damage without cdfp?

[mspeed3]

Im sure this topic has been beat to death and for that i apologize

I wasnt educated on the matter and Ive had my corksport sri and test pipe installed last summer without an cdfp or accessport. I dont have any reason to believe that theres anything wrong with the car, but a comment from cobb's website has been on my mind.

Cobb's site mentions that even for stage 1 maps, some vehicles may exceed the capacity of the factory CDFP. How many people have experienced damage on gen2 speed3s? And what sort of damage? Is it likely that i could have fried something?

maybe a bit of paranoia?

[MPS]

is ur speed 2010 and up ?

[mspeed3]

yep

[MPS]

never mind just looked at ur profile and it is 2010
you will need a pump you run the risk of blowing ur motor
ill just let Fobio shcool you !

[mspeed3]

but could I have already caused some damage because of sri and testpipe?


never mind just looked at ur profile and it is 2010
you will need a pump you run the risk of blowing ur motor

[MPS]

do some data logs and post them up

[Fack_Dude]

Just go out and step on the bitch and if she blows just have it towed back to the stealership. And if she doesnt blow post some logs.

[MPS]

lol thats one way of doing it


Just go out and step on the bitch and if she blows just have it towed back to the stealership. And if she doesnt blow post some logs.

[mspeed3]

Just go out and step on the bitch and if she blows just have it towed back to the stealership. And if she doesnt blow post some logs.

lol .... nice

I just read on corksport site that the fuel pump remains within spec with sri and testpipe..

here: http://support.corksport.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=284

[MPS]

meh dont listen to crack sport do some logs

[loki]

meh dont listen to crack sport do some logs

He doesn't have an AP...

[mspeed3]

He doesn't have an AP...

just got ap today... cdfp internals coming in a few weeks..

but insurance for the car kicks back in next month anyways..

[Fack_Dude]

lol .... nice

I just read on corksport site that the fuel pump remains within spec with sri and testpipe..

here: http://support.corksport.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=284

Dude, Don't be nervous!!! I got over 400 whp on a stock block and no problems at all..........

[mspeed3]

Dude, Don't be nervous!!! I got over 400 whp on a stock block and no problems at all..........

thx bro.. I be trippin.. :) just excited for the summer I guess.. nothing but boost on the mind.

dangerously addictive hobby and its my first turbo car. Friends warned me this would happen!

[Fack_Dude]

You should try my car you would shit yourself....lol

[CelestSpeed3]

Did your friends also warn you to read up on this car very carefully before you started swapping parts out.

[mspeed3]

Did your friends also warn you to read up on this car very carefully before you started swapping parts out.

you're not wrong, but I mean the vendor should hold some responsibility with regards to notifying the public.. im hoping that theres nothing wrong and Im over reacting.

[CelestSpeed3]

So if I sell you a gun, and you shoot someone, its the guy who sold you the bullets fault?

[mspeed3]

what? thats a rebellious analogy.. bullets are clearly dangerous and Im sure that they're labelled as such..

anyways.. you've proved your point..

[mspeed3]

what? thats a rebellious analogy.. bullets are clearly dangerous and Im sure that they're labelled as such..

anyways.. you've proved your point..

****ing autocorrect.. ridiculous*

[CelestSpeed3]

I don't mean to come off as a dick, but people seem to have forgotten the phrase buyer beware.

For your own safety and the longevity of your vehicle think twice before buying anything. I will be more than happy to help you install anything you want to your car. But I will not be happy if I hear you are stuck on the 401 and needing a tow.

[mspeed3]

I don't mean to come off as a dick, but people seem to have forgotten the phrase buyer beware.

For your own safety and the longevity of your vehicle think twice before buying anything. I will be more than happy to help you install anything you want to your car. But I will not be happy if I hear you are stuck on the 401 and needing a tow.

I appreciate the concern... no harm taken.. lets keep our fingers crossed that nothing is wrong.. regardless, very important lesson learned.. it wont happen again. Its not something to take lightly at this point.

[rzapata]

Get some logs and let's see if all is ok.

[CelestSpeed3]

Remember most of these parts say "off road use only" to cover the vendors ass.

[mspeed3]

sounds like a plan.. as I mentioned, I just picked up the accessport today.. so I dont have any experience on the thing

cobb says for me to only run safe mode map without cdfp.. so how do you guys recommend I produce this log?

[CelestSpeed3]

I've been in this scene for a while and I've done real modifications to my cars full well knowing the risks. I'm not your average bolt-on-buck-a-roo.


