Iceman_F1's Tuning/Logs

[Iceman_F1]

Alright, disclaimer first.

I've never done logging before. I've never done tuning before. New to this whole thing so these logs could be wrong but they are what I got for now.

Tried doing the calibrate MAF logs but I think I did it wrong and I was confused so these are just 4th gear pulls. Both only go to ~5680 or so RPM because I ran out of space/time to do more :bang

Not sure what else needs to be done from here but it's a start I guess.

[Fobio]

Alright, disclaimer first.

I've never done logging before. I've never done tuning before. New to this whole thing so these logs could be wrong but they are what I got for now.

Tried doing the calibrate MAF logs but I think I did it wrong and I was confused so these are just 4th gear pulls. Both only go to ~5680 or so RPM because I ran out of space/time to do more :bang

Not sure what else needs to be done from here but it's a start I guess.

that's one first step...but why did you delete your sig?...lol...

1. use standard units, so that you boost shows in PSI.

2. something happened around 3900rpm and you pulled timing and got KR.I don't exactly know how to read your AFR in Lambda, but it's safe to say prolly went lean.

3. keep it up and the guys will help you diagnose further.

4. be safe.

[Iceman_F1]

that's one first step...but why did you delete your sig?...lol...

1. use standard units, so that you boost shows in PSI.

2. something happened around 3900rpm and you pulled timing and got KR.I don't exactly know how to read your AFR in Lambda, but it's safe to say prolly went lean.

3. keep it up and the guys will help you diagnose further.

4. be safe.

Guess I'll have to do a couple more runs to get other data, but yeah. Not sure why the 2nd run had that much KR but the 1st run didn't. Might have time this weekend to do a couple runs depending on the timing I get on the highway.

You mean deleted the sig I quoted of yours? Iuno, wanted to change it up a bit :chuckle

[loki]

I assume you have to connect the AP to your comp to get the data.

will it work with a mac?

[Iceman_F1]

I assume you have to connect the AP to your comp to get the data.

will it work with a mac?

It should as someone at the Dyno day had a Mac...and this is the site you go to to get the software (AP Manager grabs the logs) http://www.cobbtuning.com/info/?id=3059

Not sure about the ATR software to edit MAPs.

[loki]

ok thanks

[MajesticBlueNTO]

at first i was like "11480 DI Fuel Pressure?! is that the Alpha firmware?!" (ask me how i know) but then i saw it was kPa

1 lambda = 14.7 AFR

like fobio said, switch to Standard Units, it's easier to quickly analyze rather than doing the conversion in another cell :P

[fywdyl]

AP Manager works for MAC, but ATR doesn't.

As for the MAF calibration logs, you have to go SLOW on the throttle. It should be done over like 15-20 seconds... takes practice cuz near the top end you'll run out of rpm before you reach your 100+ g/s.

[Iceman_F1]

Alright, a couple dumps with another disclaimer. 4th gear pull was done on the Dyno day and done with v108 OTS Stage 1+ OTS map. Maf calibration (if I did them right) are done on the v200 Stage 1+ OTS map.

For the maf calibration, if I'm reading it right, it's the following calculations? Or are these numbers really weird looking and I did something wrong? I haven't changed the tables yet as I want to make sure I did things right.

0-5.7 = (100 - 0.0016) / 100 = 0.999984
5.7-18 = (100 - 0.0016) / 100 = 0.999984
18-30 = (100 + 0.0374) / 100 = 1.000374
30-77 = (100 + 0.0374) / 100 = 1.000374
77-Max = (100 + 0.0374) / 100 = 1.000374

In regards to the pulls, not sure what's wrong but getting quite a bit of knock consistently from ~3000 RPM which has me a bit concerned.

Will upload dyno sheets as soon as I can get my scanner working.

6026
6023
6025
6024

[loki]

you've done that MAF calibration wrong.

you divided the LTFT percentage by 100 before adding/subtracting from 100 and then you divided by 100 again.

[loki]

Here.

0-5.7 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.9984
5.7-18 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.9984
18-30 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
30-77 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
77-Max = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374

Edit:

Just looking at the first log (haven't looked at the others yet) this is what I've noticed:

1. Your BAT's are through the roof. I saw up to 200 degrees F.
2. your LTFT's were showing 4 something the whole time. It should read as -0.16 to show the car is in open loop.
3. you've got KR in the upper RPM.

[Iceman_F1]

Hmmm...so I was already taking the actual % value...so it's just the inside bracket part I need then? Which would make it:

0-5.7 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.984
5.7-18 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.984
18-30 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
30-77 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
77-Max = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374

I was reading the Abilors tuning guide PDF...and in my mind, when I saw he already converted the % value, I did the same...though re-reading it, it wouldn't add up...

