CelestSpeed3 Logs

[CelestSpeed3]

Can one of the guru's have a look at these and give me some input, I leaned out the motor a bit but am I still within safety.

5931

Thanks

EDIT: Also MAF has been calibrated to -1.53 for the first break point and -0.73 for the rest. Is there any need to get it tighter than that. It took me a while to get it that close. It's been about 2 months of driving on the map so I think its safe had enough Km's to adjust to it.

[BlueStreak]

That's a decent looking log. Boost could be a tad smoother but overall, not too shabby.

Looking at your spark advance, comparing it to your boost and mass airflow at redline (7000RPMs), it seems like your turbo isn't being very efficient up top. I suspect you feel a significant drop off in power towards redline?

[CelestSpeed3]

Yes sir you got that right. I was wondering if it was just something i did wrong with the tune or that's just how it is.

[BlueStreak]

The stock turbo definitely has no more puff to give for that redline. It barely makes power at 6,750RPM.

I recommend resetting your redline back to stock. All the car is doing know is killing the turbo even quicker without benefit.

[CelestSpeed3]

So am I guess other than smoothing the boost curve this turbo is giving out all it can. I guess a front mount is in order than.

[BlueStreak]

Correct.

There may be some more power to eek out with a bit more timing though. Just be careful if you do decide to up spark advance. Baby steps!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[loki]

So am I guess other than smoothing the boost curve this turbo is giving out all it can. I guess a front mount is in order than.

I'm no expert, but I don't think a FMIC would help too much more at those higher rpms. Looking at your BAT, they're all the way down in 73F. Was it pretty chilly when you took the log?

What I'm getting at, is if it's not making the power you want now, and the BAT's are already that low, adding a FMIC in my opinion would not get the BAT's that low if it was summer temperatures and humid. Unless of course, it was hot and humid when you took the log, in which case, my cp-e TMIC isn't working too well, since I was seeing BATs in the 90's and getting up in the 100's. hahaha

[Fack_Dude]

I'm no expert, but I don't think a FMIC would help too much more at those higher rpms. Looking at your BAT, they're all the way down in 73F. Was it pretty chilly when you took the log?




What I'm getting at, is if it's not making the power you want now, and the BAT's are already that low, adding a FMIC in my opinion would not get the BAT's that low if it was summer temperatures and humid. Unless of course, it was hot and humid when you took the log, in which case, my cp-e TMIC isn't working too well, since I was seeing BATs in the 90's and getting up in the 100's. hahaha


Dont worry bro. The faster you go the cooler the motor will get. :huge smile

[CelestSpeed3]

I believe is was 24C outside when i did the log. It was about 2am and I don't think it was humid at all.

When taking baby steps for timing what do ypu suggest 0.25 degrees at a time, or 0.50 degrees?

[loki]

I believe is was 24C outside when i did the log. It was about 2am and I don't think it was humid at all.



well it shows the effectiveness of the gen2 hoodscoop that's for sure

edit: so your BAT actually is cooler than the outside air temperature? is that even possible?

[CelestSpeed3]

I think you may have mixed up the intake temp, and boost air temp. The best boost air temp gets is 15F over ambient before getting hotter. After 5000rpm the boost temps start to climb, they reach about 40F over ambient at redline.

[fywdyl]

I think you may have mixed up the intake temp, and boost air temp. The best boost air temp gets is 15F over ambient before getting hotter. After 5000rpm the boost temps start to climb, they reach about 40F over ambient at redline.

Definitely mixed up, ha ha. The BATs are ~100*F near redline, still pretty cool for a TMIC.

[loki]

yeh...I totally looked at the wrong column. quick glance at work, must forgive me! haha

[BlueStreak]

I believe is was 24C outside when i did the log. It was about 2am and I don't think it was humid at all.

When taking baby steps for timing what do ypu suggest 0.25 degrees at a time, or 0.50 degrees?

At most 1* per revision. By the looks of it, you have some room up top; the midrange is a little iffy.

You don't know until you try and see how the car reacts.

[CelestSpeed3]

Here is another log I did today. 4th gear pull with 11.9 commanded AFR and some very minor timing changes.

The car has about 100km with this revision installed before the datalog.

Can I get some comments from the masters please.

