Newb 3 driver, need some advice

[Jap]

Hello everyone, 3 weeks ago I finally bought my first car. :) And its a '07 Black mica 4dr 3GX with a manual transmission. I've never driven any other standard cars before, so learning how to drive stick was pretty tough but, also a very rewarding process for me.

I would say that right now, I'm driving normally but.. after reading a couple of threads and posts here and in different forums, I found out that I have developed some pretty bad driving habits and I need some advice from more experienced drivers... My friend who thought me how to drive stick is not good at explaining things very well and he also has these 'bad driving habits' as well..

My main concern right now is downshifting. I was thought by my friend that downshifting is only an option and that I don't have to do it.. And I believed him coz I don't ever see or hear him rev match when he's driving. When I ask him to show me how to rev match, he would do it so well.. So I'm kinda dumbfounded as to why he doesn't apply it to his normal driving.

I was told to just put it in neutral while coming near a stop and just 'coast' while braking. Now, I don't have problems upshifting and I know where the shift points are.. so I can get the car going pretty fast rather smoothly. The problem comes when I'm approaching a red light or a stop. What I do is dump it into neutral and brake slowly. And I realize this is very wrong coz sometimes when a green light catches me offguard while I'm 'neutral coasting'. I panic a little and I have to look at my dashboard to see if I should put it on 3rd or 2nd. And when I engage the gear on either 2nd or 3rd, I end up jerking the car. :bang

And also when I'm approaching a right turn on a green light going 60 on 4th gear. Instead of downshifting and preparing for the turn. I would just put it on neutral then brake till I'm slow enough so that I can clutch in, then put it on 2nd... But keeping the clutch in as I turn.. then easing off the clutch as I give it a bit of gas to get going on 2nd as I'm coming out of my turn. :bang

I feel like I'm a danger to my car and to people out there. I asked my friends, my dad, and some of the experienced drivers at my work about my problem. And they all say the same thing, "As long as it works and you're comfortable driving that way, then you'll be fine".

How should I go about correcting myself? :( Should I just keep practicing? This morning I tried practicing 3rd > 2nd and my car still gets pretty jerky. When I try to revmatch though, I'm not quite sure at what speed I should be at. I end up hesitating, acting pretty slow, or losing a step and confuse my way back to the same old habits.


Sorry about the long post :P
I love my 3! and I'm looking forward to doin' it up in the future! :D

[sol_searchin]

You don't have to downshift when slowing down to say a red light or a stop, but when your slowing down in traffic or turn than ya you should down shift. NEVER have the clutch in when turning that's really dangerous, expecially if you have to react quickly or just in case your foot slips off the clutch pedal and you have it in gear it's to much of a risk. Rev matching is fairly simple, it improves over time as you feel out your car and you sync the gas/clutch better. Easiest way to rev match is tap the gas pedal just before letting go of the clutch to engage your lower gear. Don't rev match driving 100km/hr in 3rd to 2nd because obviously that will cause a crazy jerk lol you have to keep your speed in range of a down shift (ex. 3rd driving 50km/hr is fine to downshift to 2nd WHILE slowing down)

[Jap]

You don't have to downshift when slowing down to say a red light or a stop, but when your slowing down in traffic or turn than ya you should down shift. NEVER have the clutch in when turning that's really dangerous, expecially if you have to react quickly or just in case your foot slips off the clutch pedal and you have it in gear it's to much of a risk. Rev matching is fairly simple, it improves over time as you feel out your car and you sync the gas/clutch better. Easiest way to rev match is tap the gas pedal just before letting go of the clutch to engage your lower gear. Don't rev match driving 100km/hr in 3rd to 2nd because obviously that will cause a crazy jerk lol you have to keep your speed in range of a down shift (ex. 3rd driving 50km/hr is fine to downshift to 2nd WHILE slowing down)

This is how I'm trying to do it:
-at 3rd going 45-50 km/h
-Start braking down to 30-40 km/h
-at 1.5 rpm clutch in
-rev match, blip gas to 2 or 3 rpm, while shifting gear down to 2nd
-ease off the clutch the same way I do when shifting up

^Is that a correct way of doing it? I still get that little jerking motion, but is it because I'm still a little slow at doing everything at once even though I believe I'm doing it the proper way? What if I do it this way;

-start slowing down
-clutch in
-blip the gas to 2-3 rpm
-then slide the gear down from 3rd to 2nd.
-ease off the clutch

^Is this a wrong way of doing it? Whats the difference between the two method regarding to as how it will affect my car in the long run?