[loki]

Hmmm...so I was already taking the actual % value...so it's just the inside bracket part I need then? Which would make it:

0-5.7 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.984
5.7-18 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.984
18-30 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
30-77 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
77-Max = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374

I was reading the Abilors tuning guide PDF...and in my mind, when I saw he already converted the % value, I did the same...though re-reading it, it wouldn't add up...

No. you're now subtracting 1.6%. Use my numbers. they are correct.

[Iceman_F1]

Here.

0-5.7 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.9984
5.7-18 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.9984
18-30 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
30-77 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
77-Max = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374

Edit:

Just looking at the first log (haven't looked at the others yet) this is what I've noticed:

1. Your BAT's are through the roof. I saw up to 200 degrees F.
2. your LTFT's were showing 4 something the whole time. It should read as -0.16 to show the car is in open loop.
3. you've got KR in the upper RPM.

Yeah, I saw and noted that there was Knock...which I'm worried about. Looking at the full log of the 1st run, there was a brief bit of -0.16 just before the full throttle of the actual pull. For the BAT, not sure why they are so high but what should they be for a pull on a day like that? While it wasn't the warmest day, it wasn't that cold either...for my maf calibration, BAT was anywhere between 66 and 79 on run 1 to as high as 99 on run 3. So would it not make sense after driving ~1 hour to the dyno meet and my car only sitting for ~20-30 min before going on the dyno mean the temps are up there?

Also yes, I did the decimal wrong but at least I had the calculation right the 2nd time -_-;

Will be interesting to see how the logs look after maf calibration and v200 map. Since I've done the logging, I've had that knock but I don't know enough right now to tell why and how to fix it...

[loki]

ok just to clarify. there are the MAF cal numbers

0-5.7 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.9984
5.7-18 = (100 - 0.16) / 100 = 0.9984
18-30 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
30-77 = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374
77-Max = (100 + 3.74) / 100 = 1.0374

couldn't tell if you were making a joke about doing it right the second time, or you were being serious. So I posted again just in case. :P

Those BATS are still extremely high. The car sitting wouldn't help, but still. wow. not sure at what temperature the car goes into limp mode, some of the other guys will have to chime in.

EDIT: ok the BATs are high, but I've had some pretty high bats before, on a colder night with a cp-e TMIC because car sat for a bit before doing one of the logs. So I guess it's not so bad since a dyno run isn't usual conditions. EDIT

Car still should be at -0.16 LTFT for the entire WOT run.

You'll also have to cross reference the commanded AFR with the Actual AFR from the log to make sure the MAF is calibrated for WOT. It's easier when you're commanding a constant number as opposed to the OTS maps which have a varying AFR, but it's still do-able just more of a pain.

post up logs from other than the dyno then, so we can have a look. Preferably one with much lower BATs

[Iceman_F1]

I meant I wrote the (100 - 0.16) /100 right the 2nd time...just when actually doing it on the calculator, I put the decimal wrong and did 1.6 instead of .16.

As for another log, this is the only other log I have with standard units. LTFT show -0.16 and the BAT are lower but it was so long ago I don't remember when I did the run and what the map was (though I think it was Stage 1 no intake).

[loki]

If you're running an OTS map, I'm gonna say your car is running quite lean, and you're going to need to calibrate your MAF for WOT.

[Fack_Dude]

Yeah dude, you better start fixing some issues before the bad weather rolls in for the winter.

[Iceman_F1]

If you're running an OTS map, I'm gonna say your car is running quite lean, and you're going to need to calibrate your MAF for WOT.

So do a few 4th gear logs the same way I did the original calibration? I've been pretty happy with the v108 map until I saw the KR from the dyno run. Trying out the v200 map so after a day or two to get it settled in, I'll try a couple logs of that.

[loki]

So do a few 4th gear logs the same way I did the original calibration? I've been pretty happy with the v108 map until I saw the KR from the dyno run. Trying out the v200 map so after a day or two to get it settled in, I'll try a couple logs of that.

If you haven't done any changes to the V108 map, i.e had a professional tune done, then there's no point not changing to the V200 boost tuned maps.

Apply the same MAF cal. to the V200 map and go from there. But you're going to have to calibrate your WOT AFRs. So yeh, do some 4th gear logs, and compare commanded to actual AFR and adjust accordingly.

[Iceman_F1]

If you haven't done any changes to the V108 map, i.e had a professional tune done, then there's no point not changing to the V200 boost tuned maps.

Apply the same MAF cal. to the V200 map and go from there. But you're going to have to calibrate your WOT AFRs. So yeh, do some 4th gear logs, and compare commanded to actual AFR and adjust accordingly.

Only change I had done to the v108 was to up the idle revs to compensate for the RMM. That's why I had no issues jumping to the v200. I'm plenty happy for the most part not really changing the OTS map other than to fix minor issues. At least for now. So last night I already did the maf calibration to the v200 map and did some driving today. I'd hope after work tomorrow it should be settled down and can do some pulls then.

