View Full Version : CRTC allows UBB ( usage based billing) on3rd party isp....
yearoftherat
01-30-2011, 07:40 PM
For those of you using Netflix...you're gonna get screwed
For those who don't know already, the CRTC has allows company that are with Tekksavvy or any 3rd party ISP, be prepared for a the drop in allowable monthly usage and an increase in fees :bang
http://openmedia.ca/news/canadians-reach-out-over-500000-twitter-protest-internet-fees
Sign the petition:
http://openmedia.ca/meter
I'm with Tekksavvy 5MB/200GB. That will change of as March 1 to 25 GB cap..
m_a_t_r_i_x
01-30-2011, 07:55 PM
another cash grab! 25GB a month are you f#@ kiddin' me!, but if you dont used up or less your monthly bandwidth you will get no credits/discounts! paging Mayor Ford! kill this like the personal tax vehicle hehehe....
SilentJay
01-31-2011, 12:14 PM
You know what blows? People on Teksavvy prior to January 1st, 2007 get to stay on unlimited for $5 more. Guess who signed up January 15th.
Fuyuzora
01-31-2011, 12:48 PM
There was a short discussion on the decision the same day it was released:
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?50425-Usage-Based-Billion-Decision
I'm with Tekksavvy 5MB/200GB. That will change of as March 1 to 25 GB cap..
Knew TekSavvy (like the other ISPs) would get hit with a transfer cap, but didn't know it would be so low. That's ridiculous.
You know what blows? People on Teksavvy prior to January 1st, 2007 get to stay on unlimited for $5 more. Guess who signed up January 15th.
Ugh, that sucks. You could always try nagging the support line until they agree to fudge your join date? :/
bman13
01-31-2011, 01:12 PM
Well as long as you have signed the petition, got other people to sign the petition (aka did your part)...this SHOULD get addressed. You got Strombo and other media types starting to talk about it, so that's a good start.
coriolis
01-31-2011, 01:30 PM
You know what blows? People on Teksavvy prior to January 1st, 2007 get to stay on unlimited for $5 more. Guess who signed up January 15th.
Isnt it February 1st 2007? I recall it was cause i aigned up in March 2007 :(
Fuyuzora
01-31-2011, 01:34 PM
You know what blows? People on Teksavvy prior to January 1st, 2007 get to stay on unlimited for $5 more. Guess who signed up January 15th.
Isnt it February 1st 2007? I recall it was cause i aigned up in March 2007 :(
Took another look, and coriolis is right, it's February 1st, 2007. See section 17:
http://www.teksavvy.com/en/faq-ubb_on.asp
Crappy luck for you though, coriolis. :(
yearoftherat
01-31-2011, 01:39 PM
Knew TekSavvy (like the other ISPs) would get hit with a transfer cap, but didn't know it would be so low. That's ridiculous.
I looked at other ISP's to see if their packages were any better and no. I'd rather not be tied into a contract and therefore will prb change my package and stay with Teksavvy.
coriolis
01-31-2011, 01:40 PM
Yak.ca doesn't follow UBB but is limited to K/W at the moment. Ughhhh.....
25gb a month, I'll use 10gb for Top Gear already lol...
Pokey
01-31-2011, 03:20 PM
acanac still says nothing about capping usage. my educational programs may have to be limited to the 700mb size :(
laksman91
01-31-2011, 03:24 PM
This doesn't affect the Rogers customers right?
Fuyuzora
01-31-2011, 03:33 PM
This doesn't affect the Rogers customers right?
The CRTC decision affects everyone that uses the Internet in Canada. It basically states that the operators of local telephone exchanges as well as cable carriers, that is to say:
In this decision, “ILECs” refers to Bell Aliant Regional Communications, Limited Partnership, Bell Canada, MTS Allstream Inc., Saskatchewan Telecommunications, and TELUS Communications Company; “cable carriers” refers to Cogeco Cable Inc., Quebecor Media Inc., on behalf of its affiliate Videotron Ltd., Rogers Communications Inc., and Shaw Communications Inc.;
... may force usage-based billing upon wholesalers who make use of said infrastructure.
Wholesalers' UBB rates are to be pegged at a 15% reduction over the providers' set UBB rates; however the use of UBB itself cannot be avoided - if the exchange/cable operators want to force UBB, they are free to do so, and all the related companies underneath them suffer the consequences as well.
