Want to track?

[condor888000]

Be careful who you choose to go with.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vreUlIu3-x4&feature=youtu.be

Laundry list of VERY dangerous activities.

Too many cars too close together, no helmets, haybales on track (are for bikers not cars), STOPPING IN THE MIDDLE OF A TRACK THAT IS STILL HOT, spectators jumping the pit wall while track is still hot, etc.

This is exactly why you should only go to an event where you know the organizers will be safe. Kplayground (this is someone else) is a classic example of who NOT to go with for all the above reasons, plus no flags, no drivers meeting, no tow truck, no ambulance, no tech, etc.

Motorsports clubs are a decent place to start, though often their "instructors" are merely members who have been driving the track a while. Some clubs (MCO for certain) have more rigorious standards, but you would have to look into it yourself.

Schools are a great place to start. I know some members here did the Ian Law school last year, BMW Car Clubs tend to put on excellent schools as well.

Tracking your car can be an amazing experience and I suggest everyone try it at least once. Just choose the right enviroment.

[Airman Jack]

Sage advice. Not to mention that its highly unlikely your insurance would cover you if you hit a wall during a track day. Some policies do have a clause for 'recognized driver training', and you can occasionally get away with that. Regardless, don't call it a "track day", call it a "driving school" if you ask your insurance about it ;)

[condor888000]

Oh it gets worse for the driver. Apparently the guy driving the car borrowed it from a friend...who borrowed it from his brother...who was out of the country.

Borrowing cars to track or autox is a REALLY stupid idea. You never know what might happen.

[gabbygenier]

Borrowing cars to track or autox is a REALLY stupid idea. You never know what might happen.

I think he speaks of experience here :)

[-RJ3-]

I hope this doesnt shut down Cayuga's event because of the items OP mentioned.... Im sure this Video is Viral!!!

[MajesticBlueNTO]

I hope this doesnt shut down Cayuga's event because of the items OP mentioned.... Im sure this Video is Viral!!!

TMP isn't off to a good start this year... 2 gong shows 2 weekends in a row: 1) last weekend with Team SLS 2) this event at CSCS

AutoBlog has a story on it (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/06/07/evil-hay-bales-reach-out-and-flip-subaru-in-front-of-cameraman/) ...as well as the Canadian Autoblog site (http://ca.autoblog.com/2011/06/07/impreza-rs-flips-right-in-front-of-cameraman-at-toronto-motorspo/)

Condor makes some excellent points

[BMWWW]

:bang:bang
That many cars head-to-tail...

[taz4432]

And to think I was going to go out lapping/time attack with them that day.

I didn't realize how poorly organized the lapping is. Definitely won't be going there anytime soon if things don't change.

Condor makes some very good points...those new to tracking would be wise to heed his words.

[condor888000]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/GlennSter/CSCS/cscs393.jpg

The aftermath. All it takes is ONE in attentive driver coming into that corner too fast now and the shit would really hit the fan. And with no corner flaggers to alert drivers, that's a real possibility. Now, not every event that should have flaggers does. Last Shannonville day I was at was organized by a motorsports club and they did not use flaggers. But they did monitor the number of cars on track, and had "advisors" to help people get the line down. While not where it should be, at least it's a start!

Thanks for the support guys, I hope this is just a one off event for them and they tighten things up. More track days are great! Provided that they're safe that is. You only get one life.

Honestly, I'm less worried about the driver of the car than those of the car behind him. He had a helmet on at least. A mistake was made, he walked away. Nothing better than that. I just can't get over all the cars stopped in the middle of the track, with people running to the car!

Like I've said, I strongly support learning your limits on the track. I just suggest you research your options and find a group with a huge emphasis on safety. They normally cost more...but I'll happily pay extra for more safety.

[taz4432]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v455/GlennSter/CSCS/cscs393.jpg

The aftermath. All it takes is ONE in attentive driver coming into that corner too fast now and the shit would really hit the fan. And with no corner flaggers to alert drivers, that's a real possibility. Now, not every event that should have flaggers does. Last Shannonville day I was at was organized by a motorsports club and they did not use flaggers. But they did monitor the number of cars on track, and had "advisors" to help people get the line down. While not where it should be, at least it's a start!