[loki]

it's a good idea to change your knock sensor limiter from 5700rpm to the 6700 rpm, so you can see what the car is doing up in the top end. Especially since you're getting quite a bit of knock in the lower rpm.

you can do this by adjusting the Knock Retard Active - RPM (Max) in the knock tables.

[Iceman_F1]

Alright, I didn't change the knock sensor limiter yet but I decided to do a couple runs tonight. On the 1st, I got a bit nervous on the on-ramp so there's a slight lift of the pedal but KR is a LOT less than the dyno run and the LTFT are all in -0.16. Also BAT are lower but that's not saying much as the air temp outside is pretty cool. Also boost is a lot less but that doesn't really bother me that much.

Taking me a bit getting used to all this. Just trying to get a safe tune for the parts I have as I doubt I'd be adding anything major any time soon.

[loki]

there's some knock in the 1st log. Really not sure why.

The second log was pretty clean with respect to KR, so I'll comment on that one.

1. AFR's look rich, which is what they should be with the OTS tune. So the MAF cal. did work for the most part, however you should still cross reference with the AFRs in the fuel tables to see how commanded compares to actual. (man I sound like a broken record. haha)

2. BATs are nice and low but hey it's friggin cold outside.

3. from about 3100rpm to about 5000rpm your fuel pressure takes a huge nose dive, going down into the 1200 range. This occured in both your logs. This isn't good. you want that fuel pressure well above 1600 rpm for the entire WOT run. Possibly a sign that your fuel pump is a magazine choice away from taking a huge shit. But others can chime in on that.

4. it hit the boost targets pretty well. I assume its the V200 map? which targets 16 psi across the rpm range correct?

5. judging from the time it took to get through the log, it was 4th gear correct? I'd say for quick reference when looking back in your logs, put the gear you were in, and the date of the log, as well as the map in the log title. It's long, but it'll really help.

[Iceman_F1]

there's some knock in the 1st log. Really not sure why.

The second log was pretty clean with respect to KR, so I'll comment on that one.

1. AFR's look rich, which is what they should be with the OTS tune. So the MAF cal. did work for the most part, however you should still cross reference with the AFRs in the fuel tables to see how commanded compares to actual. (man I sound like a broken record. haha)

2. BATs are nice and low but hey it's friggin cold outside.

3. from about 3100rpm to about 5000rpm your fuel pressure takes a huge nose dive, going down into the 1200 range. This occured in both your logs. This isn't good. you want that fuel pressure well above 1600 rpm for the entire WOT run. Possibly a sign that your fuel pump is a magazine choice away from taking a huge shit. But others can chime in on that.

4. it hit the boost targets pretty well. I assume its the V200 map? which targets 16 psi across the rpm range correct?

5. judging from the time it took to get through the log, it was 4th gear correct? I'd say for quick reference when looking back in your logs, put the gear you were in, and the date of the log, as well as the map in the log title. It's long, but it'll really help.

1. Do you mean the Fuel OL/WOT Commanded EQ (No Knock)? Cause if so, I already looked at that and they are pretty close. Map shows the following on that table:

2500 = 11.564
3000 to 5000 = 11.066
5500 = 10.981
6000 = 10.896
6500 to 7000 = 10.823

2. I wouldn't say friggin cold but it's not warm lol. I think the car showed ~8 ambient temp outside.

3. Not sure what to say on this...maybe should save up for this one...was trying to avoid it if I could get away with it but if this looks bad, might need to do it sooner rather than later...

4. Yup, it's the v200 map. According to the Cobb PDF on the map, it says "Stage1+”Intake” 91 v200 - Intended for otherwise stock MAZDASPEED3 vehicle with a stock or cat-back
exhaust, a supported "Intake", and a stock CDFP only. 91 or 92 octane fuel. Boost Targets:~16psi peak boost
pressure tapering down to ~16psi by the 6700 RPM redline, +/- 1.5psi."

5. Good advice. I'll try to remember that one next time I upload. Yes, it was a 4th gear pull.

[loki]

1. Do you mean the Fuel OL/WOT Commanded EQ (No Knock)? Cause if so, I already looked at that and they are pretty close. Map shows the following on that table:

2500 = 11.564
3000 to 5000 = 11.066
5500 = 10.981
6000 = 10.896
6500 to 7000 = 10.823

cool

2. I wouldn't say friggin cold but it's not warm lol. I think the car showed ~8 ambient temp outside. I'm from Barbados. It's cold. haha

3. Not sure what to say on this...maybe should save up for this one...was trying to avoid it if I could get away with it but if this looks bad, might need to do it sooner rather than later... The fuel pressure shouldn't dip like that. Especially in that rpm range where the car is making the most power. You'll need to look into that for sure, sooner than later.