And at what speed do you guys shift down from 4th to 3rd? Is it ok to just slow down and skip 3rd when downshifting for a turn?

Thanks for the reply sol_searchin, I appreciate it much!

[djdusk]

You might just be overthinking things, I know I did when I first started driving stick about 6 years ago. I kept thinking what RPM should I shift, when should I clutch in, ect ect.
It just takes times and soon it will all be second nature, You won't even think about what you are doing.

For me, I always just throw it in neutral when coming to a stop and if the light changes I just quickly match up the rpms and throw her in gear. You will get to know your car and it will get less jerky each time you do it. It will just take some time behind the wheel that is all. The previous poster mentioned something about never having your clutch in during a turn, I do this all the time, as I normally will pop it in 2nd or 3rd on the apex and shoot out of it. Have been doing it this way for 6 years and don't see a problem with it.
I guess I do it because most of the time I am taking the turn at to high of a speed to be in second gear, but then when I want my acceleration back I throw it in gear.

[Kappa]

hey man i was almost in the same boat as you not long ago! i found i was always always taking it out of gear and braking or just leaving my clutch in when turning and things like this!

KISS! keep it simple stupid! haha trust me once you learn your car you wont need gauge anymore and you will have a blast driving! take it one step at a time and soon you will find your self shifting with out thinking about it! also you will be able to tell what gear you should be in going around corners as well!

your not going to mess up your car unless you ride the clutch or try to shift into first on the highway lol lets see some pictures !

edit: ill add this! at first when i was learning how to down shift i just let the clutch out slow! and let it down that way

then i learned to rev match a little bit. now at the current moment i have a good friend who drives race cars who is teaching me how to double clutch and heel toe! lots of fun just make sure you are safe with out cars or ditches around when first trying

[SomeGuy]

City driving this is what I do slowing for a turn from 60km/h in 4th gear:

- Coast/Brake until I'm at around 40km/h
- Clutch In, shifter into 3rd
- Blip gas to match up revs
- Slip clutch back out to match
- Repeat again at 20km/h into 2nd for the turn
- Turn, accelerate as normal.

If I'm really pushing it, those shift points can become higher though...sometimes it'll be 3rd at 60km/h and 2nd at 30km/h.

To come to a stop I do the same but only downshift into third and let the revs drop all the way down to 1-1.5k and then clutch in and brake to a stop. 1k in 3rd is about 10-15km/h so you're usually ok.

If I'm driving up to a stop and the light turns, I'll clutch in, 2nd gear, blip to rev match and let off on the clutch and go.

The thing is it takes practice and time to be able to do these sort of things smoothly so just keep practicing. Surprisingly I find it easier if I'm trying to shift faster than if I'm trying to shift slow and gentle, it's actually smoother. Just go out and drive around the block a bunch of times where there isn't much traffic and while you're going along at say 50km/h in 4th, just try rev matching into 3rd and 2nd over and over. If you smell the clutch then it's time to stop, otherwise the jerkyness is not really hurting your car.

[Jap]

Thanks for the input guys! I guess I just need a little more patience and practice to get better at it. This afternoon as I was driving my bro to the mall, I tried practicing 4th to 3rd downshift without rev-matching (just going with the feel of my car) and it turned out ok. I was expecting it to jerk bad but it turned out to be barely noticeable when I eased off the clutch. The thing is I rarely look at my gauges when it comes to shifting (especially the tach) coz when I do, I end up 'thinking' and analyzing the situation. And that = to a slow reaction time and poor execution.

Can anyone answer my question above^ if its ok for me to clutch in, blip the gas, and then shift down? (Instead of blipping and shifting at the same time)
And also this question:

And at what speed do you guys shift down from 4th to 3rd? Is it ok to just slow down and skip 3rd when downshifting for a turn?