If you need a walk-through of the AP send me a PM so we can meet up and I will show you. All of the info is in the AP help files, and instruction manual if you want to start reading.

[mspeed3]

I've been in this scene for a while and I've done real modifications to my cars full well knowing the risks. I'm not your average bolt-on-buck-a-roo.

If you need a walk-through of the AP send me a PM so we can meet up and I will show you. All of the info is in the AP help files, and instruction manual if you want to start reading.

Thanks dude... Ive read the manual.. however, I have no experience reviewing the logs.. and which map should I run that would best indicate whether Ive caused damage last summer.

Ill likely pm you once the insurance is back on.. and the snow is done ;)

[SomeGuy]

Uhm...isn't the point of the new fueling logic on the 2nd gens to prevent the zoom-zoom boom? Ie when they drop fuel pressure rather than continuing to try and maintain pressure but not being able to and getting lean...they just dump fuel into the engine, go stupidly rich to prevent the motor from blowing up? Not to say it isn't bad, but it's less likely to blow up the motor due to the weak fuel system...although running stupid rich is bad for other reasons.

[Elusivellama]

Uhm...isn't the point of the new fueling logic on the 2nd gens to prevent the zoom-zoom boom? Ie when they drop fuel pressure rather than continuing to try and maintain pressure but not being able to and getting lean...they just dump fuel into the engine, go stupidly rich to prevent the motor from blowing up? Not to say it isn't bad, but it's less likely to blow up the motor due to the weak fuel system...although running stupid rich is bad for other reasons.

I believe it goes something like this:

1. fuel pressure drops below 1600
2. injector pulse width is widened (ie. the amount of time that the injector is delivering fuel)
3. stock cdfp tries to keep up but fails
4. fuel pressure drops even further
5. see step 2

Abilor likened it to an emergency medical tech finding you bleeding out on the sidewalk, so he cuts open your femoral artery to help you.

[CelestSpeed3]

That's right and because you are now flowing 2x the amount of air the you would have stock because you added an intake and DP, the motor leans out because the logic doesn't account for it. The motor then leans out, lean mixture creates elevated combustion temps (see how the EGT gauge could save your ass), the high temps lower the pre-ignition (detonation) threshold of the motor, the motor detonates like a firework, equally loud but with less colours and you are lft with the same sense of childish wonder. Wow, why does it do that.

[mspeed3]

So its a bang and that's its? Its likely frying gaskets on the way there. I should see burning oil.. smoke out the tail pipe etc. Am I right?

[CelestSpeed3]

Nope, you hear a bang. Then the car spills it guts, oil and connecting rods all over the road.

[Mr Wilson]

You can read about some of the blown situations here click (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/mazdaspeed-2-3l-disi-turbo-blown-engine-resource-thread-6113/)

[fywdyl]

There are signs of it first... you will feel the car stutter when you do a WOT pull. I'm assuming you're on the stock tune and the boost levels should be below the threshold. If you are that concerned, just don't do WOT pulls until you get the FP.

Or load a safemode map if you get the AP before the FP.

[mspeed3]

There are signs of it first... you will feel the car stutter when you do a WOT pull. I'm assuming you're on the stock tune and the boost levels should be below the threshold. If you are that concerned, just don't do WOT pulls until you get the FP.

Or load a safemode map if you get the AP before the FP.

No stutter... thank god. Motor mount movement sometimes, but that's a different story.. (Still have to install inserts)

What happens exactly when she stutters? Would it throw a CEL?

[fywdyl]

No stutter... thank god. Motor mount movement sometimes, but that's a different story.. (Still have to install inserts)

What happens exactly when she stutters? Would it throw a CEL?

You'll know when it stutters. It happened to me before COBB came out w/ the safemode maps. I only had the CS SRI+TIP, but the Stg1 OTS tune was set at 17psi.

I was doing a 3rd gear pull and then at around 4500 rpm it felt like I took my foot off the pedal and then mashed it again, you will feel the car slow down quite a bit and then try to speed up, and then slow down, speed up, so on and so forth.

When I looked at the log, the fuel pressure dropped to like ~800 psi so I KNEW I needed a HPFP badly. If you haven't felt that yet then maybe it's not as bad as I've described it, but you may still be close to the threshold. You'll find out for sure once you get the AP.

Mind you, that only happened in the winter time, in the summer time it was fine.

[mspeed3]

You'll know when it stutters. It happened to me before COBB came out w/ the safemode maps. I only had the CS SRI+TIP, but the Stg1 OTS tune was set at 17psi.

