Job Question.

[Riftler]

Hey Guys,

I got a random question for you guys related to my job. (knowledge in law might help?)

So basically i work for a life insurance company, i got hired back in may last year as a "New Business Administrator" aka "data entry" position. I did really good, impressed all the managers and got promoted unofficially earlier this year to "Commission Administrator" and "Billing Specialist" (i pay ppl and ask ppl to pay us).

Now when i say unofficial, i mean no official email saying i was promoted, no paper work. I was just told to stop my old work and start helping this person and do these stuff instead.

The problem kicks in now, i receive an email from our VP saying that only selected people have to go do a insurance course and its MANDATORY. This course is taken on your own time which i do not intend to take, i learned that i hate insurance anyways. My VP is a micro-manager and called me out in a company meeting saying i am the only one who did not sign up to get the course materials.

I am a bit worried and curious, if the company is allowed to dismiss me for not taking this course saying i did not meet the job requirements EVEN though i was never told or given anything to notify me the requirements. For all i know, they can tell me i need to do 100 more courses and its needed or w.e BS they can think of.

So does anyone know if their allowed?

Thanks
Riftler

[mzkaye729]

Hey Riftler.

The only thing that worries me is they might consider it as "insubordination" if you don't do it.

You know how our managers are so strict on their rules. We barely have room to breathe.

Good luck with LOMA if you do take it. I'm supposed to be on Chapter 12. I'm only on Chapter 6. That shit is so boring.

[m_bisson]

they can't fire you :)
You can refuse promotions too.

[Riftler]

Hey Riftler.

The only thing that worries me is they might consider it as "insubordination" if you don't do it.

You know how our managers are so strict on their rules. We barely have room to breathe.

Good luck with LOMA if you do take it. I'm supposed to be on Chapter 12. I'm only on Chapter 6. That shit is so boring.

Thanks MzKaye, but remember LOMA shouldnt be mandatory. It was sent only to a few ppl, it doesnt make sense. Its like favoritism or something...idk im just pissed about it.

[Unoriginalusername]

Rather than worrying about doing the bare minimum and complaining why not try to do more than whats expected of you in the new role as well? It sounds more like your role was changed than you were promoted; if you were promoted you'd likely have an HR job grade level change which would impact your pay/benefits etc. You work at an insurance company, it shouldn't matter if you think the course is boring or not that is where you work and the training is related to your line of work so grow a pair and do the training IMO :chuckle

Personally I would level with your manager and say you were not sure if you were officially promoted or not and wasn't sure if the e-mail applied to you. Own up to its your fault for not being proactive and asking sooner, but apparently he/she feels that you should have participated and ask for their help in making that happen. Also ask them to clarify how you should respond to opportunities like this in the future (get them to confirm your role/description etc.)

[mzkaye729]

Thanks MzKaye, but remember LOMA shouldnt be mandatory. It was sent only to a few ppl, it doesnt make sense. Its like favoritism or something...idk im just pissed about it.

Is it worth the trouble to go through our VP on this though ? Not saying it cant be done as I've called her out before on some other job-related issue. You know how she is...

BTW, I got the same email earlier this year but from the Ops Manager, not the VP. If it is a chance to get better, why not ? But it was never disclosed to me as being "Mandatory" though I was told other opportunities (not just within the company) will open up for me career-wise if I have that designation (which is fine with me)... now if only it wasn't so damn boring...

[Kinn]

Here's the thing...unless you have a collective agreement in place (i.e. are unionized) they can fire you for whatever they want. Really – ANYTHING - from your hair cut to ethnicity and sexual orientation or because your boss just doesn't like you.

See, it's up to you, once you're fired, to do something about it. Contact the Human Rights tribunal or other applicable organisation and retain a lawyer....Of course, all of this takes time and is on your dime. And unless it's a blatant Human rights violation chances are all you'll "win" is the lost wages between when you were fired and when you got a new job (I did mention that this can take a long time...and you're not going to be jobless the whole time I'll bet, or how could you cover the lawyer you'll need? - bit of a catch 22 isn't it?).

