Cool or not cool? Eletrical wiring in metal box in cupboards?

[ds2chan]

So, I have a light above my kitchen sink and attached to the underside of the cupboards. There is a wire coming out from behind the backsplash and it's wired up to the light. BUT, the wires are just hanging there in the open. This is completely unsafe. So, does anybody know if I can drill a hole going up to the cupboards, install a metal electrical box, and just run the wires in there?? I'm wondering if this is safe or not. I know there are a couple of electricians here so I'm hoping somebody would know the answer to this.

I tried googling the answer but I can't seem to find an answer. Thanks guys!!

[PR3Y11]

if you're just worried about the wire along the backsplash, the easiest way is to just put a cover over it and caulk it in. i can't really picture what it looks like and not entirely sure what your goal is but i hope this helps....?

[ds2chan]

I was hoping it was clear but the reason I need to do this is because the wires coming out from behind the backsplash is connected to the lights right in the open. They are just connected to each other using marrettes (those wire connectors) right there in front of me. To do it right they should be in a junction box. So, I was thinking to run the wires into the cupboards above the sink and run them into a junction box there but I'm not sure if that is up to code or not. Or if there is a better/safer way to do this.

I hope that makes more sense.

[PR3Y11]

i don't see any issues with running it into a box in your cupboard but i can ask my uncle later this week to make sure if you need word from an electrician :P

[breakfasteatre]

No problem having the junction box in the cupboard. The problem lies if you have recepticals in cupboards. If there is vertical trim on the front face of the bottom of the cabinet hiding the light, you could even just install a shallow handy box there with a blank cover right on the underside of the cupboard

[ds2chan]

Thanks for the responses!!

yeah, I figured it would be OK but I just wanted to see if anybody sees any issues with doing this.

also, I checked the height of the piece of wood hiding the light already and it isn't that tall so it won't hide the junction box. This is why I was thinking to just install it inside the cupboard.

[breakfasteatre]

You need enough wire to go into the cabinet so that the outer jacket (the white sheath that surroundes the white, black and bare conductors) can protect the conductors in the wire clamp connected to the junction box.

can you provide a photo? Where are you located? I could even come by if you are relatively close

[Noisy Crow]

Also, the junction box needs to be accessible. Maybe a surface mount box inside the cupboard, or maybe an in-wall (or in-cupboard-ceiling) would work. As a couple of people have said, pictures would help a lot.

[JonsMazda]

Ok so since we are on topic, question for ya'll.
Trying to hook up a Living room light, now on the ceiling there is RED BLACK AND WHITE, on the lights itself, only BLACK AND WHITE. When I hook up BLACK / BLACK and WHITE / WHITE, turn on the main power fuse, the light comes on, but when I tried the light switch, it wouldn't turn off. I tried googling, and people are saying to connect RED AND BLACK TOGETHER. Any ideas?

[breakfasteatre]

turn power off, open up switch, tell us how the wires are connected in the box

[Noisy Crow]

Usually when you see three wires (at least in household wiring) you are dealing with with a "three way" switch... which means you have two light switches than work the same fixture. Three wires are used when there is separate control at the light switch for the fan and the light in a ceiling fan.

White is ALWAYS neutral. So connect white to white. Black or red will be hot. Or both will be. Cap and tape the wire you don't use. But I'd pull the cover of the light switch off and see what is in there too, just to be sure.

[ds2chan]

You need enough wire to go into the cabinet so that the outer jacket (the white sheath that surroundes the white, black and bare conductors) can protect the conductors in the wire clamp connected to the junction box.

can you provide a photo? Where are you located? I could even come by if you are relatively close

You know what?? there actually is enough trim to cover a surface mount box so I could just mount the box under the cupboard. I just need some 1/2" wood screws first. I didn't think there was enough but I did a measurement last night to verify.

Thanks for the offer but I'm OK doing it myself. I've done this before. I just wasn't sure if it was OK or not. but I'll take a picture and post it up tonight so you guys can see for yourself.



No problem having the junction box in the cupboard. The problem lies if you have recepticals in cupboards. If there is vertical trim on the front face of the bottom of the cabinet hiding the light, you could even just install a shallow handy box there with a blank cover right on the underside of the cupboard

I just realized that you said shallow. Are there smaller junction boxes out there?? That is, smaller than the "normal" ones?



Ok so since we are on topic, question for ya'll.
Trying to hook up a Living room light, now on the ceiling there is RED BLACK AND WHITE, on the lights itself, only BLACK AND WHITE. When I hook up BLACK / BLACK and WHITE / WHITE, turn on the main power fuse, the light comes on, but when I tried the light switch, it wouldn't turn off. I tried googling, and people are saying to connect RED AND BLACK TOGETHER. Any ideas?

That does sound odd. As others said the light is probably wired to be a 3-way. Was there a light there before?? If yes, was it controlled by more than 1 light switch??

Also, if the red wire is coming from another input/source then there should be another white (neutral) wire as well. This would mean that the power source is being extended to another outlet or switch. I've seen a few in my house when I was replacing all the light switches.

[Noisy Crow]

I just realized that you said shallow. Are there smaller junction boxes out there?? That is, smaller than the "normal" ones?
Pancake box. Usually used for surface mounting lights, so they are a really thin octogon box. Don't put too many wires in there though. Probably only one pair (one in and one out) is the most that is allowed.

[breakfasteatre]

This is what i was thinking:

http://s7.cdn.hardwareandtools.net/is/image/HardwareandTools/050169006504?wid=200&hei=200

its an 1110, or handybox

even if its the same depth as the trim on the bottom of the cupboard, if you have it mounted near the back, you wont see it unless you actually put your head underneath to look.


The thing with threeways is that you cant really determine whats happening until you actually look at the wiring. There are like 6 or so accepted ways to wire 3 ways and even more unusual ways to do it

[ds2chan]

I bought one of those "handybox" and plan to install it under the cupboards. I didn't think the trim would cover it but it actually does.

Below is a picture of the light. So, as Breakfasteatre suggested, I'm planning on installing the box to at the back (closer to the backsplash). But, do you guys know where I could get some of those wire clips with the screws used in the picture?? I looked at Home Depot, Rona, and Canadian Tire and can only find the ones that use nails. I have no clue where to get them. Thanks.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ds2chan/IMG_2989.jpg

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ds2chan/IMG_2990.jpg

[Noisy Crow]

You can get the wire clips at at any decent home centre. Even Canadian tire. May not be in the electrical section though.

As for your wires: Looking at it, if it were my kitchen I would either yank the lamp and install one with a proper knock-out and run the wire run into it, or I would enlarge the hole on the end of the existing on and install a wire clamp, and again run the wire into the fixture.

There are also some very small junction boxes used for surface conduit... one of those might work. Whatever you end up using make sure you use a proper wire clamp so secure the wire.

[breakfasteatre]

just get a 30-30, its a grey plastic connector, rated for clamping up to 2 wires.

looks like this:

http://img04.static-nextag.com/image/Allied-Innovations-Romex-Connector/0/000/007/851/331/785133176.jpg

had to have been a homeowner who made those connections, the tape is funny

[ds2chan]

Thanks for the explanations and suggestions guys. All done.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b342/ds2chan/IMG_3099.jpg

[breakfasteatre]

Coulda saved a 30/30 and had both wires come out of the same hole :)

great job though!