Thanks for the support guys, I hope this is just a one off event for them and they tighten things up. More track days are great! Provided that they're safe that is. You only get one life.

Honestly, I'm less worried about the driver of the car than those of the car behind him. He had a helmet on at least. A mistake was made, he walked away. Nothing better than that. I just can't get over all the cars stopped in the middle of the track, with people running to the car!

Like I've said, I strongly support learning your limits on the track. I just suggest you research your options and find a group with a huge emphasis on safety. They normally cost more...but I'll happily pay extra for more safety.

Agreed 100% and I've had similar experiences at Shannonville which is <30 mins from me and where I've gone quite a few times, although helmets haven't always been mandatory every time I've gone there but they always limit the number of cars and space them out when going on the track.

Part of the reason I love going out with Sigma Racing Time Attack so much is how well organized it is and how safe everything/everyone is. The timers, time attack, refreshments, etc. are just added bonus!

[SKYMP3]

I agree, they just let any cars to get in aslong as the entrance point is traffic free to go.

Drivers are there to race, not "lapping" and that's how drama happen, everyone want to be faster than the other one. Illegal passing, follow way to close, etc....

[Iceman_F1]

:whoa That's pretty crazy.

I was there last year. Didn't seem all that bad of a track and nothing major happened there (I think someone had a minor off or his car stopped working and he pulled off to the run-off area) but I can see how this could happen. Everyone before that guy seemed to have a good line but he seemed to be running a bit too wide for that corner.

Glad to hear the driver walked away from it.

[FoXy]

repost ppl... this is inthe cscs June 5th Thread.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?52613-CSCS-June-5th&highlight=cscs

[mleblond]

either way you see this, their events are still safe. This incident happen with the novice group where passing is only allowed on the straight (reason for the line up). And helmets are not mandatory (TMP rules same as SMP) but CSCS will make it mandatory from now on and make some adjustments I am sure.

Also I am glad the idiot driver crashed on the track vs crashing on the public roads and harming innocent bystanders.

That being said, it is budget lapping and you cannot compare it to an actual pro event where you pay 300$+ for lapping to cover cost of Marshall's and ambulance and anything else for that matter.

This is the first incident in 7.5 years and the hay bales have been there for 7.5 years also. I find it funny when CASC users think they are much better than anyone else when in reality these guys are the same people who support and help CASC be where they are today.

[sp3GT]

I went tracking a few weeks ago at DDT and loved it but after seeing this accident I have 2nd thoughts.

I've been looking to go to another lapping day and it seems like the most popular/affordable ones around here are held by Touge/Kplayground. These lapping days are generally ~100, I've never been so I can't say how safe it is?

But for those on here that have been tracking for a while, would you guys recommend? Or what's a reputable group to go with if not?

[mleblond]

Respect the car and everyone/everything else around you and drive within your limits and you will be fine.

[Iceman_F1]

I went tracking a few weeks ago at DDT and loved it but after seeing this accident I have 2nd thoughts.

I've been looking to go to another lapping day and it seems like the most popular/affordable ones around here are held by Touge/Kplayground. These lapping days are generally ~100, I've never been so I can't say how safe it is?

But for those on here that have been tracking for a while, would you guys recommend? Or what's a reputable group to go with if not?

I've done lapping with Touge a couple of times last year. Once at Shannonville and the other at Cayuga. Both times I felt very safe and things seemed well done. People seemed responsible. As long as you follow the rules or point out who doesn't if you are uncomfortable with the person breaking the rules, that's all that matters. An example was at Cayuga, one person passed me when I was least expecting it and I didn't signal that he could pass (I didn't think he was close enough to pass before the corner). I was very uncomfortable with that so shortly after, I pulled off to notify the organizers and they pulled the guy aside and talked to him. Whether he learned or not doesn't matter to me, it showed they care and want to make things as safe as possible.

I also remember at Cayuga when a guy broke down, they were pretty quick to wave flags and signal everyone in to let the car get off the track before restarting.


Respect the car and everyone/everything else around you and drive within your limits and you will be fine.

+1. To me, doesn't matter which group you go lapping with, if you respect the car/everyone else, there's no reason something like this would happen.

[bman13]

What is the logic of having the hay bale there?

[S.F.W.]

What is the logic of having the hay bale there?

