CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

[Fobio]

Here you go guys...

let's start with the most popular vehicle on this forum...how would one go about prepping a Mazda3 for CASC: OTA? What are some of the rules and nuances one must pay attn to in order to be competitive or at least, have fun?

[Kiyomi]

where is this held?

[thanu31]

where is this held?

more the one place.
get registered on the CASC forum, theres a lot of information --> http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11

[Lloyd]

The classification system in OTA is an interesting one - it's like the one NASA uses in the states in the sense that you accumulate points for modifications and they eventually bump you up a class.

For those that don't know, you can classify your car on this site: http://www.macrocosm.on.ca/ccdb/

Coming from a guy with a Prelude I would argue the system certainly has its pitfalls. I think it is generally too hard on the FWD sport compacts. The Speed3 for example has a "handling index" of 70 - the same as an RX8. Not reasonable considering the Speed3's econobox roots, FWD-ness, and other factors, but it is what it is - and handling index is only a portion of the system, for the most part it is based on power to weight.

The idea of the system is to allow any given car, from stock to highly modified ones, to walk into the series and have a shot at competing effectively with good driving. It does a decent job of doing this if you don't take it too seriously.

The reason I like it for all its foibles is that at the end of the day it puts the responsibility for lap times on the driver and not the car. Sure I could have gotten the Prelude out of the 40s at MIR with better tires, but my class would have been upgraded to reflect the fact that it was my car that was faster, not my driving. To score better you need to drive faster. That has helped me focus on improving as a driver.


My advice for setting up a modern sport compact with pretty decent dynamics from the factory (eg, Prelude or the 3/Speed3) would be:

Don't add too much power, street tires, front camber, very big rear ARB.


Street tires: A stockish car, especially one with struts like the 3 will have trouble dealing with sticky tires. Lots of body roll leads to the tire decambering. Street tires produce less grip and drop you down two classes, but that might make you more competitive.

Camber: "Non-stock alignment", eg, an alignment outside of factory specs is only 1 suspension PIP and pretty cheap for what you get. Choosing how much camber you want on a strut based FWD car is tricky - but you want more than stock that's for sure.

Rear ARB: Again only 1 pip and starts to address body roll while using the rear axle to soak up as much load transfer as possible. Means more front grip for other stuff, which is good. This combined with front camber can make for a touchy car to drive so don't overdo it - set up the car within your abilities to drive it otherwise you will go slower.

Not too much power: The system doesn't account for the fact that high power FWD cars don't put their power down very well. Making such a setup work is not easy, although it is possible. I think both the 3 and Speed3 will get enough power out of engine mods that they won't kill you (especially if you qualify to use a dyno submission, read the fine print on that carefully). But adding power in a FWD car is tricky.

A few more notes:
Brakes are FREE, but you don't need that much in braking to just do 3 laps
Chassis bracing is FREE, but keep in mind it adds mass :)
If you can replace all the suspension bushings on the car for 1 pip - it's also a cheap pip if you do everything.


Fully built suspensions: In my Prelude I took pips for alignment, shocks, springs and a rear bar. I kept them on because it made the car more fun. Keep in mind that on street tires with a car that handles well stock don't expect a lot of time out of a suspension setup unless it is really well engineered and aggressive. It is hard to come out ahead when you do everything, although it is possible.


At the end of the day I would suggest keeping things simple and don't take the system too seriously. I went from 20th overall in 2010 to 3rd overall in 2011 by changing cars. It just helps you benchmark against yourself, and a bit against others. Fobio's car is in SGT1 for example, but if I was driving it I would probably be happy with SGT3 times, for example.

[Mr Wilson]

Lloyd, thanks for the post. Super informative!

[Fobio]

Thanks Lloyd!

Guys, if you have plans to run OTA, please feel free to ask your questions here. Not every forum has the luxury of a resident OTA rep to help them navigate thru the rules and all the fine print. Gathering enough interest and momentum in a particular series will help us focus our efforts for bigger things.

[Lloyd]

Thanks guys

Happy to help anyone with any questions about the series.