4. Yup, it's the v200 map. According to the Cobb PDF on the map, it says "Stage1+”Intake” 91 v200 - Intended for otherwise stock MAZDASPEED3 vehicle with a stock or cat-back
exhaust, a supported "Intake", and a stock CDFP only. 91 or 92 octane fuel. Boost Targets:~16psi peak boost
pressure tapering down to ~16psi by the 6700 RPM redline, +/- 1.5psi."

5. Good advice. I'll try to remember that one next time I upload. Yes, it was a 4th gear pull.

time to go fuel pump/internals shopping.

[horto]

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/f1_difuelpsi.png


time to go fuel pump/internals shopping.

+1

quick, add it to the cp-e group buy

[loki]

yeh, seriously, you should consider getting in on that group buy and pick up a fuel pump.

Although I'n not sure if these are even in stock due to high demand....but it's worth asking the question.

send MPS a message if you're interested.

[Fobio]

Derek...looking at the latest log you posted, the only thing of concern is your fuel pressure. You're not at the ragged edge of say 600 - 700 psi, but @ 1300psi, it's about 300 psi below what would be considered appropriate fuel pressures. As it stands, it's imperative that you ensure you have proper fuel pressure @ 1600+psi beforewe proceed with tuning.

[Iceman_F1]

Hmmm. Good to know. Sadly, no where near enough funds right now for a fuel pump. Am I right to assume there shouldn't be many issues as long as I don't go WOT? Which I never really do anyways...

Either way, will take me a couple months to save the money/clear my credit card for that.

Edit: Unless I sell my D60 which I rarely use anymore...but even then, would be awhile.

[loki]

Hmmm. Good to know. Sadly, no where near enough funds right now for a fuel pump. Am I right to assume there shouldn't be many issues as long as I don't go WOT? Which I never really do anyways...

Either way, will take me a couple months to save the money/clear my credit card for that.

Edit: Unless I sell my D60 which I rarely use anymore...but even then, would be awhile.

Sell D60, buy fuel pump.

Going WOT is good for the car, you should do it regularly. And that's the whole point of owning a speed3 as well right?

[breakfasteatre]

my fuel pressure dipped to 60 before i got my pump. That was scary. HPFP crapping out all together

[Iceman_F1]

Sell D60, buy fuel pump.

Going WOT is good for the car, you should do it regularly. And that's the whole point of owning a speed3 as well right?

True...however most of my driving is 6am to work and 3:40 home from work...not a lot of chances to do WOT. I push it when I can but there's a lot of limits on when I can. Was thinking of selling the D60 anyways...sad that it's forced cause of this issue.

[loki]

True...however most of my driving is 6am to work and 3:40 home from work...not a lot of chances to do WOT. I push it when I can but there's a lot of limits on when I can. Was thinking of selling the D60 anyways...sad that it's forced cause of this issue.

yeh it sucks when you have to fork out a huge chunk of cash for something you weren't planning on buying, especially a fuel pump.

If you're not planning on doing any crazy mods anytime soon, maybe look around for a used stock pump?

Edit: or look into getting internals

[horto]

i look at fuel pump as an insurance upgrade - way cheaper to buy a pump than a new engine

it is not cheap, and i feel for ya... especially with the core charge out of pocket expense

perhaps consider doing internals (ptp?) as a cheaper route
or sell that D60

[Iceman_F1]

yeh it sucks when you have to fork out a huge chunk of cash for something you weren't planning on buying, especially a fuel pump.

If you're not planning on doing any crazy mods anytime soon, maybe look around for a used stock pump?

Edit: or look into getting internals

Yeah...specially when I dumped $400 in the summer to fix an issue with the pivot part that the shifter cables connect to...

[BlueStreak]

If you go with internals, go with Autotech (I run this unit. Works great) or KMD. Recently, alot of people have been favouring Autotech over KMD.

PTP has a bad rep on a lot of forums. It'll be hit or miss with his units.

[Iceman_F1]

If you go with internals, go with Autotech (I run this unit. Works great) or KMD. Recently, alot of people have been favouring Autotech over KMD.

PTP has a bad rep on a lot of forums. It'll be hit or miss with his units.

So far leaning towards internals for price but no way could I do the install myself...so not sure who to trust for an install of internals. Doing some research currently...KMD seems good but will research autotech as well.

[Fobio]

So far leaning towards internals for price but no way could I do the install myself...so not sure who to trust for an install of internals. Doing some research currently...KMD seems good but will research autotech as well.

Dave installed his himself, and I'm sure it can be a service he offers under MSpeed.

[loki]

Dave installed his himself, and I'm sure it can be a service he offers under MSpeed.

+1

[Iceman_F1]

Dave installed his himself, and I'm sure it can be a service he offers under MSpeed.

Good to know. Didn't want to assume he did it himself and bother him about that but will PM him.