The only major exception worth noting is that DSL subscribers with Bell or a wholesaler before 2007.02.01, who were on an unlimited plan and have not changed plan/cancelled/anything since then, are to be "grandfathered" and continue to be allowed unlimited bandwidth... For now. I don't know if an equivalent situation exists with the cable companies.
m_bisson
01-31-2011, 06:36 PM
sweet.... what they don't realise is they will LOSE customers. I can't wait to make that "I'm quitting rogers" call. I'd rather just suck on my schools internet for downloads during the day, and then enjoy them once i get home.
coriolis
01-31-2011, 07:44 PM
This doesn't affect the Rogers customers right?
Rogers will probably follow suit in July.
As for Acanac, they resell Rogers' cable right? If so then in July.
Pretty much the only companies not effected are the ones who run their own connections(Like Yak, Videotron, etc.)
rukus
01-31-2011, 08:19 PM
sweet.... what they don't realise is they will LOSE customers. I can't wait to make that "I'm quitting rogers" call. .
problem is, this ruling is for ALL internet providers in canada. so if you want home internet, you are bound by this.
problem is, this ruling is for ALL internet providers in canada. so if you want home internet, you are bound by this.
Only DSL for now, Cable will follow in the summer (so that Rogers can pick up all the DSL customers and then screw them over).
Way to go backwards... Bell.
Avoid Bell and Rogers, support Teksavvy, Acanac and the other smaller guys.
bman13
01-31-2011, 10:47 PM
Keep on getting people to sign...it literally takes a minute. Making progress.
http://openmedia.ca/blog/liberals-come-out-support-stop-meter
SpeedBaby
02-01-2011, 01:55 PM
http://i.imgur.com/M3G7f.png
bman13
02-01-2011, 01:59 PM
http://i.imgur.com/M3G7f.png
+1 the site is crashing from web traffic plus finally some political pressure.....makin progress.
Only DSL for now, Cable will follow in the summer (so that Rogers can pick up all the DSL customers and then screw them over).
Way to go backwards... Bell.
Avoid Bell and Rogers, support Teksavvy, Acanac and the other smaller guys.
the problem is that even if you're with teksavvy or acanac, you're still indirectly paying bell or rogers
the problem is that even if you're with teksavvy or acanac, you're still indirectly paying bell or rogers
Better than Bell/Rogers getting 100% of the money.
TokyoKiller
02-01-2011, 03:51 PM
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2011/02/01/internet-usage-based-billing-clement.html
lulz 4 ur tiem -thank you and keep signing the petition (http://openmedia.ca/meter), we are almost at 250,000 :thumbsup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aadw_YSCS6Y&feature=player_embedded#
send the petition (http://openmedia.ca/meter) (and the video lol) to as many people as you can!
Ogata
02-01-2011, 10:36 PM
Liberals got our attention on this issue now.
http://www.liberal.ca/ubb/
bman13
02-01-2011, 11:55 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/tech-news/pm-orders-review-of-internet-billing/article1890567/
Do you one better lol PM is weighing in on it...let me say that it is the Conservative government that wants to open up the telecommunications industry and when this gets reversed the old business strategy at the foggies up at big 3 will need to change....hopefully this is just the beginning.
Zoom Zoom Boy
02-02-2011, 11:31 AM
lulz 4 ur tiem -thank you and keep signing the petition (http://openmedia.ca/meter), we are almost at 250,000 :thumbsup
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aadw_YSCS6Y&feature=player_embedded#
send the petition (http://openmedia.ca/meter) (and the video lol) to as many people as you can!
Hilarious. Pretty sure this is based on actual conversation. :)
Teksavvy spokesman george burger destroys UBB. and as much as like lulz from kevin o'learys trolling (dragons den/shark tank/lang and o'leary exchange) he got pwned too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEIls-iZtx0&feature=related
keep signing the petition, we are now at 350,000+ :winner
http://stopthemeter.ca/
Both awesome videos. I forwarded them on to friends and coworkers. Also I have been telling everyone I know to sign that petition!
Zoom Zoom Boy
02-02-2011, 11:35 PM
The latest news...
OTTAWA—The CRTC’s controversial decision to substantially increase Internet costs to Canadians will be reversed, the Toronto Star has learned.
“The CRTC should be under no illusion — the Prime Minister and minister of Industry will reverse this decision unless the CRTC does it itself,” a senior Conservative government official said Wednesday.
“If they don’t reconsider we will reverse their decision.”
The promise to reverse the ruling comes as CRTC Chair Konrad von Finckenstein is scheduled to explain the decision Thursday before the House of Commons industry committee.