And for what it's worth FWD certainly can work. I lost this year to a SOHC CRX which placed 2nd... and the enmo.ca has run in the series in both low and high power configurations and done well (which is a pretty built car).

[thanu31]

So I did some reading up on casc, but can you guys help clarify some things?

I see it says you need to be apart of an affiliated club? And we need a C-class licence, but that link does not work any more.

So basically, we are competing against our class right? For the regular 3's I guess we are all grouped in GT4 unless applicable mods bump us up right?

Lastly, what kind of costs are we looking at to be a part of the OTA.


Really interested in being apart of the series next year, hope you guys could help out.
Thanks

[Lloyd]

CASC essentially an organization composed of a bunch of car clubs. So to run CASC events you need to be part of one of the clubs. http://www.casc.on.ca/club_list

The Class C license covers some costs like insurance and timing equipment. I'm not entirely sure if it will be around for Time Attack again this year or if the fees will just be rolled into the event fees, but either way the cost will be about the same, just a difference in administration. You might find the link working better now....

The scoring system is able to relate different classes against each other and there is an "overall" championship as well as class championships. Lots of folks focus on just winning their class which can be challenging in of itself in big classes.

2012 will be a best 7 of 10 events, two of which will be at Grand Bend, the new track down by Lake Erie, with the rest at the usual collection of DDT/MIR/TMP/Shannonville (Pro and Long). Cost per event, if you pre-pay at the Open House in April is usually in the mid-low $100s per event at short tracks, and the mid-high $100s for MIR. I'm not sure what pricing for 2012 will be like, and it again depends if the Class C is rolled into events or not - either way it is likely to be cost neutral.

So if you want to run enough events to compete for a trophy it is roughly $1000 for enough track events to fill up a summer. I found my Prelude pretty reasonable to run, a full season would take about:

1 set of "street" tires
1.5 sets of front pads (HP+/DS2500)
1-2 sets of front rotors
1 oil change (use good oil)
1 brake fluid change (use good fluid)


The new car is a bit more than that, although not much more. I would think a base 3 would be a little less in brakes and a Speed 3 would be a bit more.


The base class listed in the CCDB is on premium R comp tires by the way (eg, Hoosier R6). Drop 1 class if you put on a treaded R (eg, RA1/R888/NT01), or 2 classes for a 140+ TW "street" tire.

[breakfasteatre]

subbed

[breakfasteatre]

What is a TW "street" tire?

[Lloyd]

TW = treadwear

140 is the arbitrary line that a lot of organizations (eg, SCCA) use to determine what a "street" tire is.

[breakfasteatre]

thanks lloyd :)

[sjd]

While I am lucky since the MX-5 is an incredible platform to build a competitive car from, most of what I'm going to say applies to any car. In stock form the MX-5 is a bit underpowered and a bit soft for what we do but I realized I could change that.

I also realized that if I wanted to build a class competitive car, I needed to choose my modifications carefully. The guys in the U.S. are hyper-competitive at everything, so I started reading what they did and what worked (and what didn't) and found that since my car is used as the basis as a race car in the MX-5 Cup series, I could learn a lot from those cars and drivers.

The same goes for the Mazda3, there are people that race them now and more recently the 2010 Mazdaspeed3 is raced in the Grand Am/Koni Challenge/Continental Series. What are they doing to it that could translate to any Mazda3? The off season is the best time for research.

So once I figured that out, I optimized the mods I was planning on doing. I took pips for shocks and springs but run the same spring rates as the MX-5 Cup cars, I also run the exact same sway bars from a Cup car as well. So I've used a proven set-up that should help me go fast. I worried less about power in my car and more about handling. Like Lloyd, I'd recommend you guys do the same.