[Fobio]

you boost and afr curve can be a bit tighter, but nothing out of wack...

the minor knock here and there can be disregarded unless they get worse or consistent.

choose "Stardard Units" so your logs are easier to compare.

[CelestSpeed3]

Thanks, I'll do another couple logs in standard units and post them up.

[CelestSpeed3]

Here are my datalogs from tonight, 4th gear pull same as before commanding 11.9 AFR's and minor timing changes.


6118
6121
6120
6119
6117

I always seem to get some knock between 2500-3500rpm i suppose this is just going to happen since I can't seem to tune it out. The knock at the upper RPM comes and goes and is minor, one log has 3.5 knock retard I'm not sure why.

I've gone through some of the notes i took from the tuning seminar and the online stuff but I can't get my fuel and boost curves to be super smooth like the ones Fobio does. The car feels smooth though.

[fywdyl]

Your AFRs look good to me. Because of the super high sampling rate that you have (and I do too), you'll see the AFR deviate from time to time. But if you plot it in Virtual Dyno, or just in Excel, on average, it is very close to your target of 11.9.

As for your boost, you'll have to experiment to get it right. I noticed that you're maxing out your turbo in the higher rpm range, it may affect the longevity of the turbo, but if you'll be going BT anyway, then I guess this is a non-issue.

[BlueStreak]

Your fueling oscillates +/- .1 or so units. That is extremely good.

- As you mentioned, your boost curve could be a tad smoother but overall its not horrible by any means.
- Your throttle is affecting load targets. Not good/bad, it just is. Are you doing this on purpose? Hybrid tune?
- Have you reached the max amount of timing you can add to the engine?

Looks like a nice tune overall.

[CelestSpeed3]

I dont think I've reached max timing, I only adjusted up 1* from Cobb's settings.

I had traction control on so maybe that is causing it. I'm not running a hybrid tune as of yet.

I was thinking of lowering the boost down to 18psi across the board. During regular driving, I rarely go above 12psi.

BT will come in the future.

[CelestSpeed3]

I have another question, I adjusted my map before and saw no knock after the updated datalogs. I did a datalog tonight with the same map that I have been running for the past few weeks except this time I'm getting all sorts of knock.

Can someone please explain to me why this is? Is my car in need of some kind of maintenance? Bad fuel or something? I just don't understand why I have so much KR all of a sudden when I had next to none before, is it the weather?

6124

[Fobio]

your KR starts @ 1.92 load 12.xx afr's...it never achieved 11.x afr's until it started to pull timing AND dump fuel to hit the 11's.

you're running too lean. if you're commanding 11's and logging 12's, then recalibrate your MAF.

[CelestSpeed3]

I'm commanding 11.9' so i guess i'll go richer.


Trying to get atr to update with no luck.

[CelestSpeed3]

Tried something different to avoid the KR and see what's going on if anything.

Car now targets 18psi across the board, fuel is starting at 11.9@2500, 11.8@3500, 11.7@4000, 11.6@4500-RL. No timing changes.


6131

[Fobio]

Tried something different to avoid the KR and see what's going on if anything.

Car now targets 18psi across the board, fuel is starting at 11.9@2500, 11.8@3500, 11.7@4000, 11.6@4500-RL. No timing changes.


6131

Your afr's hit 11's which is good, but I hope you're doing this thru actually commanding 11's, ie. recalibrated your MAF, rather than fooling it into doing it.

The reason why your VD plots don't start till a certain point, ie. 4000, is because eventho you're flooring it, the actual throttle plate doesn't hit >74.5% OPEN until around 4000rpm. You can mess around with the log to fool VD, but the tune needs to account for it so as to have throttle above 75% or ie. WOT as much as possible. FWIW, Cobb has tested that 100% duty cycle vs. 75% DC makes no difference to power, but for the sake of tuning you should get 75% throttle when you floor it. To address this, also log the param "Actual Pedal Position" or something like that.

Other than that, it looks like you've got the car under control...the idea is that when it does exactly what you command, in the tune and in turn reflected in the logs, then you can safely command more.

[CelestSpeed3]

What I posted is what I'm commanding in ATR. I messed with the MAF calc's for weeks to get it spot on.

How does one know when fueling is reached it's most efficient point? I figured I'd dial in boost, then dial in fuel, then do the timing. Should I get progressively leaner until I start seeing 1KR, then back off a bit then try my hand at the timing.

