View Full Version : loki's logs
loaded up the AP.
was gonna just go for a stage 0 map but said to hell with it and loaded the Stage 1 + SF 91 oct.
anyway went to try and get some MAF logs so that I can calibrate the MAF but clearly could not find a good spot to do this, also any pointers on the best way to get the data for this would be helpful...
so instead went and took a bunch of 3rd gear logs and a very short 4th gear log.
there's a bunch of knock in the 4th gear log. :bang
but tonight was just about collecting data. tomorrow I'll sit down and try to figure out what it all means.
5697
5696
5698
I don't even think adding these attachments even worked....
Fobio
08-27-2011, 12:47 PM
looking at your 4th gear log:
1. you let off!...pin it to the floor!
2. you can tweak your OL/CL transition.
3. do a normal MAF calibration...then you may also need to tweak your MAF a bit for WOT AFR's.
4. the knock might be a result of doing multiple runs. it's not severe, but it's not helping you make more power.
good luck! let me know if you want to get tuned.
looking at your 4th gear log:
1. you let off!...pin it to the floor!
2. you can tweak your OL/CL transition.
3. do a normal MAF calibration...then you may also need to tweak your MAF a bit for WOT AFR's.
4. the knock might be a result of doing multiple runs. it's not severe, but it's not helping you make more power.
good luck! let me know if you want to get tuned.
had to let off. unless I wanted my car to become a mazdaspeed3/corolla hybrid!!!!!
highway was way too busy for a 4th gear log.
and yeh I'm going to do the MAF calibration and then start the process of going through all the tables to tweak.
ok here's a quick 4th gear log from tonite. not alllll the way to redline, but not too bad either.
ok that didn't work....
So I'm commanding an AFR of 11, and I'm nowhere close...
also getting a whole bunch of knock..
what should I do here? Really wasn't expecting to see the AFR that off :bang
edit: the boost is off too. I'm targeting 17.5 psi max. even the fuel pressure is high although targetting max 1800 psi. It's like it's not reading what the AP is commanding?!?!
I did third gear log cause it's easier. but then took this log on ramp onto QEW from Brown's line. Not the longest ramp either and some G35 thought I wanted to race....
5839
BlueStreak
09-19-2011, 08:23 AM
There is so much potential here to unlock teh fastz.
1) Have you updated your COBB AP and ATR recently? That logging rate is very very slow. With the updated firmware, you'll get faster resolution.
2) Which fuel tables did you alter? Generally, you should alter all of them appropriately. I think Abilor covers this in his tuning guide. For instance, the OL tables, make them 11.0 across the board and the PT tables, make them 11.0 in the areas above 1.0-1.25 calculated load (depending on your commanded closed loop exit) and interpolate 5 rows up. Make your knocking tables a little richer.
3) Knock isn't that bad. It'll fix itself once you calibrate the MAF properly. Right now, the car is flowing more air than it is metering (as noted by the leaner than commanded AFRs) and is therefore applying a timing advance that is too aggressive given the airflow/fuel which is causing you to knock.
4) For calibrating the MAF, I would multiply any MAF scalar reading above 100g/s with 1.05 (11.5/11.0=1.05) and do another datalog. There are areas where you reach 11.8 so it may require another slight calibration.
5) Fixing boost will require altering WGDC but by the looks of it, the turbo isn't even breaking a sweat hitting 18.5PSI so you may want to keep it there for more powah. There is also room to keep a more aggressive boost profile to redline if you wish. That taper down to ~14PSI must really make the car feel like it falls on its face.
Cheers,
Dave
fywdyl
09-19-2011, 09:47 AM
Pretty much everything Dave said. Are you just changing the AFRs for now? Are you starting w/ an OTS map?
Guess dudes that drive Infiniti's have something to prove cuz a G37 sedan thought I wanted to race when I was doing a 3rd gear log.
There is so much potential here to unlock teh fastz.
1) Have you updated your COBB AP and ATR recently? That logging rate is very very slow. With the updated firmware, you'll get faster resolution.
2) Which fuel tables did you alter? Generally, you should alter all of them appropriately. I think Abilor covers this in his tuning guide. For instance, the OL tables, make them 11.0 across the board and the PT tables, make them 11.0 in the areas above 1.0-1.25 calculated load (depending on your commanded closed loop exit) and interpolate 5 rows up. Make your knocking tables a little richer.
3) Knock isn't that bad. It'll fix itself once you calibrate the MAF properly. Right now, the car is flowing more air than it is metering (as noted by the leaner than commanded AFRs) and is therefore applying a timing advance that is too aggressive given the airflow/fuel which is causing you to knock.
4) For calibrating the MAF, I would multiply any MAF scalar reading above 100g/s with 1.05 (11.5/11.0=1.05) and do another datalog. There are areas where you reach 11.8 so it may require another slight calibration.
5) Fixing boost will require altering WGDC but by the looks of it, the turbo isn't even breaking a sweat hitting 18.5PSI so you may want to keep it there for more powah. There is also room to keep a more aggressive boost profile to redline if you wish. That taper down to ~14PSI must really make the car feel like it falls on its face.
Cheers,
Dave
Dave,
Looking at the log I didn't think the resolution was slow. Approx. 5 data points per second. The Ap is at it's latest update. Could you explain why you think it's slow?
I'm targetting 17.7 psi with a taper down to 16 psi. I haven't touched the WGDC tables yet so I believe that's why the boost is all over the place. It's a stage 1 - + SF + FMIC 91 Octane. Using the FMIC map because we upgraded to the cp-e TMIC and you suggest running that map.
I updated ALL the fuel tables. 11's across the board from 1.25 load and 2500 rpm. the only table that is different is the knocking tables that has a line of 10.6's which is the max it supposed to fuel incase of problems. however, monitoring AFR it was still hitting AFR's as low as 9.8 I believe. You'll have to explain where you want to interpolate, I can't picture it right now. (If you're working on the car tonight, maybe I'll swing by with my laptop - logging/tuning on the fly!)
As far as the LTFT in closed loop go, they're now within ABS 2. Finally figured it out on that road all the way in Stoufville. Did 3 logs and they were consistent. It was only off by -2.5 max down low anyway, although I feel in the lowest range it's off a bit more but I couldn't get the car to start below 4 g/s or so.
Didn't end up going on that dinner date with the wife. Ended up flashing the MAP with new calibration and convinced her that we now need to go for a 75 km drive to get the car to learn the new fuel trims. and she agreed to come along for an extended cruise. BEST WIFE IN THE WORLD FTMFW!!!!
I'll calibrate the open loop portion of the MAF like you said and see how that goes. Do I need to drive a sh!t ton again to let it learn before taking a few logs?
Pretty much everything Dave said. Are you just changing the AFRs for now? Are you starting w/ an OTS map?
Guess dudes that drive Infiniti's have something to prove cuz a G37 sedan thought I wanted to race when I was doing a 3rd gear log.
Fywdyl, I think I answered this in my reply to Dave couple lines up. Yeh it's an OTS map to start.
So far I've changed everything except the WGDC tables. i.e. load, closed loop exit, fuel, HPFP, boost targets etc etc.
and F$%K Infiniti! I think I scared the shit out of him because I just kinda showed up in front of him from the on ramp...
p.s. why is the fueling exceeding 1800 psi even tho I'm targeting max 1778.7? I see it as high as 1900 in that log.
p.p.s It sucks that I'll have to start over again when the new cp-e downpipe goes in shortly, but this is all part of the learning process which is good.
BlueStreak
09-19-2011, 11:34 AM
With the latest AP firmware, you should be getting logging rates every .1-.15 secs. See this (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?54848-BlueStreak-goes-BT&p=819000&viewfull=1#post819000) datalog. You also need to run the latest BT maps as well.
Yep, the current map you are running is fine until you get things up to speed. In addition to updated WGDC values to compensate for the decrease in flow restriction, boost cut and fuel cut values are changed to accomodate the increased airflow.
Upon having a look at your datalogs again, I would multiply your fueling above 100g/s by 1.07 (11.8/11.0 = 1.07) as the 11.5 AFRs was due to the ECU adding more fuel because of knock. I missed that earlier. That calibration should get you right on par with commanded vs. actual.
Once your ECU is properly calibrated, you no longer need to drive 50+KM to have the LTFTs settle. LTFTs are only managed under closed loop. Seeing as how yours were fine, there is no benefit in letting them relearn.
Fuel pressures fluctuate up and down. Its not a value that is pegged to what you command. Don't worry about the slight variance.
I won't be working on my car tonight as i'll be busy. I also need a day or two off from tinkering with that thing; spent the whole weekend on it. On a side note, I am glad my girlfriend is in Alberta/BC visiting her brother and travelling with her sister so I don't feel bad for spending so much time getting things back online.
will check again for updates.
where do you go to look for maps? the cobb website only seemed to have a few...
Mr Wilson
09-19-2011, 12:47 PM
http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/?id=4100
Look under calibrations and follow the prompts....hopefully that's what you are looking for.
I been there already. They don't have many maps, and they don't even have the maps that came pre-loaded on my AP.
BlueStreak
09-19-2011, 12:57 PM
Did you check for "Beta Software/Firmware" when you updated?
It may no longer be in Beta. I'm not 100% sure since I haven't looked at AP related stuff since I pulled my motor.
Did you check for "Beta Software/Firmware" when you updated?
It may no longer be in Beta. I'm not 100% sure since I haven't looked at AP related stuff since I pulled my motor.
will check again tonight when I get home from work.
OK I updated the firmware on the AP and it downloaded the latest maps which allow boost tuning and faster resolution while logging.
thing is, for Stage 1 they only have + SF. They don't have a map for an upgraded TMIC.
do you think I should just flash the new map and start tuning again or should I continue with the Stage 1 + SF + FMIC?
Fack_Dude
09-19-2011, 07:43 PM
Have you gone cooco cooco for coco puffs.........:loco:loco You don't use the fmic map for the top mount intercooler
Have you gone cooco cooco for coco puffs.........:loco:loco You don't use the fmic map for the top mount intercooler
:)
boyracer
09-19-2011, 07:53 PM
:pop you guy's are so entertaining.... who needs t.v.
BlueStreak
09-19-2011, 08:05 PM
It'll barely make a difference. Going from no FMIC/TMIC to a FMIC/TMIC is the biggest jump. Variances between the two in a base OTS map are negligible. I wouldn't expect the differences to extend past (minor changes in) WGDC. Well, differences that *matter* anyways.
Besides, if anything, he's using it as a starting point so in the end it won't matter.
Fobio
09-19-2011, 08:19 PM
It'll barely make a difference. Going from no FMIC/TMIC to a FMIC/TMIC is the biggest jump. Variances between the two in a base OTS map are negligible. I wouldn't expect the differences to extend past (minor changes in) WGDC. Well, differences that *matter* anyways.
Besides, if anything, he's using it as a starting point so in the end it won't matter.
I concur...just start off with the SRI + IC map...Cobb isn't ignorant of the fact that there are TMIC's out there. Perhaps even more so than FMIC. The message is either run the Stg1+SRI map without an IC or run the FMIC map at your own peril/tune.
You will be fine. I've tuned 2 other cars and started off with the FMIC maps that are running TMIC's.
The only difference tuning wise will likely be lower sustained boost and a more aggressive taper to redline...all to control heat. And likely slightly less timing in the high end on the final tune.
:pop you guy's are so entertaining.... who needs t.v.
get an AP and you can join the saga
It'll barely make a difference. Going from no FMIC/TMIC to a FMIC/TMIC is the biggest jump. Variances between the two in a base OTS map are negligible. I wouldn't expect the differences to extend past (minor changes in) WGDC. Well, differences that *matter* anyways.
Besides, if anything, he's using it as a starting point so in the end it won't matter.
updated the firmware and now we be gettin' like 9 data points/sec. so nuff respect for that reminder to update my sh!t.
went out in the rain and did a 3rd gear log...can you say wheelspin?!?! anyway there's definitely some fine tuning to do which I can deal with just this second because I have to go to winnipeg tomorrow for 3 days for work. FML....I'll post the log anyways. Boost spiked really high. you'll see in the log.
I concur...just start off with the SRI + IC map...Cobb isn't ignorant of the fact that there are TMIC's out there. Perhaps even more so than FMIC. The message is either run the Stg1+SRI map without an IC or run the FMIC map at your own peril/tune.
You will be fine. I've tuned 2 other cars and started off with the FMIC maps that are running TMIC's.
The only difference tuning wise will likely be lower sustained boost and a more aggressive taper to redline...all to control heat. And likely slightly less timing in the high end on the final tune.
thanks for the reassurance
not a proper log because couldn't keep the car floored and couldn't get grip but thought it would be good to show the numbers at least.
5844
BlueStreak
09-19-2011, 10:19 PM
Definitely a goofy log.
Your g/s have improved quite a bit. At 56XXRPM, you're outflowing your previous datalog and haven't reached redline. Of course, this was just from a MAF calibration but it definitely puts the ECU in the proper place when targeting proper load (if you're using load tables), ignition advance, closed loop exit etc.