Due to my select group of mods and street tires, I am currently in GT3. At the end of the day it all depends on how competitive you want to be in your class. I like the challenge. However my #1 recommendation is seat time. Get as much feedback you can and as many people in the car with you as possible. Just be willing to learn and don't get discouraged because fun is what its all about.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

I did some mock-ups of a regular 3 on the CCDB

* base class GT4

note, intakes and cat-back exhausts appear to be free

Common Mods Config 1 - GT4 (grooved/premium R-compounds bumps up to GT2, treaded R's bumps up to GT3)
* Header
* no cat (with cat doesn't change class)
* street tires
* front sway bar
* rear sway bar
* shocks (includes coilovers)
* springs (includes coilovers)

Common Mods Config 2 - T1 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT3, treaded R's bumps up to GT4)
* street tires
* shocks
* springs
* front sway bar
* rear sway bar

Common Mods Config 3 - GT4 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT2, treaded R's bumps up to GT3)
* cat delete
* street tires
* shocks
* springs
* front sway bar
* rear sway bar

Common Mods Config 4 - T1 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT3, treaded R's bumps up to GT4)
* street tires
* shocks
* springs

Results from 2011 (http://www.casc.on.ca/sites/default/files/overallnoviceclasspoints_2.txt) ...note that the overall champion was an 01 Mustang GT classed in T1, and 2nd was an 89 Honda CRX in GT4

[Malereka]

Some great information in this thread, very impressed. I'm the driver of the 03 Mustang GT that won last year. Funny enough, I was looking to buy a Mazda 3 last year:

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?50761-Mazda-3-admirer&p=716330&highlight=#post716330

That should tell you guys that the car has a chance to do really well in Ontario Time Attack if you're competitive, and if not, it's still a great car to learn on and have fun in.

Majestic Blue has done the hard work in quickly figuring out the MZ3 classifications. Just FYI, last year, I was looking at getting it into T3 so basically stock everything and just camber (maybe).

[sjd]

Modern cars are tuned to run with cats so there isn't the performance gain there once was from removing them. If I had a Mazda3 I would look at running T1 on street tires.

[thanu31]

thanks for the info lloyd

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Found the 2012 CASC Time Attack schedule on the CASC forums (http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/showthread.php?p=196646)

I'm planning on the MIR dates as I can use as much seat time at MIR as possible and CASC had some of the cheapest prices when paid at the Open House.

Grand Bend Raceway is out by Lake Huron (http://g.co/maps/764hc)... the track configs (http://www.grandbendraceway.com/race/images/stories/roadcourse%20edit.jpg) look interesting

[Fobio]

Those MIR dates are pretty good...and I would like to try out Grand Bend, even tho it's another "flat" course. And Grand Bend...it's always fun to hang out on the 10km+ long white sand beach!

[standsideways]

Here you go guys...

let's start with the most popular vehicle on this forum...how would one go about prepping a Mazda3 for CASC: OTA? What are some of the rules and nuances one must pay attn to in order to be competitive or at least, have fun?

Ide love to run my car in OTA.. But the rules arent in my favor.

[Fobio]

Ide love to run my car in OTA.. But the rules arent in my favor.

and I've posted that they're not in mine either...but it's not like I'll get upset about it...at the end of the day, fun comes first for me.

having said that, note that any regionally sanctioned series (official, in the eyes of the FIA) will run a proper rule-book.

Nothing stops us from running a "Mazda3-only series" on TM3 based off of the points. =) But of course, we need enough interest and momentum.

[standsideways]

and I've posted that they're not in mine either...but it's not like I'll get upset about it...at the end of the day, fun comes first for me.
.

My 2.3 turbo sedan gets more PIP than youd think, wich really basically puts my car out.

I bet it gets quite a few more than your speed3!!

[Fobio]

My 2.3 turbo sedan gets more PIP than youd think, wich really basically puts my car out.

I bet it gets quite a few more than your speed3!!

Not my speed3, my friend...but it's not like I'm gloating or anything. I can get into the Mod class just by changing tires...lol...and as it stands, I'm already in SGT1.

Also, I'm talking about running our own series...but I'll let MBNTO chime in since he's got some ideas as well.

[standsideways]

Not my speed3, my friend...but it's not like I'm gloating or anything. I can get into the Mod class just by changing tires...lol...and as it stands, I'm already in SGT1.
It looks like im up at about 45 pip and 10bpip

Is that around what you have fobio?

Ide be up for it but it seems like im in need of a cage,supression system, and all the other racing gear, wich is more $ than running an entire season at cscs + more track days.