Motorcycle racers can go sliding off their bikes. Hay bales prevent them from hitting the wall.

[condor888000]

Exactly, however cars should NOT have bales there. If it wasn't there the poor line looks like it would have cleared the wall anyway, and if it didn't the damage would be confined to some body and paint work. Instead that car is totalled.


either way you see this, their events are still safe. This incident happen with the novice group where passing is only allowed on the straight (reason for the line up). And helmets are not mandatory (TMP rules same as SMP) but CSCS will make it mandatory from now on and make some adjustments I am sure.

They're safe? Wonderful! I guess you don't need a head to keep living, hence no helmets is perfectly safe. And I guess stopping in the MIDDLE OF A HOT TRACK is perfectly safe! I mean, in a novice group there's no way someone would get the red mist and simply not see a couple cars right?


Also I am glad the idiot driver crashed on the track vs crashing on the public roads and harming innocent bystanders.

I'll agree with this, though he very nearly *did* harm innocent bystanders, not to mention how close those cars behind him came to collecting him, or being collected themselves.


That being said, it is budget lapping and you cannot compare it to an actual pro event where you pay 300$+ for lapping to cover cost of Marshall's and ambulance and anything else for that matter.

But you can. They're run on the same tracks with the same goal. You just pay more for one in order to ensure that there are additional measures in place should the worst happen, and to gain at least some instruction. I like knowing that there's an ambulance no more than 2 minutes away if it's needed. I'm willing to pay extra for that.


This is the first incident in 7.5 years and the hay bales have been there for 7.5 years also.

Only dumb luck this was the first time. Especially if the bales were there the entire time.


I find it funny when CASC users think they are much better than anyone else when in reality these guys are the same people who support and help CASC be where they are today.

Somehow I doubt the people running without helmets, stopping on track and getting out of the cars are the same ones who run CASC club events with regularity. Any of those things would get you a stern talking to if not getting you booted from a CASC event.


I went tracking a few weeks ago at DDT and loved it but after seeing this accident I have 2nd thoughts.

I've been looking to go to another lapping day and it seems like the most popular/affordable ones around here are held by Touge/Kplayground. These lapping days are generally ~100, I've never been so I can't say how safe it is?

But for those on here that have been tracking for a while, would you guys recommend? Or what's a reputable group to go with if not?

I've never seen a Togue day so I won't comment about them.

Like I said earlier, some guys have had luck with the Ian Law School (could have that name wrong, someone jump in to correct?). Up near Ottawa MCO, the BMW Car Club, and Midnight Runs are good groups for Calabogie. MR is more for experienced guys though. Closer to Toronto, SPDA does some cool stuff at DDT with their ATTS series. Not a school, but a good entry level track experience. And of course there are always CASC events, but those are lapping in the morning, with time attacks later in the day. Bit more serious.

I'd suggest trying a school first, and talking to the instructors to see who they recommend for your skill level.

I don't like KPlayground. I was a spectator at one event and swore never to go near them again. Here's why:

1. My buddy was passed on the inside of the Fabi kink out of nowhere. He had to take the drag strip and try to stop because he was going to hit the guy if he turned in. Organizers didn't care when it was brought to their attention.
2. Multiple cars running off track, then the drivers got out...then the drivers were almost CREAMED by another car that went off in the same spot.
3. No drivers meeting to lay down ground rules...hell no ground rules!
4. No limit on the number of cars on track.
5. No ambluance. Only tow truck was a Honda Element that was failing miserably.
6. Hay bales were along the front straight at SMP, one was knocked over. Instead of stopping traffic to get it back up 2 organizers jump pit wall, grab it, and nearly get hit by 3 different cars coming around the last corner.
7. Guy getting track head as he came down the front straight. Seriously, his girl's head was in his lap and she was going at it pretty damn good.

Those are the things I witnessed first hand at ONE event. If you include the stupidity that I've been told about the list would be far longer.


I've done lapping with Touge a couple of times last year. Once at Shannonville and the other at Cayuga. Both times I felt very safe and things seemed well done. People seemed responsible. As long as you follow the rules or point out who doesn't if you are uncomfortable with the person breaking the rules, that's all that matters. An example was at Cayuga, one person passed me when I was least expecting it and I didn't signal that he could pass (I didn't think he was close enough to pass before the corner). I was very uncomfortable with that so shortly after, I pulled off to notify the organizers and they pulled the guy aside and talked to him. Whether he learned or not doesn't matter to me, it showed they care and want to make things as safe as possible.