I was doing a 3rd gear pull and then at around 4500 rpm it felt like I took my foot off the pedal and then mashed it again, you will feel the car slow down quite a bit and then try to speed up, and then slow down, speed up, so on and so forth.

When I looked at the log, the fuel pressure dropped to like ~800 psi so I KNEW I needed a HPFP badly. If you haven't felt that yet then maybe it's not as bad as I've described it, but you may still be close to the threshold. You'll find out for sure once you get the AP.

Mind you, that only happened in the winter time, in the summer time it was fine.


Dude, thank you.. so far the most useful response.. I dont remember this happening last summer.. so I think I should be okay. Did you cause any damage when this happened? Or is it more of a warning of a potential failure?

I got AP last night.. havents installed yet..

[fywdyl]

Dude, thank you.. so far the most useful response.. I dont remember this happening last summer.. so I think I should be okay. Did you cause any damage when this happened? Or is it more of a warning of a potential failure?

I got AP last night.. havents installed yet..

I have no idea if it caused damage or anything. I'd have to take apart the motor to find out, but since then the car is running fine. The speed's motor is pretty tough, as long as it's well maintained and the right precautions are taken, I'm sure you'll have a healthy 250whp+ for a long time.

[horto]

You'll know when it stutters. It happened to me before COBB came out w/ the safemode maps. I only had the CS SRI+TIP, but the Stg1 OTS tune was set at 17psi.

I was doing a 3rd gear pull and then at around 4500 rpm it felt like I took my foot off the pedal and then mashed it again, you will feel the car slow down quite a bit and then try to speed up, and then slow down, speed up, so on and so forth.

When I looked at the log, the fuel pressure dropped to like ~800 psi so I KNEW I needed a HPFP badly. If you haven't felt that yet then maybe it's not as bad as I've described it, but you may still be close to the threshold. You'll find out for sure once you get the AP.

Mind you, that only happened in the winter time, in the summer time it was fine.


http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg46/scaled.php?server=46&filename=p6300107.jpg&res=medium

[fywdyl]

^+1

Exactly, that's the only way to find out if your motor is gonna blow.
Prosport should make a "Danger to Manifold" gauge.

[mspeed3]

Ill take two.. just in case!

[MPS]

ur a dick and u know it


I don't mean to come off as a dick, but people seem to have forgotten the phrase buyer beware.

For your own safety and the longevity of your vehicle think twice before buying anything. I will be more than happy to help you install anything you want to your car. But I will not be happy if I hear you are stuck on the 401 and needing a tow.

[CelestSpeed3]

I've bent over backwards for people in the past trying to help them and they still don't learn.

But you tell someone off and they pay attention. Human nature I guess.

[joedemarco]

I've bent over backwards for people in the past trying to help them and they still don't learn.

But you tell someone off and they pay attention. Human nature I guess.

responses should start with "**** YOU! ...get FP replaced." This was you can tell them off and help them in the same post!!! LOL


OP: hope things are going well with the AP so far, enjoy!!

[joedemarco]

Is this what happens when you dont upgrade the fuel pump? (except to the fuel pump, not the block...or both?)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDwpuWcXzTw

[Mr Wilson]

Look Here (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f10/blown-motor-pics-4-lex-51432/)

Your motor goes boom.

[loki]

*facepalm*

[loki]

Is this what happens when you dont upgrade the fuel pump? (except to the fuel pump, not the block...or both?)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDwpuWcXzTw

That's a hyundai

[joedemarco]

That's a hyundai

I know thats a hyundai lol, im saying if you try to run upgrades without upgrading the FP...its this ultimately what is going to happen??? the car will spew its guts all over the road...

[loki]

I know thats a hyundai lol, im saying if you try to run upgrades without upgrading the FP...its this ultimately what is going to happen??? the car will spew its guts all over the road...

First of all, that was a video of a hyundai doing donuts, then a ton of camera shaking, then oil and parts everywhere.

I watched it with the sound off...

Who knows why that hyundai blew up. This topic has been discussed in one of the other threads that currently active and to quote Aitch


What he's saying is that with a downpipe and without a HPFP, you'll be able to examine the internals of your engine after they are vomited out onto the pavement.

stop asking the same question over and over.....

[joedemarco]

nevermind...I dont think your getting my point. scratch all that.

[loki]

nevermind...I dont think your getting my point. scratch all that.

No, it is you who does not seem to get the point.


Refer to this thread...