I like the mazda series idea also, with the way people are buying up mazdas im sure itd be a great series, and mazda would always be in on some racing!

[Fobio]

It looks like im up at about 45 pip and 10bpip

Is that around what you have fobio?

Ide be up for it but it seems like im in need of a cage,supression system, and all the other racing gear, wich is more $ than running an entire season at cscs + more track days.

I like the mazda series idea also, with the way people are buying up mazdas im sure itd be a great series, and mazda would always be in on some racing!

What class do you end up in? With PIP's, they're not really something to be proud of...esp if it puts you in a class where you're never going to be competitive. The nuance of it all is to be abale to setup your car to maximize its performance while maintaining the competitiveness of it by staying in an appropriate class...a full out modded MZ3/MS3 will never be able to compete with a full blown mod class formula car with aero, for example.

A side series is definitely doable, but the points/class system we wil have to run is just an idea right now. Currently, there are sponsors of CASC OTA that runs their own side series, and I'm sure we can do that...but it'll only make sense if there's enough interest.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

A side series is definitely doable, but the points/class system we wil have to run is just an idea right now. Currently, there are sponsors of CASC OTA that runs their own side series, and I'm sure we can do that...but it'll only make sense if there's enough interest.

posted some ideas in this thread (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?59407-What-series-do-you-plan-to-run-next-year&p=866486&viewfull=1#post866486) to get some discussion going and keep this thread about CASC Ontario Time Attack.

as for PIPs, a stage 2 Mazdaspeed3 - modded properly for safety on stock engine, stock turbo - can easily be classed in SGT1.

[standsideways]

Im having a few issues with understanding this rulebook, please excuse my idiocy.

It looks like ide be gt2 but could possibly push gt3.

I misunderstood the PIP SPIP BPIP system and now am actually alot happier where i am LOL

I knew i could never drive in sgt and thats what i THOUGHT ide be placed into.

So i need to join a casc-or club ?

[standsideways]

What class do you end up in? With PIP's, they're not really something to be proud of...esp if it puts you in a class where you're never going to be competitive. The nuance of it all is to be abale to setup your car to maximize its performance while maintaining the competitiveness of it by staying in an appropriate class...a full out modded MZ3/MS3 will never be able to compete with a full blown mod class formula car with aero, for example.


My fear was that exactly, i know i cannot compete in sgt with the little track time i have!

[Donutz]

I'm considering running an OTA event this year, likely MIR. I won't prep my car for a class, but I'll run it in whatever class it falls into (likely GT1 =/). For me the fun factor and seat time apply, and are most important, not being competitive. At this point I know I need as much seat time as possible to improve my skills and consistency, and that it's unlikely that I will be competitive in any class.

My advice to others here who have expressed concern about which class their cars fall into and lack experience, is to not worry about the car class. Go run in whatever class you fall into because in all likelihood you won't be competitive in most classes so have fun, learn your car and the extent of your skills, and focus on making small improvements!

[sjd]

My advice to others here who have expressed concern about which class their cars fall into and lack experience, is to not worry about the car class. Go run in whatever class you fall into because in all likelihood you won't be competitive in most classes so have fun, learn your car and the extent of your skills, and focus on making small improvements!

I second this. I would also like to add that CASC alone is offering 2 track schools, one on May 5/6 at Mosport's DDT and another on July 28 at Mosport International Raceway. I took the DDT school in 2007 with my Mazdaspeed6 and learned a lot and will be at both because you can never have too much seat time with instruction. CASC also has certified instructors who are adept at teaching others, not just fast drivers who are trying to teach. This is very important.

[standsideways]

http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=5503&d=1322698597

Grand bend... tmp2.0 should be a cool experience, as ive never even seen cars on the GB roadcourse.

What CASC club are you guys a part of?

Not sure wich to join.

[sjd]

What CASC club are you guys a part of?

Not sure wich to join.

I'd recommend the SPDA. Although started as a group of Subaru owners they now welcome all makes and model. I have my 2010 MX-5 and a 2000 Civic SiR.

http://spda-online.ca/

They also offer instruction and mentoring from more experienced members (and they have some fast drivers in the club) and offer excellent discounts through club sponsors (like tires) which helps a lot. It's also only $25 a year to join.