Does the MAF calc need to be done again for the cold weather?

[Fobio]

What I posted is what I'm commanding in ATR. I messed with the MAF calc's for weeks to get it spot on.

How does one know when fueling is reached it's most efficient point? I figured I'd dial in boost, then dial in fuel, then do the timing. Should I get progressively leaner until I start seeing 1KR, then back off a bit then try my hand at the timing.

Does the MAF calc need to be done again for the cold weather?

I'd fine tune fueling only after you can be sure that your MAF is consistently within 5%, as evidenced by the LTFT. Starting and leaving it @ 11.8 across the board allows you to focus on boost control, which will initially take the most amount of time. Set it at a comfortable linear value, so as to make tuning the MAF easier. Remember the math technique I discussed at the seminar?

Do one thing at a time so you won't have to chase your own tail.

MAF calibration, if done properly SHOULD address for potentially higher amount of air flow in the cold...but best laid plans. Anyway, if you have reached the point where you have dialed in your MAF at this or any temperature, the same technique applies in the cold and hot: you observe your LTFT's and change accordingly. Having said that, I never had a need to make any drastic changes to my MAF due solely to temperature change. Adjusting on the top end may be necessary only for a very few. What can be harmful in the cold, is if someone is tuning blind and without load control, esp in the lower rpms, it is very possible for the turbo to create an overboost condition. This is when I'd caution against strictly boost tuning with neutered load tables.

[CelestSpeed3]

6189

Newest Log with the same map as before. Now with great BAT's thanks to the cold air. I'm still getting that odd KR reports mid RPM for some reason. I'm using the V210 map as a base.

[Fobio]

6189

Newest Log with the same map as before. Now with great BAT's thanks to the cold air. I'm still getting that odd KR reports mid RPM for some reason. I'm using the V210 map as a base.

do you have a really thick floormat?

[CelestSpeed3]

My floormats are the weathertech ones.

Why?

[CelestSpeed3]

6191


I did this log yesterday, targeting 19psi till redline and 11.8 till redline. I don't understand I plugged this log into VD and I got 20whp less then the log posted above. Can anyone explain to me why?

[Fobio]

My floormats are the weathertech ones.

Why?


6191

I did this log yesterday, targeting 19psi till redline and 11.8 till redline. I don't understand I plugged this log into VD and I got 20whp less then the log posted above. Can anyone explain to me why?

You "pedal pos'n" don't hit 99% nor does your "throttle pos'n" stay over 75% for a WOT log...that'll affect your VD plots. That's what I'm referring to.

[CelestSpeed3]

Thanks, i'll check that out and get back to you.

[CelestSpeed3]

Turns out I wasn't pushing my foot to the floor, go figure.

6193

Here is a log from tonight.

This map still makes less power than the other less aggressive map I was running before.

Any reason as to why? This map say 240-245whp, and the other was around 260-265whp, and I doing something wrong?

[Fobio]

I can't say for sure...but looking at your Calc Load, it appears you might be suffering from what a lot of guys in the US are coining "Load Cap 2.0". It is not...but rather it's a matter of technique IMO. Basically, you have "load capped" yourself through a combination of TRL, WGDC and Boost Target.

It's cool that you're showing 99 pedal pos'n...but how the hell are you getting 104%?! lol...did you make a dent in the footwell?!

[CelestSpeed3]

I just pushed it down right to the floor, the AP only showed 100 on the screen the whole time while logging.

Looks like we will have to get together, I've reach the end of my ATR knowledge.

[loki]

I just pushed it down right to the floor, the AP only showed 100 on the screen the whole time while logging.

Looks like we will have to get together, I've reach the end of my ATR knowledge.

but apparently you have exceeded the end of your accelerator pedal :P

[Mr Wilson]

Went to plaid, skipped ludicrous speed.

[CelestSpeed3]

I did 2 logs today, not bavk to back and although I'm boost tuning, I seem to be hitting some sort of load cap. The car targets 19 psi bu after hitting 19psi, after 4500rpm the car stats dropping down to 17psi, and anyone piont me in the right direction on this?