While the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission is an independent agency, its decision can be overturned by cabinet. The Star was told that could happen as early as next week.
The CRTC decision has sparked outrage across the country with Canadians rushing to sign petitions asking the Conservative government to reverse it. Industry Minister Tony Clement has received tens of thousands of emails requesting that it be struck down.
“Frankly, a decision like this is clearly not in the best interest of consumers,” the senior official said.
“This is a bread-and-butter issue.”
Consumers’ Association of Canada president Bruce Cran said it is nothing but corporate gouging by Canada’s monopolistic communications companies.
The CRTC’s ruling affects the wholesale business of the major Internet service providers, who sell capacity to smaller resellers. To encourage competitions, major telecom operators that have spent heavily on infrastructure are required to lease bandwidth on their networks to small providers.
Major providers charge customers extra if they download more than the monthly limits they set, typically between 20 and 60 gigabytes. Small providers, however, offer plans with 200 gigabyte ceilings and even unlimited use.
Although critics say the CRTC ruling will lead to lower download limits and higher rates, major Internet service providers say usage-based billing based is fair because it means heavy users pay more than those who just surf the web and use email.
As it invests billions in new broadband capacity, Bell says old pricing structures need to be brought in line with the huge amount of growth in Internet usage. Businesses and consumers are increasingly relying on the Internet to download videos, documents and even software. Rogers says its customers are using about 40 per cent more data each year.
John Reid, president of CATA Alliance, a group that advocates for innovation in Canada, said, “This has to be a decision that Canada makes — that it wants to be the best in the world in the provision of high-speed Internet.”
He added, however, that usage-based billing is not the answer.
“You don’t want to stifle the sort of richness that comes from using high-speed Internet,” says Reid.
Kevin@nextmod
02-03-2011, 12:03 AM
The only major exception worth noting is that DSL subscribers with Bell or a wholesaler before 2007.02.01, who were on an unlimited plan and have not changed plan/cancelled/anything since then, are to be "grandfathered" and continue to be allowed unlimited bandwidth... For now. I don't know if an equivalent situation exists with the cable companies.
I'm so glad i fall under this. I'm still using the unlimited plan from bell at the moment. I use over 150gb a month for movies and music shared between my bro and my cousin.
Slade
02-03-2011, 12:32 AM
I'm so glad i fall under this. I'm still using the unlimited plan from bell at the moment. I use over 150gb a month for movies and music shared between my bro and my cousin.
Legitmate movies, legitimate music? or pirated? not trying to stir the pot, but a lot of the fanboys are always saying the need that 1TB a month for the linux iso's :blah
again, not siding with anyones decision...but I fully believe you should pay for what you use.....
bman13
02-03-2011, 12:39 AM
Legitmate movies, legitimate music? or pirated? not trying to stir the pot, but a lot of the fanboys are always saying the need that 1TB a month for the linux iso's :blah
again, not siding with anyones decision...but I fully believe you should pay for what you use.....
No offense, but you and people whose pockets are lined with money with UBB type practices are probably the only ones that feel this way...just sayin
Slade
02-03-2011, 12:48 AM
No offense, but you and people whose pockets are lined with money with UBB type practices are probably the only ones that feel this way...just sayin
Ok, second round..
Just to add;
A lot of people say that people are are using the internet more because of the age of technology, and that bitcaps should be raised to match it..well, I drive more than I did when I was 16 and I drive a truck now..because that is my choice or my new technology, same as you folks with boost, you use more fuel, or you use a higher octane gas, yet gas prices continue to rise, even though the fixed cost as mentioned in the video above are done. The oil platforms are installed, they are functioning, the same way they always have been. Same analogy on hydro...hydro lines are already hanging, power plants are already working, why does hydro cost fluctuate? Or why can't we buy a set amount of hydro per month and pay per kilowatt after?
I'm really not trying to point a finger, but no one seems to care about the utlility cost, but yet we are paying .15cents more per liter of fuel than we were LAST YEAR! So last year my 72L tank would have cost $71.14, now it cost $81.72...$10 difference..per fillup, not per month...I could fill up 5 or 6 times a month, thats an extra $60! to drive the same amount I was last year, but the oil compaines aren't installing state of the are technology to deliver that fuel to you, it still comes to you from the same oil platform, and the same tankers bring it to the gas stations. Hell, now every gas station is even self serve!