I also remember at Cayuga when a guy broke down, they were pretty quick to wave flags and signal everyone in to let the car get off the track before restarting.

That's great to hear, unfortunately KPG seems to have no desire to improve in that respect.

Yes, you can go to the cheap events and odds are you'll walk away fine. But the risks are lower with groups that cost more. You pay more for a reason after all.

[Airman Jack]

7. Guy getting track head as he came down the front straight. Seriously, his girl's head was in his lap and she was going at it pretty damn good.

I don't think anyone will argue with me that this is fricking awesome.

Inappropriate, sure. But awesome.

[Iceman_F1]

That's great to hear, unfortunately KPG seems to have no desire to improve in that respect.

Yes, you can go to the cheap events and odds are you'll walk away fine. But the risks are lower with groups that cost more. You pay more for a reason after all.

I will admit that Touge doesn't enforce helmet use (unless you have a convertible) nor have any emergency standby. However every time I've gone, they've done a drivers meeting to lay down their rules and go over the passing zones. They also seem to care about peoples levels of experience when the number of cars allows for it (Cayuga they ran novice and experience separate) so it's one I'm willing to do for inexpensive lapping in the area.

But I'm sure in any lapping even, you'll eventually get those who don't follow the rules or make a mistake so it's how the group handles those situations that makes it whether I'd go back or not.

You do make a lot of valid points though!

[mleblond]

Exactly, however cars should NOT have bales there. If it wasn't there the poor line looks like it would have cleared the wall anyway, and if it didn't the damage would be confined to some body and paint work. Instead that car is totalled.

Bales are there to stay, you of all people should know this isnt autocross. If you dont take the proper race line you will run off the track, in this case the driver took the apex 4 feet away when in reality this is a second gear turn with the speed 3 as it slows you down right before the straight. only difference is the guy was driving a rhd car and never even thought he would hit when in reality he didn't know his distances. he never slowed down the whole time just tried to power through the turn.




They're safe? Wonderful! I guess you don't need a head to keep living, hence no helmets is perfectly safe. And I guess stopping in the MIDDLE OF A HOT TRACK is perfectly safe! I mean, in a novice group there's no way someone would get the red mist and simply not see a couple cars right?

helmets are not mandatory, track rules. They are Mandatory when it's Time Attack because they know you are pushing the car at that point. If you are alive and have a brain then you would wear your helmet at all times, it isnt against the rules. people running on the track, they are novice drivers and don't have a racing license, would you expect anything else? knowing you need to slow down in the end part of the track, other hot cars would see people are stopped, so it's not like this was in a blind corner over a crest.




I'll agree with this, though he very nearly *did* harm innocent bystanders, not to mention how close those cars behind him came to collecting him, or being collected themselves.
risk of the game, honestly this is getting to be bigger than it really is, some one should CGI an explosion at the end and have zombies come out of it.




But you can. They're run on the same tracks with the same goal. You just pay more for one in order to ensure that there are additional measures in place should the worst happen, and to gain at least some instruction. I like knowing that there's an ambulance no more than 2 minutes away if it's needed. I'm willing to pay extra for that.

There,s ambulance on site at the drag strip. They have a mandatory drivers meeting where if you don,t attend, you dont get to lap, and is pretty extensive. Remember this is the biggest show with the most stuff going on at once. Casc has nothing on them in terms of attendance.




Only dumb luck this was the first time. Especially if the bales were there the entire time.
again, one bad apple doesn't mean the whole tree needs to be cut down. I am sure if the driver wasn't as wreck-less it would of never happen. he definitely drove it like he stole it :P




Somehow I doubt the people running without helmets, stopping on track and getting out of the cars are the same ones who run CASC club events with regularity. Any of those things would get you a stern talking to if not getting you booted from a CASC event.

I meant organizers as CSCS brings in participants that do not part take in CASC events. but CSCS is well involved in the CASC history. So your attacking the same people you are protecting...or shitting where you eat

[rzapata]

This is just incredible!!! I've not tracked my whole life (but planning to - just preparing my car for it) but it just seems he's a bit wide on the turn.. Maybe a little too fast as well..