Good stuff.
breakfasteatre
09-19-2011, 10:41 PM
so with you engine apart, 4 free cylinders, im thinking, i take one cylinder, you take another, chris has another, and we have one open. We can hold hands, itll be like back in the day playing swords.
right?
breakfasteatre
09-19-2011, 10:42 PM
yeah, that was weird and random
yeah, that was weird and random
I just watched the roast of Charlie Sheen.
but with the amount of drugs you must be on to post that, maybe it should have been the roast of Breakfasteatre. lay off the tiger blood. haha
breakfasteatre
09-20-2011, 06:56 PM
that shit was rude man! holy, the woman in the short dress, omg i was laughing but it was harrshhh
off to take some logs.
taking the laptop with me to fine tune on-the-fly.
will post up the results when I get back.
boyracer
09-26-2011, 09:34 PM
Go get 'em
Fack_Dude
09-26-2011, 09:34 PM
off to take some logs.
taking the laptop with me to fine tune on-the-fly.
will post up the results when I get back.
You do that!!!! Make sure you redline the bitch in 4th:huge smile
OK. here's the 3 logs I pulled for the night. All 3 were 3rd gear logs.
So the first log was after I reflashed the map (tune) after Bluestreak and I did a bit of tinkering (ok I really didn't do anything, just tried to follow along..)
5868
After having a look at that log, there was some crazy KR there especially at the end as it went beyond 6200 rpm. Car felt fine and the engine sounded normal. Is this real knock?
Anyway, pulled over and started adjusting the map (tune). Changed a bunch of the MAF calibration and turns out I put the formula in wrong and sent everything in the wrong direction as you will see in the next 2 logs where the actual AFR gets further away from my target...:bang
Anyway, I reduced the boost from 5500 to redline and also adjusted the WGDC to try and hit the boost more accurately. Again in the 2nd log, there was some pretty crazy knock..the 3rd log I didn't pull all the way to 6700rpm and knock was pretty minimal.
5869
5870
Anyway the last log was just an afterthought and decided why the hell not on the ramp. Very slight uphill. shouldn't really make a drastic difference.
Since I've been home, I have readjusted the MAF voltages again, and tweaked the WGDC's some more. Will have to do some more logs tomorrow night again to see how that went. So question for the senior tuners, you'll see on my logs I've added a formula for the delta AFR. I have been zeroing in on the off targets and adjusting the MAF voltage in that range. Is this a good or bad idea? :loco
awaiting your thoughts, while I go sleep and pray that I don't blow up my sh!t.:whoa
BlueStreak
09-27-2011, 08:16 AM
Now you have a better(ish) idea of what is going on with the car after enabling your knock sensor up to redline.
I say "ish" because the KR you are seeing near redline may actually be engine noise (which is why Mazda disables the knock sensor at 5750 and COBB provides the OTS tunes with the same knock sensor setting).
A few ways to determine if it is real knock:
- pull timing in the areas where you see knock. If KR stops, it was real knock. If not, most likely phantom.
- richen AFRs by .5 points or so. If KR stops, it was real knock. If not, most likely phantom.
- run a higher octane fuel or spray meth (if you have).
If you have come to conclusion that it is phantom knock, you can reduce the sensitivity in the high rpm, high load area by altering the values in the "Knock Retard Offset" table. ONLY if it's legit phantom KR.
Unfortunately, I'm on my phone right now and can't see your datalogs. I'll have a look once I'm near a computer.
Oh and MAP is generally the "Mass Air Pressure" sensor or the sensor that "reads boost". At first, that's what I thought you were referring to. Then I realized you meant the tune.
Cheers.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Oh and MAP is generally the "Mass Air Pressure" sensor or the sensor that "reads boost". At first, that's what I thought you were referring to. Then I realized you meant the tune.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
yeh I was thinking that when I wrote it, but it was 2am and said meh. I've edited the post again to clarify. When you actually open the logs hopefully you're not like "WUH DE RASSCLAAAAAT!! KNOCK!!"
we shall see.
I say "ish" because the KR you are seeing near redline may actually be engine noise (which is why Mazda disables the knock sensor at 5750 and COBB provides the OTS tunes with the same knock sensor setting).
A few ways to determine if it is real knock:
- pull timing in the areas where you see knock. If KR stops, it was real knock. If not, most likely phantom.
- richen AFRs by .5 points or so. If KR stops, it was real knock. If not, most likely phantom.
- run a higher octane fuel or spray meth (if you have).
If you have come to conclusion that it is phantom knock, you can reduce the sensitivity in the high rpm, high load area by altering the values in the "Knock Retard Offset" table. ONLY if it's legit phantom KR.
Tonight I will drop the AFR to about 11 from about 6000 rpm and beyond and see what happens. If that doesn't do anything I'll add an octane booster and see if that changes anything.
If it is phantom knock which from what you said Mazda and Cobb seem to expect, then it would make sense to have sensor off or less sensitive because clearly from the logs you can see that the ECU is dumping a ton of fuel to try and cut the knock.
hopefully though it isn't real knock. tonight will tell.
Fobio
09-27-2011, 05:31 PM
Here's a few things to consider.
- knock is not always audible when you're in the cabin @ crusing speeds
- knock retard = timing retard...whether it's real or not, it'll cause your engine to pull timing and thus loss of power
- before proceeding to make more power, the knock issue should be resolved
- you don't have knock in most of the rpm range...that's a good start
- you're already running pretty rich in the areas you're knocking
- when you refer to adjusting MAF voltage, are you doing in the percentage that it's off your commanded AFR, by adjusting the MAF sensor's g/s? [the terminology needs to be apporpriate/consistent so others can relate and assist]
- slight uphills do make a difference to load
- ...keep an open mind and not dwell on what you want to see...rather focus on what the car/log is telling you...
since at the first seminar, you did not have the AP then, so it was hard to follow along...now that you've gotten your toes wet, you should come to our next seminar that will focus on using the newest ATR and tuning techniques:
*MSpeed* Tuning Seminar - 2nd Edition (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?56775-*MSpeed*-Tuning-Seminar-2nd-Edition)
And of course, since you've been working with Dave, it's not much of a stretch to have him apply his MSpeed Custom Tune for your car, and work with you each step along your modification path to ensure you're getting the most out of your mods.
At the very least, think of the tuning seminar and along with a custom tune, as insurance from blowing your sh!t up.
breakfasteatre
09-27-2011, 05:39 PM
cruise up n down the 404? :P
Here's a few things to consider.
- knock is not always audible when you're in the cabin @ crusing speeds
- knock retard = timing retard...whether it's real or not, it'll cause your engine to pull timing and thus loss of power
- before proceeding to make more power, the knock issue should be resolved
- you don't have knock in most of the rpm range...that's a good start
- you're already running pretty rich in the areas you're knocking- when you refer to adjusting MAF voltage, are you doing in the percentage that it's off your commanded AFR, by adjusting the MAF sensor's g/s? [the terminology needs to be apporpriate/consistent so others can relate and assist]
- slight uphills do make a difference to load
- ...keep an open mind and not dwell on what you want to see...rather focus on what the car/log is telling you...
since at the first seminar, you did not have the AP then, so it was hard to follow along...now that you've gotten your toes wet, you should come to our next seminar that will focus on using the newest ATR and tuning techniques:
*MSpeed* Tuning Seminar - 2nd Edition (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?56775-*MSpeed*-Tuning-Seminar-2nd-Edition)
And of course, since you've been working with Dave, it's not much of a stretch to have him apply his MSpeed Custom Tune for your car, and work with you each step along your modification path to ensure you're getting the most out of your mods.
At the very least, think of the tuning seminar and along with a custom tune, as insurance from blowing your sh!t up.
first to address, the bold items.
1. isn't the car running rich because it is knocking?
2. and yes I'm applying that percentage to the g/s for the corresponding MAF voltage wherever the actual AFR is above or below my commanded AFR.
By working on this tuning alot by myself is how I learn more and more about the car. I need to be hands on in order to gain experience. To be honest I'm not really worried about blowing anything up because I'm not being super aggressive and I'm airing more towards the cautious side as the tune progresses.
BlueStreak
09-27-2011, 05:56 PM
Don't use octane booster. I'll explain later.
Busy!
But don't use it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Fobio
09-27-2011, 06:13 PM
first to address, the bold items.
1. isn't the car running rich because it is knocking?
2. and yes I'm applying that percentage to the g/s for the corresponding MAF voltage wherever the actual AFR is above or below my commanded AFR.
By working on this tuning alot by myself is how I learn more and more about the car. I need to be hands on in order to gain experience. To be honest I'm not really worried about blowing anything up because I'm not being super aggressive and I'm airing more towards the cautious side as the tune progresses.
Well...you did write this...all worried and all...
awaiting your thoughts, while I go sleep and pray that I don't blow up my sh!t.:whoa
even with 0.7 KR, your car's not in limp mode and you're @ 11.3...for reference, the cars I tune run 11.8 and leaner, and safely.
you car also upped boost around that area...this is what I'm referring to: you might want to run 17psi at redline, but your car with its current tune is saying "No"...
adjusting the MAF sensor is so that your commanded AFR matches your logged AFR, and should be adjusted as little times as possible. The possibility of making an error "on-the-fly" doing road-side tuning outweighs any appeals or benefit it may have. For reference, the fully bolted K04 I've tuned, I only had to adjust the MAF sensor once.
Don't use octane booster. I'll explain later.
Busy!
But don't use it!
this too Chris...before you sort out your tune and pin down the culprit, masking the symptoms doesn't solve anything.
this is where our seminar comes in where we get to share our best practices.
Fobio,
don't read into my post that I made last night at 2am as worry, but rather humour, and I won't read into your most recent posts as "loki you won't be able to do it"
this is where our seminar comes in where we get to share our best practices
I have no doubt that the seminar will be extremely well put together and very informative (as was the first one), but isn't this also what the TM3 forum is all about? People who have a similar interest helping people that share that interest and excitement.
The idea of tuning my car excites me. It is the reason why I went to bed at 2am even though I had to be up at 6am to go to work. It's the same reason that you're up at all odd hours gathering information and working on yours and others' tune.
masking the symptoms doesn't solve anything
as Bluestreak suggested, trying to see if it is true knock by running a higher octane fuel would help eliminate that from the equation. If I run the higher octane and it's still knocking then there is definitely a problem.
adjusting the MAF sensor is so that your commanded AFR matches your logged AFR, and should be adjusted as little times as possible. The possibility of making an error "on-the-fly" doing road-side tuning outweighs any appeals or benefit it may have. For reference, the fully bolted K04 I've tuned, I only had to adjust the MAF sensor once.
I understand the purpose of adjusting the MAF sensor. To be honest the calibration is pretty good and I was just trying to select a few pockets where it varied by about 1 or so. And yes I totally agree that the "on-the-fly" road side tuning can lead to some errors, especially at 1am. Even with my engineering background I still applied the percentage in the wrong direction which lead to the area I adjust being even more off target. I've dealt with that when I got home and will see from the logs tonight if everything has come back to where it should be.
you might want to run 17psi at redline, but your car with its current tune is saying "No"...
It was actually Bluestreak who suggested we aim for 17.5 psi because there was room with the WGDC. I've since cut it right down to 16.5 psi beyond 5500 rpm, and 16 psi from 6000 rpm to redline, and the car should have no problem hitting those targets.
With all that said, I trully respect your experience, and I've learnt alot about the way you diagnose problems from your older posts when commenting on posted logs, and I have no doubt that you will successfully tune many more speed3's as you develop the MSpeed Tuning endeavour as there is a huge market out there for those kinds of services, as you have no doubt discovered. If anyone approached me in an effort to get their car tuned, and tuner properly, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to send them your way.
However, a new generation of tuners needs to step up and start learning the ropes in order to one day (hopefully soon) provide solid advice with the confidence that people can follow their advice safely, and if this does not happen, well then there is going to be alot of empty space here on TM3, and I have already started to notice this. There are some members on here that are starting to do that. I hope to one day be one of them, which is why I will continue to tune and if I make a mistake, I'll keep on going, even if I have to calibrate my MAF 15 times to get it to where it should be.
Fack_Dude
09-27-2011, 07:03 PM
Fobio,
don't read into my post that I made last night at 2am as worry, but rather humour, and I won't read into your most recent posts as "loki you won't be able to do it"
I have no doubt that the seminar will be extremely well put together and very informative (as was the first one), but isn't this also what the TM3 forum is all about? People who have a similar interest helping people that share that interest and excitement.
The idea of tuning my car excites me. It is the reason why I went to bed at 2am even though I had to be up at 6am to go to work. It's the same reason that you're up at all odd hours gathering information and working on yours and others' tune.
as Bluestreak suggested, trying to see if it is true knock by running a higher octane fuel would help eliminate that from the equation. If I run the higher octane and it's still knocking then there is definitely a problem.
I understand the purpose of adjusting the MAF sensor. To be honest the calibration is pretty good and I was just trying to select a few pockets where it varied by about 1 or so. And yes I totally agree that the "on-the-fly" road side tuning can lead to some errors, especially at 1am. Even with my engineering background I still applied the percentage in the wrong direction which lead to the area I adjust being even more off target. I've dealt with that when I got home and will see from the logs tonight if everything has come back to where it should be.
It was actually Bluestreak who suggested we aim for 17.5 psi because there was room with the WGDC. I've since cut it right down to 16.5 psi beyond 5500 rpm, and 16 psi from 6000 rpm to redline, and the car should have no problem hitting those targets.
With all that said, I trully respect your experience, and I've learnt alot about the way you diagnose problems from your older posts when commenting on posted logs, and I have no doubt that you will successfully tune many more speed3's as you develop the MSpeed Tuning endeavour as there is a huge market out there for those kinds of services, as you have no doubt discovered. If anyone approached me in an effort to get their car tuned, and tuner properly, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to send them your way.