If you don't want UBB, maybe the entire world should stay @ 56k dialup internet, and the telco's wont spend capital money to upgrade the network, keep it fast, or offer new technology....DOCSIS3.0 for example, that didn't just automagically install itself in the interwebs and certainly is a costless venture by a company.
/endrant
/start flame war....
This is what I used to get last years gas prices. http://tomorrowsgaspricetoday.com/
Pokey
02-03-2011, 09:43 AM
again, not siding with anyones decision...but I fully believe you should pay for what you use.....
I wouldn't mind. If I go away for a month and not use the internet at all will my bill be zero? NO? why not - I haven't used it right?
I think that bell is scamming ALL its customers as those with them currently will probably tell you that they have gone over their limit and had to pay extra - the world is getting more and more digital, just surfing uses up much more bandwidth today than it did 5 years ago - each page is larger....
Slade
02-03-2011, 10:36 AM
I wouldn't mind. If I go away for a month and not use the internet at all will my bill be zero? NO? why not - I haven't used it right?
I think that bell is scamming ALL its customers as those with them currently will probably tell you that they have gone over their limit and had to pay extra - the world is getting more and more digital, just surfing uses up much more bandwidth today than it did 5 years ago - each page is larger....
So then you are good with ubb if it went to "pay-per-use"?
Then you can pay for each gig you download, starting with the first...that way when you go away you don't have to pay for it because your not using it right?
Lets go to my post in the other thread http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?50425-Usage-Based-Billion-Decision where I suggest that you pay an access fee for your speed package you want, and then you pay per gig of data transfer.
just to add I do not work for Bell lol
Pokey
02-03-2011, 11:28 AM
I was being sarcastic.
Actual pay for actual use will never happen as they will still have a "connection fee" or something that ensures that they get SOME money from you each month no matter what (like the gas company).
I'm more for realistic usage. 25gb these days is not very much unless all you do is a bit of surfing and some email checking. I'm sure someone on here who is a little more learned will be able to point out how much bandwidth using things like videocalling (skype) uses, or refreshing torontomazda3.ca :)
JayJay18
02-03-2011, 11:44 AM
Only DSL for now, Cable will follow in the summer (so that Rogers can pick up all the DSL customers and then screw them over).
Way to go backwards... Bell.
Avoid Bell and Rogers, support Teksavvy, Acanac and the other smaller guys.
On that note Teksavvy is by far the best internet service provider ive had soo far.
Amazing service and support and outstanding prices.
Pretty soon i will be changing my phone line to them aswell
JayJay18
02-03-2011, 11:46 AM
I was being sarcastic.
Actual pay for actual use will never happen as they will still have a "connection fee" or something that ensures that they get SOME money from you each month no matter what (like the gas company).
I'm more for realistic usage. 25gb these days is not very much unless all you do is a bit of surfing and some email checking. I'm sure someone on here who is a little more learned will be able to point out how much bandwidth using things like videocalling (skype) uses, or refreshing torontomazda3.ca :)
If that is the case prices for bigger bandwidth shouldnt be higher, but lower bandwidth prices should be lowered that way everyone is happy.
I was watching the news and the guy from Teksavvy said it costed pennies to provide 1GB of data, yet Rogers and Bell are charging 2 dollars for 1GB.
So if anything they should lower the price for the 25GB Cap
If that is the case prices for bigger bandwidth shouldnt be higher, but lower bandwidth prices should be lowered that way everyone is happy.
I was watching the news and the guy from Teksavvy said it costed pennies to provide 1GB of data, yet Rogers and Bell are charging 2 dollars for 1GB.
So if anything they should lower the price for the 25GB Cap
i don't know if that's entirely true
i mean it probably costs Teksavvy pennies....but they're not the ones providing the underlying infrastructure
Bell and Rogers need to get a fair ROI as well
then again I don't know what the real costs are
pay for use makes sense consumer wise, but not necessarily for business - bell and rogers also need to guarentee revenue for
1) their shareholders
2) future infrastructure investment
3) lining their own pockets
if the gov't has to step in to reverse the ruling, we might also end up paying for some of the future investment through taxes
which actually wouldn't be a bad thing, if only the govt wasn't so bad at wasting money lol we don't have any to spare
gabbygenier
02-03-2011, 12:02 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/crtc-will-rescind-unlimited-use-internet-decision-or-ottawa-will-overturn-it/article1892522/
cwp_sedan
02-03-2011, 12:26 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/crtc-will-rescind-unlimited-use-internet-decision-or-ottawa-will-overturn-it/article1892522/
Heard about this earlier too. At least something is actually being done about it.