Glad to hear the driver was ok though.. And to all trackers, good luck, and be safe always....

[Howi]

There's a similar discussion on the rx8club, where I posted the same information.

This is the recent experience at CSCS from one of our racers:

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com/forums/member-journals/145442-bdon22s-journal-becoming-better-driver-13.html#post1253885


CSCS was pretty much an epic fail for me.

I thought I was arriving early at 9:30AM but turns out it wasn't early enough. By the time I got registered and into the pit area there were no spots left. I had to go to the very end, but still ended up in someone's spot. One of the drifters was kind enough to lend me his spot while he went for qualifying though. It was a start ... at least I had a place to change my tires lol.

Since I was in such a scramble to get my car set up, and was all the way at the end of the pit lane I totally missed the drivers meeting (despite having full intentions on going to it - I was running down the pit to make it to the tent but just missed it when I got there). This set the pace for the rest of the day ... I basically had no idea what was going on and it was super packed and super hot outside

Lapping run #1, on the first hot lap, one of the cars ahead of me blew his engine right before T2 and spewed white smoke and oil all over the track. I cut speed and then slid on the slick track surface going into T2. I also noticed a bit of rubbing noise with my taller 235/45/17 RA-1's. Lapping session #1 was pretty much a write-off because of the oil on the track so I pitted early to adjust some of my settings.
YouTube - ‪CSCS June 5th - Oily Track‬‏

Lapping run #2 was a little better but not by much. I forgot to record it on my camera. For most of this session I was stuck behind a blue R32 who was driving like a jackass and not letting me pass. He fish tailed every corner and a few times I had to slam on the brakes to avoid rear ending him from his spin... then on the main straight I would pull to the right hoping to pass him, but he had more power than me and would not let me pass despite being blue flagged I was hoping the "experienced" lapping group wouldn't have people like this but I was wrong.

Lapping run #3 was also cut short when I overheated my brakes going into T10 right after the double chicane. I slammed on the brakes but -- nothing. I went straight off into grass cutting mode and then exited the track shortly after to check for damage. Luckily, none. But by this point all the weeds/grass that I caught in my dust shields were starting to smoke up I cleaned them out quickly with a long screwdriver and then hopped in my car to try and get some air flow to them. The problem was... it was so packed with spectators I literally couldn't get anywhere LOL. Driving up the pit lane on the main straight and back must have taken me 10 minutes! Ridiculous...

Anyway, at this point it was time for lunch. It was hard to find parking with 6000 people walking around and a pit lane that was 150% booked so I parked in parallel to the staging lanes with my 2 RH tires barely on the tarmac (plenty of space for people to still drive by me). Fast forward about 1.5-2 hours later and this infamous event happened: YouTube - ‪Cayuga crash‬‏

Took them a while to clean it up but basically it was now time for drifting, and then the actual time attack. During the drivers meeting for time attack I was actually quite shocked to see that no lap times were taken at all during the day - despite an RFID lap timer being applied to every car that registered in time attack. I questioned how they were planning on staging the heats so that the pace could be maintained. Then my question was answered -- they expected us to form our own groups, based on our own best estimates of how fast we were ... honestly this was a big WTF moment for me

So I went around trying to meet people to make a group of 5. I approached about 4-5 different groups but all of them already had 5 (thanks Kyle for trying to squeeze me in as a 6th haha) or were running WAY faster times than I knew I could handle (low 20's, my best is 28 flat). I bumped into Ana from SGR and she mentioned the Stage Four guys were looking for a 5th. Cool. So I went walking down the pits to find these guys. Figured it'd be cool to run with them since they were also at SRTA. But no luck, I couldn't find them...

By then I was at the end of the pit lane near my car so I decided to get inside and drive back to the start to keep looking for a group. Then one of the marshals approached me and asked if it was my car. "Yeah" I said... and then I was greeted by "Are you a f***ing idiot? What the f*** were you thinking?" proceeded by an entire 5 minute scolding (and about 15 f-bombs) of how I parked my car blocking the staging lane for lappers, how he was gonna kick me out of the park and not let me participate in lapping, etc... Not gonna go too much into the details of it, but apparently he was calling out for me on the PA system as the "Silver STI" to move my car. You can figure out why I never clued in.