However, a new generation of tuners needs to step up and start learning the ropes in order to one day (hopefully soon) provide solid advice with the confidence that people can follow their advice safely, and if this does not happen, well then there is going to be alot of empty space here on TM3, and I have already started to notice this. There are some members on here that are starting to do that. I hope to one day be one of them, which is why I will continue to tune and if I make a mistake, I'll keep on going, even if I have to calibrate my MAF 15 times to get it to where it should be.
Well......why aren't you out logging............try to do a few 4th gear wots...................
Fobio
09-27-2011, 07:15 PM
At the end of the day, it's about results...and I've been offering ppl the avenue to achieve results and have seeded the effort to spread the word and a particular approach to tuning that will help others get the results they are looking for.
Ultimately, it's very difficult to get the point across over the Internet with regards to all the minute nuances I notice and would comment on. It best to communicate and establish a common understanding verbally. But this isn't about the seminars...
All the tools and info needed to tune your car is, surprisingly, already shared in this section. Piecing them all together and applying it, is what is challenging and fun. As you have said, others have done it, so there's no doubt that the information already seeded out there is bearing fruits.
Lastly, I didn't have the heart to just say it, but I think you're capable of handling it.
So without mincing words...your tune right now isn't working the way you want it to. The changes you have described in this page that you are making are not the type of changes I'd recommend. By commanding 17.5psi and dialing down now is already in contradiction as to your claimed approach of tuning up, as what we have already prescribed in our first seminar. I recommend that you review some of the tuning advise shared here on TM3, along with some up-to-date techniques on MSF for the new ATR so you can take advantage of what they have to offer. A lot of advise has been shared on this thread alone, including doing a 4th gear log [not turning, not uphill, traction control off, etc]. This is not to say you can't do it...as others already have. I am just trying to say you're going about it in a way that will create more variables for you to chase down rather than address the issues and obstacles stopping you from getting the results you desire. I recommend that you adjust your approach, rather than chasing targets.
Well......why aren't you out logging............try to do a few 4th gear wots...................
First I must feed my dog, give my wife some attention, then lay down 7 square feet of paving stones in my backyard then I can go play.
It's like I'm a kid again.
At the end of the day, it's about results...and I've been offering ppl the avenue to achieve results and have seeded the effort to spread the word and a particular approach to tuning that will help others get the results they are looking for.
agreed. No one is trying to take that away from you.
Ultimately, it's very difficult to get the point across over the Internet with regards to all the minute nuances I notice and would comment on. It best to communicate and establish a common understanding verbally. But this isn't about the seminars...
for sure. nothing beats face time vs post...wait...misunderstanding...repost....wait... etc etc. The seminars are a great idea.
Lastly, I didn't have the heart to just say it, but I think you're capable of handling it.
honesty will always work best with me. I deal with contractors all day and they by no means sugar coat the way they talk to me (although they're usually wrong :) )
By commanding 17.5psi and dialing down now is already in contradiction as to your claimed approach of tuning up, as what we have already prescribed in our first seminar.
I already mentioned that it was not I who commanded the 17.5 psi. I actually originally had commanded 16 and was working my way up. Now I am starting that again. You mentioned you tune cars with AFR of 11.8 and leaner. I started at 11 and currently have worked my way up to 11.5. This is in line with the logic introduced in your first seminar.
I recommend that you review some of the tuning advise shared here on TM3, along with some up-to-date techniques on MSF for the new ATR so you can take advantage of what they have to offer. A lot of advise has been shared on this thread alone, including doing a 4th gear log [not turning, not uphill, traction control off, etc]. This is not to say you can't do it...as others already have. I am just trying to say you're going about it in a way that will create more variables for you to chase down rather than address the issues and obstacles stopping you from getting the results you desire. I recommend that you adjust your approach, rather than chasing targets.
I can see how the variables can add up quickly and keeping track of all of them can be mind blowing.
I will do some more research in particular how Snotrocket and Fywdyl managed to dial in their tunes and the advice that was given to them.
At the end of the day, what I am trying to say is, I want a bit of a nudge in the right direction as oppose to just have someone do it for me.
that is all.
p.s. with regards to the 4th gear log, I agree that you can achieve more data as it's a longer pull, however, not everyone here is a complete nut like you going up and down limiting 4th gear. At the limit of 3rd I'm comfortable going out and doing logs at anytime. I rely on my car for work to get to construction sites and visit clients all around southern Ontario. Without my car I cannot do my job, so what do you think my boss will say if I lose my license because I was pulled over doing 4th gear logs trying to dial in my tune.
Back home in Barbados I drove everywhere balls to the wall without a care in the world, but up here I have too much to lose. The benefit of 4th gear log vs 3rd gear log just isn't worth it for what I am trying to achieve.
Fobio
09-27-2011, 08:27 PM
agreed. No one is trying to take that away from you.
for sure. nothing beats face time vs post...wait...misunderstanding...repost....wait... etc etc. The seminars are a great idea.
honesty will always work best with me. I deal with contractors all day and they by no means sugar coat the way they talk to me (although they're usually wrong :) )
I already mentioned that it was not I who commanded the 17.5 psi. I actually originally had commanded 16 and was working my way up. Now I am starting that again. You mentioned you tune cars with AFR of 11.8 and leaner. I started at 11 and currently have worked my way up to 11.5. This is in line with the logic introduced in your first seminar.
I can see how the variables can add up quickly and keeping track of all of them can be mind blowing.
I will do some more research in particular how Snotrocket and Fywdyl managed to dial in their tunes and the advice that was given to them.
At the end of the day, what I am trying to say is, I want a bit of a nudge in the right direction as oppose to just have someone do it for me.
that is all.
p.s. with regards to the 4th gear log, I agree that you can achieve more data as it's a longer pull, however, not everyone here is a complete nut like you going up and down limiting 4th gear. At the limit of 3rd I'm comfortable going out and doing logs at anytime. I rely on my car for work to get to construction sites and visit clients all around southern Ontario. Without my car I cannot do my job, so what do you think my boss will say if I lose my license because I was pulled over doing 4th gear logs trying to dial in my tune.
Back home in Barbados I drove everywhere balls to the wall without a care in the world, but up here I have too much to lose. The benefit of 4th gear log vs 3rd gear log just isn't worth it for what I am trying to achieve.
Be safe and enjoy your car. This is not to say you have to do it this way or that or else. It's just that it's also easier for us to have a continuous and progressive dialogue once you start making changes.
With regards to 4th gear logs...it's because it's the gear closest to a 1:1 ratio, as well, depending on tire/traction etc, 4th gear logs will likely have less traction issue and thus, anomalies to address. I'd think once I impress upon you, the technical merits of a 4th gear log that you'll do it naturally. No one is condoning speeding...
Tuning wise, and I suppose this high-lights a particular issue with tuning-by-posts is that a lot of nuances gets lost. And eventho a lot of advise is shared in the best interest, it may not necessarily apply: no doubt a custom tune with a lot of time can likely get you to 17.5psi, but if you prefer to do it yourself, I'd use that as a reference and ease up onto it, rather than hit it or not, knock and dial down. This applies to the AFR and MAF references I said earlier...they are just reference to work up to.
I am assuming you are using the newest v200 maps? And not adjusting an old map right?
EDIT: Throw up your map for us to take a look.
BlueStreak
09-27-2011, 08:31 PM
Wow, this is quite the discussion here.
We should also look into where this tune partially started; with the knock sensor off. I'd say from this point is the more legitimate starting point (MAF calibration included).
Before that, it was more or less a warm up to what should come next.
Now that the MAF is calibrated (or will be finalized soon - extremely important) and the knock sensor enabled as it should; tuning can begin.
Things just started IMO. The starting point is a little on the undesirable side but it's something you can now properly work with.
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I am assuming you are using the newest v200 maps? And not adjusting an old map right?
I am tuning with an old map (V1.08) because I wanted an intercooler option. However I guess this really isn't working. Would you recommend just starting over with a V200 map with just the +SF? Man my downpipe will be here in a few days and then its back to square one. Oh well that's the way it goes.
With regards to 4th gear logs...it's because it's the gear closest to a 1:1 ratio, as well, depending on tire/traction etc, 4th gear logs will likely have less traction issue and thus, anomalies to address.
did not know that. valuable information.
Throw up your map for us to take a look.
no idea how to do that. unless it's just like attaching the log
here is the map
edit: shit that didn't work.
my laptop will not connect to the internet, and my MAC won't read the map
Fobio
09-27-2011, 08:47 PM
my kneegrow...get rid of that razzclat old map put on the shiny new map...chk boost tune and go for a romp.
Just run the stg1+ map for now and tune up. Start from a clean fresh slate...the IC maps just runs more boost and maybe more timing but you can certainly work your way up to your own IC map. Besides, you are going stg2+ soon so you'll be doing it anyway.
here is the map
edit: shit that didn't work.
my laptop will not connect to the internet, and my MAC won't read the map
either change the file name and ask ppl to change it back (ie. txt)
but forget about the old map...start on a v200 instead.
my kneegrow...get rid of that razzclat old map put on the shiny new map...chk boost tune and go for a romp.
Just run the stg1+ map for now and tune up. Start from a clean fresh slate...the IC maps just runs more boost and maybe more timing but you can certainly work your way up to your own IC map. Besides, you are going stg2+ soon so you'll be doing it anyway.
either change the file name and ask ppl to change it back (ie. txt)
but forget about the old map...start on a v200 instead.
man now you're starting to talk like my bredren.
ok starting over as we speak with the v200 map.
BlueStreak
09-27-2011, 09:38 PM
About the octane booster. It coats your spark plugs in some reddish powder of sorts. I'm not opposed to boosting octane to check for phantom knock, just opposed to using octane booster.
Once I'm near a computer, I'll add more info.
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Ok so I ditched the old v1.08 map and went with the new Stage1+sf 91 octane V200 map.
applied the MAF calibration however it looks like my closed loop values are way off as the LTFT is showing -8. something I will have to re-visit.
I did however apply a bunch of changes to the stock map.
- changed peak boost target from 16 psi to 17.5 psi (you can see all boost targets in
the first log)
- bumped up the fuel cut limits in the boost tables
- changed the AFR targets to 11.5 (beyond 1.0 load and 2500 rpm)
- changed fuel pressure max to 1800 psi (1778.7 psi)
- turned the knock sensor up to max 6750 rpm
- adjust closed loop exit delay A to 15 instead of 30
- reduced both knock retard decay rates to 320 down from 640
anyway I did 4 3rd gear logs tonight.
At a glance:
- still getting the knock in the upper rpm.
- the AFRs are in my opinion still a little off, especially lower down in the rpms.
- not quite hitting the boost targets but this might be a result of the load tables being
to low.
although not quite hitting the boost targets, the boost is coming on very smoothly. the car does feel a hell of alot slower than before since before it was spiking at around 20 - 22 psi in the low rpm. But starting nice and smooth and working up to higher boost is a good thing.
and here are the logs...
5873
5874
5875
5876
BlueStreak
09-28-2011, 03:22 PM
Alright, about running the octane booster. Here's a photo of what your plugs will look like after running that stuff. No likey.
http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/5240/1004084.jpg
Chris was "running" a 1.08 map but had it resaved in ATR which auto-updates the map to the most recent spec. Alot of the map was dialed in and I don't expect the v2.0 boost tunes to provide a greater "starting" benefit. At most, there may be a plus to starting fresh as there hasn't been iterative saves on a map; anecdotal evidence suggests that tweaking a map multiple times and flashing it onto the ECU makes that map go wonky after a while.
One thing I'm not crazy about with the new v2.0 maps is the 1.0 load CL exit. 1.0 load can be hit in daily driving with just the mildest form of brisk acceleration. Not to mention, once you interpolate up from 1.0 load to ensure smooth fueling, you're playing with daily driving fuel economy and can expect it to be materially affected.
That is definitely a high knock count. Adding back the KR value to your spark advance, it looks like the ECU was trying to add something in the line of 10-12* at redline; nothing too crazy. Ironically, on one of your runs, KR values start right after 5750RPM (when the knock sensor turns off on OEM and COBB tunes). Your BATs got incredibly hot by run 3.
Did you hear the engine knocking at all, Chris? With 4*KR up top, you would definitely hear something. When an engine audibly knocks, you hear a "ticking" noise; something like a bunch of metal ball bearings being poured onto a glass table.
those spark plugs look nasty. no octane booster for my car.
Chris was "running" a 1.08 map but had it resaved in ATR which auto-updates the map to the most recent spec. Alot of the map was dialed in and I don't expect the v2.0 boost tunes to provide a greater "starting" benefit. At most, there may be a plus to starting fresh as there hasn't been iterative saves on a map; anecdotal evidence suggests that tweaking a map multiple times and flashing it onto the ECU makes that map go wonky after a while.
switched over to the V200 map from scratch and applied most of the same logic. took about 30 mins to get the map back to where I had the V1.08 map.
One thing I'm not crazy about with the new v2.0 maps is the 1.0 load CL exit. 1.0 load can be hit in daily driving with just the mildest form of brisk acceleration. Not to mention, once you interpolate up from 1.0 load to ensure smooth fueling, you're playing with daily driving fuel economy and can expect it to be materially affected.
Didn't really like this either, and had originally changed it all to 1.25, however spoke to Fobio, and he suggested leaving them alone for now. So I changed everything back before running the tune. That means that all values (AFR. Fuel, etc.) were adjusted from 1.0 Load & 2500 rpm beyond. Unlike the V1.08 map where we had values changed from 1.25 load and beyond and interpolated vertically to 1.0 load, when I changed the values from 1.0 load, I did not interpolate vertically.
