Compatible Big Turbos?

[Snotrocket]

Lately becoming very interested in the big turbo setups after seeing so many coming to the GTA.... Could anyone explain to me different turbo sizing as well as manufacturers compatible with our cars? Also a list of advantages/disadvantages to each of these BT's?

Eg. differences between a 3071r/3076/2871.. what do these numbers represent? What is the "r" referring to?


Same questions for different A/R? .50, .60, .70 ect.

[BlueStreak]

I'll start off.

If you want to stick with the stock manifold/downpipe dimensions, you will have to go with the ATP or BNR turbos. They are designed to mate up to our exhaust manifold flange and downpipe bolt pattern.

Within the ATP solutions, you have the 2871, 3071, 3076 and the mighty 35R (listed in order of flow capability from least to most). From what I have seen, whp capabilities are as follows:
2871 - 350 to 370ish whp
3071 - 380 to 400ish whp
3076 - 400 to 450ish whp
35R - 500whp

Turbo lag comes at the cost of greater flow.

With the BNR solution, I just suggest going with the stage 3 as it is the closest to being a big turbo. It is basically a 2871 in a stock K04 compressor and turbine housing and flows much like a 2871.

With respect to the A/R, it refers to the size of the hot side of the turbo. If you stick with the bolt on solutions listed above, your A/R is fixed at .50. If you decide to go with a T3 flange for instance, you can get a larger sized A/R turbo that is capable of flowing even more air.

So, you can have a .50 A/R 3071 turbo and a .84 A/R 3071 turbo (for example) with the larger A/R flowing more air and capable of making more power.

This isn't a complete explanation but it's a good chunk :-)

Cheers,
Dave


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snotrocket]

great info... does the "3071" represent a specific measurement?

[BlueStreak]

I also recommend being fully bolted before going big turbo. You don't want to throw one of these guys on only to have a flow restriction to overcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlueStreak]

Yes. The Garret Turbo website explains what those numbers mean.

Ah, before I forget, the ATP turbos are made by Garrett. I believe they have exclusive rights to the flange that makes the turbo a bolt on solution for our cars; hence calling it an ATP turbo.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlueStreak]

Turbo sizing is broken down into the following:
- the size of the opening in the hot side (generally, the size of the exhaust manifold flange).
- the size of the exhaust exit in the hot side.
- the size of the turbine in the hot side.
- the size of the compressor opening.
- the size of the compressor exit.
- the size of the compressor wheel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snotrocket]

Helpful info thanks. I hear -cj- has a 3076 for grabs. And I'm looking to go straight and fast not tracking. This might be a great buy for me :).

[BlueStreak]

Here's some reading: http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/tech_center/turbo_tech102.html

-cj-'s turbo will require a proper exhaust manifold flange to run on our cars. I think he's looking to swap out the hot side for one that will be a direct bolt on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fobio]

I have yet to see a 400whp MS3 w/ a 3071...lol...

edit: on 100% on street gas anyway ;)

[PearlM3]

Mike you truly are a baller haha, I have nothing constructive to tell you, other than to suggest not going with a bigger turbo, but rather an LS3 engine swap! That would give you true baller status!

[BlueStreak]

I have yet to see a 400whp MS3 w/ a 3071...lol...

edit: on 100% on street gas anyway ;)

Driver311 did it on 30% E85, 70% pump. I'm sure that's what you meant by the street gas caveat.

I'm sure the same can be achieved with meth and a whole lot of timing.

[Fobio]

Driver311 did it on 30% E85, 70% pump. I'm sure that's what you meant by the street gas caveat.

I'm sure the same can be achieved with meth and a whole lot of timing.

at that point, you might as well go with a bigger turbo, without running so much more timing and meth.

but not to say it can't be done...I have a feeling Virtual Dyno reads low in the way I've been using it anyway...

[BlueStreak]

at that point, you might as well go with a bigger turbo, without running so much more timing and meth.

Good point.

I kind've wish I went with the 3076. If only I saw the light of Time Attack sooner.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Good point.

I kind've wish I went with the 3076. If only I saw the light of Time Attack sooner.

a 3076 would depend on which track you plan on spending the most time at....Mosport DDT, a 3076 is a waste. Mosport GP, the only spot where you'd make use of the additional power up top is the back straight and, even then, you'd have to worry about spool-on coming out of 5b. Shannonville full track, maybe but i haven't run there with the MS3 so I can't comment.

with the K04, i've been top 3 (http://www.sigmatimeattack.com/july-24-2011/) and top 4 (http://www.sigmatimeattack.com/june-26-2011/) in the test and tune portion of Sigma Time Attack (Mosport DDT CCW with 2 kinks) with some good tires .... i was turning 1:09s all morning on 07/24 and then the tires went south in the afternoon... i should've saved them for the time attack. :(

in any case, what i'm trying to say is don't regret getting the 3071 ;)

[Fobio]

yeah, once I sort out my spool-on, the 3071 is literally like a bigger K04.

if I was to go bigger, it'd have to be a twinscroll.