JayJay18
02-03-2011, 03:10 PM
i don't know if that's entirely true
i mean it probably costs Teksavvy pennies....but they're not the ones providing the underlying infrastructure
Bell and Rogers need to get a fair ROI as well
then again I don't know what the real costs are
pay for use makes sense consumer wise, but not necessarily for business - bell and rogers also need to guarentee revenue for
1) their shareholders
2) future infrastructure investment
3) lining their own pockets
if the gov't has to step in to reverse the ruling, we might also end up paying for some of the future investment through taxes
which actually wouldn't be a bad thing, if only the govt wasn't so bad at wasting money lol we don't have any to spare
Well Bell and Rogers do still make lots of money from the lease of their lines so in the end the revenue is a bunch of bs on their part because they have lots.
Thats another thing Bell says that they are experience overload on their systems.
Well why not use the billions of dollars in profit you get every year and upgrade the system.
They are just afraid of competition because they are seeing a decrease in sales. If they want to compete with all the smaller companies then they should atleast lower their prices to be more competitive.
Thats my 2cents
bman13
02-03-2011, 06:02 PM
Well Bell and Rogers do still make lots of money from the lease of their lines so in the end the revenue is a bunch of bs on their part because they have lots.
Thats another thing Bell says that they are experience overload on their systems.
Well why not use the billions of dollars in profit you get every year and upgrade the system.
They are just afraid of competition because they are seeing a decrease in sales. If they want to compete with all the smaller companies then they should atleast lower their prices to be more competitive.
Thats my 2cents
That's too logical for them though...changing business strategies when their buddies = CRTC? why do that...
Just finished watching the hearing...first off Konrad W. von Finckenstein is a clown. He said that consumers are only effected not businesses. Also, majority of people don't go over their cap and if they need to use more, they can purchase a higher tier. Any hard questions thrown at him or his colleagues they struggled to answer besides some gibberish about money made = re-investment (fact: competition also breeds investment). Didn't have any answer on how any of the recent decisions in past 5 yrs having helped consumers. Said that "three-dimensional gaming and online video" are what causes people to use more data, not things like skype (when referred to concern of soldiers using skype to communicate with love ones oversees and them being punished). Also, they are delaying the implementation of UBB and are going to spend 60 days reviewing....which means 'Yo homeboys (big 3)...come on, we can't fully line your pockets with money, sorry but we going to actually have to try to attempt to care about consumers"
Cliffs: - Konrad W. von Finckenstein is a clown and way past his time and has no idea what he is talking about
- They are delaying UBB and are going to spend 60 days 'reviewing' the issue
- They could not provide any sort of data on how they have come to any of their recent decisions that are supposedly to help consumers
- They said that the extra money made by ISP's will cause them to reinvest and help the Canadian consumers
- First says that due to congestion stated by Bell, UBB is needed when critical data needs to be transferred by businesses but then says businesses usually have different/direct connections that are not shared by consumers
- "Three-dimensional gaming and online video" are the root of why people go over their caps
Biggest bunch of crock I've ever witnessed...I'd believe some prince in *****ia asking for money over an email then these clowns from the CRTC smh.
i missed the first 20 minutes but from what i saw during the rest of the hearing it really scares and bothers me how these people in such high positions of power have the slightest clue about the internet. I cringed when finckenstein referred to average use as 25MB (only to be corrected) and when the other crtc chairman referred to 1GB as 1Mhz (was not corrected). Also finckenstein kept saying that it would only affect a small amount of users and not existing bell/rogers customers because caps are already in place, but correct me if i am wrong when i say thats bullshit. Bell and rogers are reducing caps to 25gb for all users from 75gb/60gb/80-95gb respectively.
Also many of these MP's are woefully ignorant of the issue as well since many of them wasted their allotted 5-7mins time asking ridiculous questions such as "how will UBB affect farmers in quebec?" Not one of them asked were the crtc/bells facts came from, what is the price of a gb etc...wtf! it scares me that these people have the authority to decide/influence issues about which they have no clue. I hope we dont have these dinosaurs (referring to video games as "3 dimensional gaming") and ignoramuses discussing UBB at the next hearing. George Burger needs to be there asap...
EDIT: keep signing the petition, we are at 400,000+. It is the one thing that caught everyone attentions and was referred to as the main cause of concern and the reason for the hearing
http://stopthemeter.ca/
whiteomega
02-03-2011, 10:00 PM
There's an old networking saying: "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of data tapes speeding down the highway."
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