I'm also thinking these load values of 1.0 are very low, however, I do not have enough experience yet to really say for certain where this value should be set.
when the car suddenly goes from an AFR of 14 to a commanded AFR of 11.5 can you say BLACK SMOKE PUFF???
Ironically, on one of your runs, KR values start right after 5750RPM (when the knock sensor turns off on OEM and COBB tunes). Your BATs got incredibly hot by run 3.
Hopefully ironic as in, we knew what were doing when we turned the KR sensor off after 5750 rpms as oppose to man you been blowing your shit up this entire time without knowing. haha
Did you hear the engine knocking at all, Chris? With 4*KR up top, you would definitely hear something. When an engine audibly knocks, you hear a "ticking" noise; something like a bunch of metal ball bearings being poured onto a glass table.
Like I mentioned before, the KR values reached as high as 5 in some of the logs and I was sure I would hear something, but I have not heard the engine doing anything different, and believe me I am very alert with these kind of things.
Remember my very first post about the strange sounds from the SRI? Let's not revisit that thread. I believe a certain member, who's name we shall not mention, was banned as a result of that thread. But that's not to say that it isn't in fact knocking...I mean you're hanging onto your steering wheel for dear life, you're watching out for police, you're watching out for cars in front of you, the windows are up, the exhaust is roaring, so maybe you wouldn't notice (maybe).
I haven't had a chance to really sit down and look at the logs in detail. I'm going to print them out and compare.
One thing that was different when I restarted with the fresh map, was that unlike Abilor's Tuning Guide, where you preset the TRL tables to about 2.30 load for each gear under normal BAT, this time, under Fobio's advice as a starting point, I left them as the OTS values. If you look at those values, they're pretty low (anywhere from 1.4 - 1.9 load if I can recall off the top of my head), however when looking at the logs, I see the calculated load for the most part was sitting just below 2.0 load.
If these tables do have an effect on the tune, and I'm pretty sure they do if not they wouldn't be there, I think that having lower load targets is causing the ECU to cut boost to be more in line with the tables, and as a result, I'm not able to hit my boost targets, unless of course the more experienced tuners think that the logs show that they hit the targets within reason. But that's just my immediate thought.
Didn't get a chance to look at the BAT's. Doing a run, then parking to sit and analyze the data on a side street, then getting on the ramp and doing another run probably is a factor in those high BAT's as there would be considerable heat soak, and although the new cp-e TMIC does clearly dissipate that heat soak quit quickly when you monitor BAT, that should play some role no?
If you look at the boost targets, it's pretty tame. I mean when you've been spiking in the 20's it'll feel very flat. However, the way the car is now, the boost comes on very smoothly. I was monitoring boost on the way up the highway and in 4th and 5th if I pushed a bit without downshifting, it would hit max 13 psi. Before it would spike a bit and hit as much as 15-16 psi and you'd feel the car move but I feel it put alot of unnecessary strain on the car. At first I thought, shit why is it only hitting 13 psi, I'm gonna have to do some "on-the-fly" roadside tuning....but then when I geared down to 3rd and really pushed it, the boost built up to 17 psi.
anyway that's all I got for now.
BlueStreak
09-28-2011, 04:20 PM
One thing that was different when I restarted with the fresh map, was that unlike Abilor's Tuning Guide, where you preset the TRL tables to about 2.30 load for each gear under normal BAT, this time, under Fobio's advice as a starting point, I left them as the OTS values. If you look at those values, they're pretty low (anywhere from 1.4 - 1.9 load if I can recall off the top of my head), however when looking at the logs, I see the calculated load for the most part was sitting just below 2.0 load.
Yeah, Fobio is right. Just leave them now. Back when Abilor wrote the guide, there was plenty more n00bness floating around the platform. Things have come quite a ways since those long weeks past. Haha.
Today, you can still play around with the TRL X Gear tables but you will have to add back the effect of those tables by adjusting the values in the load error correction and load dynamics tables. By zeroing out the LEC and LD tables, you essentially neuter the TRL X Gear tables. At the end of the day, the result is still the same.
Didn't get a chance to look at the BAT's. Doing a run, then parking to sit and analyze the data on a side street, then getting on the ramp and doing another run probably is a factor in those high BAT's as there would be considerable heat soak, and although the new cp-e TMIC does clearly dissipate that heat soak quit quickly when you monitor BAT, that should play some role no?
Yep. Parked car = BATs on fire. It helps to cruise on the highway to let cruising BATs get back to normal (this happens pretty quickly with the CPe TMIC) before romping on it once more.
Today, you can still play around with the TRL X Gear tables but you will have to add back the effect of those tables by adjusting the values in the load error correction and load dynamics tables. By zeroing out the LEC and LD tables, you essentially neuter the TRL X Gear tables. At the end of the day, the result is still the same.
Agreed, but as Fobio will stand behind, why have tables and then just neuter them. This is where you get into the hybrid tuning that will be discussed at the seminar. because in this tune, I have left the load error tables which is why I believe the car is pulling boost to correct for load.
Yep. Parked car = BATs on fire. It helps to cruise on the highway to let cruising BATs get back to normal (this happens pretty quickly with the CPe TMIC) before romping on it once more.
just looked at the third gear log and yeh the car was on fire. Literally went from parked to on ramp to WOT. In the 4th log though they have settled back down to somewhere more reasonable.
BlueStreak
09-28-2011, 05:30 PM
Agreed, but as Fobio will stand behind, why have tables and then just neuter them. This is where you get into the hybrid tuning that will be discussed at the seminar. because in this tune, I have left the load error tables which is why I believe the car is pulling boost to correct for load.
You sir, are pushing yourself into an area full of awesome ;-)
Hybrid is the way to go. Minimum.
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cp-e downpipe is here!!!
out with Stage 1 and in with Stage 2!
on a side note, my LTFT's are now sitting at -8 although they were within ABS 2 after I calibrated.
BlueStreak cleaned my MAF sensor for me the other night, do you think that could throw off the calibration?
BlueStreak
09-28-2011, 09:39 PM
Sure can ;-)
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Update:
Of course I open the box to have a look at the new addition to the mod family, and of course it's catless!!
who would have thought that you would specifically have to ask for a catted downpipe, when a catless downpipe is for "off-road" use only and on their website in the description it talks about how the downpipe replaces the 2 stock cats with one high-flow cat.
so now here I am 5 weeks later with a catless cp-e downpipe....what to do....
Fobio
09-29-2011, 12:16 AM
loki...first...that's ****ed up about the DP...you should talk to our friend.
I looked at one of your logs...your AFR's looks pretty steady. I mean you can OCD it, but I don't think it's something you need to worry about right now.
Your BAT's being up there, along with it being a 3rd gear log (and all the associated traction and all that), and a boost curve that doesn't taper down for the already hot BAT...those alone ccould be a bunch of minute reasons you have to sort out before the car will make power there. It's tough to say whether it's real knock or not...but having a buddy listen while you pull might help. I'd leave the knock sensor on for tuning sake...we're also diagnosing here, and there's no bliss in not knowing. Again, your AFR or MAF sensor is not the culprit.
Also, it seems like you're likely looking for more oomph, esp down low...from your boost curve, it looks like yout TRL tables are not "tracing" you actual Load as closely as it should...that's likely one reason for the oscillation amount that you see. Otherwise it's a good start other than the knock near the top of the rpm range.
Again, I think your MAF curve is not your culprit, unless a) you're getting wonky LTFT @ WOT, b) you're getting wonky LTFT during part throttle. You are getting neither so Bluestreak's calibration is good in that it should alleviate the need to adjust your MAF for now.
Focus on boost and load.
loki...first...that's ****ed up about the DP...you should talk to our friend.
I looked at one of your logs...your AFR's looks pretty steady. I mean you can OCD it, but I don't think it's something you need to worry about right now.
Your BAT's being up there, along with it being a 3rd gear log (and all the associated traction and all that), and a boost curve that doesn't taper down for the already hot BAT...those alone ccould be a bunch of minute reasons you have to sort out before the car will make power there. It's tough to say whether it's real knock or not...but having a buddy listen while you pull might help. I'd leave the knock sensor on for tuning sake...we're also diagnosing here, and there's no bliss in not knowing. Again, your AFR or MAF sensor is not the culprit.
Also, it seems like you're likely looking for more oomph, esp down low...from your boost curve, it looks like yout TRL tables are not "tracing" you actual Load as closely as it should...that's likely one reason for the oscillation amount that you see. Otherwise it's a good start other than the knock near the top of the rpm range.
Again, I think your MAF curve is not your culprit, unless a) you're getting wonky LTFT @ WOT, b) you're getting wonky LTFT during part throttle. You are getting neither so Bluestreak's calibration is good in that it should alleviate the need to adjust your MAF for now.
Focus on boost and load.
If I can't work something out with Nextmod I'll give you a shout and try and see what your friend can do. I'm sure you can imagine how frustrated I am with that. I waited 5 weeks for this part to come in, got so excited when I picked it up, and then opened the box and it's like.....:loco :whoa :bang :flaming
yeh I figured the WOT calibration is pretty good unless you want to get real nitty gritty but then you're changing so many different sections and who knows where that'll go.
As far as calibration goes I'm talking about closed loop and part throttle. when I monitor LTFT's its showing -8. Also before I posted the log I deleted the non-WOT portion and that shows the LTFTs at -8 as well.
I think I need to calibrate the MAF for closed loop again.
I agree 100% with leaving the knock sensor on until I get to the bottom of the high end knock. One thing BlueStreak did point out was the knock was occuring after 5750 rpms. I printed out all 4 logs for better comparison. The knock really kicks into high gear around 6147 rpms on all the logs.
One thing I notice though is that the 1st log had the highest knock even though it had the lowest BATs. The 3rd log had BATs as high as 145 F with it around 138 - 140 F in the range of the knock, however, the knock wasn't as severe as the 1st log.
Shouldn't the 50 degree higher BATs encourage greater knock if the car was in fact knocking? In fact, the 3rd gear log with the highest BAts had lower knock detected than all the other 3 logs. any thoughts on that?
The car is definitely sluggish but it's a good start like you said. Need to learn more about load and how to incorporate it into the tune.
thanks
Fobio
09-29-2011, 12:40 AM
do you have a log from the virgin v200 map? does it knock on that?
let's put it this way...you wouldn't want to put your DP on if it's real knock.
there is something I can't figure out.
the MAF break points are 0 - 5.7, 5.7 - 18, 18 - 30, 30 - -77 and 77 - max correct?
so why in the closed loop tables do I see this:
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone A Breakpoint - 5.70 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone B Breakpoint - 18 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone C Breakpoint - 200 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone D Breakpoint - 200 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone E Breakpoint - 200 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone F Breakpoint - 200 g/s
will this not affect the closed loop MAF calibration that I did originally?
do you have a log from the virgin v200 map? does it knock on that?
let's put it this way...you wouldn't want to put your DP on if it's real knock.
the next person to mention the word downpipe gets a kick in the nuts!
Fobio
09-29-2011, 12:50 AM
there is something I can't figure out.
the MAF break points are 0 - 5.7, 5.7 - 18, 18 - 30, 30 - -77 and 77 - max correct?
so why in the closed loop tables do I see this:
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone A Breakpoint - 5.70 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone B Breakpoint - 18 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone C Breakpoint - 200 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone D Breakpoint - 200 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone E Breakpoint - 200 g/s
LTFT learning breakpoint Zone F Breakpoint - 200 g/s
will this not affect the closed loop MAF calibration that I did originally?
these values have a lot less meaning than they appear to have. I have left them on cars I've tuned, and have messed around with them on my own car. Not really necessary to worry about.
Having said that, I'd use them as reference when adjusting lower range MAF adjustments.
No I don't have a log of before I adjusted the V200 map. But I didn't do anything that drastic to it.
I'm trying to upload the map, but it just won't transfer to the MAC, even if I change it to .txt
Fobio
09-29-2011, 12:55 AM
No I don't have a log of before I adjusted the V200 map. But I didn't do anything that drastic to it.
I'm trying to upload the map, but it just won't transfer to the MAC, even if I change it to .txt
effing MAC...maybe that's your problem!
seriously, no....hehehe...
anyway...try to do a run with a virgin map. let's pin down this high rpm knock before moving on, rather than tuning around it.
I sent you an email with the map. Feel free to post it in this thread if you like.
I'm not using the MAC, I bought a new laptop specifically to run ATR. But recently it decided to not want to connect to my network so no internet on it for the last 2 days.
Fack_Dude
09-29-2011, 07:03 AM
downpipe????:huge smile
downpipe????:huge smile
I hate you...
Anyways, going on vacation over to Europe for 2 weeks, but will check the forum most nights. Printed out the help file for the new ATR and will have lots of time to read it at the airport and on the plane, on a train etc etc. Abilor's guide was useful but now that I think about it, it more tells you what to do but you really don't do any thinking for yourself, which makes it extremely difficult to diagnose problems. Don't get me wrong reading the guide is a great help, although now with newer version there's change.
anyway back to the basics and I'm in for a long technical read.
Fobio, like I said I sent you my map, but really not a whole lot has been changed from the original OTS version.
BlueStreak
09-29-2011, 02:18 PM
At the end of the day, the best teacher is just trying stuff out... incrementally... without blowing up your $h!+. Haha.
Your learning curve will increase exponentially.