[Lloyd]

The PIP system is a bit complicated, you can't just add them up. Engine PIPs, for example, are based on a car's base HP rating.

Build your car on http://www.macrocosm.on.ca/ccdb/ and see what you get.

[breakfasteatre]

I'd recommend the SPDA. Although started as a group of Subaru owners they now welcome all makes and model. I have my 2010 MX-5 and a 2000 Civic SiR.

http://spda-online.ca/

They also offer instruction and mentoring from more experienced members (and they have some fast drivers in the club) and offer excellent discounts through club sponsors (like tires) which helps a lot. It's also only $25 a year to join.

I notice it says on the website 40% off of toyo ra-1s
Anyone have experience with this?

[Fobio]

I notice it says on the website 40% off of toyo ra-1s
Anyone have experience with this?

I joined SPDA and renew yearly at the CASC Open House in Newmarket (your hood!) in April. I have also attened their school for the big track. We should organize a meet there this year, esp if you want to head it up!

The discount is good for tires through the authorized dealers...SPDA should have a list of them and you can call for prices.

[Lloyd]

It is 40% off MSRP - which in the tire retail industry is rarely seen (most distributors sell for less than MSRP).

But the tire deals (and other SPDA deals) are good ones, no doubt about it. You can get Toyo and Talon coupons which can combine for some big savings.

[Donutz]

I notice it says on the website 40% off of toyo ra-1s
Anyone have experience with this?

Can you still buy RA1's? I thought they aren't being produced anymore.

[Fobio]

Can you still buy RA1's? I thought they aren't being produced anymore.

You can buy RA1's...just not newly produced and not from the Talon dealers...hahaha...the default tire from Toyo is now the R888.

However, Nitto still produces a tire with the RA1 compound...I believe the NT-01's?

[Mr Wilson]

Surprised someone is bringing them up. Toyo Canada said they weren't and that I'd/you'd have to go through a US dealer for them.

[Donutz]

Yes I believe NT-01 is correct.

[Lloyd]

I believe they have been making new RA1s in certain sizes again. I am not sure there is a big distribution network for them in Canada though. The R888 is definitely the "default" race tire now.

[standsideways]

I believe they have been making new RA1s in certain sizes again.

Spec miata sizes maybe?

Im really stuck on 140 treadwear tires, i dont know if i want to bump up a class or not.

[Lloyd]

American Iron as well?

I saw a set of 17" with a 2010 build date this summer, so they are around.


I would definitely suggest a 140TW tire for Time Attack. You will get something that lasts a bit longer than an R comp and is going to be a bit less touchy about car setup.

That said, the difference between an NT01 or 888 and the fast "street tires" like the RS3, AD08, or XS is pretty subtle, so run whatever makes you happy.

[standsideways]

Anyone use the CASC forum?

[BMWWW]

Anyone use the CASC forum?

Yeuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup

Its the offseason right now, so the main road-racing/autox forums are a bit slow. Ice-racing forum will pickup pretty soon now that the track-completion is in progress; and the rest will pickup come hints of warmer weather!

[standsideways]

I registered 8 days ago, and filled out the required info.

Then 4 days ago i send the admin an email asking to be activated.

Then again yesterday another email to the admin.

Still nothing, thinkin someones sleepin @ the job :p

[standsideways]

Wow, an hour later and im approved.

Someone watchin the tm3 forums lol

[Spin2Win]

Info, Introductions, and a Plug...

Great thread on what OTA is all about. The classification system is second to none in a series where anyone can run anything. There are enough classes so that you aren't competing against guys that have spent way more to build crazy fast cars. The PIP system predicts how fast your car will go around a race track, but too many pips in one area, and you are the victim of the law of diminishing returns. Most people put too much into engine mods, when suspension mods give you more bang for the buck.

The series is newby-friendly, so you won't be embarrassed when you come out for the first time. Of course you should do the first school, and get as much track time as you can. Each day starts off with open lapping until noon, so people can learn the track.