Anyway... I was pretty put off by this, and honestly didn't feel like looking for a group for the time attack anymore. I was upset with how the whole event had turned out so I just packed it in and went home. No sense pushing my car to the limit while angry and in a really bad mood (not to mention drained from the heat). Congrats to all the winners and everyone that actually enjoyed it. I for one will not be going to any of the other CSCS events. Also a thank you to StE who took some awesome action shots of my car during the limited time I had on track Sorry no cool track videos this week

Coles Notes:

* No live leaderboard
* Drivers had to organize their own heats
* Got yelled at for parking in the wrong spot
* Apparently my car is a Silver STI
* DNS for the Time Attack
* Brakes still overheating - need ducts badly
* 2nd weekend in a row for a safety incident at TMP



I've been to CSCS once just check things out, but have never participated in their lapping or time attack, so I can't speak from personal experience.

Hey mleblond, what's this history between CSCS and CASC-OR?

Howi
SRTA

[condor888000]

Interesting to get a take from someone who was there, thanks Howi! The facts drivers had to group their own heats is ****ing RETARDED...


Bales are there to stay, you of all people should know this isnt autocross. If you dont take the proper race line you will run off the track, in this case the driver took the apex 4 feet away when in reality this is a second gear turn with the speed 3 as it slows you down right before the straight. only difference is the guy was driving a rhd car and never even thought he would hit when in reality he didn't know his distances. he never slowed down the whole time just tried to power through the turn.

CASC guys remove them at Shannonville for Time Attack and regional racing. Why? Because they know shit like this will happen. Drivers WILL make mistakes, take a bad line and the bales there just make things that much more dangerious. Did the driver **** up? Hell yes. Did the mistake by the organizer of not demanding those bales be moved amplify his error? You bet it.

This wasn't Shannonville but the same still applies.


helmets are not mandatory, track rules. They are Mandatory when it's Time Attack because they know you are pushing the car at that point. If you are alive and have a brain then you would wear your helmet at all times, it isnt against the rules. people running on the track, they are novice drivers and don't have a racing license, would you expect anything else? knowing you need to slow down in the end part of the track, other hot cars would see people are stopped, so it's not like this was in a blind corner over a crest.

Right, they are novices, which makes it more likely they will have target fixation on something and not see the issue. Helmets should be insisted upon by the organizers no matter what the track says, doing otehrwise is just stupid.


risk of the game, honestly this is getting to be bigger than it really is, some one should CGI an explosion at the end and have zombies come out of it.

The incident wasn't large. The problems it raised with the exploding number of tracking groups in Ontario is though.



There,s ambulance on site at the drag strip. They have a mandatory drivers meeting where if you don,t attend, you dont get to lap, and is pretty extensive.

Hum...seems that isn't well enforced.


Remember this is the biggest show with the most stuff going on at once. Casc has nothing on them in terms of attendance.

It's not about numbers, it's about safety. That's the problem with some groups, they view it as more is better. Well no, safer is better, even if you have to reduce the number of people allowed in.


again, one bad apple doesn't mean the whole tree needs to be cut down. I am sure if the driver wasn't as wreck-less it would of never happen. he definitely drove it like he stole it :P

Oh yes the driver ****ed up. But the organizers ****ed up more, and have more chances to **** up at future events. That is the concern here.


I meant organizers as CSCS brings in participants that do not part take in CASC events. but CSCS is well involved in the CASC history. So your attacking the same people you are protecting...or shitting where you eat

If that's the quality of participant you can see, I'm happy they're not at any event I'd run.

[RacerJason]

mleblond = Wrong.

There are so many things wrong in that video it leaves me speechless.

[BMWWW]

My first outing at Shannonville as a spectator this year was with a very percuiliar group. I won't mention names, but HOLY EFFIN SHIT was it ever terrifying.

Maybe I'm spoiled as I come from the autox crowd, where in general, the crowd is older, more mature, and not driving cars that are WAY out of our league.

In any case:
- no drivers meeting
- drivers not knowing anything about the flags and their interpretation
- way too many cars, no groups, passing everywhere at Shanni's Pro-layout.