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?60984-about-to-spend-some-money-for-some-mods-some-pointers-would-be-great&p=894348&highlight=#post894348

[horto]

No, it is you who does not seem to get the point.


http://i.qkme.me/41ap.jpg

now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

[McGuyver_3]

My 2nd gen with just an intake and an ap had serious fuel cut issues at the top of 2nd and 3rd gear. I highly recomend you get a pump. I doubt you did any damage other then starve the engine of fuel

[Odin]

Dude, thank you.. so far the most useful response.. I dont remember this happening last summer.. so I think I should be okay. Did you cause any damage when this happened? Or is it more of a warning of a potential failure?

I got AP last night.. havents installed yet..

I know I'm diggin this thread out of the grave, but I'm looking at getting the corksport SRI. I was concerned about why corksport advertises it as okay to run their SRI without tune, and Cobb says a tune is required. This is what corksport wrote back to me with:

"There are a wide range of opinions out there on the internet. *Cobb says you need a tune to run an intake (theirs specifically) since the fuel trims are moved to far away from the stock operating range when it is fitted to a 2010+ model Mazdaspeed 3 which causes a check

On our intake we have the correct sized MAF housing which keeps the fuel trims within the intended operating range of the stock ECU so there is no check engine lights.

We tested our intake for months on our shop Mazdaspeed 3 before releasing it to the market. *Our goal was to keep the fuel trims with the intake within the stock range which would keep the engine performing without running lean. *One of the items we use in our MAF design was the air straightener which mirrors what the stock airbox used to keep the fuel trims within the target range Mazda intended.

With the SRi we offer installed properly you should not have any problems with the fuel trims. *

So to answer your question if you install just the intake you should be just fine."

Also just wanted to follow up on how the AP install went and if you found you were running lean? Do you have any logs that can refute what Corksport is saying?

[Elusivellama]

I know I'm diggin this thread out of the grave, but I'm looking at getting the corksport SRI. I was concerned about why corksport advertises it as okay to run their SRI without tune, and Cobb says a tune is required. This is what corksport wrote back to me with:


You already posted this here (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?64416-Why-no-tune-for-Corksport-SRI&p=968118&highlight=#post968118). The answer is simple, they want you to buy their shit so they advertise it as such. Cobb wants you to buy their shit, so they advertise it as needing a tune.

In the end, you'll need an AP. Should have bought it from Booostin.

[Odin]

You already posted this here (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?64416-Why-no-tune-for-Corksport-SRI&p=968118&highlight=#post968118). The answer is simple, they want you to buy their shit so they advertise it as such. Cobb wants you to buy their shit, so they advertise it as needing a tune.

In the end, you'll need an AP. Should have bought it from Booostin.

Yes I have, and I've got your opinion. But I don't think there's anything wrong with asking for someone else's views and/or logs. Just wanted to follow up on mspeeds logs.

You're right I should have bought Boostin's AP. It was great deal I missed on (I'm new to this and didn't know how hard it is to find an AP for less than $500!)

[fywdyl]

Here's my opinion.

You already posted this here. The answer is simple, they want you to buy their shit so they advertise it as such. Cobb wants you to buy their shit, so they advertise it as needing a tune.

In the end, you'll need an AP. Should have bought it from Booostin.

I had the CS SRI, w/o the AP, there's no way to know if the fuel pump was working properly. Then I went and got the AP with a stg1 tune and my fuel pump didn't hold up. So if you plan to go beyond just the SRI, then I/we all recommend getting the fuel pump.

[Odin]

I had the CS SRI, w/o the AP, there's no way to know if the fuel pump was working properly. Then I went and got the AP with a stg1 tune and my fuel pump didn't hold up. So if you plan to go beyond just the SRI, then I/we all recommend getting the fuel pump.

Do you think it was the stage 1 tune that pushed the fuel pump past it's limit? I think what Derrick from corksport is saying is that's it's fine without tune. Did you take a look on how the SRI held up before you went stage 1? I get that they're probably trying to sell their product just like Cobb wants to sell the AP - I don't know, just bugs me that a company that builds performance parts perhaps isn't being *entirely* truthful about the SRI. Anyway, this should be continued in my other thread.

[loki]

What's the point of adding an Sri if you're not going to tune for it?

The End

[Odin]

What's the point of adding an Sri if you're not going to tune for it?