Enjoy your vacation!
weather here in London is insane. 30 degrees in October...are you friggin' killing me?
quick check in for some feedback.
what are your thoughts on running catless downpipe? I know Cobb requires cat for Stage 2 but you can always start with a stage 1 map and work up to optimize the catless downpipe.
downsides:
- would require more tuning rather than starting with a Cobb OTS stage 2 map
- would smell like a lawnmower and will not pass ommisions (although have down ommisions for this year already so from this November I won't have to re-test for 2 years)
- it'll be pretty damn loud when combined with the Magnaflow CBE
so how bad will the car smell really, if it's not gonna be insane then at least I have 2 years of no testing to try and get away with it, but I don't want to be paranoid about being pulled (fast_dude not a F@cking word...) over based purely on how the car smells. for example driving through a ride progam: Officer "sir have you had anything to drink ton....what the **** is that smell? Sir step out your car..."
I need some opinions on what I'm going to do. Right now my wife wants to burn this downpipe, burn my speed3, and burn Nextmod....
Fack_Dude
10-02-2011, 06:14 PM
weather here in London is insane. 30 degrees in October...are you friggin' killing me?
quick check in for some feedback.
what are your thoughts on running catless downpipe? I know Cobb requires cat for Stage 2 but you can always start with a stage 1 map and work up to optimize the catless downpipe.
downsides:
- would require more tuning rather than starting with a Cobb OTS stage 2 map
- would smell like a lawnmower and will not pass ommisions (although have down ommisions for this year already so from this November I won't have to re-test for 2 years)
- it'll be pretty damn loud when combined with the Magnaflow CBE
so how bad will the car smell really, if it's not gonna be insane then at least I have 2 years of no testing to try and get away with it, but I don't want to be paranoid about being pulled (fast_dude not a F@cking word...) over based purely on how the car smells. for example driving through a ride progam: Officer "sir have you had anything to drink ton....what the **** is that smell? Sir step out your car..."
I need some opinions on what I'm going to do. Right now my wife wants to burn this downpipe, burn my speed3, and burn Nextmod....
Can't you send the facccking pipe back??? If you run it.....the car will smell like rotten eggs.....my two cents worth......
boyracer
10-02-2011, 06:35 PM
so how bad will the car smell really, if it's not gonna be insane then at least I have 2 years of no testing to try and get away with it, but I don't want to be paranoid about being pulled (fast_dude not a F@cking word...) over based purely on how the car smells. for example driving through a ride progam: Officer "sir have you had anything to drink ton....what the **** is that smell? Sir step out your car..."
I need some opinions on what I'm going to do. Right now my wife wants to burn this downpipe, burn my speed3, and burn Nextmod....
Loki, that's some funny shite.... I can see fast_dude struggling with his response.
Booostin
10-02-2011, 08:00 PM
Can't you send the facccking pipe back??? If you run it.....the car will smell like rotten eggs.....my two cents worth......
Yeah cant you send it back? When the 2 years passes and you have to do emissions its going to be a bitch pulling the pipe out again and installing a catted pipe. Another thing... not to be a turd but didnt you notice that when you bought the downpipe you were paying about half the amount of a catted downpipe? lol
Yeah cant you send it back? When the 2 years passes and you have to do emissions its going to be a bitch pulling the pipe out again and installing a catted pipe. Another thing... not to be a turd but didnt you notice that when you bought the downpipe you were paying about half the amount of a catted downpipe? lol
It's not half. It turns out to be around $125 - $150 more for the catted version.
Cp-e wasn't really clear on which one they were displaying the price for, and I didn't place the order so I did not see the part where it asks about cat options. Even one of the other sponsors didn't know which version they're selling on their site until they checked.
So yeh I screwed up by not taking the time to look into it further, however, at some point placing the order it would have to be determined which version you want, catted or catless. Catless clearly states "off-road use only" so I would say why default to that option, but regardless, why not just go back to the customer and just ask?
Booostin
10-02-2011, 08:39 PM
It's not half. It turns out to be around $125 - $150 more for the catted version.
Cp-e wasn't really clear on which one they were displaying the price for, and I didn't place the order so I did not see the part where it asks about cat options. Even one of the other sponsors didn't know which version they're selling on their site until they checked.
So yeh I screwed up by not taking the time to look into it further, however, at some point placing the order it would have to be determined which version you want, catted or catless. Catless clearly states "off-road use only" so I would say why default to that option, but regardless, why not just go back to the customer and just ask?
Shitty... are you going to run it then or not?
BlueStreak
10-02-2011, 11:26 PM
Buy a cat and have a shop weld it in.
Buy a cat and have a shop weld it in.
That's what I was thinking. I figure the shop that did the welding for you could do it. Question is where can I get an almost identical cat that cp-e uses? Although theirs might be generic. They do all kinda look the same.
BlueStreak
10-03-2011, 10:53 AM
CPe's cat isn't proprietary or downpipe specific. It just has to be the proper dimensions. Once you get the proper size, you're off to the races.
CPe's cat isn't proprietary or downpipe specific. It just has to be the proper dimensions. Once you get the proper size, you're off to the races.
good to hear a bit of positive news. now I just need to source one.
ps. that L2AIC is looking quite sexy
Fack_Dude
10-03-2011, 07:53 PM
good to hear a bit of positive news. now I just need to source one.
ps. that L2AIC is looking quite sexy
Try quick muffler or hotrod scotts.
Try quick muffler or hotrod scotts.
will look into that when I get back. thanks :)
BlueStreak
10-03-2011, 10:56 PM
:-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
loaded OTS Stage 1 + SF map with MAF calibration only. Gonna take some logs shortly and see if there's still knock at the upper end even tho the OTS map is pig rich.
will post logs when I get back.
Fack_Dude
10-13-2011, 09:42 PM
Be safe.
rzapata
10-13-2011, 09:44 PM
loaded OTS Stage 1 + SF map with MAF calibration only. Gonna take some logs shortly and see if there's still knock at the upper end even tho the OTS map is pig rich.
will post logs when I get back.
Can't wait to see the results. :) I hope the knocks are gone, good luck!
Can't wait to see the results. :) I hope the knocks are gone, good luck!
actually, funny enough I'm hoping the knock is still there because it would most likely mean that it's not real knock but just engine noise.
boyracer
10-13-2011, 10:38 PM
Be safe.
+1, & good luck
Fellas,
Did 3 3rd gear logs and one short 4th gear log.
The knock was still there at the high rpms except for the 2nd log for some reason where it was almost non-existent.
5937
5938
5939
5940
on a side note, I have to redo my maf calibration because it is now way off.
edit: again, reminder that everything was left stock except for changing the knock sensor limit to 6750 rpms.
Fobio
10-13-2011, 11:35 PM
Cool.
Your 4th gear log almost made it into the 6000+rpm to see. I assume traction control is off and it wasn't raining where you were like it is now?
It could be engine noise. But if say you go and turn off the knock sensor up top, it makes tuning up in that rpm range problematic. However, since you don't venture into that rpm range often, it becomes a case of compromise. Regardless, I'd hope that you can nail down the cause before moving forward.
So what I can conclude now is that:
1. Your high rpm knock is NOT likely caused by high boost and the resulting higher BAT's etc.
2. You're NOT knocking due to aggressive timing.
3. The knock is consistent in a particular rpm range that causes all sorts of ruckus under the engine bay.
You may want to diagnose this furtehr by examining the knock sensor to see if it's loose...along with your coil packs. I also saw a car's VVT sensor being hand-loose on the passenger side of the valve cover.
Tho unlikely, you may also have faulty injector seals.
Thanks for the feedback. Here are my comments/questions.
Cool.
Your 4th gear log almost made it into the 6000+rpm to see. (Ahhh I should have pushed it a bit longer...) I assume traction control is off and it wasn't raining where you were like it is now? (Traction control was off and the roads were bone dry)
It could be engine noise. But if say you go and turn off the knock sensor up top, it makes tuning up in that rpm range problematic.(Agreed) However, since you don't venture into that rpm range often, it becomes a case of compromise. Regardless, I'd hope that you can nail down the cause before moving forward.
So what I can conclude now is that:
1. Your high rpm knock is NOT likely caused by high boost and the resulting higher BAT's etc.
2. You're NOT knocking due to aggressive timing.
3. The knock is consistent in a particular rpm range that causes all sorts of ruckus under the engine bay. (it gets real nuts around 6100 rpms, but I don't hear anything from the engine)
You may want to diagnose this furtehr by examining the knock sensor to see if it's loose...along with your coil packs. I also saw a car's VVT sensor being hand loose on the passenger side of the valve cover. (where are all these located so I can check it out?)
Tho unlikely, you may also have faulty injector seals.
Fobio
10-13-2011, 11:45 PM
The coil packs are the black placticky things connected to the spark plugs....under your TMIC...the VVT sensor is a round metallic piece with a small black wire bundle juct in front of the oil cap.
The knock sensor is somewhere in the back of the engine, I believe. Dave will know better.
What kind of mounts are you running?
for sure Dave would know. He would have taken all that stuff apart at some point (and has to figure out how to put it all back together...)
The coil packs should be fine, since Dave did a compression test for me and removed and reinstated the spark plugs etc.
I'll have a look at the VVT sensor if I can find it, and I'll ask Dave to point me in the right direction to look for the knock sensor.
I'm running the RMM only, it's the cp-e 75 duro (you ordered it for me :D)
BlueStreak
10-14-2011, 11:25 AM
Did somebody say my name? :chuckle
The knock sensor is bolted to the block, below the injectors in between cylinders 2 and 3. See awesome freehand drawing.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6233/6243411435_8d3657aabb_b.jpg
Unfortunately, to get to it, you'll have to remove your intake manifold. If you're quick, that'll take you about an hour to do. If it's your first time, I'd at least double the time estimate. :bang
Vince may be onto something. You could try stretching the coils inside the coil packs. It could be a bad contact between the spark plug and the wire itself.
Thanks for the photo BlueStreak.
I'll have a look, but don't know if I'd try taking off the intake manifold..I'll try looking at the other stuff which means taking off the TMIC. I wish I had a nice warm garage to do this work in, that's what you get for living downtown right?! haha
Had to drive all the way to Stratford yesterday so filled up with a 3/4 tank of 94 octane to do some logs and see if that helped with the knock (which I'm hoping it doesn't) but as soon as I put the gas in, it rained for the next 10 hours.....so no logs.....and no more gas....
Fack_Dude
10-15-2011, 02:27 PM
Thanks for the photo BlueStreak.
I'll have a look, but don't know if I'd try taking off the intake manifold..I'll try looking at the other stuff which means taking off the TMIC. I wish I had a nice warm garage to do this work in, that's what you get for living downtown right?! haha
Had to drive all the way to Stratford yesterday so filled up with a 3/4 tank of 94 octane to do some logs and see if that helped with the knock (which I'm hoping it doesn't) but as soon as I put the gas in, it rained for the next 10 hours.....so no logs.....and no more gas....
Ill rent you my double car garage and I will include a 6" by 4" hole in the wall and a possom who lives in the rolled carpet up in the rafters. Ask Bluestreak he had a great evening working in it. :huge smile
Ill rent you my double car garage and I will include a 6" by 4" hole in the wall and a possom who lives in the rolled carpet up in the rafters. Ask Bluestreak he had a great evening working in it. :huge smile
have you bought his turbo yet? what are you waiting for?
Fack_Dude
10-15-2011, 05:30 PM
have you bought his turbo yet? what are you waiting for?
Im trading my car in at the end of the month. :thumbsup
Im trading my car in at the end of the month. :thumbsup
no you're not...
Fack_Dude
10-15-2011, 05:35 PM
Yup. I'm going with a 2012 wrx.
Yup. I'm going with a 2012 wrx.
so what are you going to do with all the parts on the car?
edit: let's continue this conversation through PM
Since I never got the chance to do any WOT logging with the Ultra 94 when I filled up last time, I went and filled up half tank with Ultra 94 last night to see what happens.
Was planning to hang out with BlueStreak today while he worked on his car, and I planned on seeing what was causing this knock.
So, on the way I just did a quick 3rd gear WOT run while on the dvp, very slight uphill. Car felt very sluggish and at the top of 3rd I was barely at 120kph.
here is that log:
5964
as you can see, pretty severe knock after around 6100 rpms.
Got to BlueStreak's place, took off the TMIC, took out the plugs, stretched the coil packs, changed the plugs to ITV22's (thanks Fast_dude), looked around for loose stuff, put everything back together.
On the way home, did one 3rd gear WOT run.
here is that log:
5965
now here you can see all the crazy knock at the top end is gone, and just some very minor knock showed up.....everything else seems to be almost spot on with respects to AFR and Boost targets. The Mass Airflow peaked at 280 g/s which is all due to the cp-e TMIC (colder weather helps too..).
So now I dunno...is the knock gone? was it real? At the end of the day did it all just come down to changing the stock plugs?
Tomorrow I will do a few WOT runs until I run out of Ultra 94, then go back to 91 octane and see if the results are the same, if the knock is in fact gone, then I'm gonna have to say the spark plugs did it. The car feels really good now, not having the car pull so much timing at the top end makes such a big difference ( actually the car feels the same as when I had the knock sensor turned off at 5700 rpm :P)
thoughts?
EDIT: on second thoughts, no the car isn't hitting boost targets and I think its correcting for load. Will look into that once I can confirm that this knock shite is done.
BlueStreak
10-23-2011, 10:47 PM
Glad to see your (rasclat) KR is fixed.
Were you able to repeat the .35* blips in multiple logs? It may be coincidental.