My first ride-along (I ask a lot) was with two experienced friends (of course, I didn't know that), and the two were following within an arm's length at times. To say the least, my ass was puckered for the first half of the session. I finally relaxed after realizing the two were very comfortable with each other.

But in any case, BLEH BLEH BLEH to the whole event. I saw NOVICE drivers out on some serious cars, with full-on Continental Trans-Am slicks. :bang:bang

And when a "rouge-con-de-def " car went off BIG at turn one, it took FOREVER to get the hot-track to be declared safe. I watched the entire thing happen from atop the pit-straight flag stand: red flags ignored, black flags ignored, I watched some dumb****enass drive an additional 2 laps before hitting the pits. (Seriously, he passed the crash site twice!!).

I know it's a shitty economy, people are looking for the cheapest places to get track time (which is a good thing), but I just wish there was a driver's meeting. We do it at autox's every time, and its something that should really be mandatory. I wouldn't mind doing it (drivers meeting), but I'm never in town nor do I have the resources to go all the time--someone that frequents these events really needs to nut-up and run the show, properly. Otherwise, newcomers will be scared shitless, and poorly run events will continue to be run; which, in my opinion, is 100% unacceptable.

/rant


In any case, all new comers to 'racing' should start off with an autox. There simply are no reasons not to. Cheapest form of racing, and perhaps one of the most consistently well-run events. All the local Ontario groups (HADA, SPDA, TLMC, WOSC, PITL) are all incredibly organized, officiated, and an absolute perfect way to be intro'd into sanctioned racing. Let newcomers get a taste of how an event SHOULD be run, so that they refuse to accept anything less than 'safe'. And in due time, those who are poorly run will just stop. (Drivers' meetings take all of 10 minutes!! No excuses in my mind).

[BMWWW]

PS: Helmets should be mandatory. If us poor-mofo's in autox can afford one, you rich mofo's that big-track should too.

Snell 2010's can be found under $100 all day state-side.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Maybe I'm spoiled as I come from the autox crowd, where in general, the crowd is older, more mature, and not driving cars that are WAY out of our league.

In any case, all new comers to 'racing' should start off with an autox. There simply are no reasons not to. Cheapest form of racing, and perhaps one of the most consistently well-run events. All the local Ontario groups (HADA, SPDA, TLMC, WOSC, PITL) are all incredibly organized, officiated, and an absolute perfect way to be intro'd into sanctioned racing. Let newcomers get a taste of how an event SHOULD be run, so that they refuse to accept anything less than 'safe'. And in due time, those who are poorly run will just stop. (Drivers' meetings take all of 10 minutes!! No excuses in my mind).

i'm going to guess that the organizers of the event you went to starts with a K and ends in Playground?

If so, you picked the wrong group to go with...there are other track events that are way more organized, attract a more well-behaved crowd, and have a mandatory driver's meeting or else you don't go on the track.

For those that don't want to Auto-x there are:

ILR track school and lapping days at Mosport DDT (www.carcontrolschool.com) - for those that want to lap with ILR, taking the track school is a pre-req. ILR is also offering a special rate for TM3 members...check out the Sponsor section of TM3

Sigma Time Attack (www.sigmatimeattack.com) - started off small but have built a good reputation for running a good event...the last 2 events have sold out. The cap is 45 entrants and 15 cars on the track at a time. If you pre-register, it is one of the cheapest events at Mosport DDT.

SoloSprint, now Ontario Time Attack (www.casc.on.ca) also offers well organized events at the various tracks in southern ontario.

Newcomers should start off with a school of some sort (Car Control, Track School) before going to either auto-x or lapping days....otherwise they'll just be building upon bad habits.

[condor888000]

BMWWW, I honestly think that you SHOULD say which group. It's through reviews like yours that we can learn which private groups to trust and which to run from.

Havign said that, I'm betting it was KPG too.

[Kiyomi]

know your cars limits b4 entering the track is my 2 cents. anyone wanna join me tracking for cayuga third round next month???

[BMWWW]

BMWWW, I honestly think that you SHOULD say which group. It's through reviews like yours that we can learn which private groups to trust and which to run from.

Havign said that, I'm betting it was KPG too.

Not necessary. If people actually go to an autox or a BMW-run lapping day, the difference will be night and day.
One is like an F1 pitstop, the other is like me changing tires in my garage.