I'll be organizing the TMP event at Cayuga, the Grand Bend Raceway weekend, and co-organizing the Mosport DDT school. If you have any questions on the events or venues, feel free to post them here or on the CASC forums - or drop me a PM.

I'm also the President of the Toronto Autosport Club, so naturally feel that we have better stuff to offer than SPDA! The CASC clubs break down between marque clubs (BMW, Volvo, HADA,...) and regional clubs (OMSC, MCO, WOSCA,...). Each club focuses on slightly different areas. Besides OTA, TAC is big in Ice Racing (Mazda GTX's are the star attraction), Rally, Race, and a few social events (we always have a private corral at the Mosport ALMS weekend with gourmet bbq and discount tickets).

Hoping to see more people competing for the Novice title this year!

Rob
SGT2 1995 BMW 325is
(former Mazda GLC Sport and MX-3 GS owner)

[CelestSpeed3]

Spec miata sizes maybe?

Im really stuck on 140 treadwear tires, i dont know if i want to bump up a class or not.

Run 255/40-17 RS-3's like I do. After a fender roll it fits the gen2 with no rubbing. The treadwear is 140 so you should be fine.

[standsideways]

Run 255/40-17 RS-3's like I do. After a fender roll it fits the gen2 with no rubbing. The treadwear is 140 so you should be fine.

i cant fit 255 on my 8" wide ce28's i dont think.

[Fobio]

i cant fit 255 on my 8" wide ce28's i dont think.

you're not supposed to. celest is running 17x9". However, we're fitting 245's to 8" wide. That's max I'd go on an 8" rim on a track car...just in case the stancers are reading and decides to chime in...lol...

[Mr Wilson]

^^^Agreed, I'm looking at 235 which are arguably outside of the 7.5" rim size.

[standsideways]

Ill likely do 235/45 on 8" wide
Dunlop z1 likely

[breakfasteatre]

IMO rs3 > star specs in value and so close in performance based on reviews that the price difference isnt warranted.

[standsideways]

IMO rs3 > star specs in value and so close in performance based on reviews that the price difference isnt warranted.

I cant find 235 or 245/17 of rs3's anwhere in stock or available : /

[breakfasteatre]

aye, i was thinking you were running 18s

as well, from what ive heard from sponsors, rs3s arent a stock item in canada

[Fobio]

aye, i was thinking you were running 18s

as well, from what ive heard from sponsors, rs3s arent a stock item in canada

all I can say is talk to MBNTO.

[breakfasteatre]

I have, i had said that from info garnered from him and sponsors on the forum. He bought his from discount tire in the states

[breakfasteatre]

actually, let me alter my statement a little

right now, early bird, sponsors can get the tires, tax in, installed for the same price as discount tire will.

[Lloyd]

Video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vnve5Ed_MU

Visit www.time-attack.ca for details on schedule, easy to follow registration steps, videos and all the rest.

[Fobio]

I talked to Dave Barker tonight...well, more like we had him as a captive audience...lol...and I took full advantage of the opportunity to share my thoughts with him about the classing and PIP system...amongst many other things...lol...

anyway, he did suggest that we use the Dyno system instead, which will in fact save all high HP cars a lot of headaches of dealing with the PIP's and THEN resorting to the dyno system. The dyno system is in fact a bit more involving than just another dyno day. Everything has to be SAE corrected with info submitted to CASC/OTA for review. But if I had known this before hand, it might have made last season more enjoyable as I would've went that route directly and save myself some headaches.

Anyway, I have also asked them to elaborate a bit more about the dyno system, and perhaps Lloyd can help us out. Even a 400whp MS3 running against a 1988 Maxima, for example, isn't really fair, but if the driver is a relative novice, running that MS3 against a track car with aero in the Mod class isn't really competitive either. I told Dave Barker that perhaps a brief seminar at the annual open house at CSC in Newmarket regarding the Dyno System for novices.

This info is likely most pertinent to high hp MS3's.

[CelestSpeed3]

Sum it up: Mod class for everyone, just like when I has the 6.