AFR, and spark and dead on and no KR for the logs

[Fobio]

I did 2 logs today, not bavk to back and although I'm boost tuning, I seem to be hitting some sort of load cap. The car targets 19 psi bu after hitting 19psi, after 4500rpm the car stats dropping down to 17psi, and anyone piont me in the right direction on this?

AFR, and spark and dead on and no KR for the logs

Are these the emperor's new logs?

j/k bro...you forgot to attach your logs for us to see...

[CelestSpeed3]

Here are the logs

6327
6326

[BlueStreak]

I'll have a look at your logs as soon as I have time to sit down in front of a computer for a while to study them. Been wicked busy.

Until then, I will resort to trolling the forums.

[Fobio]

I'll have a look at your logs as soon as I have time to sit down in front of a computer for a while to study them. Been wicked busy.

Until then, I will resort to trolling the forums.

by the time you get around to it the forums will be off....lol..and for fast-dude, I think you need to get him a turbo keychain...that's about the right size turbo for him...lol...

Paul, boost tuning is not an auto-bypass of the ecu's logic...it still looks up load-related tables for its parameters. Simplying the tune for the sake of "hitting" a boost target negates any benefits of having an advanced ECU...you're not tuning the car really to run a particular boost.

Try using the new maps and ATR. If you want to keep doing it yourself, then you need to keep an open mind and understand the logic, rather than relying on a toggle to make it "appear" easier. Don't get so hung up on "boost tuning" or whatever...it's not a real proper technique to begin with and it goes against the ECU's logic, and you can see David@Cobb fighting to clean up some of the previously faulty implementation of what some other guy THOUGHT was right.

Regarding your logs...your "Throttle Pos'n" again, doesn't hit past 75% until late in the log, and furthermore, your "Accel. Pos'n" also doesn't hit 99%. Check out the others' logs; throttle pos'n hits>75% and accel pedal hits 99%. Take out that floor mat or sit closer. lastly, don't bother featherring the throttle when you log...floor it at 2000rpm and let it do it's thing.

[CelestSpeed3]

Thanks Vincent. I'm just trying to learn the in's and outs of this thing slowly.

Regardless, you will be tuning the BIG motor. I don't want to mess anything up, and you know far more about this than I do.

[Fobio]

Thanks Vincent. I'm just trying to learn the in's and outs of this thing slowly.

Regardless, you will be tuning the BIG motor. I don't want to mess anything up, and you know far more about this than I do.

Paul, in the meantime, there's not much of concern with your logs. A couple of things:

1. Eventho you're logging now, I suppose this is in preparation for the build? Just to ensure everything in on the up and up? If so, then you look fine from here.

2. You're hitting 280g/s...let's assume you're or close to fully bolted, that's not too shabby. On a cold night, and advanced timing you might hit over 300g/s, but if you are being load-capped right now, it's still not that bad...you're riding the 20psi threshold, and it looks fine.

[CelestSpeed3]

So my adjustments have been coming along well a few hp with each map revision, here was my last one.

6343

6342

Can someone explain why I'm losing torque from 2500-3000rpm?

My throttle also seems odd since day one with this car. I know it's over 100 because I made 90% the new 100% and scaled the whole table down. Even when 100 was 100, I still managed to hit over 100. I doesn't seem like my throttle plate is opening as much as it should though.

[BlueStreak]

Have you altered the DBW A-C tables?

6344

Where you see a value of 80, bump it up to 85 and do another pull. That should get you closer to 77% throttle (WOT) for the entire rev range when the pedal is at the bottom.

The dip in torque may be due to the throttle not doing what it is supposed to or a lack of timing. I would suggest holding off on playing with timing until you figure out the throttle mapping. Another thing to note is that an engine doesn't always make a perfectly smooth powerband; it can sometimes be the tiniest bit choppy. Using the "smoothing" settings on Virtual Dyno will give the appearance of a smoother powerband. Smoothing set at 3 is generally accepted as standard.

One thing I did find interesting is that your WGDC is 0 for most of the pull yet you're making boost right up to 20PSI in part of the pull. Hmm...

[Fobio]

I think this may be his latest...lol...last bit there may be wheel spin @ 6000rpm...

this is before latest map which targets and hits 20psi.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Yjp_P8qtcFs/T40DPl1dWOI/AAAAAAAAE3k/xhwvuIr-Jes/s1024/VD002_Corrected.jpg