Glad to see your (rasclat) KR is fixed.
Were you able to repeat the .35* blips in multiple logs? It may be coincidental.
Didn't get a chance to do any logging today, but will go out tomorrow for a few runs.
ok. went out and did a whole bunch of logs and the results were interesting/dissapointing....
firstly, I have switched back to 91 Octane. Filled up at Petrocanada in Hamilton (don't ask...)
Did three 3rd gear logs. There was no real knock in the first log, but then when I looked at the boost, it barely made 15 psi. Not sure why. The other two logs it was close to boost target, though not quite, but the KR showed its ugly face again.
here are those three logs:
5967
5968
5969
After the 3rd gear logs, I did two 4th gear logs. Didn't pull all the way from 2500 but instead managed to start in the higher 3's, and didn't quite get to redline, because well, stuff got in the way.
here are those logs:
5970
5971
as you can see there was no knock in the first pull, but didn't really get into that 6100 rpm + area where my KR started. In the second log, however, it started....:bang
So now I'm not sure if the one log I did 2 days ago with the new plugs and the 94 octane where there was only minor KR in the upper RPM was just pure luck, and still not sure if the car is in fact knocking.
BlueStreak
10-25-2011, 10:19 AM
Ah hell.
A few things you can try:
- Go back to 94 and beat the living snot out of the car to see if it knocks.
- Try a colder plug or a fresh set of ITV22s. Those could be done.
- Pull timing to the point that the ECU only commands 7* up top to see what happens.
- Get meth. At this point though, it would be a bandaid since the car should not be pulling timing at that boost/BAT/ignition advance level.
horto
10-25-2011, 10:38 AM
dude, welcome to my life...
Fobio
10-25-2011, 11:08 AM
dude, welcome to my life...
or the life you've given up?...lol...
Update:
Some jackass hit my car while it was parked on the street in front my house yesterday, and drove off.
Will post pics later...
The struggle continues....
Mr Wilson
10-25-2011, 12:29 PM
^^^Sux ballz. Hopefully minor.
Booostin
10-25-2011, 12:32 PM
Update:
Some jackass hit my car while it was parked on the street in front my house yesterday, and drove off.
Will post pics later...
The struggle continues....
Moral of the story is dont park on the street :P
Fack_Dude
10-25-2011, 12:33 PM
Faaaccckkk. Pm me if you need a good body shop.
BlueStreak
10-25-2011, 12:44 PM
EFFING HELL! DAMNIT!
*punches nearby wall*
optiklenz13
10-25-2011, 12:53 PM
That suxors!!! Hope it's not major.
Fack_Dude
10-25-2011, 12:57 PM
Moral of the story is dont park on the street :P
That's the problem when you live downtown!
horto
10-25-2011, 12:58 PM
or the life you've given up?...lol...
I've seen the light :)
Edit: Loki, sorry to hear about your car man... that seriously sucks
They scraped the front left bumper, damaged the front left quarter panel at the wheel arch, and scrateched the front left rim.
Mr Wilson
10-25-2011, 02:46 PM
Neighbour backing out from a driveway?
Neighbour backing out from a driveway?
I will check their cars.
They would have noticed. It was a solid impact, alarm went off and starter was disabled
fywdyl
10-25-2011, 04:32 PM
Insurance will take care of that if you choose to go that route, but I think it has to be reported within 24 hrs...
Moral of the story is dont park on the street :P
No, that's not the moral of the story. Try again.
Faaaccckkk. Pm me if you need a good body shop.
Co-worker has a friend who works for a body shop. He described the damage to him and he said sounds around $500. I'm hoping that's the case. Everything in this ****ing city is so expensive, so you never know.
I've seen the light :)
Edit: Loki, sorry to hear about your car man... that seriously sucks
Glad you're getting your knock worries sorted out. :)
Insurance will take care of that if you choose to go that route, but I think it has to be reported within 24 hrs...
I don't think it's enough damage that it's worth going through the insurance company. Most likely will be under $1000. Even though my deductable is $300, I don't really want to bring them into it.
I am just pissed off that someone is that cowardly to just drive off.
Fobio
10-25-2011, 05:44 PM
Insurance will take care of that if you choose to go that route, but I think it has to be reported within 24 hrs...
Loki...apparently, your FMIC is now paid for?...lol...j/k...
Loki...apparently, your FMIC is now paid for?...lol...j/k...
haha I just get a friggin' break.
breakfasteatre
10-25-2011, 07:13 PM
chris. nooooooooo. dude i feel for you. just renewed insurance and it went up 200 for.the year because of an accident i was in in which it wasnt my fault but was deemed 50 50. i feel ya brothaaaa
boyracer
10-25-2011, 07:27 PM
SON OF A BITC....... sorry to hear that loki. That f'in sucks. One of my biggest fear's is something happening to my speed. I feel for you man. It's not much, but when we go for burgers it will be my treat.
SON OF A BITC....... sorry to hear that loki. That f'in sucks. One of my biggest fear's is something happening to my speed. I feel for you man. It's not much, but when we go for burgers it will be my treat.
hahaha. mmmm burgers. sounds good!
ok guys. the car is not written off or anything, just I don't need this shit right now.
Plus at the end of the day, it's my car. Don't want anyone hittin' that shit. Plus what's the point in saving money in group buys and all that shit if you just have to spend it to fix your car when you didn't do anything. lol
here's a pic.
5978
Mr Wilson
10-25-2011, 09:03 PM
Nator meeting time, I got a black sharpie.
boyracer
10-25-2011, 09:11 PM
I'm sad just looking at that pic! Totally agree with you, don't want anyone touching my car... That just makes me :flaming
rzapata
10-25-2011, 10:18 PM
ok guys. the car is not written off or anything, just I don't need this shit right now.
Plus at the end of the day, it's my car. Don't want anyone hittin' that shit. Plus what's the point in saving money in group buys and all that shit if you just have to spend it to fix your car when you didn't do anything. lol
here's a pic.
5978
We got to hunt down the person who did this blasphemy!!! :flaming How much will it cost to get it repaired? So sorry to hear this happened man...
We got to hunt down the person who did this blasphemy!!! :flaming How much will it cost to get it repaired? So sorry to hear this happened man...
Dunno cost as yet.
Walked around the neighbourhood and didn't see any cars with damage. Plus I'd like to think I live in a decent enough neighbourhood that they wouldn't do that.
It must have been someone passing through. We will never know.
Fack_Dude
10-25-2011, 10:44 PM
We live downtown bro..... You can't trust anyone.....Some ******* keyed my caddilac from front to back last summer and that shit cost 1500.00....
We live downtown bro..... You can't trust anyone.....Some ******* keyed my caddilac from front to back last summer and that shit cost 1500.00....
haha bastards
side note: been looking at BNR turbos, but don't think anything will come out of it. just lookin'....
Fack_Dude
10-25-2011, 10:56 PM
you know you want one stage 3???
you know you want one stage 3???
yeh I do.
Fack_Dude
10-25-2011, 11:13 PM
they are sure nice.......lol
BlueStreak
10-25-2011, 11:28 PM
I have an extra turbo you can buy for the core :-)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have questions regarding load/boost but I assume those will get answered tomorrow at the seminar, so I'm excited.
I do have a question regarding knock. How does the knock restard work? Knowing that the knock at the upper end of my logs consistently starts around 6100 rpm, when the knock begins, the ECU pulls timing and dumps fuel to try and stop the knock. In my case, the knock progressively gets worse.
So is it compounded? meaning, say you have 1 degree of KR, but adding fuel and pulling timing doesn't do anything, the ECU will continue to dump fuel and pull timing until the knock goes away right?
So say my knock is actually engine noise, if it registers at 1 degree KR, obviously, dumping fuel and pulling timing will not stop the noise, so could that be why it's compounding?
edit: what I'm getting at is, say its just engine noise which registers around 1 or 2 KR, if I reduce the sensitivety of the knock sensor by 1 or 2 degrees, it may solve the problem if it's engine noise, and prevent the ECU from compounding the KR.
Fobio
10-26-2011, 11:38 PM
I have questions regarding load/boost but I assume those will get answered tomorrow at the seminar, so I'm excited.
I do have a question regarding knock. How does the knock restard work? Knowing that the knock at the upper end of my logs consistently starts around 6100 rpm, when the knock begins, the ECU pulls timing and dumps fuel to try and stop the knock. In my case, the knock progressively gets worse.
So is it compounded? meaning, say you have 1 degree of KR, but adding fuel and pulling timing doesn't do anything, the ECU will continue to dump fuel and pull timing until the knock goes away right?
So say my knock is actually engine noise, if it registers at 1 degree KR, obviously, dumping fuel and pulling timing will not stop the noise, so could that be why it's compounding?
edit: what I'm getting at is, say its just engine noise which registers around 1 or 2 KR, if I reduce the sensitivety of the knock sensor by 1 or 2 degrees, it may solve the problem if it's engine noise, and prevent the ECU from compounding the KR.
I find it hard to disagree with your own diagnosis and logic. It's just that engine noise, tho something we all suffer from, rarely reaches the severity and stubbornness that you have observed. Having said that, your 4th gear logs do look better. You really should, for the diagnosis alone, make it out to cayuga to do some 4th gear pulls on a track, if you prefer...before it snows...
Anyway, we always talk about boost/load...lol...that's all there's ever to talk about really...
BlueStreak
10-27-2011, 10:27 AM
The ECU applies KR based on what it is seeing in the moment. It doesn't look at a previous knock event and pull more timing if the engine is still knocking. It'll pull more timing if it needs to pull more timing based on feedback from the knock sensor.
In other words, it doesn't compound knock. The ECU has the memory of a gold fish in that regard :P
I'm still hooked on the fact that fast_dude's plugs silenced your motor even for the briefest of moments. Do you know how old the plugs are? That may be your issue. Neil will be talking about plugs today and will shed some light on what happens when plugs start to throw in the towel.
The ECU applies KR based on what it is seeing in the moment. It doesn't look at a previous knock event and pull more timing if the engine is still knocking. It'll pull more timing if it needs to pull more timing based on feedback from the knock sensor.
In other words, it doesn't compound knock. The ECU has the memory of a gold fish in that regard :P
I'm still hooked on the fact that fast_dude's plugs silenced your motor even for the briefest of moments. Do you know how old the plugs are? That may be your issue. Neil will be talking about plugs today and will shed some light on what happens when plugs start to throw in the towel.
I hate gold fish. I hate my ECU?
I think fast_dude mentioned that the plugs have about 10,000 kms on them.
lots to talk about tonight!
edit: I also read that Cobb document that Fobio shared, and it mentioned that the recommended gapping be 0.026 - 0.028. Remember the ones we put in were gapped at 0.030. Dunno if that makes a difference, but something to ask Neil tonight as well.
Also, you can check out the nice shiner on the front left of my car. FAAAKKKKK!!!
Fack_Dude
10-27-2011, 10:48 AM
The plugs have about 8000 km on them and if you gap them to a .28 you would probably get blow by. If you wanna try a fresh pair of 24's I got a pair in the garage I believe. I will search for them once I'm finished meeting with the building inspector.
The plugs have about 8000 km on them and if you gap them to a .28 you would probably get blow by. If you wanna try a fresh pair of 24's I got a pair in the garage I believe. I will search for them once I'm finished meeting with the building inspector.
thanks man.
I thought "blow-out" occurs the larger the gap? i.e the longer distance the spark has to travel to arc.
Fobio
10-27-2011, 11:00 AM
thanks man.
I thought blow-by occurs the larger the gap? i.e the longer distance the spark has to travel to arc.
*Blow-out
BlueStreak
10-27-2011, 11:06 AM
^^^ this.
If you got mad blow-by, it's time for a new engine :chuckle
^^^ this.
If you got mad blow-by, it's time for a new engine :chuckle
:P
As I've mentioned before, I've noticed that my fuel economy really went to shit once I switched over to the V200 map.
Cobb set the max load before switching to open loop to 1.0. I always believed that the car was going into open loop too easily, as my car hits 1.0 load very quickly in everyday driving situations, so I monitored calculated load one day and confirmed this.
I have since switched max load from 2500rpm and beyond to 1.13, and below 2500rpm its set at 1.10. My fuel economy has gone back to what it used to be, and I'll be monitoring it to see if it stays that way.
I also adjusted my throttle tables and changed the APP translation tables to a direct 1:1 ratio, and I like the way the car feels. Very stiff pedal now and I feel like I can feel the car alot better.
Edit: wife took the car out tonight and came back and told me she likes the way it drives now compared to before. So got wife approval! Nice.
horto
11-07-2011, 10:59 AM
As I've mentioned before, I've noticed that my fuel economy really went to shit once I switched over to the V200 map.
Cobb set the max load before switching to open loop to 1.0. I always believed that the car was going into open loop too easily, as my car hits 1.0 load very quickly in everyday driving situations, so I monitored calculated load one day and confirmed this.
I have since switched max load from 2500rpm and beyond to 1.13, and below 2500rpm its set at 1.10. My fuel economy has gone back to what it used to be, and I'll be monitoring it to see if it stays that way.
my fuel economy is total shit on v200 too... this is very good info. curious to know if you find any downsides as you log further... e.g. time to hit target AFRs as you mash WOT
Fack_Dude
11-07-2011, 11:04 AM
Nooooooooo you let the wife drive the car!!!!!!!!!!! :bang
Nooooooooo you let the wife drive the car!!!!!!!!!!! :bang
my wife probably drives my speed more than you drive your speed. She's good like that!
my fuel economy is total shit on v200 too... this is very good info. curious to know if you find any downsides as you log further... e.g. time to hit target AFRs as you mash WOT
To be honest, when I was running the V108 maps, I had the max load to exit closed loop set at 1.25 as per Abilor's guide and didn't seem to have any problems then.