Its time we get active aero. Anyone up for a full underbody kit? I have to side with Ferrari I don't really like spoilers unless they are Huge and makes civics jealous. That and running a spoiler on a hatchback just looks stupid. We could at least lower the negative pressure behind the car and increase some downforce at the same time.

[Lloyd]

Dyno rule almost ends up being simple but gets a bit sidetracked on the way to being simple.



Go to dyno your very modded car on one of the listed chassis dynos with SAE correction, run the car in your "near to 1:1 gear", not that it matters (but humor the people that think it does).

Submit your dyno plot

Your car will be classified based on the higher of the result of:

Estimated crank HP from the measured wheel HP (this estimation depends on a dyno)

or

Your first 5 ePIPs + 1/4 of the remaining ePIPs claimed


This is likely going to be lower than the previous result of

All of your ePIPs fully claimed.

[Fobio]

Hey Lloyd, thanks for sticking around and generally being a great resource to the guys who plan to run this yr. Since Dave is open to a Rule Book Seminar @ the Open House, I was wondering if the guys can kid-nap you for a couple of hrs on a wknd afternoon, and ply you with beers and conversation...so we can ask you qustions about setting up a car. MSpeed is considering putting on a seminar on "track car prep" and if we do carry it out, it'd be great to have someone like yourself be the expert-in-attendance to chat with the guys. Let me know what you think!

[CelestSpeed3]

+1 I'll supply the first case.

[Lloyd]

Sounds good to me

[CelestSpeed3]

So where/when are we doing this?

Lloyd what area of the GTA are you in?

[Lloyd]

Midtown

[Lloyd]

The open house is coming up soon though :)

[bhrm]

Video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vnve5Ed_MU

Visit www.time-attack.ca for details on schedule, easy to follow registration steps, videos and all the rest.

I would like to say I have 0.5% involvement and input during the post-production process for that video :)

[Malereka]

I would like to say I have 0.5% involvement and input during the post-production process for that video :)

This is true, the 99% I did would have been useless without it, thanks! When I win the Oscar, I will be sure to mention your name. I did the MIR vid too and made sure to get a MS3 in there for you guys.

[it says Ontario Promotions Committee at the end and not my name because the committee is responsible for approving content, and sponsorship/brand issues and thus would not allow individual artistic credits]

[MajesticBlueNTO]

for all those subbed to this thread, see the new thread posted by Dave B (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?61728-Mobil-1-Time-Attack-Open-House-and-Rule-Book-Seminar&p=908995&viewfull=1#post908995)

specifically this part:



As many of you know the CASC Time-Attack rule book can become quite complicated with respect to classifying highly modified cars. We are offering a seminar about the rule book starting at 12:15 i.e just before the Open House starts at 1 PM to try and help new competitors join the series

[Fubawu]

Thought I would introduce myself, John with a White 2010 ms3 I have finalized the car for this years season.
I am running in GT3 as my mods are minor, Intake, test pipe, also waiting for a rear sway bar upgrade.
I will be on Hankook RS-3's RX-7 16 x 8 wheels. 13lbs is a big upgrade over the stockers. Laslty HP+ pads
and slotted rotors.

The car has responded well to the small changes as I have already had 4 track days this year to slowly make these changes.
I will be up at TMP Wed if anyone else is going we can chat. If anyone needs any advice or wants a tour around the track let me know
I have done close to a 80 track days and no not all in the MS3 ;)
Cheers
John

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Thought I would introduce myself, John with a White 2010 ms3 I have finalized the car for this years season.
I am running in GT3 as my mods are minor, Intake, test pipe, also waiting for a rear sway bar upgrade.
I will be on Hankook RS-3's RX-7 16 x 8 wheels. 13lbs is a big upgrade over the stockers. Laslty HP+ pads
and slotted rotors.

The car has responded well to the small changes as I have already had 4 track days this year to slowly make these changes.
I will be up at TMP Wed if anyone else is going we can chat. If anyone needs any advice or wants a tour around the track let me know
I have done close to a 80 track days and no not all in the MS3 ;)
Cheers
John

you're running an intake AND a test pipe on a GenPu without a HPFP...or at least an AccessPort to gimp your tune until you do get a HPFP?