Larger companies maintain policies regarding this and stick to them for a number of reasons including costs management and Public Relations. The reality is; a company can terminate an employee without cause, at any time, for ANY reason. The obligation is then on that individual to create a case and file wrongful dismissal claim. This can take a lot of money and time…and at the end of the day they might just pay out…you'll never get that job back.

While a lot of people are bashing Unions right now (and I'm not always a fan of them myself) they do a good job of protecting their people from this kind of thing. Yes, they protect them too much at times but that's another issue.

The best advice comes from Unoriginalusername. Use this as an opportunity to speak with them about your "new" role. Perhaps if they are going to make it official they in will include a bump in pay since it now requires additional training.

[peterm15]

they can fire you for whatever they want. Really – ANYTHING - from your hair cut to ethnicity and sexual orientation or because your boss just doesn't like you.

Not quite true but i do understand your point, If past a probation period ( some companies up to a year but usually 3 mnths) a company needs a valid reason to fire a person. With some exclusions (ie. stealing), at least one written notice is required. ( They can give you notice for refusing to change your harstyle) Now that doesnt mean they cant make things up.

I just mainly dont understand why you dont want to take the course, other than its boreing.
I take WHMIS every year even though i dont need it, at all, i work with my family in a small 2 person window company ( also not regulated).
The comapny may decide your not a fit for further promotion, which will hinder your career ( in this company and others)

[Jackal]

I just mainly dont understand why you dont want to take the course, other than its boreing.
I take WHMIS every year even though i dont need it, at all, i work with my family in a small 2 person window company ( also not regulated).
The comapny may decide your not a fit for further promotion, which will hinder your career ( in this company and others)

If you don't like the job, there may be other jobs that you may like if you continue to advance in the company. Many companies if not all want you to be a
"continuous learner" so doing these courses
is part of any job whether it be in insurance or not.

[SKYMP3]

If you don't like the job, there may be other jobs that you may like if you continue to advance in the company. Many companies if not all want you to be a
"continuous learner" so doing these courses
is part of any job whether it be in insurance or not.


I agree, is part of your job. Especially for insurance or any financial jobs, courses and tests are almost required every once a while.

[Riftler]

Thanks for all the input guys. Well to sum up some points that were brought up, I did get a raise, and that is what makes me think its a promotion and not a job shift. As for the course, I guess I should of mentioned it earlier, but I was told a couple weeks ago and I have a deadline that I need to take the course by. Even if I did plan to take the course, I do not see it being professional or whatever telling someone you need to do a course on their own time in a specific time period. I just felt it was very abrupt, and it came out of no where. I know a lot of you see it differently but thats just my opinion.

[towelsnap]

I hear ya same position as you and I just took the course.... even though you hate deadlines and testing (I do anyways lol) it makes it more worth while just to do it and get it over with. Think of it this way more things to add to a resume :P

[Unoriginalusername]

Thanks for all the input guys. Well to sum up some points that were brought up, I did get a raise, and that is what makes me think its a promotion and not a job shift. As for the course, I guess I should of mentioned it earlier, but I was told a couple weeks ago and I have a deadline that I need to take the course by. Even if I did plan to take the course, I do not see it being professional or whatever telling someone you need to do a course on their own time in a specific time period. I just felt it was very abrupt, and it came out of no where. I know a lot of you see it differently but thats just my opinion.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2005-11-06-gen-y_x.htm

"Generation Y is much less likely to respond to the traditional command-and-control type of management still popular in much of today's workforce," says Jordan Kaplan, an associate managerial science professor at Long Island University-Brooklyn in New York. "They've grown up questioning their parents, and now they're questioning their employers. They don't know how to shut up, which is great, but that's aggravating to the 50-year-old manager who says, 'Do it and do it now.' "

:chuckle it's not your fault you fit into a generational stereotype :) Suck it up and do the course or go somewhere else where you're happy to do what's required.