[Fack_Dude]

I will be ordering the bnr stage 3 turbo once I'm back from vacation. My reworked pgk04 is a piece of shit.... Lol. I don't have the balls to do the atr route.

[BlueStreak]

I want the best of all worlds. I just have to properly align my expectations with reality. :chuckle

Sometimes when I'm driving, I get annoyed at the lag of the 3071 in part throttle conditions and wish it would spool quicker. Then, as I'm going full wick, I want some more top end... I want both! At any rate, it still pulls pretty darn hard and I like the fact that I can feel myself being pushed into the seat. I had to really concentrate with the K04 to get the same sensation.


I will be ordering the bnr stage 3 turbo once I'm back from vacation. My reworked pgk04 is a piece of shit.... Lol. I don't have the balls to do the atr route.

Do you mean ATP route? Its all bolt on. You'll just have to get a larger turbo inlet pipe.

[-cj-]

BlueStreak pretty much covered it all. The 3071 is a great turbo for people that want power without too much lag. The 3076 is for people who don't mind a little bit of lag and want massive power. The GT35's are for people who are patient and want to look at the driver of the GTR as they reel them in lol.

Some notes: (Applicable to 3071 and 3076, not sure about the GT35s...)

1) Once you get going and rev out your engine, our gearing keeps the engine at high revs anyway, so turbo lag will be gone. IE: If you can keep your RPMs at 4000-4500, you'll never know you have a larger turbo.

2) If you're a baller, buy an HTA 3076 and you'll get spool time similar to a 3071r but the performance of a 3076. But ATP doesn't make this, so you'll need to buy an HTA turbo and throw on an ATP hot side to make it plug and play...

3) ATP hot sides hold back power at the expense of making it an easy bolt on solution. You'll most likely realize this and want to move up. I wouldn't change out your exhaust manifold until you commit to a turbo hot side ;)

4) A lot of the "What RPM will I see full boost?" questions you see on the Internet usually apply to 1.6, 1.8 and 2.0 litter engines. Our 2.3 will spool a little quicker... but keep in mind we don't have the high RPMs of a Honda, so a GT35 might make you sh!t your pants for only a short time....

5) I know it sounds silly, but a larger turbo is actually safer for your car. You don't want to be making too much boost below 3000 rpm. On that note:



I will be ordering the bnr stage 3 turbo once I'm back from vacation. My reworked pgk04 is a piece of shit.... Lol. I don't have the balls to do the atr route.

I wouldn't waste my time or money on a BNR turbo. No offence to anyone that bought one. I'm sure they're great turbos, but you might as well get a 2871 or a 3071 turbo. You will thank yourself in the end. They aren't any more risky then the BNR turbos... in fact, they're probably safer on your car.

If you have 3071r drivers wishing they went 3076, you probably should look at 3071 min. =) IMO of course...

[CelestSpeed3]

So i understand the whole idea of a bolt on turbo such as the ATP ones. I'm curious though, if you change your manifold to one with a T3 flange can you then still use a downpipe with a stock flange or does the downpipe have to be changed as well?

[-cj-]

So i understand the whole idea of a bolt on turbo such as the ATP ones. I'm curious though, if you change your manifold to one with a T3 flange can you then still use a downpipe with a stock flange or does the downpipe have to be changed as well?

TMK, it doesn't exist. Usually by the time you go non-OEM flanges, you'll be dealing with a v-band down pipe instead of the stock 5 bolt flange. It's strange, because the OEM down pipe flange doesn't seem that restrictive...

I actually have a unused 5 bolt flange to v-band adapter that's meant for an MS6, but I wouldn't go down that path IMO.

[BlueStreak]

So i understand the whole idea of a bolt on turbo such as the ATP ones. I'm curious though, if you change your manifold to one with a T3 flange can you then still use a downpipe with a stock flange or does the downpipe have to be changed as well?

New downpipe required; v-band style most likely.

EDIT: Woop, -cj- beat me to it.

[Mty Mous]

How about the CP-e Elevate turbo ... would you say they're in the same league as the BNR Stage3 then?

[mikey32235]

they have the same idea, but I've heard BNR S3 has better results. :)

[Mr Wilson]

Pretty much what Mikey said, if you're looking for a drop in replacement turbo the bnr s3 should come out less, better results and I believe be more reliable with the internals it runs.

[CelestSpeed3]

I would say the cpe turbo kit is a lot better then any stock flange setup. The mechanical tunablity is what you are paying for.

[Elusivellama]

What are the stock engine internals good to, roughly? Obviously there is no set magical number... just looking for a ball park.

[daddy_phatstax]

Can we get a bump on this question?



What are the stock engine internals good to, roughly? Obviously there is no set magical number... just looking for a ball park.

[Fack_Dude]

Can we get a bump on this question?

500whp at wot.

[loki]

500whp at wot.

He's kidding btw

[breakfasteatre]

I think the magic number is 450 lb/ft, actually


oh yeah, and at wot. rofl