[Fubawu]

yup, should I be scared. Is the fuel system that poor that it can't handle an intake and a test pipe?

[Fubawu]

Wow, I just did some reading and it looks like I will be putting the stock intake back on.
I did not realize how the FP was such a weak point. I thought a couple simple mods would
have no effect on FP levels. What would be the better solution AP or upgraded Fuel Pump
Can't do both at the moment $$

[MajesticBlueNTO]

yup, should I be scared. Is the fuel system that poor that it can't handle an intake and a test pipe?

take some time to read the MSpeed Mod Path Series (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?60967-MS3-Mods-Directory-Must-Know-information)... it really should be required reading for any new MS3 owner.

Since you removed 1 cat by adding a test pipe, you technically qualify as a Stage 2 according to Cobb...however, GenPu's had issues with the fueling logic even with an intake.

The issue is, when the DI fuel pressure drops below 1600 psi, the ECU commands more fuel to run rich and save the car, but the stock HPFP can't keep up and drops pressure further.

This is explained further in Cobb's map notes:

The Mazdaspeed3 ECU has implemented logic that will significantly increase fueling to the engine once the DI
Fuel Pressure drops below ~1600psi. This logic is intelligent by design, but also puts excessive demands on the
fueling system and further forces the DI Fuel Pressure to drop well below safe or effective levels. This new logic
combined with an inadequate factory Camshaft Driven Fuel Pump (CDFP) results in the following.
• ALL Stage1 OTS Calibrations have been designed to run within the limits of the factory CDFP to remain
safe. Even at this power level, some vehicle may exceed the capacity of the factory CDFP. It is highly
recommended to run a "Safe Mode" calibration on the vehicle until a quality aftermarket CDFP can be
installed.
• ALL Stage2 OTS Calibrations REQUIRE a quality aftermarket CDFP to run properly. If you have Stage2
hardware on your vehicle and have not installed a quality aftermarket CDFP, it is highly recommended
to run a "Safe Mode" calibration on the vehicle until a quality aftermarket CDFP can be installed. (http://www.cobbtuning.com/v/accessport/maps/mazda/mazdaspeed3/Map_Notes/v210/MAZ_US_MS3_BASE_07_12.pdf)

at the very least, if you're concerned about PIPs for a tune, get an AP, marry it and leave it in stock mode to log/monitor your DI Fuel Pressure. If you're dropping significantly at WOT, you know you'll need a pump and either throw a safe mode tune on it or take the test pipe off. Then log again with intake only.. rinse and repeat.

If it were me, I wouldn't track the car in that config without a HPFP AND a tune.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Wow, I just did some reading and it looks like I will be putting the stock intake back on.
I did not realize how the FP was such a weak point. I thought a couple simple mods would
have no effect on FP levels. What would be the better solution AP or upgraded Fuel Pump
Can't do both at the moment $$

the minimal cost solution would be to take the test pipe and intake off and run completely stock. without a tune to adjust your MAF calibration to account for the intake, you're not taking full advantage of the intake.

[standsideways]

John- glad to see ya move over from casc forum

[SKYMP3]

the minimal cost solution would be to take the test pipe and intake off and run completely stock. without a tune to adjust your MAF calibration to account for the intake, you're not taking full advantage of the intake.

I had the same problem before and I asked Jimmy if taking out the test pipe will save my psi, he said no. In the long run, I still have to upgrade the FP.

I went ahead and bought the Autoech Internal upgrade. If you can't afford the FP now, I would say ya, go back to stock and buy a an AP, monitor it. Unless you save him enough and upgrade the FP and put the mods back on.

[CelestSpeed3]

Can someone please post a link to the CASC safety rules for competing vehicles. I looked on the site and I can't seem to open it. Google was not much help.


Everytime i click on the link, it says 403 Forbidden. I guess CASC doesn't want us. Hahaha


Edit: their website says the server move is finished and that the rules sextion is up and running. Maybe running away. . .

[sjd]

Here you are.

http://www.casc.on.ca/timeattack_rules

[CelestSpeed3]

Thanks Steve the links are working now. When i tried before it wouldn't work.

[sjd]

I believe you. lol.