Thanks again for the feedback, I will post pics after I get a car wash. :) I heard its gonna snow tomorrow again though :bang

[Jap]

City driving this is what I do slowing for a turn from 60km/h in 4th gear:

- Coast/Brake until I'm at around 40km/h
- Clutch In, shifter into 3rd
- Blip gas to match up revs
- Slip clutch back out to match
- Repeat again at 20km/h into 2nd for the turn
- Turn, accelerate as normal.

If I'm really pushing it, those shift points can become higher though...sometimes it'll be 3rd at 60km/h and 2nd at 30km/h.

To come to a stop I do the same but only downshift into third and let the revs drop all the way down to 1-1.5k and then clutch in and brake to a stop. 1k in 3rd is about 10-15km/h so you're usually ok.

If I'm driving up to a stop and the light turns, I'll clutch in, 2nd gear, blip to rev match and let off on the clutch and go.

The thing is it takes practice and time to be able to do these sort of things smoothly so just keep practicing. Surprisingly I find it easier if I'm trying to shift faster than if I'm trying to shift slow and gentle, it's actually smoother. Just go out and drive around the block a bunch of times where there isn't much traffic and while you're going along at say 50km/h in 4th, just try rev matching into 3rd and 2nd over and over. If you smell the clutch then it's time to stop, otherwise the jerkyness is not really hurting your car.

Thanks for the tip SomeGuy! I'll keep that in mind when I shift down from 4th > 3rd.

[Hyperion]

It's all about learning about what gear your car can go into while slowing down, since the speed gap going down from say 4th - 3rd is much larger than the speed gap going from 3rd - 4th.
I only match my revs perfectly when upshifting with no clutch if I get lazy, otherwise matching isn't 100% essential if you know how to use your clutch smoothly. Just keep in mind that using your clutch to slow you down is not going to save you money really in the long run. Transmissions cost more than brakes :P. Throwing it into neutral for a light is fine.

[The Wolf]

to expand on this topic…

Am I going to kill my clutch by not rev matching when downshifting? For instance, shifting from 3rd into 2nd and slowly letting the clutch out (say, over the space of 1-1.5 sec).Common sense says obviously I am putting more wear on the clutch, but is this a terrible habit? My dad taught me to drive stick, and said he's never worn out a clutch in his life… and he never mentioned rev matching while downshifting.

I feel like an idiot for waiting so long to get an answer for this lol

Also, heel-toe shifting on these cars is nearly impossible if you have size 10 or smaller feet, like me hahaha

[PR3Y11]

^ not impossible actually pretty easy to do
i'd have to say slightly more difficultly positioned than the honda line, but as soon as you find that comfort spot it's pretty natural

> to op, just take your time with it, the more you drive the better you'll get to know your car and how to drive it. you'll get to a point where you wont even have to think about what you're doing, it'll be like your arms and legs have a mind of its own, just keep practicing. if you get a chance to meet up with some of the members on here maybe they'll show you in person/give you a mini lesson which is a lot better than listing it out online. gl with the learning process and congrats on your new ride

[Meaty G]

As some have said, don't over think it. It seems like you are trying to make driving your car very technical. You will never shift perfect every time. I know I don't. I have a more spirited driving style, so I like the RPMs up there, but that's me. Everyone is different. When you are downshifting, and you say your car is "jerking" are you letting out the clutch quickly or "dumping" it? It should be a smooth clutch release. This is where you may be experiencing that "jerking" sensation. Keep practicing. The more you drive, the more it will become second nature. Like others have said, you won't even think about it, you will just do it.

[Kappa]

to expand on this topic…

Am I going to kill my clutch by not rev matching when downshifting? For instance, shifting from 3rd into 2nd and slowly letting the clutch out (say, over the space of 1-1.5 sec).Common sense says obviously I am putting more wear on the clutch, but is this a terrible habit? My dad taught me to drive stick, and said he's never worn out a clutch in his life… and he never mentioned rev matching while downshifting.


I feel like an idiot for waiting so long to get an answer for this lol

Also, heel-toe shifting on these cars is nearly impossible if you have size 10 or smaller feet, like me hahaha

correct me if im wrong everyone but if you over rev match you can run the rish of glazing your clutch although i dont see it happing on a 3 but you never know right

[sol_searchin]

Ya don't drop the clutch into a gear, that put's stress on the clutch. Heel/toe is easy on the 3, it's almost perfectly setup for that (size 12 foot lol)

[The Wolf]

guess I have some homework then.

