust flow increases the VE of the engine to the point where the CDFP will also need to be upgraded in order to support fueling for reasonbly high boost levels.

We can always run less boost for all S2+ stock CDFP combinations...but that would be no fun.

Due to the new ECU logic on these vehicles, you will need to run an upgraded CDFP in order to take full advantage of the tune, but we will have some lower boost Stage1 tunes that can be run with the stock CDFP.

Every Stage2 car (a car with any catalyst removed or running at least one high-flow catalytic converter) will need an upgraded CDFP to run any AP calibraiton. The new ECU logic forces this in order for the calibration to operate safely.

To reitterate - Stage1 tunes are only for cars with all stock catalysts in tact. A CBE is fine, but any increase in exhaust flow from the installation of a high-flow catalyst or by running just one catalyst warrants a Stage2 tune.

Christian.

I just realized i have my stock resonator in the garage.. would that provide enough restriction to run the stage 2 map?... As a temporary solution.

Last question.... For now ;)

Snotrocket

01-19-2011, 05:51 PM

You're welcome to do that. You can paypal us or call in a visa/mastercard in advance.
i'll PM for details if i decide to do so.. thank you

Christian.

01-19-2011, 08:09 PM

Thanks Christian,

I already purchased a AP-MAZ-002... But I wont be able to attend as i will be in California.... My car is in storage until spring anyway.. Unless i can send it down with another member?Sure, I can meet with anyone, just PM me with details and let me know your AP serial number.

Innovative Tuning

01-20-2011, 01:12 PM

Only one spot left!

Snotrocket

01-20-2011, 09:25 PM

Received my AP today.. Is there any member who will be attending the tuning session in Buffalo able to bring my AP down with them for Christian to set up for me?
PM me if you able..

Thanks

Fobio

01-20-2011, 10:16 PM

Christian...the man himself will be @ JRP on Jan 30th...see him there!

Snotrocket

01-20-2011, 10:18 PM

im in California 28 - 3......

Fobio

01-20-2011, 10:21 PM

so to reply to your PM...yes, you can leave it with one of us.

Christian.

01-20-2011, 11:21 PM

Christian...the man himself will be @ JRP on Jan 30th...see him there!I am happy to speak with anyone at the show, we will be holding a few AccessTUNER seminars at the show as well. As soon as I have times, I will let you know when the seminars will be.

Please let me know if you have any specific questions or concerns that you would like me to address while I am there.

Christian.

Tokay444

01-21-2011, 06:52 AM

Is jrp already tuning mazdaspeeds with the AP, or will this be a crash course for them. I'm literally seconds away from them, but don't have then money to invest in an AP AND come see Christian for a pro tune, but if they know what they're doing already, and will only get better with Christian's teachings, I'd gladly take to them later on...

Mty Mous

01-21-2011, 08:32 PM

Wasn't aware that JRP had an in-house Dyno for tuning ... Haven't dropped by to see Steve in a couple of years!

Fobio

01-21-2011, 08:33 PM

Wasn't aware that JRP had an in-house Dyno for tuning ... Haven't dropped by to see Steve in a couple of years!

he's at JRP demo'ing a vendors' show...not tuning there.

Fack_Dude

01-26-2011, 02:06 AM

Anyone else going to buffalo this Saturday to innovative tuning?

Innovative Tuning

01-26-2011, 06:39 PM

Dress warm. I got a massive fancy blower which will be part of a new exhaust evacuation system for our dyno area, but until we have that installed, ducted, etc. we need to open the garage door to keep the air fresh. It will be chilly.

Tokay444

01-28-2011, 08:04 PM

I really wish I had the cash for an AP and a tune. If this ever happens again I'll be all over it.

Fack_Dude

01-30-2011, 11:52 PM

Hey guys,

I had the chance to get a pro tune from Mike the owner of Innovative Tuning which is located in Buffalo. There was also an appearance from Christian of COBB Tuning. These guys spent two hours on my speed 3 Saturday to give my car the best tune. Not only did they tune the car but they also made a few other maps for me too.

I all that I can say that is Mike's shop is a top notch facility and also is a pro at the tuning game!!!!!!!! Chrisitian is certainally a pro in his game and COBB is the way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys for your help!!!!

Guys, I would certainly recommend to take a drive to Buffalo in the near future to Innovative Tuning to get your car tuned.

-cj-

01-31-2011, 12:07 AM

Let's see some results fast_dude!! :)

Fobio

01-31-2011, 01:35 AM

Let's see some results fast_dude!! :)

+1...show us yours and we'll show you ours...soon enough!

Innovative Tuning

01-31-2011, 10:35 AM

fast_dude I'm glad you're happy with the service you received. For those who haven't used our tuning services yet, any time I perform the initial tuning on a car I offer to make a 91 map and 93/94 map at no extra charge. The same goes for making a street/strip map vs. a road course map, or making a conservative version of a map for use when you want to go a bit easier on your engine, turbo, etc. I've also made alternate maps with reduced initial torque for autocrossers, maps with more or less aggressive DBW throttle mapping depending on driver preference, etc.

When it comes to tuning a car for pump gas and E85 or something of that nature where the maps are drastically different and significant extra time is involved, we'd go over any potential change in the initial tuning cost before starting the tune.

I'm offering free dyno pulls to the first two people with 100% mechanically stock MS3s running the stock tune who can come in. I want to see what a MS3 baselines bone stock on my dyno because I know STIs baseline lower here than on Cobb's dyno.