BlueStreak
11-07-2011, 08:38 PM
Wife approval = win.
Fix the shiner on your car yet?
Fobio
11-07-2011, 08:43 PM
my fuel economy is total shit on v200 too... this is very good info. curious to know if you find any downsides as you log further... e.g. time to hit target AFRs as you mash WOT
my wife probably drives my speed more than you drive your speed. She's good like that!
To be honest, when I was running the V108 maps, I had the max load to exit closed loop set at 1.25 as per Abilor's guide and didn't seem to have any problems then.
Is it possible that your car is running better and thus you're pushing it more? I have not heard anything from the relatively larger user group on MSF reflecting this.
slightly richer afr's aside, from my experience, the only reason you get worst fuel economy is from flashing maps and pinning the throttle...
Fix the shiner on your car yet?
no....:(
Is it possible that your car is running better and thus you're pushing it more? I have not heard anything from the relatively larger user group on MSF reflecting this.
slightly richer afr's aside, from my experience, the only reason you get worst fuel economy is from flashing maps and pinning the throttle...
I thought so too, but I haven't been driving it hard, and I even tried babying it on the throttle and still it wasn't just guzzling. Obviously the more you mod, your fuel economy will take a hit, but I hadn't done anything except change the map version.
As far as MSF goes, I figure alot of those guys have pretty heavy mods anyway and their fuel economy has gone to shit anyway?!? It's hard to tell. It's just something that I noticed, and a bunch of the other guys (horto and mr wilson) also have noticed a difference once the v200 map was flashed.
Fobio
11-07-2011, 09:02 PM
no....:(
I thought so too, but I haven't been driving it hard, and I even tried babying it on the throttle and still it wasn't just guzzling. Obviously the more you mod, your fuel economy will take a hit, but I hadn't done anything except change the map version.
As far as MSF goes, I figure alot of those guys have pretty heavy mods anyway and their fuel economy has gone to shit anyway?!? It's hard to tell. It's just something that I noticed, and a bunch of the other guys (horto and mr wilson) also have noticed a difference once the v200 map was flashed.
I can not dispute your personal user experience of course and I'm interested in your observations. Let's discuss.
The 1.00 load commanded by the OTS maps are not linear across the range, first of all, so if you leave the OTS values, notice that some of them venture away from 1.00. Having said that, the amount of real time in tenths or hundreths of seconds it takes to go from 1.00 to 1.10 or even 1.25 is very little. And comparing that between 1.00 and 1.25, the only difference should only be felt through driveability...and not necessarily long term fuel economy, unless your digital toe can keep 1.1x+ load consistently...lol...which leads to the observation it's just you stepping in deeper into the throttle.
Which brings up another possible difference is in your throttle mapping. If you've made your throttle more agressive, you may still be judging your fuel use by how deep you're into the gas, but that depth now may equate more throttle?
My point is that I did not notice that the v200 maps had significant changes in the tables that may affect long term fuel economy. This is of course, espcielly true, if you kept all your MAF and fueling tables from before switching over.
I only made this observation because I do alot of highway driving for my job, which means not much chance to gun it when going on long 300-400km round trips.
Tomorrow I'll be driving to Stratford so will see how that goes. I only base fuel economy by how many kms I get per a given amount of fuel. Given the long trips I make, it's a pretty consistent way of monitoring how the car is functioning with respect to fuel economy under light loads.
which tables were you referring to in the OTS map? It'll be easier to follow what you're saying with ATR open.
Fobio
11-07-2011, 09:19 PM
I only made this observation because I do alot of highway driving for my job, which means not much chance to gun it when going on long 300-400km round trips.
Tomorrow I'll be driving to Stratford so will see how that goes. I only base fuel economy by how many kms I get per a given amount of fuel. Given the long trips I make, it's a pretty consistent way of monitoring how the car is functioning with respect to fuel economy under light loads.
which tables were you referring to in the OTS map? It'll be easier to follow what you're saying with ATR open.
The only tables I'd say that affects fuel economy most would be a calibrated MAF...all the fueling/AFR tables...the throttle tables...
The othe thing is...eventho Cobb commands 1.00 load for OL, it doesn't go into the 11's right at 1.00...it think the OTS map I saw still didn't get into the 11's until like 1.78 load.
The only tables I'd say that affects fuel economy most would be a calibrated MAF...all the fueling/AFR tables...the throttle tables...
The othe thing is...eventho Cobb commands 1.00 load for OL, it doesn't go into the 11's right at 1.00...it think the OTS map I saw still didn't get into the 11's until like 1.78 load.
Before I adjusted the tables, I monitored the AFR's and mine went into the 11's very easily. Though I haven't checked the AFR's now to see if there's any change, and you can only see one variable at a time. So no clue what the load is at the same time....
my LTFT's are all over the place (-10%) and have been since we cleaned my MAF. I will have to do some MAF calibration logs tomorrow on my way to work.
Fobio
11-07-2011, 09:32 PM
"-10% LTFT" means the car is putting in 10% more fuel than it needs, and it's PULLING 10% out. That might be it.
"-10% LTFT" means the car is putting in 10% more fuel than it needs, and it's PULLING 10% out. That might be it.
well we'll see what happens when I calibrate the MAF tomorrow.
While we're having a discussion, if I try to run through the gears (to redline), 1st , 2nd, 3rd the car will pull back hard . Any thoughts?
Fobio
11-07-2011, 09:40 PM
well we'll see what happens when I calibrate the MAF tomorrow.
While we're having a discussion, if I try to run through the gears (to redline), 1st , 2nd, 3rd the car will pull back hard . Any thoughts?
what kind of pulling back are you referring to?
I think you need me to drive your car for good measure...and no, I don't men that in a naughty way...hahaha...
what kind of pulling back are you referring to?
I think you need me to drive your car for good measure...and no, I don't men that in a naughty way...hahaha...
I think thats a good idea
side note: koni yellows have been ordered! :superman
BlueStreak
11-09-2011, 01:09 PM
That'll definitely improve handling. Awesome.
That'll definitely improve handling. Awesome.
that's what I'm hoping for.
ordered Tuesday night and should be arriving either tomorrow or Friday
BlueStreak
11-09-2011, 10:41 PM
From Nextmod? That must be a record for them.
EDIT: Ugh. Spelling/Grammar. Must start proof reading...
From Nextmod? That's must be a record for them.
Hahaha no definitely not nextmod
Hahaha no definitely not nextmod
koni's are in and have been collected.
thanks Alphamotorsports!
now to bug Jimmy to get him to put them in.....
edit: Stage 2 meth kit priced out and ready to be ordered for spring. sigh.....
fywdyl
11-11-2011, 08:41 AM
koni's are in and have been collected.
thanks Alphamotorsports!
now to bug Jimmy to get him to put them in.....
edit: Stage 2 meth kit priced out and ready to be ordered for spring. sigh.....
GB meth kit??!?!?! If so I'm down!
GB meth kit??!?!?! If so I'm down!
you know me...it can be arranged!!
hahaha
but not just yet...my wallet needs a break. and my wie needs to get distracted cuz right now she's focussed on all my mod spending. =)
fywdyl
11-11-2011, 09:42 AM
you know me...it can be arranged!!
hahaha
but not just yet...my wallet needs a break. and my wie needs to get distracted cuz right now she's focussed on all my mod spending. =)
We've got all winter to recoup and distract.
We've got all winter to recoup and distract.
sent you a PM
last 2 full tanks have both yeilded over 530 kms.
Another thing was that my trip computer always was at 8.7 L/100 which I know is not accurate since it's more like 10, however, since flashing the V200 map, the trip computer would not read below 9.5 and would even get over 10, which was equating to about 13-14 L/100 fuel economy.
Since the few changes I made, trip computer is back down to 8.5 or so....majic? I don't know....
Fobio, I'm only going based on observations of course, but it's hard facts that the fuel economy has improved. what isn't hard facts is that it is a direct result of what I did, and it could all just be pure coincidence.
I do of course, always enjoy our "discussions" =)
I will continue to monitor, and we still have to meet up so you can take her for a spin.
Fobio
11-11-2011, 12:59 PM
what kind of changes have you made?
what kind of changes have you made?
lol just the one change I mentioned before regarding the closed loop tables.
and the APP translation tables
Fobio
11-11-2011, 01:09 PM
1.25 load to OL and straight-line/linear throttling?
1.13 Load to open loop, and straight linear throttle.
I really like the throttle like that. alot easier to move off, especially after bumping idle to 900 rpm.
Fobio
11-11-2011, 01:29 PM
ah...ok...
first of all, the cars Itune, I rarely leave them with the OTS 1.00 CL/OL exit. second of all, I usually adjust the trottle from the very first go. so it's likely I have never made any direct observation on a base OTS map.
Horto: this is not the same as you're seeing, your AFR's have to be richened to be appropriate.
catless cp-e downpipe has been sent back to be exchanged for a catted version
=)
Fack_Dude
11-12-2011, 11:16 AM
catless cp-e downpipe has been sent back to be exchanged for a catted version
=)
Holy faccckk. It's about time. Lol
Holy faccckk. It's about time. Lol
Its kinda my fault it took so long.
But I'm happy nonetheless
Catted cp-e downpipe has been picked up!
Jimmy will be installing it, along with the koni's next week Saturday!
:huge smile
BlueStreak
11-17-2011, 09:51 PM
Ssssoooooo long from now. NATOR it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ssssoooooo long from now. NATOR it!
it's sooo long from now is right! FAK!
1. I'm not exactly sure how to connect the downpipe to the magnaflow CBE
2. I have no idea how to install the DP
3. I have no where to install the dp and it's cold as ass!
suggestions?
edit: I'm going to be in the Richmond Hill area on Sunday afternoon collecting winter wheels =)
boyracer
11-17-2011, 10:09 PM
Catted cp-e downpipe has been picked up!
Jimmy will be installing it, along with the koni's next week Saturday!
:huge smile
SWEET!!!
Ssssoooooo long from now. NATOR it!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That is a long time to wait!!!
BlueStreak
11-17-2011, 10:23 PM
it's sooo long from now is right! FAK!
1. I'm not exactly sure how to connect the downpipe to the magnaflow CBE
2. I have no idea how to install the DP
3. I have no where to install the dp and it's cold as ass!
suggestions?
edit: I'm going to be in the Richmond Hill area on Sunday afternoon collecting winter wheels =)
1. NATOR is all about getting it done whether ghetto or proper :P
2. See above.
3. See above x2
I can't do this weekend. Saturday is a chill session with my highschool friends for the latter part of the day and Sunday is celebrating my girlfriend graduating physio. Meet up at NATOR HQ? (breakfastheathre *cough*) I can swing by to bring coffee and provide assistance through yelling for a bit.
fywdyl
11-18-2011, 11:08 AM
I don't mind offering my place up for the install (Markham). I have a jack and jack stands and some standard tools.
I won't be able to do this weekend either, but next weekend I'm fine, you'll just have to let me know.
I don't mind offering my place up for the install (Markham). I have a jack and jack stands and some standard tools.
I won't be able to do this weekend either, but next weekend I'm fine, you'll just have to let me know.
I think I'll let Jimmy NATOR this one :chuckle
thanks for the offer guys!
breakfasteatre
11-18-2011, 02:59 PM
chris, brother, im here to help and save you money. Dave helped me get the studs in while i held the dp but for the most part i did it myself, and i didnt really read any of the how tos before hand. Just had them on my phone to reference. Lets doooo thisssssss. might have to have an exhaust shop cut the end off and put one on that will connect up to the magnaflow
chris, brother, im here to help and save you money. Dave helped me get the studs in while i held the dp but for the most part i did it myself, and i didnt really read any of the how tos before hand. Just had them on my phone to reference. Lets doooo thisssssss. might have to have an exhaust shop cut the end off and put one on that will connect up to the magnaflow
I know we're both celebrating our bday's tomorrow night, but would you be up for this on sunday afternoon, say around 2 30 - 3? I have to come up to Richmond Hill to pick up snow tires/wheels.
ok NATOR cp-e downpipe install it is!!!
spectators are welcome and encouraged.
AlphaMotorsports.ca
11-18-2011, 04:42 PM
While you're at it.. install the Konis too!
Stage 2 bitches!!!
flashed a modded Stage 2 + SF + TIH + IC 91 V210 tune. I think I missed one of the throttle tables, the neutral table since the throttle has a bunch of play again with clutch in. Gotta really give it gas to move off. Don't like it. will have to check when I get home. I got so used to the 1:1 throttle, hopefully that's the problem.
Car sounds like an animal tho.
While you're at it.. install the Konis too!
gonna leave the Konis to Jimmy to put in, =)
horto
11-21-2011, 10:58 AM
Stage 2 bitches!!!
Car sounds like an animal tho.
DP ftw!
rzapata
11-21-2011, 11:03 AM
Stage 2 bitches!!!
flashed a modded Stage 2 + SF + TIH + IC 91 V210 tune. I think I missed one of the throttle tables, the neutral table since the throttle has a bunch of play again with clutch in. Gotta really give it gas to move off. Don't like it. will have to check when I get home. I got so used to the 1:1 throttle, hopefully that's the problem.