[SomeGuy]

Ya don't drop the clutch into a gear, that put's stress on the clutch. Heel/toe is easy on the 3, it's almost perfectly setup for that (size 12 foot lol)

I would disagree, heal toe is almost impossible with the pedal setup on the 3. The only thing that really works is under hard braking if you use the side of your foot to blip the gas but that definitely does not work for street driving.

[slam525i]

Practice, practice, and more practice.

Don't look inside your car. You can judge the speed and thus the shift points and RPM required by looking outside, and hearing the engine. There's nothing to it except more practice. Just force yourself to rev match your way down every gear and you'll get the hang of it through practice. Riding the clutch for a smooth downshift instead of rev matching is more likely to glaze your clutch as you're spending more time under clutch slip.

Heel to toe is possible in the 3; you just need to get work your way up to it. Don't think about it until you're very comfortable with downshifting without thinking. After that, you can work on heel-toe and double-clutching.

[Mazdy]

:welcome smiley

[sol_searchin]

I have no issue, running just oem all weather mat's.



I would disagree, heal toe is almost impossible with the pedal setup on the 3. The only thing that really works is under hard braking if you use the side of your foot to blip the gas but that definitely does not work for street driving.

[Zuluwun]

No worries OP, having been teaching myself to drive stick since I got my car in Nov last year, I know exactly how you feel. Stick with it and with practice you'll get better. Analyzing your shifts is cool as long as your eyes spend more time outside the car than in (you know, being aware of OTHER cars, pedestrians, traffic signals etc lol). In time, you'll stop, cuz you'll know without having to look. For your clutch's sake though, please rev match properly. it sounds like you've got the concept though.


to expand on this topic…

Am I going to kill my clutch by not rev matching when downshifting? For instance, shifting from 3rd into 2nd and slowly letting the clutch out (say, over the space of 1-1.5 sec).Common sense says obviously I am putting more wear on the clutch, but is this a terrible habit?

Also, heel-toe shifting on these cars is nearly impossible if you have size 10 or smaller feet, like me hahaha


Common sense says you're right, but I doubt clutches are quite that fragile. As I understand it, the only time you're wearing your clutch is when the clutch is used to match an RPM difference between transmission and engine speeds. (I think of it like trying to grab something that's spinning vs when it's not)

+1 on the heel-toe thing (my shoes are size 9.5). I'm thinking of changing my pedals specifically for that reason.


You don't have to downshift when slowing down to say a red light or a stop, but when your slowing down in traffic or turn than ya you should down shift. NEVER have the clutch in when turning that's really dangerous, expecially if you have to react quickly or just in case your foot slips off the clutch pedal and you have it in gear it's to much of a risk.

Really? oops. Obviously, it makes sense to finish your shifting before you turn in (I don't have track experience, that's just my logic), so most of the time I'll try. But if I can't, the clutch stays in through about half the turn.


Practice, practice, and more practice.

Don't look inside your car. You can judge the speed and thus the shift points and RPM required by looking outside, and hearing the engine. There's nothing to it except more practice.

Heel to toe is possible in the 3; you just need to get work your way up to it. Don't think about it until you're very comfortable with downshifting without thinking. After that, you can work on heel-toe and double-clutching.

So true now that you mention it. I find I shift better when the music's turned down hahaha.

Click (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?50646-Do-You-Drive-a-Manual-or-Automatic/page4) for more of slam525i's (and others') wisdom on the subject of rev-matching and clutch/synchro wear (not that I'm tryina blow sunshine up your ass slam525i, I just think you share useful info :thumbsup)

[slam525i]

Haha. Thanks, Zuluwun.

Hey, if you blow sunshine up my ass and I fart when it rains, will I'll fart rainbows?

[Zuluwun]

Haha. Thanks, Zuluwun.

Hey, if you blow sunshine up my ass and I fart when it rains, will I'll fart rainbows?

-_- and now you're reading too much into it. bahahah. try it sometime, tell me how it goes :chuckle