The End

Well I agree and if I had an AP I would do it right away. I just want to find out if it's a safe mod pre-tune so I can at least hear the BPV going. The consensus seems to be that it isn't (despite what corksport says), so I won't do it. I'll save for the AP first - I agree with modding for safety. Hopefully I'll be able to pick one up used for cheaper.

[loki]

It's not that it's guaranteed to be unsafe, it's just that you have no way of knowing without monitoring the fuel pressure

[Thrizzl3]

Well I agree and if I had an AP I would do it right away. I just want to find out if it's a safe mod pre-tune so I can at least hear the BPV going. The consensus seems to be that it isn't (despite what corksport says), so I won't do it. I'll save for the AP first - I agree with modding for safety. Hopefully I'll be able to pick one up used for cheaper.

why not save for AP AND upgraded HPFP/internals

[Odin]

why not save for AP AND upgraded HPFP/internals

Well, I don't know how many of you are married but it's much easier for me to do this in small steps......

Is there a thread on how to convince your wife/girlfriend to be on-board with buying car parts?

[Thrizzl3]

Well, I don't know how many of you are married but it's much easier for me to do this in small steps......

Is there a thread on how to convince your wife/girlfriend to be on-board with buying car parts?

yes...keep it a secret lol...

[boyracer]

yes...keep it a secret lol...

lol, That's what I did..... and will continue doing

[Fack_Dude]

Hey.bro. You.bought the wrong car. Take my advise sell the car and get yourself a minivan and kids.

[Booostin]

In the end, you'll need an AP. Should have bought it from Booostin.


Here's my opinion.

You already posted this here. The answer is simple, they want you to buy their shit so they advertise it as such. Cobb wants you to buy their shit, so they advertise it as needing a tune.

In the end, you'll need an AP. Should have bought it from Booostin.


I don't want any part of this lol

[Turok]

Well, I don't know how many of you are married but it's much easier for me to do this in small steps......

Is there a thread on how to convince your wife/girlfriend to be on-board with buying car parts?

I'm not married, but my gf and I have a baby on the way and even before the baby happened I didn't need to justify buying any of my car parts. Guess your not wearing the boots ;)

I recommend a second job to make money for your mods.. or something or just save.

Tell her these mods are fuel saving mods lmao :)

[2zoom]

yes...keep it a secret lol...
:getout....lol. Don't give away our secret Phil.

But to be serious get you self a HPFP and AP then mod from there. It will put you mind at ease regarding fuel pressure.

[Elusivellama]

No, tell her that they're safety mods. Making the car safe from zombies.

[loki]

or just man the **** up and tell her you're buying parts. honesty is the best policy.

my wife can list every part added to my speed3


edit: should have bought a gen1 :gone

[Turok]

or just man the **** up and tell her you're buying parts. honesty is the best policy.

my wife can list every part added to my speed3


edit: should have bought a gen1 :gone

Totally agree my gf knows what I buy as well

[rzapata]

Honesty indeed. If you kept it secret, I'm sure they will notice it when somehow the car looked/sounded different. :chuckle

[Booostin]

I am honest but she still thinks I am a retard for buying mods.

[Thrizzl3]

if your gf/wife doesn't care..you're golden. aside from a few people haha

[rzapata]

I am honest but she still thinks I am a retard for buying mods.

Hahaha same here! :chuckle

[horto]

I am honest but she still thinks I am a retard for buying mods.

my mods are cheaper than her purses...

she says, if it makes you happy... then she supports it

[Odin]

my mods are cheaper than her purses...

Truth!

[Elusivellama]

my mods are cheaper than her purses...

she says, if it makes you happy... then she supports it


Next time say that she's also modding. A purse is a mod too. So are shoes.

BTW, how much is a purse that it costs more than a car mod...?

[fywdyl]

Next time say that she's also modding. A purse is a mod too. So are shoes.

BTW, how much is a purse that it costs more than a car mod...?

A "cheap" one is ~$400-$500, and then the sky's the limit for expensive ones. (in the thousands)

Back on topic:

When I had pump issues, it was because of the tune. However, the tune did make the car drive much smoother (aside from the pressure drop). In conclusion, yes you can run the SRI without a tune, but you will not gain much benefit from it, and it'll just be a sound mod at that point.

Best bang for buck would def be the AP if you're serious about modding.

[Booostin]

Mods can be in the thousands and usually are lol... purse is nothing

[loki]

Next time say that she's also modding. A purse is a mod too. So are shoes.

BTW, how much is a purse that it costs more than a car mod...?

you know how much a car mod is, so it's more than that

lol


I don't get where this conversation has gone. haha