Car sounds like an animal tho.
gonna leave the Konis to Jimmy to put in, =)
Awesome stuff Chris! :thumbsup Post them logs up! :chuckle
as I suspected, I forgot to change the APP Translation - 0 Neutral table to 1:1 throttle ratio
I like it like this, as I find it alot easier to move off with a responsive throttle.
Fobio
11-21-2011, 06:41 PM
as I suspected, I forgot to change the APP Translation - 0 Neutral table to 1:1 throttle ratio
I like it like this, as I find it alot easier to move off with a responsive throttle.
This intrigues me more into seeing how you car drives...you really know how to lead a fella on...hahaha...
My understanding is that some others felt that it bogged them more. Having said that, the 1:1 I did see was for a MS6....and that it's pretty cool that we can tailor our throttle to our personal preference.
This intrigues me more into seeing how you car drives...you really know how to lead a fella on...hahaha...
My understanding is that some others felt that it bogged them more. Having said that, the 1:1 I did see was for a MS6....and that it's pretty cool that we can tailor our throttle to our personal preference.
it's all about personal preference which is what makes this so much fun.
what exactly do you mean when you say "bogged" ?
Fobio
11-21-2011, 06:56 PM
it's all about personal preference which is what makes this so much fun.
what exactly do you mean when you say "bogged" ?
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?58625-MS3-Cobb-Ap-amp-ATR-Get-Big-Updates-Nov-17-2011&p=852620&viewfull=1#post852620
yeh I was reading that earlier.
mine is the complete opposite, car is very responsive and is just itching to move off.
adjusted the tables and going out for a quick spin to see if that solved the problem.
car feels so much better now
BlueStreak
11-21-2011, 08:43 PM
I reverted back to the OTS mapping on my throttle and I can drive the car again.
/end threadjack
the car turns on the afterburners at 3K RPMs and rockets forward like it wants to kill me.
sounds like a good time to me. :superman
had a great run-in with metro's finest. guns ready to be drawn and shit.
full TBE and tow-plate FTMW!!
you can ask me all about it at the next speed meet.....
Mr Wilson
12-22-2011, 08:39 AM
Who knows when that will be, type it out!
Fobio
12-22-2011, 11:20 PM
Who knows when that will be, type it out!
I think loki should start a FB group for this kinda shit [to keep it amongst friends]...hahaha...
pls send invite.
boyracer
12-23-2011, 05:18 AM
had a great run-in with metro's finest. guns ready to be drawn and shit.
full TBE and tow-plate FTMW!!
you can ask me all about it at the next speed meet.....
Loki, WTF went down?
horto
12-23-2011, 01:54 PM
probably a 4th gear log. through a speed trap.
add me to the fb group lol
Fobio
12-23-2011, 02:10 PM
probably a 4th gear log. through a speed trap.
add me to the fb group lol
Officer: "I've been waiting for you all day, Chris..."
Loki: "...and I got here as fast as I can..."
lol
no 4th gear log through a speed trap.
cole's notes version:
- exited Gardiner at Jameson to get onto Landsdowne
- Waited at Jameson for 3 lights to turn right, got impatient
- Finally make the right onto Queen, then the quick left onto Landsdowne - with "enthusiasm"
- Cop car is 3rd car back from the lights, with his window rolled down - it was -14 windchill that day, WTF, who has their windows down in that cold. oh yeh...cops
- I slow right down after I make the turn....too late. they're already making a 3 point turn....
- I make the first right off of Landsdowne because I'm trying to get to Long and McQuade at Bloor and Ossington
- They now think I'm trying to get away....they think the car is stolen
- Now they chase me, box me in, jump out of the car with hands on guns yelling "show me your hands!!!"
- then "get out the car, and put your hands on the roof"
- search me, search me, search me - yelling "are you crazy? why you driving like that?" "is this car stolen?" "is your licence suspended?"
- Me standing there getting searched all confused...
- I get back in my car, they go check up on me on their database
- cops finally calm down...they want to issue reckless driving ticket - "I could give you reckless driving ticket which is $300 fine and 6 points"
- instead, I get an unnecessary noise ticket, and they go about their business
in the end, I was glad they didnt' inspect my car. He told me what made him go after me, was because he couldn't see the front licence plate (tow-plate FTW) he thought the car was stolen....
I love Christmas shopping....hahaha
Fack_Dude
12-23-2011, 02:50 PM
lol
no 4th gear log through a speed trap.
cole's notes version:
- exited Gardiner at Jameson to get onto Landsdowne
- Waited at Jameson for 3 lights to turn right, got impatient
- Finally make the right onto Queen, then the quick left onto Landsdowne - with "enthusiasm"
- Cop car is 3rd car back from the lights, with his window rolled down - it was -14 windchill that day, WTF, who has their windows down in that cold. oh yeh...cops
- I slow right down after I make the turn....too late. they're already making a 3 point turn....
- I make the first right off of Landsdowne because I'm trying to get to Long and McQuade at Bloor and Ossington
- They now think I'm trying to get away....they think the car is stolen
- Now they chase me, box me in, jump out of the car with hands on guns yelling "show me your hands!!!"
- then "get out the car, and put your hands on the roof"
- search me, search me, search me - yelling "are you crazy? why you driving like that?" "is this car stolen?" "is your licence suspended?"
- Me standing there getting searched all confused...
- I get back in my car, they go check up on me on their database
- cops finally calm down...they want to issue reckless driving ticket - "I could give you reckless driving ticket which is $300 fine and 6 points"
- instead, I get an unnecessary noise ticket, and they go about their business
in the end, I was glad they didnt' inspect my car. He told me what made him go after me, was because he couldn't see the front licence plate (tow-plate FTW) he thought the car was stolen....
I love Christmas shopping....hahaha
Cops 1 and TM3 members with tow plate 0........who's next up to bat........lol......let the games begin......... :)
horto
12-23-2011, 02:54 PM
Cops 1 and TM3 members with tow plate 0........who's next up to bat........lol......let the games begin......... :)
I was already pulled over for my rho plate but don't have a getaway driver story to go along with it! (cop let me go without issue)
Cops 1 and TM3 members with tow plate 0........who's next up to bat........lol......let the games begin......... :)
:headbang
horto
12-23-2011, 02:57 PM
- search me, search me, search me - yelling "are you crazy? why you driving like that?" "is this car stolen?" "is your licence suspended?"
Because race car, officer.
Mr Wilson
12-23-2011, 03:12 PM
Yay my Christmas wish came true..........not you getting pulled over....but the story.
Edit: horto hahaha
BlueStreak
12-23-2011, 04:09 PM
Chris is the most badass TM3 member now.
You should be wearing a diamond encrusted "C" attached to a big chain, pants hiked halfway down your ass, flipping gang signs as you pimp walk to TM3 meets.
Did they grab your junk?
Because race car, officer.
thought about saying that but they looked like they had fresh 9V's in the tasers, so.....pass
Yay my Christmas wish came true..........not you getting pulled over....but the story.
I'm just glad I can entertain you, as per usual..
Chris is the most badass TM3 member now.
You should be wearing a diamond encrusted "C" attached to a big chain, pants hiked halfway down your ass, flipping gang signs as you pimp walk to TM3 meets.
Did they grab your junk?
I have diamond encrusted "C" and chain on order. Shipping UPS though, so they're probably lost with all the cp-e stuff....
Gang signs? I live on the Danforth...I'm so hood.
I don't think they grabbed my junk? I would have noticed....then again....maybe not.
when the officer asked. "were you trying to get away from us?"
all I wanted to say was, "buddy if I was, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now...."
I passed on that one too.
BlueStreak
12-23-2011, 06:36 PM
Until you hit KR in the upper RPMs, let off and get caught. Haha.
Until you hit KR in the upper RPMs, let off and get caught. Haha.
Bastard
Side note, I think my plugs may be failing. Car is stutturing a bit now, dropped down from 6th to 4th on the highway the other night, and I had no power. Just backfiring and stutturing...
It does it often as well if I move off hard in first gear
boyracer
12-23-2011, 09:29 PM
Yay my Christmas wish came true..........not you getting pulled over....but the story.
Edit: horto hahaha
LOL, Ahhh... Mr Wilson... LOL, Still want to hear this story first hand from loki.. (can't stop laughing) When is our next Tim Horton's meet? Cause this sounds like a great coffee story.
breakfasteatre
12-24-2011, 01:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6S8dzXHbe0
rzapata
12-24-2011, 08:20 AM
Damn, interesting encounter with cops huh Chris? But hey, them searching you and stuff ain't cool at all. All for christmas season I suppose. :chuckle
I want to hear how loud the car is, which made them decide on that. If anything, I don't think they'd know which is improper even if they inspect. Not like they inspect other speeds in a regular basis (I hope not). :chuckle
Sent from my iPhone using the internet
Fack_Dude
12-24-2011, 01:46 PM
thought about saying that but they looked like they had fresh 9V's in the tasers, so.....pass
I'm just glad I can entertain you, as per usual..
I have diamond encrusted "C" and chain on order. Shipping UPS though, so they're probably lost with all the cp-e stuff....
Gang signs? I live on the Danforth...I'm so hood.
I don't think they grabbed my junk? I would have noticed....then again....maybe not.
You live in the hood? Come to my area and you will see ghetto...lol. I even got the graffiti on the garage. Lol
You live in the hood? Come to my area and you will see ghetto...lol. I even got the graffiti on the garage. Lol
No, I do not live in the hood
Fack_Dude
12-24-2011, 05:44 PM
No, I do not live in the hood
It's ok.. I understand bro.
It's ok.. I understand bro.
next time I see you, I'm gonna kick you in the balls.....;)
and on that note, who's up for a coffee next week to have some good laughs? I've got a great story to tell....(the truth this time...)
boyracer
12-24-2011, 07:37 PM
next time I see you, I'm gonna kick you in the balls.....;)
and on that note, who's up for a coffee next week to have some good laughs? I've got a great story to tell....(the truth this time...)
I'm up for coffee
breakfasteatre
12-24-2011, 11:24 PM
down
Mr Wilson
12-25-2011, 10:53 AM
When and where?
BlueStreak
12-25-2011, 01:56 PM
Word.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was getting this heavy stuttering in 1st gear once you open up the throttle on boost. Felt like hitting the rev limiter around 3800 - 4000 rpm...
Changed the spark plugs the other night, and it didn't limit like before but still spluttered right through to redline.
BlueStreak had a look at my old plugs last night and said they looked fine, but suggested that the car could be running so rich that the plugs cannot ignite the fuel.
I have not updated my AP so it won't let me log (I will update it tonight), but on the way home from the FMIC install, I opened up first gear while monitor AFR and it went right down to 8.6.
Seems like it's just flooding the engine with fuel...will need to take a look at my tune tonight and figure out exactly why it's doing this. Obviously it makes the car slow as ass...however when you're light on the throttle it's still peppy.
all suggestions are welcome :)
I'm also convinced that there is a leak in one of the exhaust gaskets (turbo to manifold, turbo to downpipe, manifold to engine) as I'm getting exhaust fumes being drawn into the car through the vents when the heater is on.
At first I figured Ok when the car is at a stop, it's not outrageous for it to draw some fumes in, but last night merging from an on-ramp in 3rd gear at WOT, the inside of the car smelt like exhaust.
I'll have to look into this more.
Booostin
02-09-2012, 12:09 PM
Sorry to hear that... seems like one thing after another :(
Sorry to hear that... seems like one thing after another :(
I'm actually feeling alot better about the whole thing after doing the compression test.
We saw over 190 psi on each cylinder. Assuming we did the compression test correct....haha
It's all part of owning a car like this...always finding something to chase after. Although you could have just left it stock and just drive it, but what's the fun in that? Although what's the fun in chasing down bugs....:bang
Thrizzl3
02-09-2012, 12:23 PM
did dave help you with the compression test or was it before he showed up?
did dave help you with the compression test or what it before he showed up?
before he showed up.
But it's not the hardest thing to figure out
Some more info. BlueStreak suggested having a look at the MAF calibration but I had a quick look at LTFT's on the way home and they're within ABS 2. Will have another look tonight most likely.
However, on the way home on the Gardiner at 4am, I slowed right down, and did a full 3rd gear pull to redline monitoring AFR. It was consistent at 11.5/11.6 and I'm targeting 11.5....
Seems pretty bang on, but will have another look at that too.
horto
02-09-2012, 12:40 PM
I was getting this heavy stuttering in 1st gear once you open up the throttle on boost. Felt like hitting the rev limiter around 3800 - 4000 rpm...
Changed the spark plugs the other night, and it didn't limit like before but still spluttered right through to redline.
BlueStreak had a look at my old plugs last night and said they looked fine, but suggested that the car could be running so rich that the plugs cannot ignite the fuel.
I have not updated my AP so it won't let me log (I will update it tonight), but on the way home from the FMIC install, I opened up first gear while monitor AFR and it went right down to 8.6.
Seems like it's just flooding the engine with fuel...will need to take a look at my tune tonight and figure out exactly why it's doing this. Obviously it makes the car slow as ass...however when you're light on the throttle it's still peppy.
all suggestions are welcome :)
Just curious, is the exhaust making a burping sound followed by a backfire when you unload in gear? (then bogging + TCS blinking)
Just curious, is the exhaust making a burping sound followed by a backfire when you unload in gear? (then bogging + TCS blinking)
not exactly sure what you're asking
horto
02-09-2012, 12:50 PM
not exactly sure what you're asking
come for a drive in my car, i'll show you :)
come for a drive in my car, i'll show you :)
lol
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