And Kiyomi, when tracking, it's never enough to know where your own limit is when there's 20-30+ other cars around you. YOU can be the wise old tortoise, but it usually takes 2 to tango, and it's the actions of the OTHER guy that you should be worried about.

With a bad group, there can be your fast street car, with REALLY fast guys, on r-comps/slicks, then throw in a few fast cars with terrible drivers, and then throw in a few bone stock slow street cars--all while there are no pre-determined passing zones/point-by's. Fuuuuuuuu_k me--the closing rates were stupidly quick in a few of my ride-alongs.

[Kiyomi]

Not necessary. If people actually go to an autox or a BMW-run lapping day, the difference will be night and day.
One is like an F1 pitstop, the other is like me changing tires in my garage.

And Kiyomi, when tracking, it's never enough to know where your own limit is when there's 20-30+ other cars around you. YOU can be the wise old tortoise, but it usually takes 2 to tango, and it's the actions of the OTHER guy that you should be worried about.

With a bad group, there can be your fast street car, with REALLY fast guys, on r-comps/slicks, then throw in a few fast cars with terrible drivers, and then throw in a few bone stock slow street cars--all while there are no pre-determined passing zones/point-by's. Fuuuuuuuu_k me--the closing rates were stupidly quick in a few of my ride-alongs.

lol i agree with all that u said too. getting passed by r35's and gt3s was insane lolz. they gonna need stricter rules on certain track days.

[sol_searchin]

tracks in ontario are turning out to be a joke, to many cars on at a time and 99% of the time no one respects the rules. I don't want to get started on different class cars on a track at the same time.

[taz4432]

tracks in ontario are turning out to be a joke, to many cars on at a time and 99% of the time no one respects the rules. I don't want to get started on different class cars on a track at the same time.

This happens with any/all groups at any track.

What some groups will do is have 3 groups (20 mins per group per hour) that are based on driver skill/ability. Within each group you could have huge differences in vehicles such as a 911T with a Mazda 3 (as often happens to me). Sure they'll pass me - I expect them to - but as an experienced driver I am prepared for and aware of it.

If groupings are to be done it makes more sense to do it by skill level than car because I've gone faster in my 3 than beginners in $100k+ sports cars and alternatively, been passed by experts in $5k tubbed shells on wheels.

Furthermore, even if they don't do groupings, groups like Sigma Racing Time Attack (SRTA) run extremely safe and organized events where you'll have all different classes of cars and levels of drivers on the track at the same time.

If you're not happy with the way things are, then find a group that works for you or pony up and rent the track for yourself/some buddies who feel the same way you do.

[Kiyomi]

This happens with any/all groups at any track.

What some groups will do is have 3 groups (20 mins per group per hour) that are based on driver skill/ability. Within each group you could have huge differences in vehicles such as a 911T with a Mazda 3 (as often happens to me). Sure they'll pass me - I expect them to - but as an experienced driver I am prepared for and aware of it.

If groupings are to be done it makes more sense to do it by skill level than car because I've gone faster in my 3 than beginners in $100k+ sports cars and alternatively, been passed by experts in $5k tubbed shells on wheels.

Furthermore, even if they don't do groupings, groups like Sigma Racing Time Attack (SRTA) run extremely safe and organized events where you'll have all different classes of cars and levels of drivers on the track at the same time.

If you're not happy with the way things are, then find a group that works for you or pony up and rent the track for yourself/some buddies who feel the same way you do.

+1

[SKYMP3]

Togue event was safe, helmet is required and they divide car by class, so you don't see a GT-R and a Corolla to run on the same track.

C7 was a bit mess up, no helmet required unless covertible and you see all type of cars running with you. I had no driver meeting neither....follow the group to get there, arrive a bit late and missed the whole thing and no body cares.....you just go straight to the track.

[thanu31]

I was with togue on saturday, and they dont require a helmet unless you have a convertible too. And they did not divide cars by class

[SKYMP3]

I was with togue on saturday, and they dont require a helmet unless you have a convertible too. And they did not divide cars by class

At Cayuga probably?
Mosport DDT required when I went last summer.

[shu5892001]

DDT they divide cars up by driver level and you don't need a helmet unless you are in a convertible